JETaImage: what do you suggest is better than Illustrator, preferably for Macs.

@James_233: I should write between the quotes... but:

1) my post was certainly not meant as a personal attack on anyone... and I'm happy to discourse with a colleague. I am not sneering at all... but I am (very) concerned... and have been for quite a long time... of which you stated in your second paragraph.

2) "Many of the newbies are likely to be from big companies who have provided them with software but no training (or very little)."

I mean really! You certainly are NOT trying to make me feel guilty for NOT helping a big company screw my small to mid-size clients out of projects... by not helping their "truck driver turned graphic designer" or someone they pulled out of the mailroom because they've heard the term P before... are you? Newbies with no training? As well meaning as I think your post is in regards to "employees", you do know that you're taking food out of the mouths of those that DO have training... have paid for it dearly... and also are considered committed graphic design professionals because they also continue to learn on their own. You shouldn't get me started there, or please use a better example than the rewrite of "think of the children" retort(!)

3) "If Adobe is culling anybody it is the people who are print specialists who produce long printed documents that need good footnotes (for instance) and fixing the indexing, but Adobe is not providing such updates. How many upgrades have there been for InDesign since we first asked for footnotes?"

We can certainly agree on that! Print.... (long pause)... what can I say other than something I believe I stated months back here: I think it's dead, as well as the decent tools and any advances in print-production along with it. Whether now or in 5 years or 10... it's a niche. Something akin to lead type, typesetters, and real-sticky-ink printing presses. It won't completely die... but it is no longer something I would specifically train for. I've been advising my clients for well over a year now to get going learning e-book production, more web and app skills, re-purposing everything they've created for print for the eventuality of clients needing 'tomorrow' digital equivalents.

With that said... Adobe has made some serious progress in digital delivery and design tools and I do think they will concentrate in that area most going forward. As it relates to this particular forum, I certainly would not be surprised if Illustrator itself is some day "culled" from the CC and left to die. The whole CC needs better integration and the removal of unnecessary overlap of features. Even my favorite Photoshop, does not need video editing(!) In a perfect optimist world, maybe... just maybe... that's Adobe's plan, considering that there's no longer a need for it with a complete CC sub.

As an optimist... yes.. I'm looking at the positive side of possibilities, and trying to get into the heads of the planners behind this rather bold and controversial move.

4) "It's more important to keep the cash flow coming in and the investors happy."

Well... that's kind of stating the obvious. There is no other reason for exsisting...for a publicly traded company in our modern capitalistic world... now is there. It is short-sighted though and I am not agreeing that it is the right way to view a technology company... far from it! However if the cash-flow allows Adobe to lighten up the marketing dept and feature schedules needed to sell new versions.... and put that cash into continuous development and timely delivery of it.... I'm all for it.

If my optimism is misguided after a year or 2... I'll be the first on the list to have Adobe class-action sued, broken up, and the officers hung from their toes on 345 Park ave, SJ!!!!!!

James_233 wrote:

 

I agree with you about a shake out in Adobe admin. And that there have not been enough bug fixes. I'll add there have not been enough improvements for print specialists. Now if these overdue fixes and improvements are finally done, Adobe will now require us to pay a monthly fee for them.

In my first post... I said that I actually suspect they will do just that: they have been holding back almost surely! They will get you on board one way or the other.

If I may... you asked for an equivalent Illustrator replacement on the Mac. Since you're doing "print"... I really hate to say IMHO, there is none. There is some "hope" with Sketch - http://www.bohemiancoding.com/sketch/ ... and of course InkScape. The other alternatives at the moment are the old stand-by programs like CorelDraw and Xara on the Windows side, installed on a Mac within Parallels. There were some rumblings that Xara might come to our rescue and release a Mac version. Corel I have absolutely no hope for as a company. Worse than Adobe from my many years as a Painter enthusiast!

Maybe OmniGraffle will do for diagrams. Lack of Pantone support is a problem for finding alternatives to Mac Adobe. Still to find a pantone-supporting charting app.

Yes I do not see the problem. And I don't think any of you actually have a problem except maybe it is a way of doing things you are not familiar with and that that makes you uncomfortable.

I think in time you might find it your advantage and find new uses for the software as well.

All you need is an open mind.

I think most people that make the cahnge will find it is the right way to go.

I made a feature request when Illustrator 10 came out to be able to pay for the software on a monthly subscription basis with the ability to pay for programs on a month by month basis, but the way the cloud works is bvetter than what I wanted and more economical in the long run.

Yes I have no prob;lem with it.

Wade_Zimmerman wrote:

 

I made a feature request when Illustrator 10 came out to be able to pay for the software on a monthly subscription basis with the ability to pay for programs on a month by month basis, but the way the cloud works is bvetter than what I wanted and more economical in the long run.

 

Yes I have no prob;lem with it.

Yes, the option to pay-as-you-go may be advantageous in some scenarios, of course.

It's the narrowing of available options with respect to "modes of tender" that's troubling. Any purveyor of goods whose transaction model puts the consumer at a disadvantage, even if it's only perceived, (and I'm not saying it is in this case), and does so seemingly secure in the knowldge that there's little or no competition, runs the risk of over-leveraging its market. This is the stuff of monopoly, and there are very good reasons why monopolies are undesirable.

Is there no end to things you won't take credit for Zimmerman.

At least we know who to blame.

John Mensinger wrote:

 

Is there no end to things you won't take credit for Zimmerman.

 

At least we know who to blame.

hahaha....get him!!!

Doc, you kind of make sense, it obviously works for you...and others that oppose have their good arguments also, a lot has been said already...

...but in one of your comments you say you "hope" this time, "for real", "no more holding back", they will fix the long living bugs...

...for me, it is a major issue, the lack of commitment to fix what's broken, for whatever reason...if the software delivered we will probably wouldn't be having this conversation, if we loved the software we would be happy to jump to the new business model innovation Adobe is offering, instead of fearing for the unknown.

Wade_Zimmerman wrote:

 

I made a feature request when Illustrator 10 came out to be able to pay for the software on a monthly subscription basis with the ability to pay for programs on a month by month basis

2001 ? Did you submit that request using your AOL account ? ;-)

CarlosCanto wrote:

 

Doc, you kind of make sense, it obviously works for you...and others that oppose have their good arguments also, a lot has been said already...

 

...but in one of your comments you say you "hope" this time, "for real", "no more holding back", they will fix the long living bugs...

 

...for me, it is a major issue, the lack of commitment to fix what's broken, for whatever reason...if the software delivered we will probably wouldn't be having this conversation, if we loved the software we would be happy to jump to the new business model innovation Adobe is offering, instead of fearing for the unknown.

Actually I dinged Adobe for this on another forum earlier today. If Adobe hadn't been so fixated on marketing and gobbling up new features and bug-fixes for future releases... AND... would have continued to be diligent in fixing bugs as they used to be a few years back... YES... the debate of whether this CC is worth it would have been settled long ago at this price.

This is also why I'm calling for the heads at the top... among other valid reasons. They've screwed not only us... but the very assets they depend on moving forward: their employees and talented engineers!

I'm am not going to say anything more than, the chaos within the development teams and management has been whispered about more than once in my presence.

Wade_Zimmerman wrote:

 

I made a feature request when Illustrator 10 came out to be able to pay for the software on a monthly subscription basis with the ability to pay for programs on a month by month basis, but the way the cloud works is bvetter than what I wanted and more economical in the long run.

Darn Wade. You're going to have to stop letting your foot talk to your tonsils... and tell the wall to quit hitting you in the head!

You walked into this foo-foo... now get yourself out... if not only for a little humor relief at the end of a long heated debate.

You see I read at the time that there were some licenses on high end software for movie editing that were paid for by subscription and thought is was a good idea.

I make lt's of feature requests whether thAat is why the features appear I have no idea but I made those request.

For instance when the iPod came out I made a suggestion on this forum that Apple would have to make it a phone as well and if they did not do it someone else would.

By the way I post most of the feature request that I submit here on the forum first and then I submit them.

For instance I had suggested that illustrator have 3D capability and had a running battle with several other users on the forum who insisted that Illustrator should not have it.

My purpose for having it was different than what it became but nontheless it was a feature request I made and then I met Mordy and I said that perhaps it did not have to be a full fledge 3D feature only so you cold manipulate a 3D object. I meant I did not mean to be able to make 3D objects just to manipulate 3D objects within Illustrator. But we got something a little bit more than that but not quie what I actually wanted.

I also made a request for a 3D feature in Photoshop which was also eventually realized. And there again I had a long running dispute with a couple of users on the forum about that request as well.

Perhasps Scott W recalls this all and if not you can ask Mordy perhaps.

You might all think your smart but I think I just have better ideas than you. And that's life.

Maybe I'm slightly jaded because of it, but the graphic design industry is my profession and I take it quite seriously.

And what the heck about all that do you think makes you so dang special? You think others here don't have just as much, if not more, experience and talent than you do? You think you're unique because you "take it seriously," as if anyone else doesn't? Get off your high horse and stop making assumptions about people you don't know didly about.

I'm 58. I've made my living doing graphics my entire life. My print graphics predates PostScript by a long shot. I was an accomplished airbrush illustrator before anyone ever heard of vector drawing programs.

I was among the earliest adopters of Macs, and was building color-separated ads and prodouct collateral and collaborating with PostScript output bureaus back when the high end color houses I also worked with were still saying that PostScript was a flash in the pan.

So drop your elitist self-glorification. You're just among your peers here, fella, not anything special.

JET

JETaImage: what do you suggest is better than Illustrator, preferably for Macs.

I stopped buying Macs in my own studio shortly after all the long drawn-out false-start drama leading up to the release of OS10. So I don't even keep up with what's available on Mac OS these days; it's a non-issue to me. I just don't see a compelling Mac OS advantage anymore.

I'm as OS agnostic as they come. I don't live in the OS. I live in the applications I need to run. The OS is just for launching applications, managing file storage, providing system-level resources, and handling I/O. Otherwise, I just want it out of my face.

I've got no beef with those still devoted to Mac; I guess I'm glad it's there, 'cause Microsoft has to have something to copy. But to me it's just another corner I don't care to paint myself into, in terms of software options.

Things to use instead of Illustrator? Depending on what you want to do, Canvas, Draw, Corel Designer, Xara Designer Pro, even Inkscape.

JET

Wade_Zimmerman wrote:

 

- For instance when the iPod came out I made a suggestion on this forum that Apple would have to make it a phone as well and if they did not do it someone else would.

- You might all think your smart but I think I just have better ideas than you. And that's life.

I remember reading in Steve Jobs book about you Wade, how he turned to you for consulting on the iPhone concerning all details and features once he heard your idea. Also, it must be a slug fest when you and Al Gore get together and battle it out about who invented the internet. But I must say, driving around each day, I appreciate your suggestion to Henry Ford about cars for everyone. You probably shouldn't have given Einstein that idea about spitting the atom however.

Saw this on the PS forum. Hitler's response to CC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67Iw9q2X9cU

Quite a production and funny.

Mike

That is funny.

But I'm not nearly so desperate and cornered and helpless as the little tyrant. Anyone who thinks my voicing my take on Adobe's latest greedy gambit means I'm sitting here wringing my hands, about to pop an aneurysm, they're as misguided as history's favorite fascist.

So don't hold your breath waiting for me to sigh in resignation and say , "Sign us up."

JET

no, me either. i do have options and i don't see my clients switching anytime soon anyway.

so far in this thread only..

in favor of CC - 6 including a couple of employees, plus Wade who started it all

against CC - 14

never seen a Poll Post, I wonder if more people would participate if there was one.

JETalmage wrote:

 

Maybe I'm slightly jaded because of it, but the graphic design industry is my profession and I take it quite seriously.

And what the heck about all that do you think makes you so dang special? You think others here don't have just as much, if not more, experience and talent than you do? You think you're unique because you "take it seriously," as if anyone else doesn't? Get off your high horse and stop making assumptions about people you don't know didly about.

 

I'm 58. I've made my living doing graphics my entire life. My print graphics predates PostScript by a long shot. I was an accomplished airbrush illustrator before anyone ever heard of vector drawing programs.

 

I was among the earliest adopters of Macs, and was building color-separated ads and prodouct collateral and collaborating with PostScript output bureaus back when the high end color houses I also worked with were still saying that PostScript was a flash in the pan.

 

So drop your elitist self-glorification. You're just among your peers here, fella, not anything special.

 

JET

There is nothing special about me when discussing with "peers" such as yourself and the roughly 2 dozen others that contribute to this forum, and I certainly wasn't making assumptions about them or you. Your pulling my unwise "grandstanding" out of context. Before I move on, interesting how your "resume" and experience parallels my own (including airbrushing ). Only difference is regarding your post below, in that I keep up to date with all of the platforms, including Mac and Linux. Dropping knowledge of OS X when the majority of ad agencies use it as their platform of choice, would not be a wise decision on my part, even if the data is cross-platform. Whatever.

I realize that this particular forum as well as all of the forums here at Adobe are for people, mostly newbies, to search for answers to their problems with the software. However, my patience is tested rather quickly when the questions have been answered many times over, and many others are a Google search away. Some of the questions have to do with the very basic training and understanding of the profession, where once again, a simple Google search would show the "desire" to learn and be a professional some day. Even the ultimate expert here who is always helpful and courteous, Monika Krause, has pointed people in the direction of Google some times.

The democratization, easy availability, and low cost of the tools we use is enjoyed by us all. However there are some, including many people/businesses the world over that not only have lost respect for the graphics profession and the training involved to be good at it, but also believe they can do it all themselves with an office computer, secretary, and "acquired" software. When they hit a snag.... and they will... well here they are getting their free advice, troubleshooting and training. Does that make me an "elitist" for pointing that out and it getting on my nerves some times?

After a solid day of reading multiple forums about The Adobe CC Bomb, what I came away with is that the largest number of people commenting and spouting nonsense about what Adobe is offering, are exactly those "generalized" above, the kind of people that can't be bothered to Google... or even read the darn release notes and FAQ sheet(!) It was ~30:1 ratio of informed vs. I-can't-be-bothered-to-read commenter's, and an even higher ratio of Pro vs. Pro-sumer, once-a-month users... moaning and complaining and slamming Adobe over something that a large majority of them really have no "business" using in the first place. IMHO, they certainly shouldn't have a large say in how Adobe moves forward with this, but yes, they are a vocal bunch to be sure and many have contributed to Adobe's coffers over the years. Regardless, they are guaranteed NOT to move Adobe and it's tools forward in the least. They have stated as much 1000's of times, even if it means better tools for the job. That's just plain sad!

JET, you may remember me backing the Free Freehand movement and an alternative to it and Illustrator a while back. Well I stopped being supportive within that group for the very same reason that I'm backing Adobe to move forward here. I want ground-breaking tools and software, geared towards professionals, using up-to-the-minute technologies and being relative for our design tasks tomorrow and in the future. The FF group almost to a person wanted to stand still and create a clone of FF. As much as I liked and depended on FF in my career, I certainly saw many areas where it could be improved rather than simply cloned. A large number of people bashing Adobe right now, also want to stand still... and many of them express their desire to do so until "CS4, 5, 6 no longer works". I personally don't see these "voices" moving the industry forward in the least, and it gets under my skin to be honest.

These are essentially the same voices we heard in the mid-80's, that are trying to alter the direction not only of Adobe, but the industry and it's tools it works with. Just imagine if we stopped with version 1.0 of all of our programs, or listened to the naysayers in the 80's or 90's. Albeit and sadly, many of the most vocal were professionals in their industry at the time. Not only was the debate more interesting in the 80's and 90's, but you also were able to learn and benefit from the "old" industry practices and apply it to the new digital world and tools we were getting our hands on. Let's also not forget, we also had to have a lot of faith and dreamy vision to go against the wisdom of those pillars of our industry in litho, pre- and post production, layout, web-, offset and silkscreen printing. This time the debate is being steered by a mob of casual users, people that can't find the time to read, and with a fairly large contingent of pirates among them.

Re: Pirates... yes, I'm sure they'll find a way as they always do. However, it just may be more trouble than it's worth for the small businesses and sweatshops that take advantage of this "avenue of acquisition". I think that's all Adobe is after.

Back to topic: Personally, I think we have to keep an open mind on this and see what happens in the coming months. I know my dreams are bit on the rosy side, but some of the detractors are far too close to the skeptical end of the spectrum. I do know for a fact that I won't be standing still and will be taking advantage of all of the tools that Adobe CC has to offer. It's an incredible line-up now, with new tools like the Edge series coming into it's own, and some of the cloud offerings look interesting to get involved with. When I think back, wow!... as a student I would have even worked a 4th or 5th extra job to afford this package every month! I'm personally not fearful that my data is going to disappear, nor that my version of choice that I used to create it will stop working either. I really don't see the large drawbacks that many people are worrying about to be honest(?).

In closing... I was silly to be goaded in posting my experience to boost my speaking points, and did so extremely sloppily. I never meant to generalize that the people I was debating with here were any less talented and/or dedicated than I am... considering that many of them surely are more so. Generalize being the key word... and without a doubt... one of the stupidest things anyone can do, so I sincerely apologize for that.

*** JET, you asked, "What do you know about us?"

Think positive: we all know a little bit more about each other now which I consider a good thing for future debates. Part of the human interaction when writing in blogs or forums, is that we often get side-tracked by NOT knowing where someone is coming from. We've hurdled that barrier admirably I would say and won't get off-topic as often in the future

*** still not sure where WZ is coming from most of the time (?????)... and how ironic that WZ and I are in the same club.    Thanks for the reminder scott_w to say, that while we can poke fun at WZ... he has it right here (for once):

KEEP AN OPEN MIND! ...and before someone hijacks that... you can keep the "and an open pocketbook" cleverness to yourself! We've heard that joke and I beat ya to it.

Because I mentioned the Free Freehand movement in a bad light above, I think I should at least be courteous enough to say that I sincerely admired the resolve and their efforts in trying to get Freehand out of the grasp of Adobe's hands. Unfortunately it was not to be.

At the time those efforts failed and a developer was found that was working on a "Freehand-like" solution to all of our dreams... that's when the disconnect from the user group's visions and my personal ones collided. You can read all about it on the Free Freehand Forum http://www.freehandforum.org/, and on Quasado's blog page http://quasado.wordpress.com/

Actually the developer is still working on an "alternative vector program" to Freehand and Illustrator, but has also decided to move into the "future tools" category by making it a web app first in the beginning. Interesting stuff and if anyone is inclined, he could use your support or at least you might keep your eye on his developments.

MikeWenzloff wrote:

 

Saw this on the PS forum. Hitler's response to CC.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67Iw9q2X9cU

 

Quite a production and funny.

 

Mike

LOL! That was.................(breath).............. hilarious! Creativity in all forms... I can't get enough of it. Sign me up for "Creativity"!

I really can't understand how this is seen as an extortion...

It's -WAY- cheaper than buying the programs standalone or either in packages, plus you have a truckload of benefits.

An extortion is a situation when someone forces you to pay for something giving you absolutely nothing. Not really what Adobe is doing right now.

Holy cow, we are speaking about WORKING TOOLS, stuff you use to pay your bills and build up your life, do you pretend them to be free or what?

I really can't understand, seriously...

It has come to light that Adobe will also be "culling" Fireworks and it's users from the CC. http://thenextweb.com/dd/2013/05/06/yes-adobe-is-killing-fireworks-only-plans-security-upd ates-and-bug-fixes/

Posive Thinking at Work: Adobe is streamlining.... and gives the very same reasoning behind it's move as I thought they might when the time came: getting rid of overlapping functions and apps.

Wild Speculation: Dreamweaver... is it next on the Dead List? Flash? What about Illustrator, even if it would have a different reason than the question below?

Question to anyone who might know: is/was Macromedia's frameworks so screwed up or based on legacy compilers, that Adobe has decided to abandon the software rather than write new ones? This was whispered about as to the reason why FreeHand was abandoned and no longer updatable.

I would love to hear the answer to that eventually, since I've actually asked it before.

Message was edited by: DocPixel-BMW - spelling

KEEP AN OPEN MIND!

JETalmage wrote:

 

KEEP AN OPEN MIND!

Egads.

GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE!....and keep an open pocket book.

JET

Egads?

High horse?

Open Pocketbook?

What is your problem?

"Keep an open mind" is a bad thing to do these days?

It's quite evident we're misunderstanding each other on very deep level here... so I'll just bow out.... or should I say down from the perch you've wrongly and unfortunately put my on.

As the saying goes, "it's not the tools that you use, it's what you make with them". Here's wishing success with whatever tools you choose to use.

i think i am fortunate to not have an opinion on this. i work for a large company, it's up to them what i use. as for home jobs... i could still use illy 10 and PS 7 really...

Holy cow, we are speaking about WORKING TOOLS, stuff you use to pay your bills and build up your life, do you pretend them to be free or what?

Who said anything about free? It's about refusing to rent a software license. Simple as that.

Example: I chose to skip Master Collection CS5.5. It just didn't offer anything significant in the primary applications, least of all Illustrator. So I just continued using CS4, and spent the $1200 elsewhere. Upgraded to CS6 when it came out. In other words, I didn't pay Adobe $50 per month for the duration between CS4 and CS6. I didn't skip a beat in my work, and didn't have to jump through any hoops. Actually acquired additional tools—just other than Adobe's—and thereby significantly broadened my WORKING TOOLS capabilities and versatility. I'm still running CS3 on my Saturday-morning laptop. What's hard to understand?

JET

It is partially about pricing to me. It's about where I choose to spend my software budget, and what I'm left with if I decide Adobe's latest offering doesn't cut muster. The "no pay, no play" aspect is inherent in what I just described. I didn't have to quit using CS4 just because I wasn't interested in CS 5. Mr. BMW has not steered my thinking in any way.

JET

I wonder if one can enforce an abatement of rent in case there are (unsolved) bugs, so that a user cannot reasonably use the application.

Any legal rules …?

[scott w] wrote:

 

My issues with the Creative Cloud have NOTHING to do with pricing. Doc has effectively made it about pricing by trying to defend the pricing.

 

My primary issue with the Creative Cloud is the "No pay, no play" aspect of it.

 

Don't let Doc make it about pricing.. that's not the problem.

Yes, "No Pay, No Play" is what has everyone launching the pitch forks and sticking "The Greedy Pig".

If Adobe is going to do away with versions the way they have stated they want to, the only thing I can think of that would work is, after 24-months you can cancel and own the program... or 36 months the suite. Similar to carrier/phone plans. It would be completely on Adobe's side then to update frequently and keep people either on CC or to come back to it as soon as possible.

For people that don't have to share their raw working files, that could work.... couldn't it?

I state specifically not sharing of raw working files, because as with a phone plan, any and every date is possible. You, or for instance the person that you're giving the working files to will always have to have at the very least, the same upgrades or features installed. I see that being a major mess, unless the CC versions will warn when opening a file what's missing to edit it. As I understand it, Adobe is not talking a simple "created in CS5 and trying to open in CS3" not working. It very well could look like a "missing fonts list" in a magazine layout without a font folder.

@JET - "Latest offering" - on a weekly/monthly basis?... how are you going to determine when it's time to quit? Pronto after 24 months?

As an example: so when an adjustment filter bug-fix doesn't fit your needs the week you can go "unlocked", you're going to quit the sub... without knowing beforehand that the "Rounded Corners Palette Widget*" from Photoshop will be added next week to Illustrator, and a week later to inDesign.

It's unfortunate... but I truly don't think that Adobe is going to lay out a map of what their planning for new features or when they will release them. For CC to even be conceivable for Adobe and to keep people on it, they must pretty much do what they've said they would and actually have done with the Edge tools: frequent feature updates and bug fixes.  I've said previously that they surely have that trick up their sleeve and a staggered calendar all ready to go.

If anything... it's just that "trick" that I'm accepting, look forward to, and am willing to pay for. Others consider it evil and a money grab. I'm certainly open to Perpetual Licensing even though I won't use it, I just don't see the benefit of it.

* NOTE: back around the time when Adobe introduced the Plug-In architecture to Photoshop, there was some discussion about them also developing "modular software". It is something I remember because I always thought it would be a really good idea. We've had all of these multiple programs, duplicating the menus, panels, dialog boxes, prefs... what have you. A far more efficient approach would be to add those things as "feature modules" if you need them, not unlike the plug-ins we all enjoy today.

Within Illustrator, look at all the goodness and features that the Astute Graphics plug-ins add (some would say, complete the mess that is Illustrator). What if Adobe is planning on going this route with their software as well? There's certainly recent evidence of this within the suite even today with the Mini Bridge (widget) for example.

Just curious what others have to say without getting personal... egads!

> "Just curious what others have to say without getting personal... "

Offer the Cloud model for those who want the cloud. At the same time, offer the perpetual license for those who prefer the traditional route.

> Adobe is asking me to support their new business model while at the same time ruining mine.

Now that is the best quote from this discussion.

There is a legal case for ownership of products produced using Adobe software, access to them, and copyright etc. I doubt Adobe will win. Surely Adobe's lawyers have advised.

There also might be an element of kite flying, of taking such an extreme stance at the start so when Adobe backs down (as it expected to do) it will seem so magnanimous that we'll sign-up to whatever it offers in gratitude. A situation similar to trade union/employer demands and the compromise reached is what was intended in the beginning.

What Adobe has done is make me consider my attitude to software and hardware upgrades. Do I really need them? The answer at the moment is no. The Adobe announcement coincided with really serious problems on my new Mac with Adobe products and Mountain Lion, which I upgraded to in mid April. I have contacted Apple about them, but the quick solution to all the problems is to reinstall Snow Leopard on my old Mac over the weekend and that will become the new work computer. My shiny brand new Mac Mini with 16GB of RAM will be my secondary computer, used more for hobbies, and will probably have Lion rather than ML simply because it is difficult to install Snow Leopard on it.