22 Replies Latest reply: Apr 11, 2013 12:27 PM by Semaphoric RSS

    I need help with making multiple measurements

    Jave090 Community Member

      Hello,

         I have photoshop cs6 extended addition and was told photoshop would work for the research application I need but so far I am finding it very difficult to do what I want.  Basically, I need to be able to meausre multiple lines (the red ones in the screen shot) of an image precisely, and make sure that the lines I measure are documented so that they are actually visiable (so not just with the ruler tool) on the screen and labeled.  Does anyone have any idea how to approach this problem?  See image for example.  I need the lengths (converted with the 2 micrometer scale at the bottom of the image).  When I use the info, it gives me the lengths, but I can't save them, or look them up at a different time.  Also, when using the line tool, then doing the "record measurement" it does not give me the length of the line but insted acts like it is a thin rectangle and gives me a height (which does not seem to be the same as if I used the measurement tool and put it next to the line, which is an idea I have, but not as accurate) and a width.  Ideas?

       

        lines.jpg

        • 1. Re: I need help with making multiple measurements
          Curt Y Community Member

          If all the pictures are the same size you could make your own scale and add as a layer.  You could then move and rotate to measure each line.  With text tool you could enter measurement.

          • 2. Re: I need help with making multiple measurements
            Jave090 Community Member

            What do you mean if all pictures are the same size?  Do you mean if all LINES are the same size?  If so, the answer to that is no.  They are all different, thats why they need to be measured.  So I am not sure how to do what you are saying

            • 3. Re: I need help with making multiple measurements
              Curt Y Community Member

              At the bottom of the picture shown you have a scale of 2 microns.  If all pictures shot have the same scale you could make one scale of say 10 microns and save it.  Then you could add this scale as a seperate layer to each picture when you measure it.  By rotating and moving the layer you could measure each line.  Then use the Text function to write down that measurement.

              • 4. Re: I need help with making multiple measurements
                Curt Y Community Member

                If the pictures are a little different scale you could still do as above but just stretch or shrink the saved scale image to fit the scale of the current picture.

                • 5. Re: I need help with making multiple measurements
                  Jave090 Community Member

                  I appoligize, but I am still very new to all this so I am not up with all the terminology.  What do you mean by "all pictures?"  In the example I sent you there is only one "picture" (the background SEM picture with the scale of 2 microns) and then I have to make many measurements on that ONE PICTURE of the different needles (lengths represented by those red lines). 

                   

                  What steps do I take to make "one scale of say 10 microns and save it?"  Why 10, since 2 microns is the actual calabration on the picture

                  What steps do I take to "add this scale as a seperate layer to each picture when you measure it"

                  What do you mean when saying, "by rotating and moving the layer (which layer?) you could measure each line"  I want the actual digital measurement of the line (like in the measurement log) so I don't get what your saying.

                   

                  Sorry that I suck at this but thanks!

                  • 6. Re: I need help with making multiple measurements
                    charles badland Community Member

                    You can use the Ruler Tool to measure each line, then record that measurement. But you'll have to do that one at a time. This will record length (to what ever you have the Ruler set to). You can export that data to from the image to a spread sheet.

                    I don't think there is an automatic way to make those measurements visible on the image... maybe it could be scripted?

                     

                    here is a short video on setting Analysis Ruler Tool to scale of the image and recording them:

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J93pKIOV40

                    • 7. Re: I need help with making multiple measurements
                      Jave090 Community Member

                      Thanks Charles, but the problem with this is that by using the ruler tool, I am having to try and match the line I create with the tool to be the exact length of the original line I drew, insted of just automatically giving me the length of the line I drew.  Does that make sense?

                      • 8. Re: I need help with making multiple measurements
                        conroy Community Member

                        You could open your image into a CAD app, define the scale, draw lines on a layer above the image and have the app annotate the lines with their lengths.

                        • 9. Re: I need help with making multiple measurements
                          Curt Y Community Member

                          I assumed you would be viewing dozens of pictures of the same kind, rather than just one in your lifetime.  Therefore I suggested making a scale long enough to measure everything.

                           

                          To make a scale here is one way. 

                           

                          1. Take the picutre and make a selection with the marque tool of the picture a little longer than the scale needed.  Do a ctrl C and V to copy and paste.

                           

                          2. Click New and it will open a window with the dimensions of the above selection.  For title use Micron Scale.  In background content click the dropdown box and select Transparent.

                           

                          3.  Now in original picuture you can delete the selection you made in step 1 (drag it to trash in lower corner).

                           

                          4.  Make your scale by drawing line and adding hash marks.  Use Save As when finished.

                           

                          5.  Click on Move tool (1st icon) then click on scale, then drag it onto the picture (it will not move but cursor changes).

                           

                          6.  To measure click Ctrl T and you can move and rotate.  You have to have the scale layer selected to do this.

                           

                          7. To add dimension click on Text icon.

                           

                          Hope this helps.

                          • 10. Re: I need help with making multiple measurements
                            Jave090 Community Member

                            Conroy, That seems like a potential solution, but I don't know what a CAD app is or how to use it.  Any chance you can help me through this step by step?

                            • 11. Re: I need help with making multiple measurements
                              Curt Y Community Member

                              If you have problems making a scale with all the hash marks you could find a photo of a scale and overlay the transparent Scale photo and then draw on the hash marks.  Use a black, small 100% hardness brush.

                              • 12. Re: I need help with making multiple measurements
                                Jave090 Community Member

                                Curt,

                                   I tried what you said but am still confused.  First, while I will be viewing a few pictures, I am just concerned with getting the process to work with ONE picture measuring all the lines I need for it before worrying about other pictures.  I don't understand what you mean when you say making a scale for each picture of any size.  Its not about plotting a scale on the picture (I already have that in the form of the 2 micron line) its a matter of drawing new lines on top of the picture and calculating the lengths of those lines (like the red lines I put in the original screen shot).  Do you understand?

                                 

                                After I make the box around the 2 micron scale in the image, then press copy then press paste, nothing seems to happen.  So when I Click NEW and it opens a new window (for a completely new workspace) nothing different happens.  You meant to click "New" after first going to the top and selecting "file" right?

                                 

                                Since I am having trouble with that step, im not sure I can do the rest.

                                 

                                For step 2, What do you mean by "In background content click the dropdown box and select Transparent."   ALl I see is a layer called background on the right.  I can right click on it and set the opacity to 0, but I don't see the term 'transparent' to actually select.

                                 

                                Like for step three, how could I delete the selection I made by dragging to the trash?  Once I press on it, it resets.....

                                 

                                Ok not sure whatelse I can ask since I couldn't really do the first step anyways....

                                • 13. Re: I need help with making multiple measurements
                                  Curt Y Community Member

                                  Did you make a selection with the marque tool?  Use the rectangle one and draw the box to a little larger than the scale needed.   What I am attempting is making a scale so you can move and rotate it be parallel with each line.  Kind of like having a scale in your hand and placing it on the screen over the lines.

                                   

                                  In the New box (file/new) the background content is about 1/2 way down the window.  If you do not make it transparent you will not be able to see your lines.

                                   

                                  To delete the layer in step three go to layers panel, click on it with mouse, hold, and drag to trash.

                                  • 14. Re: I need help with making multiple measurements
                                    Curt Y Community Member

                                    You can not use the scale on the picture as it can not be moved over the lines.  It is there for reference and can be used to make the movable scale.  The intent of saving the scale is that it can then be used on other pictures without having to make one each time.

                                    • 15. Re: I need help with making multiple measurements
                                      Curt Y Community Member

                                      Jave090 wrote:

                                       

                                       

                                      After I make the box around the 2 micron scale in the image, then press copy then press paste, nothing seems to happen.  So when I Click NEW and it opens a new window (for a completely new workspace) nothing different happens.  You meant to click "New" after first going to the top and selecting "file" right?

                                       

                                      Yes, this just sets the opening dimensions of the New window.  An unnecessay step but for a newbie eliminates a trial an error method of how big the window should be.  These instructions are a little harder than they appear as you seem to really out of your elememt in Photoshop.  You might see if you company will allow you time to do some online tutorials covering the basics so you can do your job faster. 

                                      • 16. Re: I need help with making multiple measurements
                                        Jave090 Community Member

                                        Yeah, we are definitely one different pages here.  I will not be able to "make a scale" that is accurate enough that I rotate it next to the lines and use THAT to measure it (and even if I did, it takes too long and isn't as accurate).  I want to figure out how to use photoshops analysis to just calculate the actual length of the original line that I did draw.  Like I wish I could "draw" a line but insted of using the line tool, it was the ruler.  I would want to draw it so that the line STAYED on the picture (and was not eliminated when I wanted to repeat the task) so that I am able to have more and more lines on the picture, each one with a seperate meausrement (think I am trying to measure the length of all of those white needles in the background picture, the red lines are just examples of what I am trying to do).  Does this make sense.

                                         

                                        Regarding your other idea, I used the marque tool and copied and pasted it.  I "made" a line by tracing the original scale, but then can't move it.  It doesn't mater though as this is not what I need to do.  Any suggestion on the first part?

                                         

                                        David

                                        • 17. Re: I need help with making multiple measurements
                                          charles badland Community Member

                                          Here is a solution, it just involves a little math.

                                           

                                          Draw out your lines with the Line Tool. Right click on the lines and choose to turn their Paths into selections.

                                          Target your background layer. (All your lines should now have "marching ants" around them.)

                                          Record the Measurements. (Ignore the first one generated as it is just a composite of all recordings)

                                           

                                          Now,

                                          think of each line as a hypotenuse of a right triangle, and its recorded Width and Height as the a and b sides of the triangle. Using A squared + B squared = C squared formula for a right triangle will get you the exact length of the lines.

                                           

                                          Now just plug in the numbers into the formula and Wham Bam you have the visible lines, you have their exact length and records on a spread sheet.

                                           

                                          (who said middle school geometry was useless....)

                                          • 18. Re: I need help with making multiple measurements
                                            Curt Y Community Member

                                            Read this link on the measuring tool. Perhaps this will work for you.  http://www.webdesign.org/photoshop/articles/measuring-tools-in-photoshop.6115.html

                                            • 19. Re: I need help with making multiple measurements
                                              conroy Community Member

                                              Jave090 wrote:

                                               

                                              Conroy, That seems like a potential solution, but I don't know what a CAD app is or how to use it.  Any chance you can help me through this step by step?

                                               

                                              I've sent a private message.

                                              • 20. Re: I need help with making multiple measurements
                                                Jave090 Community Member

                                                Charles, that actually worked really good.  Thanks SO MUCH!!!

                                                • 21. Re: I need help with making multiple measurements
                                                  charles badland Community Member

                                                  I gather there was some doubt...

                                                  I honestly would have never thought of that if not for helping my 6th grader with his geometry homework last week.

                                                  But, I agree, it would be very handy if the Analysis menu allowed you to record  data from drawn Lines like it does from Ruler Tool measurements. I know the researchers where I work would like that feature.

                                                  • 22. Re: I need help with making multiple measurements
                                                    Semaphoric Community Member

                                                    Andromeda Software has a Measurement plugin (http://www.andromeda.com/main/measurement.php). It's kind of pricey and quite dated (see the screen shots). I tried out the demo last year (CS4 / Vista) and it seemed to work OK; but the demo will only work on a "special" image that you download along with the demo. You need to purchase to use it on anything else, and I didn't think it was cost effective. It does a lot of handy stuff, though.

                                                     

                                                    It's not listed on their "Compatabiltity" page, so I don't know if it works with CS6.