1 38 39 40 41 42 43 Previous Next 1,716 Replies Latest reply on Dec 18, 2012 11:37 AM by Victoria Bampton LR Queen Go to original post
      • 1,560. Re: Lightroom 4 is slow
        trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

        bmphotography wrote:

         

        I expressed an opinion and for this you feel the need to patronise me? Thats quite unfair and has escalated this conversation out of the realm of good detetctivce work and into sabre-rattling. Nothing in my post should have illicited that. In actual fact youasked me if I was 'game to try x,y,z'. I have spent a lot of time and money on this, Adobe does not pay me either.

        This is also one of the problems with trying to resolve "complicated" technology issues via forum postings......no real-time ability to interact. I stated in another post here that I would love to get my hands a badly behaving system and offered to travel to any New Jersey forum member's home or business office to assist.....but not one taker to date!

         

        My point was that I've provided "suggestions" to numerous LR forum posters and in many cases get a similar "rebuff" of "That can't be the cause, "I don't have the time or patience, or simply NO REPLY. I apologize if you felt I was patronizing, as that was and is not my intent.

        bmphotography wrote:

         

         

        I have made a vanilla installation of Win7, its easier than reinstalling steam  - no difference. I also used vanilla installations of MacOS 10.6.8 and 10.8.2 that I use as test environments (its easier to access these). No Dice.

         

        I have 3 seperate hardware platforms running 2 seperate OSes of different iterations the bug exists in all environments. Its not removing steam, its putting it back thats the issue and on balance, in my opinion this was looking at the wrong tree. focussing on hardware behaviour, in particluar thread priority and scaling is a more productive use of time.

         

         

        I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "vanilla installation of Win 7, did you actually try a "fresh install" using LR4.3 RC, with a "new" catalog, and newly imported images for testing on a Win 7 system without Steam installed? The devil is in the details and again we have no realtime way of communicating, especially if you live in Queensland, Australia (+15 Hr. ET). There is a known issue with some Mac platforms concerning core and thread utilization and I don't think LR4.3 RC fixes it, so I'd stay focused on Win 7 for now. This is the i7-860, 12GB system I'm using with no major issues HP Pavilion Elite HPE-150t CTO. It uses a MS-7613 (Iona-GL8E) motherboard manufactured by Gigabyte.

         

        We were hit pretty bad by Hurricane Sandy in the NJ/NY shore areas. It's the worst storm that I've seen in 66 years living in NJ. I live three miles from Belmar, NJ, but on the 2nd highest point on the Eastern Seaboard so no flooding.  Here are some before/after aerial shots of New York and New Jersey areas hit by Hurricane Sandy. Mouse-over the images to see Before and After views.

         

        http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/news/weeklynews/nov12/ngs-sandy-imagery.html

         

        Please feel free to send me a PM if you would like to continue troubleshooting further via personal email. I'm now retired and available most anytime during the day (ET).

        • 1,561. Re: Experiencing performance related issues in Lightroom 4.x
          dwterry Level 1

          To try to speed my workflow, one thing I will do if I copy/sync settings across a lot of images, I will jump back to Library mode click the option to generate the previews (all of the images that were just synced are still selected, so it will update previews on all of those images).  LR gets around to it on its own, eventually, but this way I can sort of "batch" the change and the preview update together and it has less impact on me as I return back to develop mode to continue my work.

           

          One request for the LR developers:  Make this option (of rebuilding the previews) available on the right-click pop-up menu even while in Develop mode. That would save me from having to switch back and forth from Develop to Library and back.

          • 1,562. Re: Experiencing performance related issues in Lightroom 4.x
            trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            davepinminn wrote:

             

            I have NO DOUBT there are a number of people experiencing problems with LR4, but I suspect it's going to get increasingly difficult to interest Adobe in the severity...

             

            Last night, at one of the Lightroom User group meetings I asked the following question:  "For those of you that are using LR4, who previously used an earlier version of Lightroom, RAISE YOUR HAND IF YOU'RE PERCEIVING ANY DECREASE IN PERFORMANCE WITH LR4."

             

            The room contained approximately 50 Lightroom users, running both Windows and various Macs.  Of this ENTIRE group, only TWO people raised their hands.  A further inquiry on my part STILL elicited no additional users who admitted to having performance issues.

             

            This pretty much confirms the analysis I did of the 'Views' versus 'Replies' for this post:

             

            http://forums.adobe.com/message/4801433#4801433

             

            EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: the actual number of LR users with significant performance issues is probably no more than 1.7% to 3.3%.

             

            Two people raising there hands in a group of 50 LR users represents 4.0% for this small but very valid sampling group. At all the user group meetings I've attended (not specifcally Adobe's) the highest turnout were always the "complainers" and the "praiser," strongly indicating there aren't that many people (by-the-numbers) with major LR4 issues.

            • 1,563. Re: Experiencing performance related issues in Lightroom 4.x
              andreas603 Level 1

              dwterry- thanks...thats essentially what I do but I like the idea of switching back while still highlighted... of course now I'll have a re-draw task running for a long time slowing down the rest of my workflow even more..... It certainly does seem logical that a change to the RAW image requres a refresh of the currently cached JPEG preview.

               

              Doing some more testing, I'm noticing that in fact my jpeg preview redraw in Lib takes more like 7-8 seconds..whereas the redraw of the RAW file in Dev Mod takes 1-2 seconds after I modify it.

               

              If anyone has time, would be curious to know what your times are in both Lib and Dev to re-draw/re-fresh a modifed image.

              • 1,564. Re: Experiencing performance related issues in Lightroom 4.x
                DavePinMinn Level 1

                trshaner, I think the one area I disagree with you is that in my mind 1.7% is a huge number.  I don't know whether every user that admits to problems represents 10 or 100 or 1000 others that don't know they've got issues (they just think the software is lousy and slow), don't use it in a way that exposes the problems (AT THIS TIME), or are disgruntled and have moved to other software, but to me it's still a significant number of unhappy customers. 

                 

                Admittedly, if it IS 2%, I can see where Adobe would prefer that those people go away, find something else, and don't ever complain.  BUT, in this day of widespread communications, a single unhappy user can tell a LOT of other people and possibly influence purchasing decisions... 

                 

                I know that in the initial stages I was here relating my performance issues with LR4, but after seeing all the other replies, measurebating, and discussion, I became read-only and simply put up with the performance 'cause the 800 pound gorilla isn't going to be rushed to fix problems.  Hopefully, as version upon version gets released, eventually the vast majority of issues will be ameliorated enough that most users are happy, but I suspect it'll mostly be that memories of how LR3.6 ran will fade, we'll largely get used to the poorer performance, we'll throw hardware at the problem to hopefully help (I can see sales of SSDs and faster CPUs spiking for LR users), or just give up and assume this is as good as it's going to get... 

                 

                BUT, when the time comes to drop LR5, I suspect there'll be a lot more skeptical users and a lot fewer people willing to plunk down a credit card on day one.

                • 1,565. Re: Lightroom 4 is slow
                  bmphotography Level 1

                  Interesting, thanks.

                   

                  Vanilla = fresh, untainted, plain. New everything for LR, completely from scratch.

                   

                  I am concentrating on win7 for the sake of this exercise.

                   

                  Take a look at this thread, The poster has addressed my specific issue at the end. http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1165920

                   

                   

                  That only 3-4% are experiencing problems is encouraging but I do agree with another poster, I think thats relatively high.

                  B

                  • 1,566. Re: Experiencing performance related issues in Lightroom 4.x
                    bmphotography Level 1

                    @andreas. No its not normal. Not sure what you have to lose by trying RC3. Just install in a different directory. Also have you tried purging your cache and increasing its size say to about 20 - 50 GB?

                    • 1,567. Re: Lightroom 4 is slow
                      trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      bmphotography wrote:

                       

                      Interesting, thanks.

                       

                      Take a look at this thread, The poster has addressed my specific issue at the end. http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1165920

                       

                       

                      So the consensus is a six-core processor is beyond the point of diminishing return concerning core utilization, and an overclocked quad-core probably will provide better performance. Concerning hyper-threading my i7-860 quad-core system tests show only a small decrease in Export performance with hyper-threading enabled. With hyper-threading disabled slider operation becomes sluggish in the Develop module during both Imports and Exports, but otherwise fairly normal when not doing Import/Exports. From my experience and LR usage I have to disagree concerning the value of hyper-threading.

                       

                      If you don't need to do any work inside LR during Import/Export, then hyper-threading is probably not needed. Of course there's no guarantee that a future LR update may run better on systems with hyper-threading.

                       

                      Message was edited by: trshaner Added hyper-threading caveat.

                      • 1,568. Re: Experiencing performance related issues in Lightroom 4.x
                        trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        davepinminn wrote:

                         

                        trshaner, I think the one area I disagree with you is that in my mind 1.7% is a huge number.  I don't know whether every user that admits to problems represents 10 or 100 or 1000 others that don't know they've got issues (they just think the software is lousy and slow), don't use it in a way that exposes the problems (AT THIS TIME), or are disgruntled and have moved to other software, but to me it's still a significant number of unhappy customers. 

                         

                        Admittedly, if it IS 2%, I can see where Adobe would prefer that those people go away, find something else, and don't ever complain.  BUT, in this day of widespread communications, a single unhappy user can tell a LOT of other people and possibly influence purchasing decisions... 

                         

                         

                        If you go to the post I linked to you will see I said the following concerning the small percentage of LR users with serious performance issue, so in fact I do agree with you.

                         

                        "From a LR end-user perspective this is still totally unacceptable, since in most cases LR4 is virtually unusable. If the above stats are anywhere near accurate don’t expect Adobe to “throw the kitchen sink” at finding and correcting the code in LR4 that is at the root of these performance issues. We stand a better chance of doing that here on an individual basis. Putting Titanium in a Swiss Army Knife because some customers are breaking the blades is bad product management. As "unacceptable" as that may seem it is the reality of business economics."

                        • 1,569. Re: Lightroom 4 is slow
                          bmphotography Level 1

                          trshner: Not quite, unfortunately you are seeing this outside the context of the other conversations we were having which was based on a ‘guess’ as to whether or not a new 2011 hexacore would be any use. The thread in question was relating to the purchase of a new 2011 basex six core. The only other person who has contributed to that forum that has a 6 core is reporting no problems and it’s a gulftown chip (980X), not SB-E/2011.

                           

                          15bit is really looking at his own, current tech and extrapolating from that, I believe that in there somewhere he did say that he couldnt be sure about HT perormance. Certainly on my box, I see no real improvement with HT on or off. The bit at the end of that post was stuff I added that deonstrated that with greater load (i.e. shadow/highlight <>0) then less threads appear to being used.

                           

                          His experiment showed little value in a stock 6 core over a an OC 4 core BUT he didnt address HT. He was addressing new tech, I have no doubt that your 860 based platform executes and threads better. So its not quite as simple as saying 6>4. Whats clear from your post and from the other guy in FM is that newer, hot of the press platforms appear to be less capable with LR4.

                           

                          As to wether or not a 6-core SB-E set up will fix the very specific problem I have set out (i.e. 2 second noise slider lag with shadow/highlight or clarity <> 0 on a large MP file), no one i know can answer that because no one has the nerve to gamble 1k on it, especially when the odds are not looking so favourable. I know 2011 is a different platform but you can see how threads like that are going to make people cautious.

                           

                          What we are getting at here, which goes back to my original post and is underlined by your observations, is just how platform specific this is.

                           

                          My particular crusade is to find out which new platforms, if any, do not behave like this.

                          • 1,570. Re: Experiencing performance related issues in Lightroom 4.x
                            bob frost Level 3

                            From: "bmphotography

                            As to wether or not a 6-core SB-E set up will fix the very specific

                            problem I have set out (i.e. 2 second noise slider lag with

                            shadow/highlight or clarity <> 0 on a large MP file), no one i know can

                            answer that because no one has the nerve to gamble 1k on it, especially

                            when the odds are not looking so favourable. I know 2011 is a different

                            platform but you can see how threads like that are going to make people

                            cautious.

                             

                            Well, I have the SandyBridge 6 core i73930K, which is not very different

                            from the new 3970x, and it works fine on LR4. I usually run with HT off,

                            since I've found no obvious advantage in having it on, and it saves a lot of

                            power and lowers the temp by several degrees, when it's OFF.

                             

                            All 6 cores are used and all 6 reach 100% during part of each rendering

                            cycle. Average use is about 47% during rendering of D800 files.

                             

                            No slider problems.

                             

                            Rendering 100 D800 nefs can take between 7 and 20 minutes, depending on what

                            editing I have done. Applying the three worst edits (luminance noise, lens

                            profiles, and chromatic aberration) on top of normal edits, exposure etc,

                            clarity, a gradient and some spots, to all the 100 files, pushes it to the

                            20 minutes.

                             

                            Bob Frost

                            • 1,571. Re: Experiencing performance related issues in Lightroom 4.x
                              bmphotography Level 1

                              Bob, thanks. I was going to hit you up about your machine.

                               

                              Would you please be so kind to confirm or deny wether my specific scenario plays out on your machine or not? Just take a big RAW, with no other adjustments except +1 on shadow or highlight or both, can you please describe your experience with the lag on the Noise sliders (Detail and Luminance), <0.5 seconds? instantaneous? near-instantaneous etc. You may need to move them to extremes to clearly see a difference.

                               

                               

                              Rendering is much less of an issue for me than fluid slider functionality.

                               

                               

                              Thanks very much in advance...

                               

                              Ben

                              • 1,572. Re: Experiencing performance related issues in Lightroom 4.x
                                bob frost Level 3

                                From: "bmphotography

                                Would you please be so kind to confirm or deny wether my specific scenario

                                plays out on your machine or not? Just take a big RAW, with no other

                                adjustments except +1 on shadow or highlight or both, can you please

                                describe your experience with the lag on the Noise sliders (Detail and

                                Luminance), <0.5 seconds? instantaneous? near-instantaneous etc. You may

                                need to move them to extremes to clearly see a difference.

                                 

                                 

                                Since you asked so nicely

                                 

                                Using 4.3RC, I can see a difference in luminance slider results depending on

                                whether highlights is +1 (or any other value than 0), but not as extreme as

                                yours. What I see is that with Highlights at 0, the image changes

                                continuously as I move the luminance slider without stopping from one end to

                                the other. With Highlights at +1 or above, the image doesn't seem to change

                                continously, but only when I stop moving the slider, but it is then pretty

                                near instantaneous - I'd be hard put to time the lag.

                                 

                                I suspect that what is happening here, is that the background recalculation

                                of edits has been suspended while the slider is being moved so that the

                                movement of the slider is not impeded. Recalculation happens after the

                                slider has been moved, causing the lag in image appearance. I seem to

                                remember someone saying that this had been done in response to many

                                complaints that sliders were not moving properly.

                                 

                                I don't think this is just a problem with Highlights; I can see the same

                                effect with exposure, but I suspect the magnitude of the effect depends on

                                the amount of recalculation that has to be done. Highlights may need much

                                more than exposure - just guessing.

                                 

                                The amount of the lag will presumably depend on the quantity of edit

                                recalculation and the speed of your computer. Mine is quite fast, but even

                                with this machine I did notice yesterday during some testing that, after

                                piling on a load of different edits - all the worst,  when I tried spotting,

                                the movement of the spot on the screen was becoming jerky.

                                 

                                Bob Frost

                                • 1,573. Re: Experiencing performance related issues in Lightroom 4.x
                                  bmphotography Level 1

                                  Having a recalculation done on release may work if it was instant. Basically the way I used to work on 3.6 was based on the instructions for Noise Ninja:

                                   

                                  I locate an area that is out of focus, zoom in to 100-200% depending on how close you are, put both Luminance and detail to 100%, the image should be full of artefact depending on the noise content. I then reduce the detail slider until all of the artefact has just disappeared. Then I move to a detail rich, infocus area. I drop the Luminance slider to zero (i.e. max noise again) and I gradually increase it until I get a good balance between noise and detail. This basically smooths out the noise and reduces the 'clumpiness' of it making it much more tolerant to sharpening and other heavy PS work.

                                   

                                  The key is in finding that balance point, I would kind of go forwards and backwards over it a few times until I was happy, obviously laggy 2 second recalcs make it impossible to make meaningful visual comparisons. Immediate relalculation when the slider is released might work if I got close and used the arrow buttons to get to the balance point.

                                   

                                  Do you think thats tenable?

                                   

                                  Thanks heaps!

                                  Ben

                                  • 1,574. Re: Experiencing performance related issues in Lightroom 4.x
                                    andreas603 Level 1

                                    Ill  have some time over weekend to give it a try...but if this is not normal, when should a re-cache occur after an adjustment?  Should it happen in real time or does LR decide to refresh the preview image on a certain interval?

                                     

                                    I'll go ahead and purge preview..but a question....prob should know this already but can't remember....the only preview cache I'm aware of is the RAW cache..is there a Lib preview cache too?  where?

                                     

                                    Really would like to know if anyone else is having this issue....thx

                                    • 1,575. Re: Experiencing performance related issues in Lightroom 4.x
                                      Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      Unfortunately the behavior you describe is normal and unavoidable as some others already noted.

                                      Ill  have some time over weekend to give it a try...but if this is not normal, when should a re-cache occur after an adjustment?  Should it happen in real time or does LR decide to refresh the preview image on a certain interval?

                                      It will create a standard preview after the adjustment for display in Library even if you had a 1:1 preview before. It won't automatrically make another 1:1 preview except if you specifically ask for it by hitting the menu item or by zooming 1:1 in the Library preview. Another situation that sometimes occurs is when the standard preview is not large enough for your display even zoomed out. Then it will make another 1:1 preview. Unfortunately the largest standard preview size is still quite small compared to the gigantic screens and retina displays a lot of people work with so that creates a major feeling of slowness if you work on a large display because just stepping through images will trigger preview generation. I'd wish the maximum size for standard previews were much larger so this would be less of an issue.

                                       

                                      I rarely make 1:1 previews for this reason as to me it is a waste of time as the way I work, I go into Develop all the time when going through images from a shoot. The only real use case for 1:1 previews is if you have a very linear workflow. Basically you import, create 1:1 previews, go through the images and cull them with flags (pick/discard) based on critical sharpness (zoom 1:1 and back, which will be fast because of the 1:1 previews), then do another round based on aesthetics  and finally end up with a new collection of keepers that is only a fraction of what you started with. Only then do you start going into develop for improving the images. This workflow is what Lightroom appears to be designed around. Doesn't work for me but I know people that do it this way and are very happy with it.

                                      I'll go ahead and purge preview..but a question....prob should know this already but can't remember....the only preview cache I'm aware of is the RAW cache..is there a Lib preview cache too?  where?

                                      The raw cache has nothing to do with the previews used in Library. The preview jpegs are stored in a file that lives alongside your catalog file and will have a name that ends in "Previews.lrdata". This is a folder full of jpeg previews and a database file that stores the location of the previews.

                                      • 1,576. Re: Experiencing performance related issues in Lightroom 4.x
                                        Kato75 Level 1

                                        LR 4 crash all the time adding photos to collection, LR 3 does not.

                                        Win 7 64bit and 16GB ram and intel i7 4ghz.

                                        • 1,577. Re: Lightroom 4 is slow
                                          A C G Level 1

                                          About ten days ago I wrote saying I was learning to use an alternative. This is not to encourage people to migrate from LR if it is working well for them.

                                           

                                          They would be silly to do so. But as an alternative to knocking the proverbial head against the proverbial brick wall this may be a better way forward. However I do say 'may' and not 'will'.

                                           

                                          Three folders of shots processed by my new software. All from a GH2.

                                           

                                          A conventional one:-

                                          http://www.tonygamble.org/Embroidery%202012/index.htm

                                           

                                          A quirky one with a £15 lens:-

                                          http://www.tonygamble.org/Autumn_Leaves_Berries_2012/index.htm

                                           

                                          A mix including some fairly high ASA ones:-

                                          http://www.tonygamble.org/Sound_of_Mus_Prod_wk_backstage/index.htm

                                           

                                          If you think they are rubbish then read no further.

                                           

                                          What was satisfying is that such a high percentage were useable with next to no tweaking. In other words using the base algorithms of the program.

                                           

                                          My email is in my profile if you are interested. Do not PM here as I rarely have the need to look in as I no longer use LR.

                                           

                                          Tony

                                          • 1,578. Re: Lightroom 4 is slow
                                            areohbee Level 5

                                            A C G wrote:

                                             

                                            About ten days ago I wrote saying I was learning to use an alternative.

                                             

                                            Three folders of shots processed by my new software.

                                             

                                            You tease! - I think it's time you came clean and revealed your mysterious tool... .

                                             

                                            Rob

                                            • 1,579. Re: Lightroom 4 is slow
                                              bmphotography Level 1

                                              So Tony, what you are saying is that the amount of processing you did was virtually nun?

                                               

                                               

                                               

                                              I reckon I know what it is....

                                              • 1,580. Re: Experiencing performance related issues in Lightroom 4.x
                                                Keith_Reeder Level 4

                                                Some excellent investigative work here into Lr's use of multithreading, which also leads to a comclusion that if you want to see an immediate performance improvement, do your NR as late as possible in your workflow...

                                                • 1,581. Re: Lightroom 4 is slow
                                                  Keith_Reeder Level 4

                                                  A C G wrote:

                                                   

                                                  About ten days ago I wrote saying I was learning to use an alternative.

                                                   

                                                  AfterShot Pro, judging by the poor white balance and all the blown highlights, both of which failings ASP excels at.

                                                  • 1,582. Re: Lightroom 4 is slow
                                                    trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                    A C G wrote:

                                                     

                                                    About ten days ago I wrote saying I was learning to use an alternative. This is not to encourage people to migrate from LR if it is working well for them.

                                                     

                                                    ......

                                                     

                                                    What was satisfying is that such a high percentage were useable with next to no tweaking. In other words using the base algorithms of the program.

                                                     

                                                    Tony

                                                     

                                                    The linked images look very similar to the JPEG output from my Canon DSLRs, and yes I mean with next to no tweaking (i.e. Exposure only).  I mean no offense and certainly agree the images Tony posted work very well for web viewing. Shooting JPEG is an even simpler alternative if your objective is to "minimize" post-processing, especially for work that is destined primarily for the Web or small prints.

                                                     

                                                    Perhaps we should all take a little harder look at Tony's example and the suggestion that for many purposes shooting JPEG or Raw+JPEG might make more sense. With in-camera noise-reduction applied to JPEG images you can usually leave LR's NR set to 0, which will greatly increase LR4's performance.

                                                     

                                                    Below is an image shot using a Canon 5D MKII at ISO 400, Raw+JPEG, Camera Standard settings, and sRGB profile.

                                                     

                                                    Raw versus JPEG.jpg

                                                    Exposure +.5, 20, -40, +40, +15, -15 Blacks          Exposure +.5 (all others at 0)

                                                     

                                                    I'm using a custom ColorChecker Passport profile with the raw image, so close to perfect color balance. At 1:1 view the JPEG is slightly less sharp and lower in noise than the processed raw image, but certainly more than acceptable for most purposes.

                                                     

                                                    With the JPEG image adjusted using LR settings Exposure +.66, 0, -35, +35, +12, -18 Blacks, Vibrance 25, Sharpening 50, .8, 35, 0 it looks virtually identical to the processed raw image.

                                                     

                                                    The "side-benefit" of shooting JPEG is that you now get to use all of those fancy picture styles, shooting modes, creative settings, dynamic range extenders, high ISO noise reduction, etc. that only work with JPEG images. And by shooting Raw + JPEG you can "maximize" creative usage of your images pronto!

                                                     

                                                    Cheers,

                                                     

                                                    Todd

                                                    • 1,583. Re: Lightroom 4 is slow
                                                      uphotography Level 1

                                                      trshaner wrote:

                                                       

                                                      ...

                                                       

                                                      The "side-benefit" of shooting JPEG is that you now get to use all of those fancy picture styles, shooting modes, creative settings, dynamic range extenders, high ISO noise reduction, etc. that only work with JPEG images. And by shooting Raw + JPEG you can "maximize" creative usage of your images pronto!

                                                       

                                                      Cheers,

                                                       

                                                      Todd

                                                       

                                                      Todd,

                                                       

                                                      So, basically, what  do you suggest would be the new use of Lightroom 4? Catalogue your photos? Design Blurb books? Make slideshows?

                                                       

                                                      I understand that many photographers do "as-is" photography where the white balance is set to resemble the real color temperature. But I don't like the idea of my cameras deciding when my highlights need to be blown or when I need more details in the shadows or limiting me to shoot over 200 ISO only or even worse, doing the sharpening for me without really pondering what the content of the image is.

                                                      By doing so, we can also stop using Lightroom altogether and start using Bridge alone with an occasional trip to PS, any of the free movie makers for our slideshows (WindowsMovie Maker is definitely better than LR regarding this and it is free and I have my own way to do galleries not involving the web gallery. (An area that I wished Adobe would have put more emphasis on, but that is just personal preference)

                                                       

                                                      I base my work on creativity, part of which happens during the session and part during the postprocessing. I need to have as much control over my images as possible so I need to shoot RAW (most of the time).

                                                       

                                                      Many of the images I have created for my clients would have not been possible had I used Jpeg.

                                                       

                                                      _MG_6190-Edit.jpg

                                                      _MG_5653.jpg

                                                      _MG_6951-Edit-01.jpg

                                                      I do agree that for web usage and being carefull and for a given sector in photography (less demanding on "artistic" view -like sport photography or journalism), it won't make a big deal but that is not the main target of my images. They are meant to be printed and many are enlarged quite a bit. I hope this doesn't end up in another estimation saying than only 4% of the photographers need to shoot in RAW so we can also disregard this 4% the same way Adobe "should" disregard the "4%" that have problems with LR. Following this train of thinking in the future we won't need our cameras to shoot RAW and film would have been extinct a long time ago. This approach only leads to attract consumers and not professionals and last time I check Lightroom is sold as a tool for professional photographers (or at least capable of satisfying the professional photographer's needs)

                                                       

                                                      I am one of the users with an extreme case of persistent Lightroomitis and recently installed LR 4.3 hoping for a . I haven't experienced the problems I had before BUT I haven't worked with it for sessions longer than 20-30 mins (which is when LR seems to start getting really unstable).

                                                       

                                                      I have had a couple of occasions where LR doesn't start (starts opening and never makes it, launching it again will sucessfully open it) and only once I saw the discouraging black rectangles. I say discouraging because that is one of the first symptoms that it will show the problems again. I actually have a long editing session today and tomorrow and this will be my real test on whether my problems got solved or not with the last update. Fingers crossed.

                                                      • 1,584. Re: Lightroom 4 is slow
                                                        trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                        uphotography wrote:

                                                         


                                                        Todd,

                                                         

                                                        So, basically, what  do you suggest would be the new use of Lightroom 4? Catalogue your photos? Design Blurb books? Make slideshows?

                                                         

                                                        This was strictly a suggestion for "minimizing post processing" work in LR. I'm not saying anyone should stop shooting raw files.

                                                         

                                                        I sure you could think of many benefits of shooting raw + JPEG if you were opened minded. Give it a try.

                                                        • 1,585. Re: Lightroom 4 is slow
                                                          uphotography Level 1

                                                          trshaner wrote:

                                                           

                                                          uphotography wrote:

                                                           


                                                          Todd,

                                                           

                                                          So, basically, what  do you suggest would be the new use of Lightroom 4? Catalogue your photos? Design Blurb books? Make slideshows?

                                                           

                                                          This was strictly a suggestion for "minimizing post processing" work in LR. I'm not saying anyone should stop shooting raw files.

                                                           

                                                          I sure you could think of many benefits of shooting raw + JPEG if you were opened minded. Give it a try.

                                                          I started shooting RAW + Jpeg. It didn't fit my workflow/work method. The only time where it might be useful to me is when shooting a wedding where I need to have a slideshow ready to play during the reception.

                                                           

                                                          There are situations where I shoot just jpeg and that is when I am "happy" with what I'm getting and it is mainly limited to photos made to have a "record" or proof of being there.

                                                           

                                                          If the way to be open minded is to shoot jpeg (or jpeg+raw) then I am not. Funny enough I thought that to be an artist you had to be very open minded and creative. Well, I just found out I am not because I only shoot RAW when trying to create.

                                                           

                                                          IMG_4542-Edit_01.jpg

                                                          I am not ready to discuss LR 4.3 because I haven't used it long enough as to find whether it keeps the same problems or not. It is exporting faster and it is a bit more smooth using the sliders but that is the case after using it for very short sessions (<20 mins) and the worse started to show on previous versions after 20 mins. That being said, it will keep bothering me when the suggestions made to "improve" our situation is to sacrifice quality and our final product. It is not the solution. It won't be the solution and it cannot be the solution to do so.

                                                           

                                                          I will use the auto industry analogy one more time because people seem to have a "selective" thinking when it comes to the same problem. (Sometimes it is ok and sometimes it is not, depending on who is affected and who is the "affecter"). Imagine you buy a ferrari and then you find out that the car would make some weird noises and sometimes even blow up a tire or two if going past 100km/hr. Would you accept as a solution (to improve your situation) a suggestion of simply driving your ferrari below 100km/hr all the time? I didn't think so. So why do I have to loose one of the big advantages of Lightroom 4 which is a great 2012PV (or for what is worth, not take proper advantage of it) because of shooting Jpeg?

                                                           

                                                          Yes, it will make your processing shorter only if you are after getting the image that was on the screen of your camera. But the shortest way between the moment and the image in your head (your vision) is RAW. Otherwise we are just monkeys pressing shutters where the monkey with the biggest toys win.

                                                          • 1,586. Re: Lightroom 4 is slow
                                                            bmphotography Level 1

                                                            I completely agree with pretty much everything Uphoto has said here. Quite apart from that, the assertion that we must change our workflow and even creative style in order to accomodate the shortcomings of Lightroom completely defeats the purpose.

                                                             

                                                            Picture style is nor an answer for me at all, commercial photographers have there own style and consistency is across a delivered set is critical. I cant mix up picture style with my own style and I cant go back undo picture style to impose my own style upon a jpg because its baked. "yeah sorry the tonality jumps about a bit on your wedding but Lightroom is really hard to use right now' just doesnt cut it with the people that pay me > $4k to shoot a wedding. Besides, DPP can retrospectively apply any picture style to any RAW you shoot which makes RAW + JPG a waste of space. Post work, look and feel are a fact of life these days - its not just about composition anymore. A shot needs tpo be fully finished and whilst we do all we can in camera, many of us have a brand that is based on what we do with that shot as a 'canvas'.

                                                             

                                                            I currently have some $30k+ in equipment, why would I do that to have > half of the information thrown away for the sake of a $200 peic of software. I do my own NR, I'm better at it than the camera. If I need more DR in a shot, I will get it at the time with muli exposure or tone-map later.

                                                             

                                                            To me this conversation is reminiscent of all of the people that cried 'user error, get over it' when the MkIII AF issue blew up.

                                                             

                                                            The image below was taken two stops under, I saw it happen while I was getting some gear out of the bag, just garabbed and shot. in JPG it would not have been recoverable

                                                            212_IMG_7830sm.jpg

                                                             

                                                            This image uses extreme localised NR and highlight recovery that would not have been possible with jpg:

                                                             

                                                            207-4M2H0622 hdr fin.JPG

                                                            • 1,587. Re: Lightroom 4 is slow
                                                              rpavich1234 Level 1

                                                              I hate to beat a dead horse but the last two posters hit the nail squarely on the head; homerun, bingo...hey-o!

                                                               

                                                              This is the crux of it.

                                                              • 1,588. Re: Lightroom 4 is slow
                                                                trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                I think we all agree that for the pro photographer making a living creating fine-art quality images, raw is the fastest way to get there. Of course you still may find "other uses" for shooting raw + JPEG as uphotography outlined.

                                                                 

                                                                My original reply here was to provide an alternative (JPEG or raw + JPEG) to A C G concerning moving to another raw processor (AftershotPro?) that appeared to have less capability than LR4. Many LR users in this forum are NOT fine art professional photographers and maybe even just rank amateur hobbyists on a very limited budget. For users in this group with LR4 performance issues, shooting raw + JPEG may provide a way to work more productively in LR until they obtain a faster system and/or Adobe resolves some of these issues.

                                                                • 1,589. Re: Lightroom 4 is slow
                                                                  bmphotography Level 1

                                                                  Todd, thanks for clarifying. I had made an unfounded and obviously incorrect assumption that the demograhic of this forum was actually the other way round.

                                                                   

                                                                  Ben

                                                                  • 1,590. Re: Lightroom 4 is slow
                                                                    areohbee Level 5

                                                                    It's a common cause for conflict in these forums:

                                                                     

                                                                    Users with troubles are directing their feedback to Adobe, but Adobe doesn't respond, but other users do: with brain-storming ideas and work-around suggestions, which are not intended to minimize original posters plight, or dilute, or whatever - but the suggestions often serve to further aggravate original posters or their like-minded brethren/sistren, since what they really want is a native solution from Adobe - not some hair-brained scheme/plugin... .

                                                                     

                                                                    In my opinion, Lightroom has a long list of short-comings (as well as "long-going" strengths, so to speak). Best we can do is let Adobe know about them, and deal/cope in the mean time...

                                                                     

                                                                    Just an observation - my .02...

                                                                     

                                                                    Cheers,

                                                                    Rob

                                                                    • 1,591. Re: Lightroom 4 is slow
                                                                      Another Photographer Level 1

                                                                      bob frost wrote:

                                                                       

                                                                      From: "andreas603

                                                                      I knew someone would talk about DNG.  Not a practical option for many of

                                                                      us

                                                                       

                                                                      Just curious - why isn't it practical?

                                                                       

                                                                      bob Frost

                                                                       

                                                                      Bob Frost--is that a serious question?  You think people who are having problems with being locked in to LR are going to get completely and irreversably locked in by converted their photos to Adobe's proprietary format?  (And let's not get into a discussion about how open DNG is; the most flexible format is the one that your camera captures, period.)  DNG is a one way street that I am not prepared to go down.

                                                                       

                                                                      Btw, the fact that they are able to update DNG coverter so that it reads new cameras just shows you that they could have done the same with LR3.  They rushed LR4 out the door unfinished just as Nikon was releasing the D4 and D800 so that they can avoid supporting those cameras in LR3.  Shameless.

                                                                      • 1,592. Re: Lightroom 4 is slow
                                                                        areohbee Level 5

                                                                        davepinminn wrote:

                                                                         

                                                                        I believe the best thing that could happen to us as consumers would be a real, fanny-kicking, spectacular set of tools to compete with Adobe.

                                                                         

                                                                        Google maybe? - I heard they recently purchased Nik Software - they must have something up their sleeve...

                                                                         

                                                                        Picassa + Nik + $ = Lightroom killer?

                                                                        • 1,593. Re: Lightroom 4 is slow
                                                                          Another Photographer Level 1

                                                                          Rob Cole wrote:

                                                                           

                                                                          davepinminn wrote:

                                                                           

                                                                          I believe the best thing that could happen to us as consumers would be a real, fanny-kicking, spectacular set of tools to compete with Adobe.

                                                                           

                                                                          Google maybe? - I heard they recently purchased Nik Software - they must have something up their sleeve...

                                                                           

                                                                          Picassa + Nik + $ = Lightroom killer?

                                                                           

                                                                          Do you think Google bought Nik for Capture NX or for Snapseed?

                                                                          • 1,594. Re: Lightroom 4 is slow
                                                                            areohbee Level 5

                                                                            Dunno, but perhaps it warrants a new thread:

                                                                            http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1104421

                                                                            • 1,595. Re: Lightroom 4 is slow
                                                                              trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                              As I see it there are two primary groups of LR users – Professionals (i.e. how they earn a living) and Semi-Pro, Amateur, Point & Shoot. When I offered a suggestion concerning shooting JPEG or raw+JPEG it received criticism from the first group (Pros). "So we should just let the camera do everything and then just use LR for cataloging, creating slide shows and books?"

                                                                               

                                                                              In 1974 I started using SLR cameras and fixed focal length lenses with completely "manual" metering, shutter speed, aperture, and focus. I've experienced the complete evolution from full manual analog film photography to what we have with today's digital photography, and there is no reason to believe we've reached the "end of the line" concerning technology advancements.

                                                                               

                                                                              For example, when autofocus was first introduced it took a considerable amount of time before “serious photographers” would consider purchasing new autofocus bodies and lenses (self included). The lack of investment in autofocus technology even caused some camera companies to go out of business. How many people in this forum still actually use “manual” cameras that don’t have autofocus, auto aperture and auto shutter capability?

                                                                               

                                                                              I'm sure many "future" technology enhancements will be just as useful to ALL photographers. It’s also clear that just about everything is moving to Cloud computing. Those companies that come up with the best and most cost-effective Cloud implementations will be the clear winners. It should be very interesting!

                                                                              • 1,596. Re: Lightroom 4 is slow
                                                                                Victoria Bampton LR Queen Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                                Another Photographer wrote:

                                                                                They rushed LR4 out the door unfinished just as Nikon was releasing the D4 and D800 so that they can avoid supporting those cameras in LR3.  Shameless.

                                                                                 

                                                                                The release date was set long before anyone knew about the D4 and D800, believe me.  They don't set release dates based on what other companies happen to be doing.

                                                                                • 1,597. Re: Lightroom 4 is slow
                                                                                  areohbee Level 5

                                                                                  Knowing the truth takes all the fun out of conspiracy theories.

                                                                                  • 1,598. Re: Lightroom 4 is slow
                                                                                    SteffenB70 Level 1

                                                                                    Hi Geoff,

                                                                                     

                                                                                    This is on the performance of LR with Nikon D800 NEF files in the Development module:

                                                                                     

                                                                                    I'm also experiencing very slow performance with both LR 4.2 and 4.3 RC on both a full-spec 2011 iMac i7 @3.4Ghz with 16GB RAM and a new Retina Macbook Pro i7 @2.6 with 16GB RAM (both running 10.8.2).

                                                                                     

                                                                                    My issue: I cannot switch between 1:1 zoom views of two images without painful seconds of what appears time LR needs for re-rendering the views. I never had this issue with (smaller) D700 NEF files. But my assumption was since quick switching between 1:1 views of D800 files is possible in iPhoto why not in the professional grade LR too?

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Please fix this.

                                                                                    • 1,599. Re: Lightroom 4 is slow
                                                                                      Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                                      My issue: I cannot switch between 1:1 zoom views of two images without painful seconds of what appears time LR needs for re-rendering the views. I never had this issue with (smaller) D700 NEF files. But my assumption was since quick switching between 1:1 views of D800 files is possible in iPhoto why not in the professional grade LR too?

                                                                                      Steffen,

                                                                                       

                                                                                      unfortunately this behaviour is normal for displaying 1:1 previews from high resolution images. I had this in LR 3 all the time too with higher res images than a D800 generates but always ascribed it to my crazy images. It appears that loading and decoding the jpeg previews occurs on a single thread. I investigated this bahavior with another forum poster a short while ago who forwarded our observations (this being single threaded and taking 1-2 seconds every time for D800 NEF files and other high res images regardless of high fast your computer) to Adobe folks. Indeed other software is far faster at this. It really hampers your workflow if it takes over a second to switch between already generated previews. That said, if you see switching times of longer than about 2 seconds for already generated 1:1 previews, either the 1:1 previews were not yet actually generated because you changed a develop setting or something else is awry.