I think Adobe needs to add an option something like....

"If you have had a CC subscription for <some amount of time> and you choose to stop your subscription, you can pay <some amount of money close to a typical upgrade fee> to obtain a permanent license for your current configuration."

This would be a good and helpful option, IMO.

Wake up Adobe, and LISTEN to us. We don't want to be FORCED into the cloud. You are going to lose us as customers if you don't give us a way to buy the software. I REFUSE to join the cloud.

I only do this as a hobby so I probably don't count, but this decision is a huge bummer. In the past, my upgrades have happened mainly when I'm forced to migrate to new hardware. I had no problem with Adobe's tiered upgrade pricing I had seen in past years, it seemed fair. At least could plan on my own (or see it coming) when that upgrade would occur and how I would pay for it. CS5 seems like the last stop for me...

I am obvisouly not alone when saying I can't afford $50.00 a month for a bunch of apps I will unlikely ever use. Or knowing that if I unsubscribe, my tools and my work will no longer function.

From the CNET article:

It's not just a big difference for customers. With the change, Adobe moves its business more to a recurring-revenue approach. Instead of revenue surging when upgrades such as CS6 arrive, the company gets a steady stream of money.

"There's a stacking effect. When we bring customers in, they stay in. Then when we bring in new customers, we layer the revenue on top," Morris said. "Recurring revenue is going to help Adobe in the long run. That's one reason Wall Street responded very positively." (emphasis added)

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57582735-92/adobe-kills-creative-suite-goes-subscription- only/?part=rss&subj=software&tag=title

I'm so disappointed.

Please Adobe reconsider! I think you are slamming the door shut for a large user base.

Yes, but will CS6 work with Windows 9 a few years down the road, or a new

Apple OS that's probably in the works?  Will it continue to support RAW

files from cameras not yet designed?  I suspect for anything two years out.

So your statement that "it hasn't exploded" is true, but the fuse is lit and

burning and in a few years my bought and paid for CS6 license will be

rendered useless.

So here are the options.

1)   Milk CS6 till it no longer functions with new gear or OS's and then

decide what to do

2)   Keep encouraging Adobe to re-think this misguided move by not buying

into it.  If Adobe Revenue for CS products drops precipitously for a few

quarters in a row, the shareholders will certainly have something to say

that will be listened to.  After all, we're just lowly customers.  I don't

know if the genius who thought up "New Coke" in the 80's was fired or not,

but the market spoke pretty loudly and within 5 months it was gone and the

old Coke (re-branded "Classic") was back.  We can only hope the same thing

happens here.

3)   Start looking for an alternative to the CS product line.  I'm sure

there are plenty of good products out there that, with this opening, have a

shot at going head to head with the 300 pound gorilla in the room.  Up till

now those companies didn't have a prayer going up against the likes of

Photoshop and Illustrator.  But if enough people are as PO'd as I am, there

is now an instant market that did not exist yesterday that is very eager for

someone to come in and fill.

4)   Stick your tail between your legs and break out the credit card. 

For me, I'm betting on numbers 1-3, but not 4.

Dan

Adobe seems to be claiming that "an overwhelming majority" likes this new policy! All the forums and comments I have read show the opposite.

A petition has been started to show Adobe what we think. Please sign it if you are not happy with the new model:

http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creativ e-cloud-subscription-model#share

I have no problem with the concept but the assumption that everyone using

any CS product line:

a) has or needs all of them is false. I only use PS and LR and have no need

or desire to use any of the others.

b) that everyone needs all the latest improvements instantly. I get every

release of LR but only every 2nd or 3rd release of PS.

For me,  I pay around $79 every 18 months or so for a LR upgrades, and a

couple hundred every 4 years or so for PS.  So, over a 5 year period I spend

around $500.  In this new scheme I'd be paying $2,760 (1 year @ $30/mo, 4

years @ $50/mo).   $500 vs. $2,760 - not a very attractive proposal and not

one I'm going to buy into.

Dan

I can still do most of my work on CS3 or CS4 - but I have to admit that

"Content Aware" was a good add and is what prompted me to get CS5.

Califdan wrote:

 

Yes, but will CS6 work with Windows 9 a few years down the road, or a new

Apple OS that's probably in the works?  Will it continue to support RAW

files from cameras not yet designed?  I suspect for anything two years out.

So your statement that "it hasn't exploded" is true, but the fuse is lit and

burning and in a few years my bought and paid for CS6 license will be

rendered useless.

 

Dan

I cant speak for Windows 9, since it hasnt been announced yet, but we do plan to add support for CS6 for the next full releases of Windows and Mac.

You can find info on Camera RAW support in CS6 at:

http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2013/05/adobe-camera-raw-8-support-for-photoshop-c c-and-photoshop-cs6.html

--

Because Adobe is still selling Photoshop CS6, those customers will continue to receive updated camera raw file format compatibility via Adobe Camera Raw 8.  When we update ACR8 with new camera support, Photoshop CS6 customers can work with the new version of the Camera Raw plug-in.

--

Hope that helps clarify...

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com

There is a simple solution. Allow subscribers to keep using whatever state the software was in upon end of subscription. Require a certian subscription length until this option will be available. You will not receive any software updates after the subscription ends.

Nobody takes your magazines away from you when your subscription ends why should this be any different?

I am not earning a living from my creative work.  I am retired and living on

a fixed income.  I am a "Serious Armature" photographer who has won some

contests, have shown some work in Galleries and restaurants, have yet to

sell an image, and I pull in a hundred or so a week giving camera lessons.

I cannot afford another $600 / yr as it cannot be offset by business income.

I suspect that of all the people who currently own PS or LR, there are way

more folks like me than there are people who actually earn their living

through their work.

I would even be ammenable to paying a fee to get my "perpetual license".   Maybe lower the the fee the longer you've been subscribed?

I am a long time customer, I am also extremely unhappy about the elimination of perpetual licenses.  The bottom line is that as a customer I have a right to say yes or no to future purchasing decisions, and if Adobe does not bring back a perpetual license option, I will be looking at alternatives.

BTW,  I do not need a lecture from those who support the CC idea trying to convince me how great of an idea this CC licensing is.  I am quite capable of determining the value prop myself.  If you like it, great.  But stop trying to convince me that I should like it too.  I simply want choice.

Sign the petition against Adobe!

http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creativ e-cloud-subscription-model

I persoanally have no issue with the CC...actualy I prefer it. I earn profit through ther use of the tools so for me to pay $30 a month (what I am paying now) it is very easy for me. In the past as a Master Collection user for years and the Web and Video Bundles before that, it was diffuclt sometimes to come up with the $600-$1200 upgrade fee when a new version of the software was released. So for me to pay $30 a month ($50 soon) is easy, to me it's just like paying the upgrade fee but broken down into payments and I have access to any tool I want, any time I want.

That being said I can see where you guys who do it as a hobby and aren't profiting from what you do with it would benefit from a one time license fee.

But I ask if you aren't making a profit and are just using the tools as a hobby for fun then why would you want to spend a large fee on a license anyway?

Wouldn't Photoshop Elements be a better solution? $50 bucks or so and it yours.

Sign the petition against Adobe!

http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creativ e-cloud-subscription-model

Somehow my link mysteriously has a space in it.  Someone at Adobe sabotaging that link? Hmmmm, let's try again

http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creativ e-cloud-subscription-model

Shane,

To answer your question, I only use 2 CS products,  LR and PS.  I upgrade LR

every release ($80 every 18 months).  I upgrade PS about every 2nd or 3rd

release ($250 every 4 to 5 years).  That's around $500 over any given 5 year

period.  The CC will cost me $3,000 over the same period (not including 1st

year discount).   $500 vs $3,000.   Not trivial.  For my hobby I can handle

$100/year but not $600/year.

Dan

Works

Hi Shane,

I can't speak for anyone else, but as a hobbyist I have purchased versions of Adobe software because I love creating with them! I come from a painting background, so being able to bring subjects to life with the likes of After Effects, Premiere, Photoshop and Illustrator (and other software...) is immensely rewarding...even if I still suck. I don't say this in any way to be snarky or be confrontational, but why not ask anyone who persues an "expernsive" hobby...why they don't persue a cheaper route? Maybe because they love the tools they invest in...when they can afford to invest in them?

I have looked at the Cloud option since it was introduced, and the overall affordability didn't work for me. Now there is basically a "one size fits all" plan...and if you can't pay your tools STOP WORKING!

Please don't do this Adobe.

ccoggin wrote:

 

Somehow my link mysteriously has a space in it.  Someone at Adobe sabotaging that link? Hmmmm, let's try again

 

http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-t he-mandatory-creative-cloud-subscription-model

No, we don't do that. Feel free to speak your mind, as long as you abide by our community guidelineshere: https://www.adobe.com/communities/guidelines/

Kevin Monahan wrote:

Feel free to speak your mind.

Upon deaf ears (Adobe) ? Well I shouldn't say that, I am sure Adobe will listen long enough to re-spin the marketing campaings to try and get more subscribers amidst the backlash.

I think the message Adobe will listen to is stock price.  If Wall street

sees this as a threat to earnings and the stock price takes a dive I'm sure

Adobe will re-think.  This could happen quickly or it may take a few

quarters of diminished sales revenue.  But, on the other hand,  if revenue

on these products continue to meet (or perhaps exceed) analyst expectations

over the next quarter or two and the stock price holds, Adobe will have no

reason to retract this decision and this will be thought of as a wise

decision.

Our part in this is to keep up the "backlash" and encourage the market (you,

your friends, their friends, etc) to reject this and not buy into the CC.

Do this by getting on Facebook and Twitter and making your case.  This is

not a customer service issue, this is a profit and loss issue.  If it turns

out to be profitable it will stay and expand (how would you like to have

lease instead of buy your camera and always have to bare the cost of the

latest top of the line model?),  if it turns out to be a financial loss it

will be quickly abandoned. 

Dan

Get on Twitter and let's get this to go viral.  Use hashtags #adobe

#creativecloud #creativesuite #AdobeCCDisaster.   Tweet often.

lushlush2000 wrote:

 

I don't say this in any way to be snarky or be confrontational, but why not ask anyone who persues an "expernsive" hobby...why they don't persue a cheaper route?

That's true...good point. For me the tools are for work. I have been using Photoshop, Illuastrator Premiere, After Effects, etc since 1999 or so in a proefessional context. By professional I mean earning a profit from the work I do. To this day I have made 100% of my income from the work I produce with Adobe's tools. I have no issue paying $30/$50 or even $100 a month (which I did when Master Collection 5.5 came out). For me it's nice because I just have the monthly payment go on my business Visa and I don't have to worry about coming up with one large payment to do the upgrade if I wanted to do so every cycle.

But I do see from your stand point where the CC can potentially hurt the hobbyist. Where you guys can pay a one time license fee and use your software indefinitely if you so choose. That will suck for you guys having to pay a monthly fee for just a hobby if you're not earning a profit from what you do.

I understand Adobe's thinking on it from a business perspective. If you want to use their tools, you pay the fee and they have a steady monthly revenue coming in as opposed to the one big sales spike when a new software cyxlwe is released. So from their perspective I can see why they would go that route. Also from a manfuiacturing cost they must be saving alot of money on not having to having to distribute CD's, packaging, etc. In that context they are kind of following suit with Apple in the sense that everything now is going the way of the "app" in the "cloud".

But again from your perspective I do see how it will hurt alot of you...and I sympathize.

From a business perspective I think the only way that Adobe would change their view on the CC Subscriptions versus licensing is if the CC subscriptions do not generate the revenue they anticipate. I personally think it will but if they lose enough customers and thus revenue any business will rethink their strategy.

When we are in the forums requesting features, improvements, etc., I think Adobe is all ears as they want to improve their products for their customers which of course leads to sales. In this context regarding the payment options I think you guys can type away in these forums until you wear your fingerprints off and Adobe will not flinch...unless they start losing revenue from defecting customers.

And lastly...as much as people are complaing and threating against the Cloud, etc...the bottom line is no one out there really has the tool set that they offer. There are other vendors out there with comparable/similar products, etc but there is only one Adobe...and they know it lol.

I would be a lot more excited about this move if:

1) They could offer a buyout at the end (current version you are using, no updates or access to cloud products, just core programs, or choice of core programs)

2) They could at least match the cost of a 2-year upgrade cycle (what many pros use).

From this forum I can see those of us who don’t earn their living from this software are nothing more than second class citizens to the Adobe CC supporters. To answer a question though, I am staff at a school and get the software with my educator discount. I use the software on after hour’s projects above and beyond what I am paid for. Excuse me for my dedication to the students by shelling out my own money. You CC supporters that care nothing for us hobbyists and others that don’t make our living from the all mighty Adobe software sure have shown us where you stand. Most of us hobbyist just wanted to keep being creative. I can see your point of view, the CC supporters fail to see mine. Typical.

We currently have 10 licenses. If i read it right, it's going to cost us 700 dollars a month to access the software. (for the first year, price is sure to go up after that..and that 'two people can share' bit doesn't apply, we use them simultaneously)

RIght now we have bean counters looking for any and every opportunity to save a buck. They look at $700 a month, $8400 a year, and then add in our hourly salaries and thing 'gee, why am I paying these folks when I can contract out to a consultant for less, and don't have to pay benefits'

This will literally get people 'downsized'.

We can justify a 'every two year software upgrade' in our capitol outlay, we can't justify monthly rental - not to mention the fact that we're tied to always paying it or we lose access to our work.

Cloud storage and collaboration is a no-go. a) we dont' collaborate, b) we're not putting our projects out on the internet where anyone, theoretically, can have access. Too much propriatary data.

We'll stick with our CS6 as long as we possibly can and look for alternatives. Surely in that time someone will come up with something comparable to cater to those that leave Adobe.

JoRoxy wrote:

 

I would be a lot more excited about this move if:

 

1) They could offer a buyout at the end (current version you are using, no updates or access to cloud products, just core programs, or choice of core programs)

2) They could at least match the cost of a 2-year upgrade cycle (what many pros use).

This is what I've been saying. As we all know it's all about money. It would be profitable for Adobe to offer  the option to continue to use the software at the state it was in at prescription end. This could be done with an incentive to subscribe for x amount of time or with an additional fee. I think this would make a lot of people happy and make Adobe more money.

And lastly...as much as people are complaing and threating against the Cloud, etc...the bottom line is no one out there really has the tool set that they offer. There are other vendors out there with comparable/similar products, etc but there is only one Adobe...and they know it lol.

They very much know it. They've spent the last decade buying out every serious competitor.

Somewhere at Adobe headquarters, a room full of Ferengi are laughing maniacally.

The Fun part is that they have already made enhancements to things like Photoshop that you can only get on the cloud. Boxed software users are being screwed over already:

http://helpx.adobe.com/content/help/en/photoshop/using/whats-new.html

(From 13.1)

Notice the 'Creative Cloud Only' part.

Boxed software users are now second class citizens to Adobe, after paying out tremendous amounts of money.

I don't see any serious business putting ANYTHING out in the cloud. Too vulnerable to industrial espianage (Yeah, I read their blurb about how secure the data is, but IMHO, it's marketing, and any sane company will not allow its employees to put anything sensitive somewhere they can't control)

This change of pricing model is completely unacceptable. I've been using Photoshop for years. Until now, it has cost me $150 or so every 18 months to upgrade. With this pricing change, it will cost me $19.99 x 18 months to use Photoshop over the same period of time. That's around 2.5x as much. I'll keep using my existing version of PS as long as it works but I'll be looking for alternatives rather than be gouged by this new pricing plan.

We've been very happy so far with Creative Cloud because with CC we've seen much faster release updates with new and better features and bug fixes than in the past and this has allowed us to create better results for our clients faster.

There was nothing keeping them from updating perpetual license customers in a more timely manner.  Software companies do it all the time.  The whole "more frequent updates" was just incentive to push people to their cloud service, while the rest of their customers, who paid cash up front were left to wait for the updates on the next whole version release, and pay again to get them.

For new customers,  CC might seem enticing,  we just upgraded to Design and Web Premium CS6 about 6 months ago at $375 per seat x 4 users.  $1500.     At $50/month, this will now cost us $2400 a year.  Yes, the buy in is cheaper,  but not if you already have the software.   How many people use just a few programs and don't need 80% of what's in the CC bundle? Lots. 

Adobe has been going on and on about how many happy CC users there are now,  well how many of them signed up because over the last year Adobe has made it increasingly more difficult to even get to a BUY button without going through 15 CC ads.  I think people just give up and sign up.

Used to be you could upgrade from a VERY old version to the newest,  then it became two versions back,  then/now it's one version back,  now it's CC...

Creative Cloud,  Creative Cloud,  Creative Cloud!!

http://youtu.be/bv6CUbFvC2Y

I don't always want the latest version of my apps. I want to decide when to update.

The updates are not forced.   Yes, you still will have to pay monthly,  but you can refuse updates until you're ready for them.

SoilentGreen wrote:

 

There was nothing keeping them from updating perpetual license customers in a more timely manner.  Software companies do it all the time.  The whole "more frequent updates" was just incentive to push people to their cloud service, while the rest of their customers, who paid cash up front were left to wait for the updates on the next whole version release, and pay again to get them.

Actually, there are legal and accounting restrictions on adding new features to programs after they have been purchased. These restrictions do not apply when there is an ongoing payment.

For more information, look up revenue recognition:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenue_recognition

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com