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1. Re: Mirrored spreads page reshuffling: objets partially outside pages don't update positions
P Spier Dec 12, 2012 8:18 AM (in response to Pedromvpg)I think this might be a bug. Which version of ID are you using?
As a workaround, have you tried grouping the ouliers with the other objects?
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2. Re: Mirrored spreads page reshuffling: objets partially outside pages don't update positions
Pedromvpg Dec 12, 2012 8:39 AM (in response to P Spier)Grouping will just cause the same effect but to the group.
Aperantly the objects that overlap with the pasteboar relate to it and not the actual page.
This is really anoying. Objects that are in the page but bleed out of it should always relate to the page, but they don't.
I'm using CS6.
I don't think its a bug, even though it feels like it.
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3. Re: Mirrored spreads page reshuffling: objets partially outside pages don't update positions
P Spier Dec 12, 2012 9:05 AM (in response to Pedromvpg)Actually, I think it may be a problem with your file. I just ried to reproduce it here, and it works correctly. Are you patched to 8.0.1?
Have you tried the standard troble shooting steps:
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4. Re: Mirrored spreads page reshuffling: objets partially outside pages don't update positions
Pedromvpg Dec 12, 2012 12:37 PM (in response to P Spier)Here's the .idml test file.
You're welcome to try but I'm pretty sure its not because of the file itself.
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B1c3X2oCVgCdWlBJX20zazRfUVk
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5. Re: Mirrored spreads page reshuffling: objets partially outside pages don't update positions
P Spier Dec 12, 2012 12:44 PM (in response to Pedromvpg)I'm not a user of Google docs...
I'll send you an upload link.
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6. Re: Mirrored spreads page reshuffling: objets partially outside pages don't update positions
Pedromvpg Dec 12, 2012 1:40 PM (in response to P Spier)here you go
Just try adding another page in before page 2 or shufling some page around.
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8. Re: Mirrored spreads page reshuffling: objets partially outside pages don't update positions
Pedromvpg Dec 12, 2012 2:15 PM (in response to P Spier)So thats what I expected. Same problem.
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9. Re: Mirrored spreads page reshuffling: objets partially outside pages don't update positions
P Spier Dec 12, 2012 2:21 PM (in response to P Spier)After a couple more experiments it seems to be tied to three columns and those particular margins. Page size itself doesn't seem to matter. Very strange, and I'm back to thinking it's a bug. I can reproduce it in new files created from scratch.
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10. Re: Mirrored spreads page reshuffling: objets partially outside pages don't update positions
P Spier Dec 12, 2012 2:29 PM (in response to Pedromvpg)Pedromvpg wrote:
So thats what I expected. Same problem.
Ah, I see why you expected that... the top few cyan frames were grouped. Nevertheless, it does seem to be just when you have the three columns and those margins.
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11. Re: Mirrored spreads page reshuffling: objets partially outside pages don't update positions
Laubender Dec 14, 2012 8:57 AM (in response to P Spier)Just opened the IDML:
it's also happening in InDesign CS5.5 v.7.5.3, CS5 v7.04 and CS4 v6.0.6.Exported to inx and opened in CS3 v5.0.4. Same issue.
Seems to be an old bug…
Uwe
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12. Re: Mirrored spreads page reshuffling: objets partially outside pages don't update positions
P Spier Dec 14, 2012 12:14 PM (in response to Laubender)Were you able to reproduce it using anything besides three columns and the 1.5/.25 inch margins?
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13. Re: Mirrored spreads page reshuffling: objets partially outside pages don't update positions
Laubender Dec 15, 2012 2:28 AM (in response to P Spier)@Peter – yes. I started from scratch with an A4 document and a two column layout with inner margins 70 mm outer margins 15 mm. Tried user defined margins, tried a one column version. The issues remained.
So, yes, I could reproduce it in every case.
But testing left we somewhat confused. I had the issues in one case, not in another one with documents built from scratch.
I still have to sort this out before I could make further statements.
Just one observation: it's like an infection. The moment you see objects shifting (whatever is the real culprit), you cannot go back to "normal" conditions.
Uwe
Message was edited by: Laubender
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14. Re: Mirrored spreads page reshuffling: objets partially outside pages don't update positions
P Spier Dec 15, 2012 4:19 AM (in response to Laubender)Laubender wrote:
Just one observation: it's like an infection. The moment you see objects shifting (whatever is the real culprit), you cannot go back to "normal" conditions.
Hmmm, I wonder if that's a localization thing. I could not make it happen with any other column/margin combination I tried, and I'm pretty sure if I changed the margins or columns in the origiinal page it was OK. Let me check....
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15. Re: Mirrored spreads page reshuffling: objets partially outside pages don't update positions
P Spier Dec 15, 2012 4:24 AM (in response to P Spier)Changing things on the existing page doesn't seem to work, but if I copy/paste in place the objects onto a new spread with a different setup they work correctly.
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16. Re: Mirrored spreads page reshuffling: objets partially outside pages don't update positions
Laubender Dec 15, 2012 4:57 AM (in response to P Spier)I cannot rule out the localization thing, but further testing yield more than weird results. In one occasion the objects that partly leave the page stand still and one of the objects totally inside the page was moved.
I cannot see a single condition, that forces the issue now.
Maybe a couple of things must come together…Uwe (still testing and finding his way around…)
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17. Re: Mirrored spreads page reshuffling: objets partially outside pages don't update positions
P Spier Dec 15, 2012 5:02 AM (in response to Laubender)Laubender wrote:
I cannot rule out the localization thing, but further testing yield more than weird results. In one occasion the objects that partly leave the page stand still and one of the objects totally inside the page was moved.
I thought that was happening too, until I realized that it was the opposite. The one I thought was statioanry was moved, and the rest were stationary -- they are a group.
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18. Re: Mirrored spreads page reshuffling: objets partially outside pages don't update positions
Laubender Dec 16, 2012 2:35 AM (in response to P Spier)@Peter – no, you misunderstood me. It was my own material I did the testing on.
Just two objects on the page. No group. The one that was moving did not touch the edge of the page.
And: it was moved to the left half out of the page…Tested with InDesign CS5.5 v.7.5.3, a document with four pages.
I put two rectangles on the master pages as quick indicators for a possible shift of objects on the actual pages.1. Starting position
master pages:Still starting position; a better look at pages 2 and 3:
(no groups, just two rectangles on the pages)
2. After swapping page 2 with 3:
//EDIT: Sorry, posted the wrong screen grab. Here is the right one:
I really don't know what's going on here.
UweMessage was edited by: Laubender
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19. Re: Mirrored spreads page reshuffling: objets partially outside pages don't update positions
P Spier Dec 16, 2012 7:52 AM (in response to Laubender)That looks to me like Layout Adjustment at work. The blue frame remained snapped to the first column guide.
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20. Re: Mirrored spreads page reshuffling: objets partially outside pages don't update positions
Laubender Dec 16, 2012 9:54 AM (in response to P Spier)@Peter – yeah. Layout Adjustment without setting the controls. Maybe under the hood. I myself did nothing…
Could be an explanation. And a valid description of the bug:
Layout Adjustment kicks in without the explicit will of the user.And that reminds me of an older thread at the Swiss/German Hilfdirselbst.ch InDesign user forums.
A faint memory…Let's see, there is at least one thread that is hinting in this direction:
"Textfeld verschiebt sich, wenn Seiten verschoben werden"
(text frame is shifting, if pages will be moved)http://www.hilfdirselbst.ch/gforum/gforum.cgi?post=496520#496520
I tried the following solution suggested somewhere else at the forum: just use the script "AdjustLayout.jsx" that is installed with InDesign.
But I have to say, it's useless. At least in this case with my InDesign CS5.5.
It does not move all page objects.I have to investigate why. Or come up with a more reliable script ;-)
Uwe
Message was edited by: Laubender
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21. Re: Mirrored spreads page reshuffling: objets partially outside pages don't update positions
TSimcha Nov 8, 2013 8:44 AM (in response to Pedromvpg)your problem is with items that bleed beyond the page. I'm afraid i can't help you with that. BUT, i'm desperate to know how you got to that point. Specifically, setting up a mirror layout, where, in your words, "objects are automatically adjusted relative to the margins" How in the world does one set such a thing up? I'm desperate to be able to do this, and can't make it happen. Please help!
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22. Re: Mirrored spreads page reshuffling: objets partially outside pages don't update positions
P Spier Nov 8, 2013 10:10 AM (in response to TSimcha)I think it would help if you satrt a new thread of your own and explain in detail what you want to accomplish.
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23. Re: Mirrored spreads page reshuffling: objets partially outside pages don't update positions
TSimcha Nov 10, 2013 7:48 PM (in response to P Spier)Thanks Peter, i did indeed start a seperate thread, but i posted my question here specifically because Laubender, in his question, seems to be able to do exactly what i'm trying to do, and i'm hoping he can be actually helpful. what i want to accomplish is to have object be adjusted to margins of a mirrored layout, which is the premise he has started with as a simple given, and yet i can find no means of acheiving this.
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24. Re: Mirrored spreads page reshuffling: objets partially outside pages don't update positions
Laubender Nov 11, 2013 12:19 AM (in response to TSimcha)@TSimcha – After posting to this thread in last December, I wrote a script fragment to test and proof some ideas overcoming that problem. As I recall it's only semi-automatic, that means it does not kick in, if you shuffle pages in InDesign, so it's not exactly what you want.
I did not finish or test it extensively, or make it very flexible or user friendly.
So I decided to not publish it then.
Sorry, currently I have no time to get back to it…
Uwe








