14 Replies Latest reply: Apr 12, 2013 12:52 PM by thedigitaldog RSS

    Printing with Lightroom versus Photoshop ...

    AttilaHan Community Member

      I don't have a printer now, but I'm thinking to buy an Epson Stylus Pro ... and for my prospective print jobs, I have a question for printing gurus ...

       

      Ceteris paribus ... are there any difference between photographs printed with Lightroom and printed with Photoshop from a .tiff file, 16 bit and in ProphotoRGB? If so, which programme do you prefer for your fine art works?

       

      Thanks a lot.

        • 1. Re: Printing with Lightroom versus Photoshop ...
          web-weaver Community Member

          I don't think there is a difference between prints made from Lr and from Photoshop, provided all the parameters / settings are identical.

          Naturally, "identical" is the problem because it is very difficult, if not impossible to ascertain that image developments done in Lr and done in Photoshop are identical.

          But if you would send a file that is already a PSD from Lr to Photoshop (so that there would be no changes made by rendering from Raw to PSD), and would do nothing in Photoshop except send it to the printer, I'd say this print would be identical to a print made from Lr.

           

          But I prefer Lr because it is easier / faster to select the print size, paper, and profile, etc.

          Apart from that, Lr is my main image editor now, and why send an image to Photoshop first when I can just print it from Lr.

           

          So it basically comes down to this question: Which program is your main image editor.

          If you work a lot with layers for instance (which Lr can't do) Photoshop will be and probably remain your main editor. And there are other reasons to prefer Photoshop over Lr.

          • 2. Re: Printing with Lightroom versus Photoshop ...
            RikkFlohr CommunityMVP

            Lightroom is the only way to go IMO

             

            Sharpening scales well.

            Color management is tight.

             

            I haven't printed from PS in three years and don't miss it.

            • 3. Re: Printing with Lightroom versus Photoshop ...
              Butch_M Community Member

              If you use the same settings/profiles for the printer/paper combination used on either app ... the prints will be virtually identical.

               

              I too prefer printing from Lr over PS ... the setup and UI combined with user defined presets is much more user friendly and much more efficient especially if you are printing more than one image at a time. In fact, in my opinion, the Print module in Lr is one item Adobe got right from the start and was a huge factor in my decision to buy Lr v1 in the first place.

               

              Even if I take an image to Ps for further development, compositing or other special requirements, I save the image back to Lr and print from there. Just makes sense since I'm going to catalog the image in Library anyway, I feel no compulsion to print from Ps because I used it to go a step further with an image.

              • 4. Re: Printing with Lightroom versus Photoshop ...
                AttilaHan Community Member

                Thanks a lot to all of you for detailed explanations.

                • 6. Re: Printing with Lightroom versus Photoshop ...
                  elie-d Community Member

                  One other reason I prefer printing in LR is that the conversion is directly from LR's internal space, linear ProPhoto RGB to the printer space without intermediate conversions to and from gamma 1.8 ProPhoto RGB. One less conversion must be a good thing.

                  • 7. Re: Printing with Lightroom versus Photoshop ...
                    Butch_M Community Member

                    elie-d wrote:

                     

                    ... without intermediate conversions to and from gamma 1.8 ProPhoto RGB.

                     

                    elie-d ... care to elaborate on that?

                    • 8. Re: Printing with Lightroom versus Photoshop ...
                      elie-d Community Member

                      When a Raw file is opened in LR it is initially just a list of numbers that record the voltage from each sensel after amplification. The application of a profile puts those numbers into a framework in which they describe colors as "perceived" by the camera. But the profile is device specific (usually it is generic to a model) and the assigned camera space needs to be standardized by conversion to a working space in which the editing will be done. For LR this is a space defined by the ProPhoto RGB primaries and a gamma of 1.0. If I were to export a tiff for printing in PSCS or another application it would be converted at that time to one of the usual working spaces. My choice of space would depend on what I know of the width of my printer's gamut because I would want one that has a wider gamut than the printer in order not to lose any colors. My printer has a gamut wider than Adobe RGB so let's say I'd choose ProPhoto RGB. Regular ProPhoto RGB has a gamma of 1.8 so a conversion would be performed. Then when sent to the printer by the second application the data would be converted again, into the device space defined by the printer/ink/paper profile, either by the application or by the printer driver. When printing from LR, however, there is just one conversion made - from LR's internal space to the printer space.

                      • 9. Re: Printing with Lightroom versus Photoshop ...
                        scott-david-weaver Community Member

                        In reading through this thread I would like to comment that I don't know any of my fine art photographers colleagues who would simply consider a RAW file they have worked on on LR to be ready for exhibition printing. You need to work on the file  using layers in PS, carrying our much retouching, then selectively sharpening with masks, etc. THEN it's ready for printing. I really don't get the fascination with printing through LR except for contact sheets or similar. I've only been using LR for two months, and have used PS for eighteen years. I am also quite inclined to want to return to the Bridge/PS workflow.

                         

                        What am I missing?

                        • 10. Re: Printing with Lightroom versus Photoshop ...
                          RikkFlohr CommunityMVP

                          Of course it may not be after just Lightroom-that isn't the point.  Lightroom has a Superior Print Engine.  Many Photographers (including me) have a Lightroom - Photoshop- Lightroom workflow so that we can catalog our results.  That means every shot you "Finely Craft" lovingly in Photoshop ends up back in Lightroom

                           

                          You might get the "Fascination" if you actually print from Lightroom a few times.

                          • 11. Re: Printing with Lightroom versus Photoshop ...
                            Butch_M Community Member

                            elie-d wrote:

                             

                            When a Raw file is opened in LR it is initially just a list of numbers that record the voltage from each sensel after amplification. The application of a profile puts those numbers into a framework in which they describe colors as "perceived" by the camera. But the profile is device specific (usually it is generic to a model) and the assigned camera space needs to be standardized by conversion to a working space in which the editing will be done. For LR this is a space defined by the ProPhoto RGB primaries and a gamma of 1.0. If I were to export a tiff for printing in PSCS or another application it would be converted at that time to one of the usual working spaces. My choice of space would depend on what I know of the width of my printer's gamut because I would want one that has a wider gamut than the printer in order not to lose any colors. My printer has a gamut wider than Adobe RGB so let's say I'd choose ProPhoto RGB. Regular ProPhoto RGB has a gamma of 1.8 so a conversion would be performed. Then when sent to the printer by the second application the data would be converted again, into the device space defined by the printer/ink/paper profile, either by the application or by the printer driver. When printing from LR, however, there is just one conversion made - from LR's internal space to the printer space.

                             

                            OK ... that's true for printing the RAW image directly ... but even for the most mundane photograher, they have images processed in Ps (or other apps and/or plugins) that have already been rendered to TIFF or PSD ... for these images, there really is no difference when printed from Ps or Lr ... as per what is done behind the scenes for the printing process. Which in turn, there is little to no diffence between the resulting prints from either app.

                            • 12. Re: Printing with Lightroom versus Photoshop ...
                              web-weaver Community Member

                              sdweavernm,

                               

                              I do edit in Photoshop - when necessary - using the tools you mention. But after editing in Photoshop I return to Lr where the PSD "resides". And when printing I do it from Lr.

                              And I gather that is the workflow now of many photographers.

                               

                              What you are missing is the superior image management capabilities of Lr. That's why so many photographers like Lr - apart from the excellent Develop Module.

                              But that doesn't mean you can't use Photoshop. Lr and Photoshop work very well together.

                              • 13. Re: Printing with Lightroom versus Photoshop ...
                                Butch_M Community Member

                                I agree with Rikk ... there is no direct correlation that by printing an image from Lr, that users are only printing directly from the RAW image ... Nor is the assumption that Lr users who print from Lr don't employ Ps to carry out further detailed retouching ... quite the contrary ... for myself, many if not most of my images are round-tripped to Ps or to various plugins to achieve the final result.  There is no rule or requirement anywhere that I can find that if an image is processed in Ps, it must be printed from Ps.  When it comes to printing, Ps is definitely NOT the superior choice IMHO.

                                 

                                Lr is a workflow centerpiece. A point of origin where your workflow can begin, then work hand-in-hand with other apps including Ps, then return the work to Lr for file managaement and final output.

                                • 14. Re: Printing with Lightroom versus Photoshop ...
                                  thedigitaldog CommunityMVP

                                  I printed 288 patch target out of LR 4.4 and CS6. This is a rendered TIFF in sRGB. The average dE is tiny indicating at this point that data that is rendered doesn't go through the LR engine just to make a print (A raw most certainly must). The max dE is kind of high based I believe on not letting the Epson 3880 Luster targets dry. They were measured minutes out of the printer which isn't recommended <g>. I'll measure again tomorrow. I suspect that based on this quick test, and the fact that running rendered data in a defined color space though LR.'s processing color space makes no sense, that's probably what's not happening. When everything is set correctly, the difference between Photoshop and LR is insignificant.

                                   

                                  --------------------------------------------------

                                   

                                  dE Report

                                   

                                  Number of Samples: 288

                                   

                                  Delta-E Formula dE2000

                                   

                                  Overall - (288 colors)

                                  --------------------------------------------------

                                  Average dE:   0.39

                                      Max dE:   1.53

                                      Min dE:   0.03

                                  StdDev dE:   0.27

                                   

                                  Best 90% - (258 colors)

                                  --------------------------------------------------

                                  Average dE:   0.32

                                      Max dE:   0.79

                                      Min dE:   0.03

                                  StdDev dE:   0.18

                                   

                                  Worst 10% - (30 colors)

                                  --------------------------------------------------

                                  Average dE:   1.00

                                      Max dE:   1.53

                                      Min dE:   0.79

                                  StdDev dE:   0.17

                                   

                                  --------------------------------------------------

                                  --------------------------------------------------