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1. Re: How do I tell Lightroom 4 not to disconnect my card reader after an import?
Jim Wilde Jan 10, 2013 11:34 AM (in response to Nevada Shooter)Lightroom shouldn't "disconnect your card reader after import", so there's no setting that can be set/changed to influence this. Or did you really mean you want it to stop EJECTING the card from the card reader after import? In which case simply uncheck the option to "Eject after Import" on the import panel:
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2. Re: How do I tell Lightroom 4 not to disconnect my card reader after an import?
Nevada Shooter Jan 10, 2013 11:47 AM (in response to Jim Wilde)Thanks. Knowing what word to look for makes all the difference. I had tried looking for "Unmount" as well, but did not think of "Eject"
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3. Re: How do I tell Lightroom 4 not to disconnect my card reader after an import?
skyrunr Mar 13, 2013 5:57 PM (in response to Nevada Shooter)Thank you, this has bothered me since they started doing that. They REALLY should have put this option in the right-hand column where all the other import options are. Way over on the right I don't get the feeling that the setting will be remembered.
Next, to look into why the move option isn't available (greyed out) upon import.
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4. Re: How do I tell Lightroom 4 not to disconnect my card reader after an import?
areohbee Mar 13, 2013 11:22 PM (in response to skyrunr)skyrunr wrote:
Next, to look into why the move option isn't available (greyed out) upon import.
Lr only supports moving from hard disk, not cards.
Which, given how import works, is probably a good idea, since cards, readers, cables, etc. can go bad and it's hard for Lr to tell until further on down the road, if images are ok or not.
That said, I am a proponent of a "delete after import" feature, even if "move" not allowed - the distinction being: image integrity verified prior to deletion.
Some people think "move" should be allowed too - user beware..., but Adobe just plugged the loop hole that allowed users to do it if they knew the trick, so don't hold breath...
Anyway, if it's important enough to you, the OttomanicImporter plugin supports delete-after-import feature.
Cheers,
Rob
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5. Re: How do I tell Lightroom 4 not to disconnect my card reader after an import?
Jeff Schewe Mar 15, 2013 2:08 AM (in response to areohbee)Rob Cole wrote:
That said, I am a proponent of a "delete after import" feature, even if "move" not allowed - the distinction being: image integrity verified prior to deletion.
Uh huh...so, if you would turn on delete after import, how exactly do you suppose LR would be able to verify the images before deletion?
Any way you look at it, Move is not a good idea from a card and Delete after import is esentially the same issue. If you delete BEFORE verification and something is wrong with the import, how do you fix that if the images have been deleted?
Naw, sorry, this is not a rabbit hole users should be allowed to fall into (even if they think they do).
The really best way is import...verify in LR that the import is good and then (and only then) reformat the card in the camera it is intended to be used in. Anything else is really a foolish risk...
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6. Re: How do I tell Lightroom 4 not to disconnect my card reader after an import?
areohbee Mar 15, 2013 3:09 AM (in response to Jeff Schewe)Are you suggesting there is no way to determine whether images have been succesfully imported or not? If so, then I disagree.
If you want to know how I do it, it's easy enough to find out (hint: read the source, Luke... - please let me know if you need more info...).
PS - If you are suggesting that reformatting in camera is somehow safer than deleting images from card using computer - then I disagree with that too.
Rob
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7. Re: How do I tell Lightroom 4 not to disconnect my card reader after an import?
skyrunr Mar 15, 2013 4:25 AM (in response to Nevada Shooter)Hello,
First of all sorry for opening and old thread. @Jeff I think your tone comes off a lot stronger than you intend it to.
Let me qualify my background. I have worked in technical support for over 25 years and have shot digital since the Nikon cp950. Five years working directly with high-end photography software and photo labs across the country.
What is good for your workflow may not be good for mine, and software is upposed to be flexible enough to allow both. Seeing the option sitting there annoys me a bit more becaues it was intentionally disabled. They could let us unlock the button with a disclaimer. I've NEVER had an import fail (knock knock). I only use Sandisk Extreme IV cards with a highspeed reader and my last two cameras have had dual card writing abilities.
A simple (easy to automate) check for incremental filenames can also verify any missing images and even by metadata if you reset your file count for each shoot. Software can easily verify a transfer before, during, and after it is performed. The auto import feature failed horribly. I also don't want ANY more of Adobe's nanny (TSR) applications running in the background. Beyond that I have a reliable enough method to recover mistakenly deleted images from my SD cards even after a format.
I happen to agree that formatting in camera regularly is a good idea. I use Sony, Canon, and Nikon gear and they each like to write extra files to the cards and have different operating systems. My Sony is particularly finicky when sharing SD cards.
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8. Re: How do I tell Lightroom 4 not to disconnect my card reader after an import?
areohbee Mar 15, 2013 4:49 AM (in response to skyrunr)skyrunr wrote:
I happen to agree that formatting in camera regularly is a good idea. I use Sony, Canon, and Nikon gear and they each like to write extra files to the cards and have different operating systems. My Sony is particularly finicky when sharing SD cards.
For the record, I've never suggested formatting cards in computer, but deleting imported files does not hurt the card (and doesn't remove any files added by in-camera formatter). Nor does such deletion preclude formatting periodically in camera, if you believe it to be worthwhile.
Regarding data loss:
- number of files lost due to formatting in camera, when I used to use Lr's native import dialog box: a few, not very many (I try to be very careful...).
- number of files lost due to using delete-after-import feature when using Ottomanic Importer and it's predecessor - exactly 0 (and I don't really have to be careful, since deletion is never offered for files that were not successfully imported and backed up).
Cheers,
Rob
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9. Re: How do I tell Lightroom 4 not to disconnect my card reader after an import?
Nevada Shooter Mar 15, 2013 10:47 AM (in response to areohbee)Personally I would never want Lightroom to delete pictures on my cards. I have had problems with imports, usually of my own making, where it just seemed simpler to delete the original import and start over and reimport the pictures. I am a firm believer in Murphy's law and so I never delete pictures from my cards (I have plenty of cards) until I have two backups of the pictures. I have had hard drives crash and I just don't want to ever be down to one copy of anything. I can't afford to recreate it all. For most people that is probably more redundancy than they feel necessary, but that is how I like it. I also agree that cards should only be formated in the camera, less chance of problems.
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10. Re: How do I tell Lightroom 4 not to disconnect my card reader after an import?
areohbee Mar 15, 2013 11:20 AM (in response to Nevada Shooter)To be clear:
* Nobody is suggesting that delete after import should be foisted upon everyone (e.g. the way not being able to delete after import is being foisted upon everyone).
* Nobody is suggesting that card should be formatted in computer, only that the option to delete imported photos, after backup and validation, should be an option.
Sorry for hijacking your thread Mr./Ms. Nevada Shooter, but skyrunr started it (and it's a big pet peeve for a lot of people ).
Rob
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11. Re: How do I tell Lightroom 4 not to disconnect my card reader after an import?
Jeff Schewe Mar 15, 2013 8:45 PM (in response to areohbee)Rob Cole wrote:
Are you suggesting there is no way to determine whether images have been succesfully imported or not? If so, then I disagree.
If Lightroom WERE to allow deleting images after import, exactly at what stage would the delete take place? After the import but before the preview creation or after the preview creation? Until you do something to force a read of the copied raw files, how do you verify the file before the original on-disk image is deleted? Do you defer the deletion till after verification?
Don't know about you, but I use cameras that capture a lot of MPs...I would not like to wait till previews are generated before removing one card and inserting another. Since LR can only import from a single card (which I wish was not so limited as I can copy multiple cards to the HD with multiple finder copies) I think this sort of workflow would suck.
I'm all for having an optimal workflow...but I understand Adobe's desire to keep people from screwing things up. When you are going from the original card to an HD, there's only a single iteration of your original digital original–which should be considered precious and delicate until you have a successful and verified copy. Until you have verified the successful copy/import, nothing should be done to that file other than making sure it's still on the card. Move from a card is stupid...
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12. Re: How do I tell Lightroom 4 not to disconnect my card reader after an import?
areohbee Mar 15, 2013 9:37 PM (in response to Jeff Schewe)Jeff Schewe wrote:
at what stage would the delete take place?
Its up to the user. He/she can delete immediately (after preliminary checking of imported file & backup copy, I mean), or after rendered images have been inspected, or not at all.
Of course, plenty of information is given, so user can make an informed decision as to which option best suits them.
(and dialog box can be omitted altogether if user knows ahead of time how he/she will want it to behave).
I don't think any of these options are stupid, as long as user knows what the potential consequences of his/her choices are, then he/she should be free to choose.
If Adobe is really paranoid, most of us would be plenty happy even if one had to edit config.lua or some some such thing to gain the freedom of choice.
R
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13. Re: How do I tell Lightroom 4 not to disconnect my card reader after an import?
Jeff Schewe Mar 15, 2013 10:02 PM (in response to areohbee)Rob Cole wrote:
If Adobe is really paranoid, most of us would be plenty happy even if one had to edit config.lua or some some such thing to gain the freedom of choice.
And, just how many people in the world would do that? I've edited .lua files...the ONLY people who might think this is a good idea would be developers (maybe), but again the question is, is this really a good idea for users?
I think not. I vote for no move but copy only and eject without deleting. Guess what will happen? Copy only, eject without deleting...do you doubt that? If you want to whip up something to work around that, it's on you...are you sure you want to be responsible in the event somebody experiences data loss? I just don't think the bennies are worth the risk. So, I doubt this will happen (no *******' way actually).
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14. Re: How do I tell Lightroom 4 not to disconnect my card reader after an import?
Nevada Shooter Mar 15, 2013 10:36 PM (in response to Jeff Schewe)The odd thing about this discussion is that if someone really wants to erase all the pictures on their card as soon as they are down loaded into Lightroom they can do it by simply removing the card from the reader, pop it into their camera and hit format. That can be done in less time than it takes to write on this thread. That would also free up the computer do do other things since it would not have to spend cycles on deleting files.
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15. Re: How do I tell Lightroom 4 not to disconnect my card reader after an import?
areohbee Mar 15, 2013 10:38 PM (in response to Jeff Schewe)I and many others want to be able to delete after importing, whether you and/or Adobe or anybody else thinks it's "stupid", or not.
I think it's "injudicious" not to offer the option for the myriad of users who would be grateful to have it.
R
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16. Re: How do I tell Lightroom 4 not to disconnect my card reader after an import?
areohbee Mar 15, 2013 11:29 PM (in response to Nevada Shooter)Nevada Shooter wrote:
The odd thing about this discussion is that if someone really wants to erase all the pictures on their card as soon as they are down loaded into Lightroom they can do it by simply removing the card from the reader, pop it into their camera and hit format. That can be done in less time than it takes to write on this thread.
It's more "imprudent" to reformat card in camera before validating imported files have been properly rendered, than it is to have computer keep track of which files are ripe for deletion, and doing so as soon as the time is perfect, rather than deferring.
I wrote a plugin that supports delete-after-import, so I never have to remember to reformat my cards anymore, but I feel sorry for those who want the feature, but don't have it. I hope that Adobe's reasons are not those being so often quoted, other-wise they have less sense than I've been giving them credit for.
Reminder: I've lost data by not having delete-after-import feature, but never by having and using it - it's safer to delete immediately upon image validation than to defer until you (potentially) forget to do it, or in the interest of not forgetting - do it too soon, or reformat the wrong card, or realize there was some file that shouldn't have been deleted...
Nevada Shooter wrote:
That would also free up the computer do do other things since it would not have to spend cycles on deleting files.
Not a significant factor - seems like you're reaching for excuses here...
Rob
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17. Re: How do I tell Lightroom 4 not to disconnect my card reader after an import?
Jeff Schewe Mar 16, 2013 12:26 AM (in response to areohbee)Rob Cole wrote:
I hope that Adobe's reasons are not those being so often quoted, other-wise they have less sense than I've been giving them credit for.
Oh, they (the engineers) have plenty of sense...others, maybe not so much.
Deleting images before verification is a bad idea. Fortunately Adobe sees this...other that take steps to circumvent this are on their own. Good luck...and don't blame Adobe if stuff blows up...however, Adobe seems pretty consistent that the only thing they will directly allow users to do is to copy images from a card. You wanna do something different, you're on your own.
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18. Re: How do I tell Lightroom 4 not to disconnect my card reader after an import?
CSS Simon Mar 16, 2013 2:33 AM (in response to Jeff Schewe)Anyone who has not lost data through hardware error, software error or user error is either very young or very lucky. A sensible approach is to treat data as extremely fragile until there are at least two copies of it. I don't format the card until the data is copied to a hard drive and backed up.
Sorry to disagree with Rob, but I don't even want the option to delete-after-import so I can't accidentally turn it on. Rob's idea of a separate plug-in that you have to install is fine, and I might grudgingly accept a deeply-buried option, provided, when you import, there's a HUGE warning saying: "YOUR FILES WILL BE DELETED FROM THE CARD AFTER IMPORT". I think it's that dangerous.
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19. Re: How do I tell Lightroom 4 not to disconnect my card reader after an import?
areohbee Mar 16, 2013 4:53 AM (in response to CSS Simon)CSS Simon wrote:
I think it's that dangerous.
Not deleting images from card after importing poses more potential for data loss - that is not just a theory, it has been my experience, and that of many others too, and you can see why if you think about it enough. Computers are quite adept at keeping track of which images have been successfully imported, and not deleting any images that haven't...
*All* imported images must be deleted from the card at some point, after importing (unless you buy a new card every time one fills up) - in my opinion, the best time to do it is immediately after it has been discerned that image has been successfully imported, rendered, and backups made...
Regarding corruption, it's easy for a computer to tell if an image file is OK, in general, but not so easy to tell if all the image data is OK. As it stands, Lr software is making the determination implicitly, without asking, that the image data in a raw file is not corrupt, when it converts it to DNG upon import. If the raw data was corrupt upon import, then if a good file is subsequently read, the good file would be considered corrupt, due to checkcode mismatch. Thus Lr would allow you to edit the corrupt image, but only if not replaced by a good version of it. A better strategy would be to ask the user after import - are all of these images OK? (e.g. no funny stripes or rectangles), if so, then convert to DNG, and compute the check codes over them for future corruption detection, and delete them from card if that option is enabled, and user has approved the rendered images and the prompt.
While I'm at it, there is no good reason not to compute integrity check codes for proprietary raw and jpegs too... - that omission is another pet peeve of mine.
Rob
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20. Re: How do I tell Lightroom 4 not to disconnect my card reader after an import?
Nevada Shooter Mar 16, 2013 9:35 AM (in response to areohbee)I have never lost data because I did not delete it. To have Lightroom do an automatic delete after import, you would want it to have an ironclad, fail proof way of verifying the download went correctly. To do that would require two way communication and buffering on the card reader or camera you are using to download from that I am not sure they have. I see this as a solution looking for a problem, high risk with no discernable benefit. I see no advantage to using DNG either. It uses more space and loses some of the metadata too. You are also assuming Adobe will always interpret the RAW data correctly. I have sometimes used Canon Digital Professional when Adobe could not get it right. I prefer storing the original file.
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21. Re: How do I tell Lightroom 4 not to disconnect my card reader after an import?
skyrunr Mar 16, 2013 12:32 PM (in response to Nevada Shooter)We're not talking about artificial intelligence or even the slightest bit of development. The feature is already there but is disabled. You always have the OPTION to not use it. I did point out that I have dual memory cards which covers and failed transfer. For another level or protection I could even put in a wifi card in and keep a laptop going nearby. The chances of all three failing would be slim to none. Unless maybe the camera messes up writing the files in the first place.
You are far more likely to lose your data after it is transferred to your computer regardless. Maybe quoting stome solid statistics on how many files are lost due to a failed transfer on professional grade equipment would sway me. However, I'd likely avoid any brands at the top of those results.
I am unchanged and want the feature. Lets move on and go shoot some photos!
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22. Re: How do I tell Lightroom 4 not to disconnect my card reader after an import?
areohbee Mar 16, 2013 7:11 PM (in response to Nevada Shooter)Nevada Shooter wrote:
I have never lost data because I did not delete it.
And I have never lost data due to a corrupted transfer.
I agree this topic has been beaten to death, umpteen million times - and the bottom line is always the same: some people would not want to use such an option, others would...
Rob
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23. Re: How do I tell Lightroom 4 not to disconnect my card reader after an import?
trshaner Mar 17, 2013 8:56 AM (in response to areohbee)I just ran across this post and have no-axe-to-grind on either side of this issue.
What hasn't been mentioned here are the actual "financial" consequences of leaving images on a memory card (i.e. card in limbo)? Obviously this means you will need more than one (1) memory card, which I'm sure is already the case for most LR users.
If we compare the cost per image for memory card storage versus film, the price point is about the same:
36 exposure roll 35mm color negative film = ~$3.00 ÷ 36 = ~$.08 per image
16GB SanDisk Extreme 400x CF card = ~$50 ÷ (16,000/25) = ~$.08 per image
(Assuming 25 MB image files, excluding processing costs)
Unlike film the actual cost per image with memory cards drops significantly over the life of the card, which I'll very conservatively put at 500 card usages.
~$.08 per image first shoot÷500 = ~$.00016 per image
The actual cost per image over the life of the card with only 500 usages works out to about $.16 per 1,000 25 MB images.
Would you spend 16 cents for “temporary backup” of 1,000 perhaps irreplaceable images until confirmed not corrupted during transfer to your hard drive and a second backup drive? I think so!
Another side benefit of using additional memory cards and retiring them earlier to the trash is that it reduces the likelihood of catastrophic failure and image loss:
MTBF (Mean Time Between Failure) ÷ Actual Usage = MTTF (Mean Time To Failure)
Actually determining when you should replace a memory card and how you track its usage should be discussed in a new post.
IMHO, this strengthens the case of holding-off on deleting images or reformatting your memory card right after import into LR. Now go buy some more memory cards! (Disclaimer: I do not own any memory company stock.)


