Yes Yes Yes

It is absolut BS what they have done - a Money makers experiment.

I hope their stock price will fall rapidly!

Don´t subscribe - sign the petitions!

Keep CS6 alive as lon as possible!

I'm not a fan of the policy change either..    and..  lets be realistic about what affect we can have on the policy here.

Economics..   Supply and Demand...   

Adobe has too many customers to support effectively and with good reputation..  and one way to manage the supply balance is to cause a decrease in demand.   

So, people leaving may be exactly what they want.   It might be a solution to their problem.

Additionally, so far, the anti-Forced-Creative-Cloud movement has been pretty luke warm in comparison the total number of customers. 

Furthermore, the stock price may be on a slight decline over the last few days, howver, it's also on a multi-month trend of increasing value that, even with the slight decline over the past few days, isn't broken.   It's still right on that trend. 

I'm not a fan of it, however, the 'public outcry' has, so far, been a mouse squeak in the scheme of things.  If you really want to protest..    start making things that get the word out..    like..   catchy limericks, anti-adobe CC songs and pictures.  Write blog posts about it often.   Get featured on mashable.     Post on Reddit.     Generate a new Adobe viral meme.       

If that's too much work..    the movement will not succed.  Lets be realistic.

If you think the anti-CC movement is luke warm then you have not put your feet in that water.

Supply & Demand? Its software... That means limitless downloads. Keyword: limitless

Downloads Limitless, yes.   Support resources limitless, no. 

I /have/ put my feet in the water.   Almost all of my posts on these forums are related to this particular issue.    I've viewed countless external websites also. 

Luke warm.

Course, instead of killing the messenger, you could do something in the 'if you really want to protest' section of the above post.   That would be more productive.

The issue for people who elect to stay with CS6 is that there will eventually become a gap for creatives who wish to collaborate with those who have moved to CC because they won't be able to open the newer versions of the document files. Downsaving or using interchange formats doesn't work in a collaborative environment.

For those who don't want to move to CC because of the uncertainty surrounding the ability to open your own files after you cancel your subscription this becomes a very hard decision if you want to stay relevant in the industry.

For those who aren't sure what their income will be like some years from now, but still wish be able to use Adobe software and stay relevant in the industry this is a hard decision.

In politics this would be called wedge politics.

As someone who has so far decided to saty with CS6, I am worried about the numbers that adopt CC. So far none of teh CC advocates have told me how they will handle the end of their subscription. Do they not care about the above issues, or do they have a plan to deal with them.

Mr Luke Warm... Here's a clue... The pool is bigger then Adobe forums. All the AIGA meetings I've been to consisted of very angry words directed at this very subject. Many are still just hearing about it. There's a petition online, Facebook is heating up and yes websites are already talking alternatives. I've had many one on one discussions with others in the industry that are just plain fed up but what you don't understand is that not everyone spends their time in the forums. Forums are usually frequented by beginners. The only reason I'm on adding to this forum is because I saw the discussion in a web search.

Ok, if you're talking about it within your groups, here's something important.  Be less insular.   Talking amongst yourselves and the like minded is far less effective at getting results.    A random petition is not enough..    Comments on a board.    Not enough.   We're creative people here.    Lets do something new and creative.

For me the only problem is pricing. As a photographer I only use two programs and paying $600 every year to use them is not realistic. A price of $10 per month per program would be much more doable. Adobe please reconsider your pricing scheme. I don't want to pay for apps I never use.

Agree

I don't mind the monthly fee for CC.  I'm not making money from it now, but hope to at some point. Meanwhile, it's a moderately priced, intensly enjoyable learning experience, that has profit potential as my skills grow. I love exploring the apps I don't know, and growing skills in the ones I do know. It's a lot cheaper kind of fun than a lot of other things I observe people sinking money into. I guess for those who have so much hate for Adobe, they are free to find something else. If they are making decent money with Adobe software, well, I wish I was in their shoes, and $50 per month doesn't seem too nasty of a price to pay for the tools of a trade. Take a look at what traditional art supplies, woodworking, or auto repair tools cost! And what about keeping a wide carriage photo printer fed and working? I used to have a bookbindery and there were many jobs that I lost money on or made 1.00 or less per hour. Yes, you do own many traditional tools, but you still have to maintain them, buy supplies, and keep up with new developments. It seems to me Adobe cares about creativity--based on the quality and functionality of their software-- that's just my opinion, which no one solicited or paid me for.

I would not consider going to an AIGA event in a big city "my group" but rather a smattering of ages, talent levels, specialties from different arenas. My group consists of long time professionals who don't spend all their time on forums looking for support. Their talent goes beyond what Adobe has to offer and rather then wasting time with another Adobe snafu would just prefer to hand code or pass their design off in a standard PDf format in what ever program and not worry so much about compatibility.

Bobmepp, I'm interested in what you will do with your files once you cancel your subscription. You won't be able to open any of your work documents, because you no longer have the software to open the original files.

If you have an indesign document (eg book) you won't be able to open that indesign document again, unless you start up the subscription again. If you have an illustrator file or photoshop document, using many of the features of that version program, you won't be able to open them again.

Are you happy to lose the ability to open your own work at a later date?

What will happen when we want to re-install the software (CS5 or CS6) that we own onto our own computers? Will we still have access to the upgrade service which kept our current versions up to date with patches?

Shame on you Adobe for taking this stance. It's very agressive and is a huge let down to those who have legally used your product for years. We all upgrade when we can afford to.

I don't like the fact that you'd be infinitely paying for it whereas before you'd pay the price and get to keep using it. It's very hard to justify the price for ALL the tools monthly, especially when most users probably use no more than 5 applications.

And of course, the college student argument that it's nearly impossible to justify such a high month-to-month infinite cost starting out.

I got my Design Premium Suite for $320. If I had been subscribed at $30 a month, I'd have payed $540, which means I would have lost the subscription months ago.

Mattrman,

Hilarious!  Near genius. Thanks!

There's an ad on the AIGA website that is advertising Creative Cloud..     Might be worth looking into that.

The AIGA website will run any ad for money as its memebers don't vote on what ads to run and not to run. Many times organizations will have a running annual retainer for running ads. It makes sense that Adobe would run an ad relationship with AIGA but I wouldnt expect its office members to vote on wether or not they agree on an ad from Adobe unless it contained insensative content.

Many times you could also be viewing a Smart Ad wich only you see because the Adobe website dropped a smart cookie on your browser.

For those  earlier in the thread asking 'why don't hobbyists just use Elements?' (paraphrased) -  just because a person doesn't make their living doing photography/design/whatever, doesn't mean they're not producing high-level work. Perhaps they need the features offered by Photoshop or other full-featured programs, and the cut-down versions simply don't do the job. 'Hobbyist' doesn't necessarily equate to 'low skill level'.

I also disagree with this decision by Adobe. I see the advantages of the cloud for many, but we should have a choice.

Nearly 3000 people have signed one change dot org petition against the elimination of the perpetural licence in just a couple of days! Pretty clear  many, many users are extreamly unhappy about having no choice but to pay Adobe now and forever to open files. The perpetual license model must be reinstated.

Since several years I use Photoshop, Indesign and Illustrator.

I readed several book about the programms.

And I was a really Fan of Adobe and it products.

But now, I cannot follow Adobe.

I really don't want to pay  monthly taxes to use the programs.

If Adobe has success with this marketing-strategy, in some time you have to pay monthly for using operation-system, office-program ans so on.

I hope, that adobe will strike outh with the new business-model and go back to the old model.

Andreas

Great!!!

With this (Distribution-) model no one can stop Adobe to rise their prices (And they will do, when catched enough sheeps)

with this model Adobe can do fewer updates (as the clients have to pay and pay)

with this model your hardware has to follow Adobes plans

with this model you don´t have the freedom of Software choice (without paying twice after quitting subscription)

with this model I can´t decide one day to go out of business and work a little bit on my illustrations....

I hope that Adobe has to pay the bill. Not us

Pauls Sloss, I'm reasonably sure that I will continue to subscribe, or if not, that I will keep a copy of CS6 going if I choose to put out the big bucks single fee to do that, or that the marketplace will provide alternative software that will open the formats I use. Or, maybe, as I age, I will focus on one thing only and pare down to say, just Painter, which will open my photoshop docs that are saved in compatability mode. I also believe that Adobe is not evil, and not an absolute dictatorship, and, if the reaction is severe and broad enough, they will have a "new coke" moment and back-track, reduce the subscription price or react in some other way that will make their customers happy and protect their profits.

Actually, and not to troll or be depressing, what I am not happy about, is the acidification of the arctic waters, the warming of the antarctic, the patenting of basic seeds and parts of the human genome, for-profit health care, the earth's failure to cooperate on asteroid protection and instead the arming-to-the-teeth of both nations and individuals, and the buying up of newspapers and other media to control what people read and think. Look up those topics and you will see the names of corporations and their government minions who are really in the business of evil. In my mind, Adobe is not even a player in the corporate evil game.

It 's hard to say based on just a few days..  but maybe..   just maybe the outcry is having an effect on the stock price.   http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=maximized&chdeh=0&chfdeh=0 &chdet=1368129600000&chddm=1955&chls=IntervalBasedLine&q=NASDAQ:ADBE&ntsp=1&ei=M7eLUajaI6C glgPWcw.

I can picture that hitler video re-texted saying something like, "Muin Furor, our worst fears have been realized, the people affected by the forced change to Creative Cloud are selling their stock and the drop in price caused a chain reaction that forced Wall Street to take notice.  Not only is this bad for us, but it's bad for the renting software business model as a whole."   Then Hitler goes on a tirade about how companies shouldn't have to fear their customer's reaction and in the quiet moment at the end, he whispers 'abort'.   Course, that all depends on continued reaction.

I think you have summed up the situation very nicely.    I would like to add a bit from a non USA view.  I use Production Premium CS 5.5.  I started with 4 and upgraded a couple of times, so am not anti spending.  However, my upgrade costs around £

350 every 18 months.  With the new rental system, based at £

48 (yes pounds, not dollars) a month after taxes, that 18 month cycle becomes £

850, or a price hike of 240%, which I could be locked into until the day I drop dead.    I am trying to find out what the compatibility would be between CS5.5 and the new CC versions in case I wanted to cancel a subscription and go back to CS5.5, but have had limited information so far

There will be major compatibility issues between CS5.5 and CC. You will need to subscribe in order to open those files and resave to an interchange format. Think of it as "Pay Per View TV".

This vacuum Adobe is creating will open up a new opportunity for other companies to take advantage of "once again".

I don't understand why people think there will be compatibility issues of any kind. Can you confirm this with cited factual information?

there will be incompatibility when CC moves forward. Then you can´t open files with CS6.

You can´t already open AE and PP Files at the moment this way. Have a look at product specifications.

When you quit subscription you are left alone. And without the use of all your files/work!!!!

You can re-activate cloud (and pay for that) for every single file you open a month.

Great plan Adobe!

Odd question. There's ALWAYS a backwards compatabilty problem... How on earth do you think an old application is going to open a file with newer effects in it? No confirmation needed. All your CC files would have to be exported to a CS6 or an open flattened format like PDF or MP4 or what ever or an unreliable interchange format.

Let's say adobe creates a new adjustment layer type that does not exist in

CS5.  You use the CC version of Photoshop, create an adjustment layer of

this new type, then save your PSD file.  Later, you give up your CC

subscription when your bank account runs dry.  If you then open that PSD

file with your Perpetual License version of CS5 you will have a problem

because the programming code that support the new adjustment layer type does

not exist in CS5.  So, what will happen in this scenario?  It's hard to

tell. 

The existence of features in the PSD file that the SW doesn't know about may

prevent the file from opening at all (I've seen this happen in other cases),

or it may open but ignore that layer or may open without that layer present.

One never knows because it depends on the nature of the new feature, how

Adobe codes it, and how it manifests itself in the PSD file. 

I don't know how old you let your SW get, but I am still running MS/Office

2003.  When someone sends me a file from a later version, say 2012,  when I

open the file many times I get a message about my SW being older and it runs

a converter I downloaded from MS for that purpose which downgrades the Word

or Excel file to my version of SW.  Will Adobe provide such SW for people

who do not buy into the cloud?  One never knows, but my bet is no.

Will this be an issue on day 1?  Probably not.  But as time goes by, and

Adobe adds more and more features and tools to the CC version of the

product, it's almost certain that some of them will produce structures in

the PSD file that CS 5 will not know how to decode or handle. 

However if you save your work in some non proprietary format like TIFF or

even JPG, anything you did in CC will be baked into the file as pixels and

you'll be OK.  But you'll never be able to changes whatever controls that

new adjustment layer type has - especially if it's a smart object.

Dan

I'm not sure where you got the idea that there's always backward

compatibility?  There is only backward compatibility if the developers

designed it into the product and maintain it.  I have many situations where

some SW I own can't handle a file someone sends me from a newer version of

the same product.  I suspect Adobe will not be all that eager to maintain

this capability beyond of year or so.

With regards to compatibility issues, it IS a problem. I was forced to upgrade from CS2 to CS5 when I found that I couldn't open simple layered files in CS2 which I had made in CS5. I was freelancing in ad agencies and I couldn't open files that I had kept for my portfolio on my computer back at home. I hadn't used any layer effects that were different between the two applications. At that point I decided that yes, it was probably time to upgrade. The thing about many Photoshop upgrades is that if you're a seasoned user, a lot of the new features aren't worth the upgrade and so it's worth waiting a while before coughing up for something that really makes a difference to your work process. Many of the new features seem to be targeted at people who don't realise that there are often already more effective ways of doing something, but they take more effort, skill and know how to achieve. Newbies who may have been using Photoshop for a couple of years are often excited by new features because they only see what Adobe are marketing to them and there is always so much hype about what's new. Quick fix features often don't give quality results and if you're working for print, this is important, but with many companies cutting corners to save costs, quality is taking a back seat. Instead of buying Adobe Upgrades because they are worth it, we now have to pay to be able to simply have access to the application that for many of us has become our livelihood.

Bye to this thread!

They send me a mail, that my tone here isn´t good enough.

And they will kick me out, if i go on... So I leave by choice.

Didn´t think I harm anybody - if so -  please excuse.

Also I postet a review at the product site which never could be seen (wasn´t any bad word in it but a one star rating).

I think it´s done. I also don´t want to be present under this conditions.

And there are other forums to concentrate on.

I hope you keep your opinions to CC.

You must NOT speak out against CC...

bobmepp wrote:

 

Pauls Sloss, I'm reasonably sure that I will continue to subscribe, or if not, that I will keep a copy of CS6 going if I choose to put out the big bucks single fee to do that, or that the marketplace will provide alternative software that will open the formats I use. Or, maybe, as I age, I will focus on one thing only and pare down to say, just Painter, which will open my photoshop docs that are saved in compatability mode. I also believe that Adobe is not evil, and not an absolute dictatorship, and, if the reaction is severe and broad enough, they will have a "new coke" moment and back-track, reduce the subscription price or react in some other way that will make their customers happy and protect their profits.

 

Actually, and not to troll or be depressing, what I am not happy about, is the acidification of the arctic waters, the warming of the antarctic, the patenting of basic seeds and parts of the human genome, for-profit health care, the earth's failure to cooperate on asteroid protection and instead the arming-to-the-teeth of both nations and individuals, and the buying up of newspapers and other media to control what people read and think. Look up those topics and you will see the names of corporations and their government minions who are really in the business of evil. In my mind, Adobe is not even a player in the corporate evil game.

I agree with your global concerns, however I would draw parallel with seed patenting and Creative Cloud. (and for the record I don't think Adobe is evil, just self-interested). A farmer who used to sow crops and rely on seeds from his own crops who now buys patented seeds from Monsanto that produce sterile seeds when they come to maturity, is a similar situation to a designer's Creative Cloud documents and thier subscription to Adobe. In both cases the farmer's and designer's long-term livelihood is tied to a subscription to these corporations.

When Macromedia was bought by Adobe and discontinued Freehand, I was able to keep my copy of Freehand and access the previous 10 years work. Illustrator could open some of my work, but not very well, usually with some loss of content or unfinished layout. As I had thousands of files, and still needed to use some for reprints and others to develop new templates into Illustrator or Indesign files, this work spanned many years. I wouldn't have been able to do this if I was already on Creative Cloud and for some reason had to change: can no longer afford a subscription, Adobe goes bust, I move to a country where Creative Cloud is not available or has a bad internet connection.

rosequill wrote:

 

I don't understand why people think there will be compatibility issues of any kind. Can you confirm this with cited factual information?

I know from experience. Native files from Indesign, Illustrator, Photoshop cannot be opened in previous full numbered versions of same software. New features in each software need to create saved states for some of the features you use, eg non destructive effects. You can save an interchange file in Indesign, dowsave an Illustrator file and save in compatiility mode in Photoshop but these format will lose any content that is tied to the new feature of the software you are using. You also can't collaborate with another designer on the same document if they have a different version of the software.

You can find references in Adobe's help files to working with previous versions of their software:

eg Indesign

http://helpx.adobe.com/indesign/kb/save-indesign-files-previous-versions.html

Note: Content created using features specific to your version of InDesign are sometimes modified or omitted when you open the document in the previous version. Therefore, carefully review any document opened in a previous version.

Illustrator:

http://help.adobe.com/en_US/illustrator/cs/using/WS714a382cdf7d304e7e07d0100196cbc5f-6561a .html#WS714a382cdf7d304e7e07d0100196cbc5f-655fa

Photoshop:

http://forums.adobe.com/message/4641216

Response from adobe staff:

CS6 files are backward compatible.

But when opening in an older version, you can get warnings about text layers, or lose some effects that are specific to CS6 (like strokes on shape layers).

There was a link to a petition at the start of this thread which seams to have disappeared.

If you do a search for "Adobe Systems Incorporated: Eliminate the mandatory "creative cloud" subscription model"  at   change.org, you can find it.

If Adobe state that the fact that 500, 000 people have signed up for the subscription service is proof that it's popular, then it would be interesting to see how "few" people sign this petition would it not?