22 Replies Latest reply: Apr 4, 2013 12:00 AM by Astara_ RSS

    Confused about color profile support in PNG

    Astara_ Community Member

      NOTE -- you have to hover over the image to see the real images.  The images embedded in the webpage have their profiles stripped -- just like photoshop does!  Interesting.

       

       

       

      I ask a similar question on this before, but couldn't give a satisfactory demonstration of how photoshop doesn't support color profiles in png's.

       

      But now I have a great one.

       

      Picture A: this is with the correct color profile and displays correctly in firefox and probably other browsers -- also displays correctly on windows desktop and in large-icon view.  png-color-profile-test.png

       

       

      Ok, anyone who doesn't believe me, grab that image and try to read it into photoshop...

       

      I do, and get no warning on profile mismatch like I do on jpg's or tiff's:

       

      photoshop strips the existing profile and adds sRGB which isn't the correct profile.

       

      This is how photoshop transforms good colors into bad:

       

      Photoshop not handling profile.png

       

       

      Completly screwed up.

       

      I have had multiple people notice how my png saved images from photoshop had "off" or bad colors -- usually washed out in comparison w/my monitor profile.

       

      I can get 'ok' results if I flatten the image and *convert* my existing profile to sRGB -- and I usually get

      something that looks 'acceptable'...though the jpg's render in accurate color.

       

      Basically, photoshop can't read or write png web images. and maintain color fidelity unless they have no profile.  Even if they have an sRGB profile, I usually get washed out looking pics if I don't strip it but let adobe convert it.

       

      In googling for my own problem, I found references to this problem in Adobe Photoshop going back to 2002.

       

      Why does adobe refuse to fix this?  It's horrible.

       

      They could fix it with a file plugin for existing CS5-6 users, but it really needs to get fixed and Adobe needs to stop ignoring this problem.

       

      :-(  I find this extra depressing because I prefer to distribute my pictures losslessly in png,  but with photoshop, I'm left with lossy jpegs to get accurate color reproduction.

        • 1. Re: Can Adobe be fixed to support color profile png's?
          Chris Cox Adobe Employee

          png-color-profile-test.png opens just fine in Photoshop CS6, CS5, CS4, and CS3.

          And they save it with the profile and reopen it correctly as well.

           

          The profile might be stripped if you use a third party PNG plugin, or if you have your color settings set to ignore profiles.

          • 2. Re: Can Adobe be fixed to support color profile png's?
            Noel Carboni Community Member

            Don't I recall that File - Save As - PNG saves the profile while File - Save For Web - Png doesn't?

             

            -Noel

            • 3. Re: Can Adobe be fixed to support color profile png's?
              Lundberg02 Community Member

              There's no difference between the images in the post.

              • 4. Re: Can Adobe be fixed to support color profile png's?
                Astara_ Community Member

                Did you see the message at the top?

                 

                You need to hover over them in firefox ... well maybe you don't have

                image profiles turned on... or such... um.....

                (if you use firefox)

                in about:config you need to have color management turned on:

                gfx.color_management.mode integer 2

                gfx.color_management.rendering_intent integer 0

                + ideally correct profile for your monitor in

                gfx.color_management.display_profile  string=C:\windows\system32\spool\drivers\color\<your profile.icm>

                 

                Supposedly Chrome also works.

                • 5. Re: Can Adobe be fixed to support color profile png's?
                  Chris Cox Adobe Employee

                  Save For Web saves the profile if you tell it to save the profile (default to no profile, no metadata).

                  And Save As... PNG saves the profile unless you disable it in the save dialog.

                  • 6. Re: Can Adobe be fixed to support color profile png's?
                    Astara_ Community Member

                    I was doing file save as......

                     

                    Unfortunately, this does not show the image washing out / lack of depth problem I was trying to show last time.   This was purely a plugin problem that stripped the profile.  Once that was disabled, I got the message "Embedded Profile Mismatch" that pop's up when there's any profile on the pic other than my monitor's...

                     

                     

                    I also verified that using the embedded profile and saving works correctly.

                     

                    That being said, I still find I need to convert png's from my monitor profile to sRGB for them to look even close to as as accurate in Windows or FF as they do in CS5.

                     

                    Jpgs and tiffs don't have this problem, so I'm still at a loss, as going through an extra step of converting to a poopy profile just to get it to look the same as jpg's and tiffs with good profiles is a pain. 

                     

                    So I just just go need to get the toenail clippings out of my mouth now that I'm getting my foot out of my mouth....*ahem*...

                    *sigh*...

                    • 7. Re: Can Adobe be fixed to support color profile png's?
                      conroy Community Member

                      Chris Cox wrote:

                       

                      Save For Web saves the profile if you tell it to save the profile (default to no profile, no metadata).

                       

                      No, Save For Web does not save the profile in PNG, and when you choose PNG in the SFW dialog, the Embed Color Profile checkbox vanishes from the dialog.

                       

                      The OP will be working with a wider gamut than sRGB in Photoshop then using SFW to export to PNG and therefore with no profile. The browsers/viewers will assume the profile-lacking images are sRGB and therefore they will look washed-out in comparison to how they looked in Photoshop.

                      • 8. Re: Can Adobe be fixed to support color profile png's?
                        Astara_ Community Member

                        conroy wrote:

                         

                        The OP will be working with a wider gamut than sRGB in Photoshop then using SFW to export to PNG and therefore with no profile. The browsers/viewers will assume the profile-lacking images are sRGB and therefore they will look washed-out in comparison to how they looked in Photoshop.

                        ----

                             I save them in the same way I save jpg's and tiff's -- it asks me on those if I want to save a profile with them or not.  I would assume that with png there is no choice it embeds my working monitor profile automatically. 

                         

                             If that's not the case, then that's an obvious bug.

                        • 9. Re: Can Adobe be fixed to support color profile png's?
                          Chris Cox Adobe Employee

                          SFW has offered ICC profiles in PNG for a while now.

                          Are you using something much older than CS6?

                           

                          SFWPNG.png

                          • 10. Re: Can Adobe be fixed to support color profile png's?
                            Chris Cox Adobe Employee

                            No, Photoshop embeds the document profile.

                            The only time it could embed a monitor profile is if you set your RGB workingspace to your monitor profile and disabled loading of existing profiles in documents.  (because embedding the monitor profile is usually a mistake)

                            • 11. Re: Can Adobe be fixed to support color profile png's?
                              conroy Community Member

                              I use CS6 and its SFW definitely does not embed a profile in PNG.

                               

                              You said in August 2012 that SFW does not embed the profile in PNG:

                               

                              Screen shot 2013-04-03 at 18.35.33.png

                               

                               

                              This is my SFW plug-in version according to Help > System Info:

                               

                              Save for Web 13.0, Copyright © 1999-2012 Adobe Systems Incorporated - from the file “Save for Web.plugin”

                               

                               

                              Here is my SFW dialog with no Embed Color Profile checkbox when PNG-24 is the format:

                               

                              Screen shot 2013-04-03 at 18.39.37.png

                              • 12. Re: Can Adobe be fixed to support color profile png's?
                                Astara_ Community Member

                                CS5.  I reported the problem in CS5, AFAIK it hasn't been fixed.  I see nothing like the dialog you have -- it only asks 'interlaced or not' (FSA) -- just tried to save my cur doc to web, it says:

                                 

                                The image exceeds the size Save for Web & Devices was designed for.  You may experience out of memory errors and slow performance.  Are you sure you want to continue.

                                 

                                So, I don't think it's been fixed and AFAIK I have the latest update for CS5.

                                • 13. Re: Can Adobe be fixed to support color profile png's?
                                  Astara_ Community Member

                                  How did the SFW thing even come up??  When I embed profiles in jpg and tiff, I do it as part of the File Save or File Save As dialog.  I can choose what profile to save it with -- and I usually save it with my currently calibrated monitor profile -- as that color profile is what was used to create the picture.  Why would I want to convert them to some other profile??  Only thing I have needed to convert have been PNG's because it doesn't embed my monitor profile in the PNG the same way jpg and tiff do.

                                   

                                  If it did, png's would look the same as jpgs and tiffs... but the jpgs and tiffs have the full depth of color and look the same as they do in PS.  png's look washed out because -- it's been my belief that PS is not storing my profile in the png, but setting a bit in the file to use the sRGB profile. 

                                   

                                  AFAIK, PNG provided for a sRGB profile-compat bit -- so images that were compat w/that profile could just set a bit rather than including a profile.  I see no evidence that PS is saving my monitor profile with the PNG.

                                   

                                  My 'settings' for RGB are to convert to working RGB profile which is my monitor profile.

                                   

                                  I do have it set to ask me abou profile mismatches on opening or pasting.

                                   

                                  Since I don't get a 'this document has a different color profile than the working space'

                                  message when I edit most png's, I assume it has none.  Thus from my settings

                                  it should autoconvert it to my monitor profile and save that on save -- which seems to be what happens when I save as jpg or tiff (or I can check off the box to save profile...but I usually don't).

                                  • 14. Re: Can Adobe be fixed to support color profile png's?
                                    Chris Cox Adobe Employee

                                    It was an oversight, fixed in the later releases of CS6.

                                    • 15. Re: Can Adobe be fixed to support color profile png's?
                                      conroy Community Member

                                      Chris Cox wrote:

                                       

                                      It was an oversight, fixed in the later releases of CS6.

                                       

                                      Thanks

                                      • 16. Re: Can Adobe be fixed to support color profile png's?
                                        conroy Community Member

                                        Astara_ wrote:

                                         

                                        How did the SFW thing even come up??

                                         

                                        SFW came up because its lack of profile embedding when exporting PNG (until a very recent version which you do not have) was one explanation for your problem of exported PNGs looking different to the original documents in Photoshop. Since we now know that you don't use SFW, nobody need mention it again in this thread.

                                        • 17. Re: Can Adobe be fixed to support color profile png's?
                                          Noel Carboni Community Member

                                          Chris Cox wrote:

                                           

                                          SFW has offered ICC profiles in PNG for a while now.

                                           

                                          NO, it hasn't, not for perpetual license holders on Windows, who still only have the option of updating to 13.0.1.

                                           

                                          Apparently that bit of functionality was added to Photoshop CS6 in 13.1, as I do see it in 13.1.2.

                                           

                                          -Noel

                                          • 18. Re: Can Adobe be fixed to support color profile png's?
                                            Chris Cox Adobe Employee

                                            Hmm, I tried 13.0.4 - which probably means it was released with 13.0.2, and yes, Windows perpetual users are left out of that fix.  Sigh.  Even I'm getting confused about these versions.

                                            • 19. Re: Can Adobe be fixed to support color profile png's?
                                              Lundberg02 Community Member

                                              Why  on earth would you save an image with a monitor profile?   Is anyone else going to see it?

                                              • 20. Re: Can Adobe be fixed to support color profile png's?
                                                Noel Carboni Community Member

                                                Chris Cox wrote:

                                                 

                                                Hmm, I tried 13.0.4 - which probably means it was released with 13.0.2, and yes, Windows perpetual users are left out of that fix.  Sigh.  Even I'm getting confused about these versions.

                                                 

                                                Can't say I blame you.

                                                 

                                                It would be nice if Adobe would ultimately release all the bugfixes to PC users with perpetual licenses.

                                                 

                                                -Noel

                                                • 21. Re: Can Adobe be fixed to support color profile png's?
                                                  c.pfaffenbichler Community Member

                                                  It would be nice if Adobe would ultimately release all the bugfixes to PC users with perpetual licenses.

                                                  But then you might never switch to Cloud Licensing, wouldn’t you?

                                                  • 22. Re: Can Adobe be fixed to support color profile png's?
                                                    Astara_ Community Member

                                                    If you wanted any new features, you'd do something to upgrade (a new perpetual at some point when they have new features you can't live w/o).  But bugfixes for broken functionality .. um... only slightly less shady than witholding security bugfixes...