35 Replies Latest reply: Feb 28, 2013 3:32 PM by mimot15 RSS

    O.M.G. Slideshow in 4.4RC kinda works!

    asu_chic Community Member

      Ok, I know this is gonna be hard to believe after 4+ versions of LR, but, I just tried

      slideshow on the 4.4 RC and the timing issue which has been the bain of the slideshow

      module seems to have been adjusted. I have just tried 6-7 different slide shows, added

      music of various lengths, changed the fade durations, changed the type of music, source

      of music, and greatly varied lengths of music and it has actually worked in a manner that

      would be acceptible to view with a client in a face to face presentation. This includes using

      an intro and exit screen. I am using a mac with SnowLeopard. I will try this on a PC with

      Windows 7 Professional later today. You still can only use one soundtrack and make sure

      the sound track does not start or stop too abruptly, but what a big difference! I could not

      get it to mess up regardless of changes I made.

       

      I hope this does not mean the world is coming to an end today!!

       

      asu_chic

        • 1. Re: O.M.G. Slideshow in 4.4RC kinda works!
          trshaner Community Member

          The Slideshow module isn't even mentioned in the release notes. It's possible something else was changed that corrected the behavior or Adobe just didn't list the changes.

          • 2. Re: O.M.G. Slideshow in 4.4RC kinda works!
            asu_chic Community Member

            Yes, I noticed that too. I am not going to look a gift horse in the mouth however.

            Now, if it just doesn't regress when the 4.4 is released, I will be a very happy camper!

            • 3. Re: O.M.G. Slideshow in 4.4RC kinda works!
              asu_chic Community Member

              Well, trshaner, looks like you are correct. Update: I just installed the RC on Windows 7 Pro right

              now and it does not work, as usual. I do not know why it is working on my Mac, SnowLeopard,

              however, I suspect it will not function once the 4.4 is a final release. It is apparently just a happy

              coincidence for now. What a bummer.

              • 4. Re: O.M.G. Slideshow in 4.4RC kinda works!
                trshaner Community Member

                Oh well.....I finally gave up on LR's Slideshow module ever working well and purchased ProShow by Photodex. It is marvelous by comparison.

                • 5. Re: O.M.G. Slideshow in 4.4RC kinda works!
                  asu_chic Community Member

                  Yes, I did too. That's why I had a PC laptop to check this out on. I only use it to run ProShow.

                  I did not want to run virtual/bootcamp on my processing Mac or my MBP that I travel with. 

                  Oh well, it would have been nice with client previews. Like you, I think LR Slideshow is never

                  going to function properly. Adobe might as well remove the module for all the good it is.  It is

                  interesting that something in the RC for Mac has temporarily caused the module to work on my

                  system with Snow Leopard. It suggests to me that the answer is possibly not that far removed if

                  they would just take a look at it instead of letting the module be an orphan through 4 releases.

                  • 6. Re: O.M.G. Slideshow in 4.4RC kinda works!
                    Butch_M Community Member

                    I've given up as well ... though I have been using Aperture for my Slideshows and Book designing. I had high hopes that Adobe would be more responsive.

                     

                    I have now reached the crossroad and am going to flat out give up on Lightroom completely as it seems Adobe doesn't want to focus on Lr as a workflow solution ... just a different wrapper for ACR. While I don't have any issues with the improvements that have evolved over time with the Develop module/ACR ... I'm tired of paying money to developers who insist on ignoring important components or offering half-measure or incomplete solutions.

                     

                    I create an average of 150-200 books/albums per year ... In 2012 I created over 150 custom slideshows for clients ... as a result I am crushed under a mountain of unnecessary derivative files exported for use in other software to complete my task ... something I thought Lr was developed to solve ... The goal of creating slideshows and books working directly from my RAW images in Aperture, eliminating all the clutter and waste of time exporting them, is now incentive enough to move on.

                     

                    Today I took a fresh batch of 600 RAW images and processed them in both Lr 4.4 RC and Aperture 3.4.3 ... I created duplicate web galleries from the edits, compared prints from both (4x6 and 8x10) and side-by-side comparisons at 400% view in Ps ... Guess what? ... the difference between the resulting options isn't worth the effort to continue business as usual any longer.

                     

                    I know that Apple hasn't been very timely themselves on taking Aperture to the next level ... but I'll always have Ps/ACR to fall back on if they don't step up ... either way, my workflow will be much less tedious.

                    • 7. Re: O.M.G. Slideshow in 4.4RC kinda works!
                      trshaner Community Member

                      I can't say that I blame you for moving on. I started doing photography work back in the early 1970s, and made the transition to digital cameras in 2004. Back in the film days all we had were prints. Today prints probably make up less than 1/3 of the image usage, yet LR really only excels in the area of print output.

                      • 8. Re: O.M.G. Slideshow in 4.4RC kinda works!
                        Butch_M Community Member

                        I too started out in the 1970s ... this is my 38th year as a full time pro ... I went completely digital in in 2000 when I bought my first Nikon D1, then I was mainly shooting sports for newsprint so the D1 was more than enough camera for the job and it was VERY liberating to be released from the chains of the traditional darkroom ... I processed my last roll of film on April 1, 2000 and don't miss dealing with all those chemicals and countless hours of scanning one bit ...

                         

                        I will concede that the Lr Print module is probably the app's greatest asset (I pretty much bought Lr v1 mainly for that feature) ... though, since I now have 95% of my printing handled by pro labs, it isn't as essential to my workflow as it once was. In the end, while I have been a staunch supporter and satisfied user of Adobe products up until relatively recently, I have become increasingly dismayed at the lack of advancement in several modules for Lr along with the recent change in Adobe's upgrade pricing policies, I am inclined to seek out other options ... in fact, since I strive to get as much done right in the capture phase, I utilize Ps less and less with each passing day ... to the point if Pixelmator ever does achieve Layer styles in a reasonable fashion for easy compositing of posters and collage designs ... I may not be so eager to pursue upgrading Ps either ...

                        • 9. Re: O.M.G. Slideshow in 4.4RC kinda works!
                          asu_chic Community Member

                          Well Butch, I see we have yet another thread about LR and the orphans. I too have a similar work usage and I too have just

                          about reached the point of change. It is entirely too much work and certainly not time/cost effective to have to MPEG Streamclip,

                          Audacity, and god knows how many other products to produce a client product we vend all the time. ProShow has been the best

                          answer so far as respects Slideshows/video from stills. I hate that I have to either use my PC screen to edit in a hurry or hook up

                          to my NEC. The color is never quite the same hooked up to the PC as opposed to my MBP or Mac and it is a pita. My other option is to

                          process my files on my Mac, transfer to the PC, run  ProShow, transfer the files back etc. If ProShow would develop a Mac version

                          they could rule the universe!!!  LOL Unfortunately, that is not about to happen. I have yet to try Aperture but am almost to that point.

                          I do loath IPhoto and Apple is known for forcing their own way or the highway and have become increasingly more so the past year.

                          I am also leary of Apple's continued support of anything non-Iwhatsit or design/photography based.  I originally bought the first version

                          of DxO years ago for the lens module as it was state of the art at the time. I have kept updated each release though I rarely use the product,

                          but I can say it is much improved each and every upgrade. It is at the point that if it, or some other software company with a similarly

                          well thought out product can combine that with the layering power of PS and the archiving of LR they will really have a chance to

                          impact the market. Best case at this point, I will just have to bite the bullet, buy a copy of Windows7 and partition my drive and park

                          ProShow on my Mac and wait and see what the powers that be come up with and what options may develop.

                          • 10. Re: O.M.G. Slideshow in 4.4RC kinda works!
                            Butch_M Community Member

                            asu_chic ... this short tutorial video was what sold me on Aperture for slideshows .. it made the $80 investment worthwhile ... the added bonus of making books and albums directly from my RAW files (even custom sizes and layouts) was a convenient surprise:

                             

                            http://tinyurl.com/a7zwlnc

                             

                            Here is the comparison of the same image processed in Aperture 3.4.3 and Lr 4.4 RC ... I'll let you guess which is which ... to me there is so little difference, I don't think I'm going to lose any sleep over making a switch. This image is an example of the majority of my work shot at high ISO in small high school gyms or night field lights for football and soccer. Shot with D300s, ISO 3200, 1/500 sec, f/2.8.

                             

                            Aperture3vsLr4-4.jpg

                            • 11. Re: O.M.G. Slideshow in 4.4RC kinda works!
                              trshaner Community Member

                              Yep, identical for all intents and purposes.

                               

                              It sounds like you're an old-timer like me....the first Baby Boomers born in 1946. I'm a Windows guy so Mac platform apps like Aperture aren't an option for me. Speaking of video this is another area that needs to be addressed as almost all DSLRs today can shoot 1080p video, and the new Canon 1D C can shoot 4K video. I purchased Cyberlink PowerDirector for processing my 5D MKII video. So the list of required apps for a professional photographer is just going to get longer. If Adobe, Apple, or some other software developer offers a non-destructive raw editor that provides good support for all media processing – They will have a winner. It sounds like Aperture is pretty close to being their already.

                               

                              I also use CS6 Design Standard and many of the "new" features work well and are very useful, so Adobe knows how to get it right. I guess it comes down to a "marketing model" designed to maximize profitability. Putting a full set of professional tools into LR with good capability would decrease sales of the CS product line. It's a real shame because I would be happy to pay 2x to 3x more for a LR product with this capability, as I'm sure you would as well. Maybe Adobe could offer a LR Elements product and a full-featured LR Pro product.

                              • 12. Re: O.M.G. Slideshow in 4.4RC kinda works!
                                Butch_M Community Member

                                Aperture doesn't really edit video other than trim ... and I wouldn't expect an image processing solution to do full-fledged video editing (at least not yet) ... but the ability to add video clips seemlessy to a slideshow is quite nice ... you can even overide and/or balance the music sound track audio in favor of the sound track from the video ... very handy for a quick setup of a multimedia presentation.

                                • 13. Re: O.M.G. Slideshow in 4.4RC kinda works!
                                  trshaner Community Member

                                  Agreed, full editing capability isn't required just the ability to mix video and still shots with a few simple transition options in the Slideshow application. The goal is just as you stated – Ability to create all of your media output inside LR using only the original raw image files. If more editing is required you can then take the LR MP4 file into a full-fledged video editor.

                                   

                                  Unfortunately the current LR4 Slideshow module doesn't even create good output with still photos.

                                  • 14. Re: O.M.G. Slideshow in 4.4RC kinda works!
                                    asu_chic Community Member

                                    Wow, I guess I need to look into Aperture. Thanks for the link. I am impressed. It looks like a

                                    little varience in the reds and oranges, very little in noise, and the blues looked spot on. It really

                                    looks like a difference that can easily be worked around with presets/curves. What about archiving

                                    and does Apple force you to use IPhoto or can you use your own system?? My current workflow is LR

                                    on the main disk, all raw/pic files are on a separate disk, and LR BU stored both on main disk and

                                    external disk. External disk is swapped to MBP if I wish to use LR there. LR on the PC is strictly

                                    for the use of ProShow and thus has it's own small catalogue. I keep 3 BU copies on separate disks

                                    at all time and alternate with offsite bank lockbox storage. Do you see a problem strictly using Aperture

                                    for slides/books and storing the files separately in the same locations??? Again, thanks for the link.

                                    • 15. Re: O.M.G. Slideshow in 4.4RC kinda works!
                                      asu_chic Community Member

                                      You said it exactly right there. Repeat:   "Unfortunately the current LR4 Slideshow module doesn't even create good output with still photos." In short, it serves no purpose. The longer Adobe continues to send this same non-functioning non-improved module back to us, the users, the more it implies a lack of concern on their part, actually, it just about borders on contempt. The irony is that in an earlier version, we could at least add more music via a GarageBand work around that lasted for a whole version of ITunes, even if the fades/start/stops never matched. The next alternative was/is Audacity/MPEG Streamclip etc, the processing of which requires a separate computer left for hours to process a small production slide show, never mind video. We as prefessionals cannot possible charge enough to pay for the time, software expense and processing man hours based on this workflow.  I for one am going to check out Aperture for the presentation slideshow/books portion of my work, and continue to use ProShow for all of the heavyweight slideshow to client DVD video work. You said a mouthful in a previous comment above regarding the escalating use of multiple software, and I rather think this is going to become more pronounced as we improve/broach new DSLR/Video capabilities in the future.

                                      • 16. Re: O.M.G. Slideshow in 4.4RC kinda works!
                                        Butch_M Community Member

                                        *** As a disclaimer ... I'm not discussing Aperture here because I'm a shill for Apple ... I'm just seeking options that Adobe doesn't seem to be very eager to fulfill ... I would LOVE to not have to go through all the effort to learn another system and stick with Lr as my solution ... but I can't wait forever for something that may never happen because a developer isn't as concerned about my needs and requirements as I am. Adobe was the one that offered a Slideshow option with Lr and has failed to further develop the module and left it basically unimproved since it's introduction. ***

                                         

                                        asu_chic wrote:

                                         

                                        It looks like a little varience in the reds and oranges, very little in noise, and the blues looked spot on. It really

                                        looks like a difference that can easily be worked around with presets/curves.

                                        I attribute the difference in color and tone to my inexperience with the adjustments in Aperture 3 ... I didn't compre the two image until I made the composite to post here ... just processed them both to my visual tastes ... I don't think the average user could match processing identically even with the same software ...

                                         

                                         

                                        asu_chic wrote:

                                         

                                        What about archiving and does Apple force you to use IPhoto or can you use your own system?? My current workflow is LR

                                        on the main disk, all raw/pic files are on a separate disk, and LR BU stored both on main disk and external disk. External disk is swapped to MBP if I wish to use LR there.

                                        No, you don't have to use iPhoto at all. As I recall, when you install Aperture, it will ask you if you want to import your iPhoto Catalog, but you are not required to. I do have a small collection of personal family images in iPhoto mainly to create albums to use on my iPad and iPhone in the past. Interestingly, in one of the last updates for iPhoto and Aperture 3, they made the catalogs interchangeable between the two apps ... though you can't adjust images in iPhoto with the same tools found in Aperture ... I think they did this so Photo Stream would work across both apps if users wished to do so.

                                         

                                        I use Aperture the same way I do Lightroom with referenced files on the drives where the images reside ... all external FW 800 SATA drives (soon to be upgraded to Thunderbolt) ... Aperture does offer the option to store the images within the catalog ... but for most heavy users, you'd run out of disk space quite rapidly ... especially with a laptop internal drive ... you could maintain your backup process as you do now with Lightroom. When you import images, just be sure to choose "Store files: In their current location" if they are already on disk ... or Choose location to tell Aperture where to save the images if you are importing from the camera or memory card ...

                                         

                                        Just as with Lr, you can create a new catalog on your laptop when working on the road ... then merge or import that catalog upon your return with your main library. There really isn't a whole lot of difference between the apps operationally ... maybe a bit of confusion with the jargon used to describe a feature or task ... pretty much they are quite similar ...

                                         

                                        Another big plus with Aperture 3 is the adjustment brush for retouching ... it's VERY good ... no clicking the clone/heal tool dozens of times in Lr to remove a stray hair in a portrait or round tripping to Ps just for a brush stroke or two ... very convenient ...

                                        • 17. Re: O.M.G. Slideshow in 4.4RC kinda works!
                                          trshaner Community Member

                                          Not to mention Adobe's new policy on upgrades:

                                           

                                          http://www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite/upgradeinfo.html

                                           

                                          You now only qualify to purchase a CS upgrade from the previous product (EX- CS5 or CS 5.5 to CS6). It used to be two upgrades (i.e. CS3 qualified for CS5/CS5.5):

                                           

                                          http://scottkelby.com/2011/an-open-letter-to-adobe-systems/http://www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite/designstandard/buying-guide-upgrades.html

                                           

                                          I'm not trying to bash Adobe here in one of its own forums. They are now offering the Creative Cloud, which may be more cost effective for some users. It's just that for pro users on a tight budget (and who isn't!) we are having to pay more and getting less. When you add in the non-Adobe apps required (for reasons given) and other equipment costs, it's getting very expensive to run any kind of photography business.

                                           

                                          Peace.

                                          • 18. Re: O.M.G. Slideshow in 4.4RC kinda works!
                                            Butch_M Community Member

                                            What worries me about the new upgrade policy ... if the vast majority of users opt for the subscription plan, it removes the incentive for the developer to strive for improvement in the product in a timely fashion and be more responsive to their userbase ... under the old policy, there was a need by Adobe to excel with development every 18-24 months to secure an injection of cash ... now they can take their good old time ... before, if what Adobe offered didn't impress you or offered improvements that were not beneficial to your needs, you didn't have to support it with your hard-earned cash you could pass a version or two until there were improvements or new features that did meet your needs ... now we'll be a captive audience and have to accept whatever they trickle out to us or face paying a penalty for sitting out a version.

                                             

                                            Other than Lightroom and maybe InDesign (I haven't looked at QuarkExpress in nearly a decade to know what it is doing) ... where are you going to get apps that would replace the likes Ps, Illustrator, etc.? If the glacial pace that Adobe provides tethering support or the lack of improvements in the Slideshow and Web modules ... and the failure that is the Book module for users who want to print their books anywhere but Blurb, is any indication ... with their recent record, I'm not convinced Adobe has my best interests at heart in their business model.

                                            • 19. Re: O.M.G. Slideshow in 4.4RC kinda works!
                                              asu_chic Community Member

                                              Butch, thanks for the response. I totally get that you are not advocating for Apple, neither am I. In fact, I really don't think they are going to be a reliable long term option if they continue as IKings. I too would much prefer to learn one set of products rather than many, but I first and formost must produce for my clients what they expect and deserve. Thanks for the tips, I will give it a trial. Interesting comments regarding the adjustment brush. Now that does sound useful.

                                              • 20. Re: O.M.G. Slideshow in 4.4RC kinda works!
                                                asu_chic Community Member

                                                Plus 1. I think that just about says it all. One more aside. In light of the economics of the day, we actually do not know the pressures the development teams are facing from the powers that be, not the pressures those Powers are facing from the Bigger Powers. It is all about the cash flow, and as much as I hate to acknowledge it, we, the consumers are actually on the bottom of the chain of importance when any corporation is looking at their profit margins, and this applies to Adobe as well as any other company. I for one will not play the cloud roulette.

                                                • 21. Re: O.M.G. Slideshow in 4.4RC kinda works!
                                                  jeffdl Community Member

                                                  This is to push everyone towards creative cloud. That's where they want us all.

                                                   

                                                  Note: this is just a statement, not a judgement of whether it's good or bad.

                                                  • 22. Re: O.M.G. Slideshow in 4.4RC kinda works!
                                                    jeffdl Community Member

                                                    Yikes! I just purchased LR4 after getting tired of Apple's lack of attention to iPhoto (annoying destructive bugs unfixed). In fact, I was just organizing my exported photos getting ready to import into LR4.

                                                     

                                                    For those talking up Aperture, the overwhelming consensus in the Mac community seems to be its dead/dying. It's had no serious love for a few years now.

                                                     

                                                    I've no inside knowledge, but when I asked around and read forums, etc. that seemed to be the overwhelming opinion/complaint.

                                                     

                                                    So... am I jumping from the frying pan to the fire? Haha... well, I think I'll push on anyway.

                                                    • 23. Re: O.M.G. Slideshow in 4.4RC kinda works!
                                                      Butch_M Community Member

                                                      jeffdl wrote:

                                                       

                                                      So... am I jumping from the frying pan to the fire? Haha... well, I think I'll push on anyway.

                                                       

                                                      Naw .... no software solution is perfect ...

                                                       

                                                      I agree that Aperture 3.x is getting a bit long in the tooth and many folks would agree that too much time between versions ... but Aperture has also not languished without any attention ... v3.0 was introduced on Feb. 9, 2010 ... since then it has been updated 20 times to the most current version of 3.4.3 on Nov. 15, 2012 ... with a very significant update on Nov. 1, 2012 ... and this doesn't include Digital Camera RAW updates and tethering support has been added on a very regular basis as well though, those updates are applied at the system level rather than the applicatiion level.

                                                       

                                                      For example Apple added RAW support as well as tether support for the Nikon D600 on Oct. 25, 2012 ... Lr 4.x does support the RAW files, it still doesn't support thethering for the D600 ... then looking at the slideshow and book making features in Aperture and they substantially more advanced than what is available in Lr. ... but Lr has many positives of it's own ... noise reduction is much better, lens correction, slightly better finer detail in RAW processing and the Print module should have been included with Photoshop v1 to name a few ... so there is considerable leap frogging between the options ... again neither option is perfect for all users ...

                                                       

                                                      Then consider that Apple has advertised and interviewed prospective employees to specifically work on Aperture in recent months ... so Aperture dead or dying ... I'm not yet quite convinced of that ... but I really would like to see their next offering before I make my move ...

                                                      • 24. Re: O.M.G. Slideshow in 4.4RC kinda works!
                                                        trshaner Community Member

                                                        According to this site Windows platforms make up 92% of the market and OS X platforms about 7%. Granted there may be a higher percentage of photography users who are on Mac platforms, but I doubt more than 2x (i.e. ~14% market share).

                                                         

                                                        With such a small percentage of the photography user market it's surprising Apple has done so well with Aperture. Perhaps Apple looks at it as a vehicle to entice more people to buy Mac hardware and doesn't mind selling it at a loss. Obviously Adobe doesn't have that option –Just a thought.

                                                        • 25. Re: O.M.G. Slideshow in 4.4RC kinda works!
                                                          asu_chic Community Member

                                                          Well, I for one am going to give Aperture a try. We have all been aware from the beginning that with digital processing we have had to use various specialized software for specific things, i.e. sharpening, noise, etc., however, the biggest point of all this is the frustration that the largest image/design software producer creates a product touted to do xyz, and x or y doesn't do what it is supposed to do and everyone and their dog knows this, and 4+ releases later, fourth verse, same as the first.  Here's the thing for me. Using LR, I know that I am going to sometimes use PS or some other software on a specific image. Thanks to LR's design, and that of most 3rd party SW, I can open a file in Software Other, process my file and return it to LR as a tiff. It's doable. On the other hand, there is no 3rd party software to open as a plugin and create a slideshow or a book. No, so LR was touted with that capability via two Modules that the developers took the time to create. Everyone knows it doesn't work, but somehow, 5-6 years of development later, it hasn't even been touched. The book module came out a little later, but it too is suffering from some of the same issues. Yes, it it frustrating, time consuming, and costly to the end user. I don't know the answer, because, as trshaner points out in the post above, Apple is looking at this from an entirely different viewpoint than Adobe, and I sure wouldn't put my eggs in one basket with them, because, honestly, though I am a Mac user and have multiple IProducts, I do not for one minute believe that they have my best interest at heart. Part of the frustration is that I, as well as many others here, own and have used every PS, LR and Beta since CS2 and LR1. That is a lot of investment in time and money using their company products and yep, maybe, just maybe that deserves a little consideration on their part.  Just a thought: Is it just possible, just maybe, that if a company puts their clients first and their products first, and their service first, gasp, just maybe the bottom line that the beancounters worry about will take care of itself???Kinda the old cart behind the horse instead of the other way around????

                                                          • 26. Re: O.M.G. Slideshow in 4.4RC kinda works!
                                                            twenty_one Community Member

                                                            trshaner wrote:

                                                             

                                                            According to this site Windows platforms make up 92% of the market and OS X platforms about 7%. Granted there may be a higher percentage of photography users who are on Mac platforms

                                                            Actually sales for the creative suites have been roughly 50/50 Win/Mac for many years. But that of course includes agencies where they wouldn't be caught dead with a Windows box in their reception area, let alone "creative"...

                                                             

                                                            From what I see, that ratio isn't too far off the mark among the professional photographers either. Remember, historically, Apple used to have a virtual monopoly in this segment.

                                                            • 27. Re: O.M.G. Slideshow in 4.4RC kinda works!
                                                              trshaner Community Member

                                                              I wonder what the stats are for LR vs Aperture users? If what you're saying is also true for LR (50/50 - Win/Mac) then it probably outsells Aperture by at least 10:1, since it's a Mac only platform. That would put Apple's marketshare for Aperture at <10%.

                                                               

                                                              http://www.apertureland.com/2011/01/13/apples-79-79-aperture-is-a-strike-against-adobe/

                                                               

                                                              It's doubtful Apple will make Aperture cross-platform and at the new price they are selling it at a loss. From my 45+ years of technology industry experience as a design engineer, product marketing manager, and sales executive, that's bad business practice. So what does the future look like for Aperture? Some observations and food for thought:

                                                               

                                                              http://www.chuqui.com/2012/06/aperture-vs-lightroom-it-is-unfortunately-an-easy-call/

                                                               

                                                              http://www.beardsworth.co.uk/tag/aperture/

                                                               

                                                              And I'm not trying to bash Apple either.

                                                              • 28. Re: O.M.G. Slideshow in 4.4RC kinda works!
                                                                jeffdl Community Member

                                                                No way they'll make it cross platform and selling it at a loss is irrelevant. A lot of their software is sold cheaply (the OS, iLife apps, iWork apps, hell even most of the Pro apps). It's about platform and ecosystem for Apple. This software pricing strategy has certainly not been bad practice for them; Apple's profits are staggering.

                                                                • 29. Re: O.M.G. Slideshow in 4.4RC kinda works!
                                                                  twenty_one Community Member

                                                                  I'm not sure ordinary business logic even applies to Apple anymore. They have found the holy grail - their marketing strategies have been so successful that they no longer sell products; they sell a lifestyle. They can do whatever the heck they want and not only get away with it, but make money doing it. It's market economy turned upside down, it's where every big company wishes they were, but aren't.

                                                                   

                                                                  The pro community has always been very loyal to Apple, and that, historically, is what kept the company going. But by now they have bigger fish to fry - they have a world to conquer. They don't need Aperture, or Mac Pro, or their traditional user base. So the question is, will they abandon it altogether?

                                                                  • 30. Re: O.M.G. Slideshow in 4.4RC kinda works!
                                                                    asu_chic Community Member

                                                                    Bingo! That's the rub, and it is unfortunately a very big one. The changes at Apple and their direction is no less disconcerting than that of Adobe if you rely entirely on their system/products. Apple seems bent on user control, and that doesn't mesh with creative processes very well at times. This becomes a bigger gorilla in the room when you consider we are now talking hardware as well as software.

                                                                    • 31. Re: O.M.G. Slideshow in 4.4RC kinda works!
                                                                      mimot15 Community Member

                                                                      @ Butch_M

                                                                       

                                                                      Yes, difficult to say which one had produced the right one and the left one.. I would suggest the left one was made with LR4.4 and right with Aperture ? But with this size it's difficult to be sure of course.

                                                                      I've just installed LR 4.4RC and I'm very disapointed because the blurred image I get compared to 4.3 release is really disturbing me. If this point is not corrected, and problaby it will not, I will stop upgrading LR. I also agree with the use of LR mainly for Library and Print tasks, raw conversion is more and more done with PhotoNinja as external editor and returning tif image format back to LR. The huge quality difference between ACR and PhotoNinja (I own no shares of Picturecode !) is amazing : top rendering, fast and easy, even in very difficult situations. In the past I was interested in LR use because they also have a good lens correction module and this point is absolutely required with some "extreme" zoom lenses like the 28-300 Nikon aso.. DxO could be a good choice too, but they also miss a library module and keep carefully some curious bugs or/and technical faults (for example dust spots could not be greater as 50 pixels ; on a 24 or 36 Mpix DSLR..? without comment).

                                                                       

                                                                      The conclusion is, imho, if you want to leave LR definitively Aperture is a very good choice, particularly if you look for a reasonable price. (Since Aperture 3 in on market, Adobe changed LR several times with upgrades, not only updates). Of course all this will also depend what kind of photos you make and what you're doing with..! If you simply send your images for FB discussion purposes, all solutions are good enough no ? If you're producing "high quality photos" there's no complete absolute good solution. Perhaps Phase One with C1 is one of the best compromises ? LR should have to be a good photo workflow solution but today there are some important disappointing things. Of course that's only a personal point of view.

                                                                       

                                                                      PS : I also began film photography in the middle of 70s and came to digital during 2003.

                                                                      • 32. Re: O.M.G. Slideshow in 4.4RC kinda works!
                                                                        Butch_M Community Member

                                                                        I want to thank everyone for keeping this discussion at a polite and reasonable manner. I'm surprised that it hasn't spiraled out of control by now. It's refreshing to exchange ideas and concerns without all the drama.

                                                                         

                                                                        Indeed Apple has seemed to part the ways from their historical and traditional offerings since the advent of their unprecedented success with iDevices. In Feb. 2010 when the last full version of Aperture was introduced, Apple had yet to sell their very first iPad ... but ... they also have shown growth in unit sales of traditional computers each and every quarter since then, though, it hasn't been widely reported ... while the rest of the industry has seen either stagnant or significantly reduced unit sales across the board for that same period. Even though they have had far greater success with profits from their mobile device line, Apple continues to increase sales for their traditional line. Even though there has been less focus on the traditional side of their wares.

                                                                         

                                                                        Many pro Apple users are concerned that there hasn't been any significant improvement or updates in the Mac Pro for some time ... but the current iMac and Macbook Pro models are at a point now, from a pure hardware horsepower perspective, are equal to or slightly better than what a top of the line Mac Pro is capable of ... however, Apple has said there will be a refresh later this year of the Mac Pro. We'll have to wait and see. In all honesty, while many Apple users are concerned there has not been a recent refresh in the Mac Pro ... there also has not been much improvement from a hardware perspective in what Apple could stuff in one of those traditional boxes ... especially when you consider that Dell still offers a floppy drive as an option in their build-to-order sales ...

                                                                         

                                                                        Of course, by the numbers, Apple computer use vs. Windows PC, the former does indeed hold a significantly smaller market share ... but, I would also wager that the vast majority of folks who rely on apps like Aperture are a very robust and loyal user group ... like myself, I've never owned a computer that wasn't built by Apple ... for when I started out using computers in the photography business ... Photoshop was only available on the Mac platform ... never really saw any good reason to change.

                                                                         

                                                                        Apple bent on user control? Sorry, I don't concur ... While I don't consider Apple perfect or without flaws ... I also don't feel any constraints using their products. Heck, if I could accomplish what I need to do on an iPad with their "closed" and controlling system vs a traditional box PC , so be it. The issue of getting the job done as efficiently as possible is the prime directive for me, how I get there or what hardware/software is required to accomplish my goals is a lesser concern. I'm more concerned about results than if I have to jailbreak my phone so I can have the "freedom" to stylize or customize the unit beyond what the manufacturer or developer intended. I think all the hype about Apple being restrictive is overblown and unnecessary ... at least in my own personal experience using their products.

                                                                         

                                                                        The bottom line for me is I am seeking a solution to my workflow concerns, regardless of the individual vendor issues, if one of them (or even another vendor I am currently unaware of) would ever get off their duff and offer a complete and viable option, I'd buy it and implement it with glee. The disappointing aspect is neither of the sources discussed here have done so yet.

                                                                        • 33. Re: O.M.G. Slideshow in 4.4RC kinda works!
                                                                          Butch_M Community Member

                                                                          mimot15 wrote:

                                                                           

                                                                          @ Butch_M

                                                                           

                                                                          I've just installed LR 4.4RC and I'm very disapointed because the blurred image I get compared to 4.3 release is really disturbing me. If this point is not corrected, and problaby it will not, I will stop upgrading LR.

                                                                           

                                                                          This is another quirky concern about Adobe and Lightroom ... with all the issues of the Lr 4.0 release ... Adobe has found it necessary to offer RC beta releases before finalizing them ... That's all well and good I suppose ... but geez ... I'm tired of being a beta tester when I should be actually working on my own efforts ... not sifting through and testing the work of other folks I am paying for solutions ... I would guess I have invested several hundred hours over the past several years beta testing Lr as a volunteer participant ... I'm not sure it has always been a wise decision to have done so.

                                                                           

                                                                          Now if Adobe wants to put me on their payroll to confirm or deny their offerings ... I'm open for discussing the matter with them further ..

                                                                          • 34. Re: O.M.G. Slideshow in 4.4RC kinda works!
                                                                            asu_chic Community Member

                                                                            Butch, for clarification of my remark regarding Apple control, I am not saying that all is bad. I have used Macs since my first digital endevours and only have one PC which I use for Proshow. It is a dust collector otherwise. I absolutely love the interface and the product. But, and this is a big one to me, Apple has elected to push their products in a consumer direction aimed at the Apple "lifestyle" as was previously mentioned. Glossy screens, no optical drives, thunderbolts with no thunder to attach, all met with a degree of concern from some quarters, myself included. The issue was not the new glitz, it was the lack of choices that had previously been a available. I have no problem with them giving us shiny new products as long as they don't forget the professionals that supported them in their lean years. I don't want to be told I do not know what to do with a file and I might hurt it so I don't need to know where it is. I don't want to be left to any company's tender mercies for both hardware and processing software.  Given the price tag I can readily understand the concern of a MacPro user with an end of life product wanting to know which way to jump without financial disaster. It is not an Apple thing. It is a business thing and we see it in all aspects of our lives.  We have seen the quibbles and blame games between camera maker, software designer, OS designer, third party software designer and end users each and every time a major new camera is released. Each declares they are right and all other parties are at fault for xyz not working, not yet supported, or the like. Frankly, much of this is likely due to the magnitude of the advances we are seeing in digital technology and the speed at which they are happening. That part is good, no question about it. My concern is that of support and choices.  Apple moves forward, and when they make a decision to go in x direction, that is what they do, no ifs, ands or buts. The same can of course be said of all if not most large companies. So yes, that uncertainty does concern me regarding Aperture

                                                                             

                                                                            BYW, a big +1000 to your last paragraph!  We can only hope it will happen. When it does, I am soooooo there.

                                                                            • 35. Re: O.M.G. Slideshow in 4.4RC kinda works!
                                                                              mimot15 Community Member

                                                                              @ Butch_M :

                                                                               

                                                                              I think there's a double question with these pre-releases : 1. they are not finished of course and so we can find some things to correct, hoping Adobe will make this right;  2. Adobe can "feel and see" how the new release is perceived from user community and show users that Adobe take care of them. Until here nothing wrong. The problem however is that some features are already so much modified (case of ACR 4.4RC used in LR) that probably no change will be possible at this deep level ?