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1. Re: Process to Spot
Mike Gondek2 Mar 26, 2013 6:33 AM (in response to mhossey)Sometimes you will need to print this logo in spot and other times in process. You should therefore choose BOTH a spot color for this logo , and a CMYK equivalent.
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2. Re: Process to Spot
John Danek Mar 26, 2013 9:03 AM (in response to mhossey)You are thinking in the right direction. But, like Mike has said, there will be applications where you will need CMYK, even RGB data. However, for the purposes of stationery, Spot colors are more desirable because you will maintain consistency. Process color jobs can deviate depending on the mood of the press operator, humidity, paper, and temperature. At times, CMYK can drift on-press ( i.e., center of the sheet vs. corners, etc. ). Now, I realize it is easy to assign process colors in Illustrator and a bit harder to assign Spot color(s). Try to get in the habit of working in reverse, Spot color assigned first, process color assigned after.
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3. Re: Process to Spot
mhossey Mar 26, 2013 10:02 AM (in response to John Danek)Great advice thank you both, I also know the CMYK colors will help in printing costs as well, esp when the church is working with a smaller budget. I do like the idea of working in reverse, a little more work but probably worth it. Thank you for the insight
Ok so what about the method I spoke of in the first paragraph. Choosing a CMYK value and then converting it to a spot color. After the conversion, is this once seemingly CMYK color now REALLY a spot color? Will it be recognized by printers as a spot color? If so then what would be the point to ever using the pantone books AI provides when I can generate my own PMS colors? How does this newly defined spot color work with printing; AI pantone books have colors for coated, uncoated etc... specific to the type of paper being used, where would this newly defined spot color fall as far as pantone books are concerned?
Lots of questions about this, hopefully you all know the answer!
Here are pics to show the method I used.
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4. Re: Process to Spot
John Danek Mar 26, 2013 10:09 AM (in response to mhossey)No. Doing it that way is wrong. The whole point of the Pantone Matching System is consistency. If you were to create your own spot color willy nilly, then there is no consistency and no real reference to a real Spot color. Another thing to consider. Process colors are semi transparent so they can be over printed one on top of the other in an additive color scenario. Spot colors are opaque. They can be screened down ( tints ), but are meant to be stand alone color. You can overprint spot colors, but that would be a special application, such as over-printing Black.
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5. Re: Process to Spot
mhossey Mar 26, 2013 1:31 PM (in response to John Danek)Ok that makes more sense now. So I guess my follow up question to this would be: Why did AI include the option to convert process to spot? What benefits are their to using a conversion option like this? Surely it must serve some purpose other than creating "non real" spot colors
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6. Re: Process to Spot
John Danek Mar 26, 2013 2:13 PM (in response to mhossey)In special applications where you may want to create a "custom color" such as a flourescent or metallic color outside of the CMYK, but could be added as a fifth color and separated separately from the CMYK colors but still contained inside of the same file. This gets a little confusing. Let's say you have a file that includes a dieline. To indicate the die, you could build a custom spot color of 100% Magenta but call it dieline instead of Magenta. When the file is output as separations, the dieline will come out on its own plate or be used in a CAD application which can use the separate fill to build a dieline cut file. Or, you want to print a 5th color for a special effect. You can build a 100% Magenta spot color, but name it Metallic Gold. You could build it in the color palette and save it as a spot color which would ultimately be output as a single plate in the print process. Sort of an "option" because you could do the same thing just by naming the artwork using a Spot Color via the Window > Color Books > Pantone Matching System where you can apply a spot color that will ultimately print out as a spot color on its own plate in the print process. Most print vendors would rather work that way, where Pantone colors are easily identified and can, therefore be interpreted correctly so as to eliminate any miscommunications. Another application where custom colors may output correctly is silkscreen where you can rename a custom color as a separate screen and often is referred to ( the color ) outside the process color environment, such as plastisol inks which cannot be specified because there are no color charts inside Illustrator for silkscreen inks.
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7. Re: Process to Spot
JETalmage Mar 27, 2013 8:48 AM (in response to mhossey)No. Doing it that way is wrong. The whole point of the Pantone Matching System is consistency. If you were to create your own spot color willy nilly, then there is no consistency and no real reference to a real Spot color...
M,
The above is utter nonsense.
When you create a Spot Color Swatch, all you are doing is creating another separation plate that will be labeled with that Swatch's name. The image on that separation plate is going to be black, just like it is for any other separation plate, be it process or spot.
The only thing that makes a separation plate labeled "Pantone 124c" match Pantone 124c ink is that the pressman is going to physically load Pantone 124c-colored ink in the press. THAT's where the consistency comes from—the simple fact that the color of the physical ink is standardized. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with what you do to that Swatch, or how or when you create it in Illustrator.
You could, for example, mix up a process color in Illustrator that looks like lime green on your screen in Illustrator, store it as a Swatch, designate that Swatch as a Spot Color, and re-name the Swatch "Pantone 124c". So long as the press man loads Pantone 124c ink into the press (which is what the color separation plate will be instructing him to do), it will not print lime green; it will print every bit as much Pantone 124c as if you had selected the Pantone 124c swatch from the built-in Pantone Swatch Library.
And there is absolutely nothing wrong with working that way. For decades, I have routinely mixed my own color swatches and named them according to the spot color ink with which it will be printed. I do this because I often find other process values to be a better match on-screen and/or on a composite printer and/or even in CMYK process than the simulations which Pantone recommends. You can try this yourself. Take an actual, physical Pantone-published spot color swatch book. Randomly select a color. Hold it against an actual, physical PostScript process color swatch book and find the process swatch that your eye tells you is the closest match. Then compare its CMYK component values to those recommended by the Pantone book. Often, you'll find that what you perceive as a better match is significantly different.
I also do it because I routinely use spot colors other than Pantone's. I may build a Spot Color Swatch to simulate the appearance of particular Nazdar screen printing inks, or 3M sign vinyls, or automotive paints, or whatever. Illustrator doesn't even have built-in "spot color libraries" for those spot colors. Does that mean that Illustrator can't be used for work involving them? Of course not. That would be absurd.
For just one real-world example: Suppose I've done an identity graphic design for a client, and specified Pantone 185 as the official logo spot color. I would specify 100M 100Y as that client's official logo process color, even though that differs from what Pantone recommends as its "match." Fact is, the printed process red just looks bolder if it's not screened. Fact is, there are few actual "matches" between spot inks and process. So I decide to opt for a better "match" in terms of brighness and vividness and "solidness", rather than merely in terms of color.
...I also know the CMYK colors will help in printing costs as well...
Typically, spot color is used to reduce printing cost, simply because most spot color offset printing jobs involve fewer inks. For example, you can't even print a job involving black and red in process by using only two inks. With spot color, you can, and there is no tint screening involved. Historically, spot color was used to minimize printing costs.
Ok so what about the method I spoke of in the first paragraph. Choosing a CMYK value and then converting it to a spot color.
That's perfectly okay. I (and doubtless many others) do it all the time.
After the conversion, is this once seemingly CMYK color now REALLY a spot color?
Yes. If you redefine an existing Swatch as Spot Color, it will really become a spot color separation. Just check your separations preview and you will see it listed. Don't think so much in terms of "color"; think in terms of INKs. That' s really what you are dealing with. When you create a Spot Color Swatch (or redefine an existing Swatch as Spot Color), you are telling Illustrator that there is a separate ink that will be used on-press associated with that Swatch.
Now, understand…in Illustrator, you have to bear in mind its stupid "Global" setting for Swatches. So if you have been building a design using a particular process Swatch that is not set to "Global" and then later decide to change that Swatch to Spot Color, the objects to which you have already applied that Swatch are not going to update. You will have to re-apply the Spot Color Swatch to those objects after that Swatch has become "Global". (Spot Swatches are always "Global").
Will it be recognized by printers as a spot color?
Yes. The printer prints color separations from your file. An individual separation image prints for each ink. That's each process ink used in your file and each spot ink used in your file. The actual image on each separation film is black. The actual ink color is purely a matter of the actual ink that the pressman loads into his press. If the separation film says "Pantone 124", that's the ink that the pressman loads.
If so then what would be the point to ever using the pantone books AI provides when I can generate my own PMS colors?
It's really for nothing but convenience. You don't HAVE to have a physical, printed Pantone swatch book at your desk to select Pantone spot colors (although it's certainly a good idea to do so), and you don't HAVE to build a simulation of a Pantone ink color by using the sliders in Illustrator's Color palette (although it's perfectly alright for you to do so).
How does this newly defined spot color work with printing; AI pantone books have colors for coated, uncoated etc...
No, ILLUSTRATOR doesn't "have" those libraries; Pantone provides them to Adobe to incorporate into Illustrator. But every one of them is nothing but a SIMULATION.
Consider, for example, an ink like Pantone 874c. What you get as an onscreen simulation of that ink looks NOTHING LIKE Pantone 874c. It can't. Pantone 874c is a metallic ink. There's no way any uniform combination of RGB values is going to make your monitor able to even remotely mimic the appearance of a metallic ink. And guess what?: There's no way any uniform combination of CMYK ink dot percentages are going to do it on paper, either. See the point? It's JUST a rough color simulation. Which RGB or CMYK values you use for a spot ink simulation has nothing technically to do with the color of the ink that actually gets loaded into the press.
Consider also: One aspect of acceptable color in process printing is the matter of screen angle. If you use tints or grads of your spot colors, those inks are going to have to be either tint screened or halftone screened. The fact that they are spot inks doesn't change that. You wouldn't want to, for example, print a graduated Pantone 123 (yellow) object that overlaps a graduated Pantone 185 (red) object at the same screen angles. That would be as inadvisable as printing process yellow at the same angle as process magenta. If the system was so "smart" as you assume, passing all kinds of colorimetric information about specific spot colors, then why would all spot color separations default to 45°? It would be ridiculous to expect Illustrator to automatically keep track of what screening angle should be used for each spot color in its various provided "book" libraries. All spot colors default to 45°, and it's up to you to decide the angles at which they should print (if they are not printed as only solids). This is because all spot colors are the same thing: just an instruction to send objects to which a given spot color is applied to a different color separation plate.
...specific to the type of paper being used, where would this newly defined spot color fall...
Pantone spot color inks, like most any inks, look different when printed on coated stock as opposed to uncoated stock. So Pantone provides separate swatch libraries of SIMULATIONs to attempt to SIMULATE that visible difference—as best it can—on your monitor. But your monitor is neither "coated" nor "uncoated" paper. It's a sheet of plastic with glowing phosphors behind it. And guess what: Many Pantone spot color inks also look quite different when printed on uncoated sheetfed white stock from how they look when printed on uncoated web-fed newsprint. Adjustments for that are the dot gain curves that are applied when the AI file is imaged--and it has nothing to do with how you have defined your spot color Swatches.
JET




