Biggles,

We get that existing CS users, those who paid for their CS6 upgrade when it came out or purchased CS6 to begin with, are not going to be happy with the situation.

Just consider that those of us who did not pay for CS6, but rather, subscribed to the Creative Cloud instead, are possibly better off than we would have been shelling out all that money to get every product that we wanted.

The real question for Adobe is simple. Are they going to make more money or not? Will the subscription model be accepted in sufficient quantity to raise income and reduce expenses over what has come before?

If yes, Adobe and their stockholders win. If no, then my guess is that a new CEO will deal with the massive cleanup required.

I have stated many times that an exit strategy would alleviate many of the concerns, and that Adobe could create one without backtracking on previous statements. The could, they should and if they don't they will be reducing potential income for no reason. But they may still make more money with CC than with perpetual licenses even without an exit strategy. Only time will tell

I have stated many times that an exit strategy would alleviate many of the concerns, and that Adobe could create one without backtracking on previous statements.

Yes, it would alleviate to an extent (depends on the price, which would probably be higher than most of us would want). But they would have to backtrack; they have said no perpetual license, and any exit strategy short of a perpetual license is not an exit strategy worth discussing. But I see no downside to the easy-to-write press release that says, "We listened and..."

Steven

Agreed, as you have been an Educational user then the short term cash outlay will probably be very similar, but you know that a full price upgrader is seriously out of pocket however the math is applied.

That said you no doubt have far more individual software applications than you had previously.

There is nothing wrong with profit, but there is profit and profiiteering.........Adobe are trying the latter.

On a completely different tack............I have been involved in training within the hobbyist fraternity around where I live in the UK, fifteen years ago we used to put on a full weekend where 50/60 individuals would be taught the finer points of Premiere, a recent poll has only 10% of hobbyist users now using Premiere, the remainder use just about any you can think of.  Al this change is down to Adobe's continually raising the cost of the products.

I now have a new law.............................The higher the product cost, the more restricted is the market that is willing to buy the product.

So here I am, looking at Premiere "not responding". Why? I dared to use Adobe Dynamic Link with Encore. Reminds me again why I don't usually use dynamic link. Why am I writing this here? Well, if Adobe can't get a local link between programs to work in I-don't-know-how-many-years-now then how on earth do you expect me to be happy to trust non-local links in the future (cloud services)? You can get a nice taster of what's ahead by reading the support requests at the cloud forum..

Mark Mapes / May 9, 2013 7:33 PM wrote:

 

I just came from an all-hands meeting hosted by the executive vice-president of the Digital Media Business Unit. Both his initial comments and the Q&A were dominated by the Creative Cloud announcement and its aftermath. I think we touched on every major concern and reservation that's been raised in this thread (and, I gather, elsewhere across this forum and others). Two broad-stroke points that are worth sharing:

1. You have been heard. Adobe employees from the rank and file in the trenches up to top executives are reading these threads and noting the recurring themes.
2. Responses are in the works, ranging from clarifications on points of confusion and misinformation to measures that address particular concerns.

 

So stay tuned. It may be a week or more before all the new information is rolled out. I expect it will collected in some central location. We'll post links here.

Hey, Mark!

Is there anything further to report on this?

Cheers!

I suggest holding tight until June 17th. The release of the CC versions will come with updates about various other things that have been talked about here.

That has a hopeful ring to it!

I now have a new law.............................The higher the product cost, the more restricted is the market that is willing to buy the product.

That is a VERY old law!

Jim, its obvious to me that the concept of "etermal rental" that is angering thousands of customers, is a something you dont seem to comprehend for some reason.

I'll grant you that.  I just don't see what all the fuss is about.  (The one exception being where it does turn out to be more expensive, that one I get.)

But whether you pay once or pay forever doesn't alter the fact that once the trial ends, you do have to pay to keep using the software.  Your comment made it sound like this was a new and egregious situation caused by the subscripting model.  It isn't.  You've always had to pay once the trial ends.

Some people like the Cloud (Jim appears to be one) and some people don't

Only time will tell if the "likes" add up to more than the "dislikes"

Todd said "I suggest holding tight until June 17th. The release of the CC versions will come with updates about various other things that have been talked about here"

IF a reasonable exit strategy is one of those updates, I think even "some" of the Cloud dislikes "may" turn to likes

IF a reasonable exit strategy is one of those updates, I think even "some" of the Cloud dislikes "may" turn to likes

I'm willing to go out on a limb and use the words "most" and "will".

I'm with you there, to an extent, but for me, in the UK, pricing would need to become more equitable for me to join the "will" party. 

In addition I use only Premiere/Encore, Photoshop and Audition, so I am at the worst point of the user scale from the pricing point of view.  So I would need some movement on packaging.

I have another old, new law....................................................The Adobe law of diminishing upgrades.

On the 17th June the announcement will be made on each of the CC family upgrades.

Everybody will say......wow, that's great

A rush to sign up will happen

Then the bugs will be found

Each month this and that software will be upgraded and some of the bugs will be cleared.

After one year if a comparison of the quantity and quality of the 17th June 2013 releases is then compared to the releases in the year up to 17th June 2014, what do you think that you will find?

Year two do the same exercise, how do you think that will equate?

Do I need to go on?

Todd_Kopriva wrote:

 

I suggest holding tight until June 17th. The release of the CC versions will come with updates about various other things that have been talked about here.

I wish I could be more optimistic about the various other things but I'm not based on how Adobe has handled this to date and how they are in love in with The Cloud future. Frankly from what I've seen to date, my vote is of No Confidence in Adobe Management.

Only 9 days to a miracle or a quick goodbye to Adobe for good.

Kevin Monahan wrote:

joe bloe premiere wrote:

 

No... someone was looking for it here:

http://forums.adobe.com/message/5305225#5305225

 

They wanted to hear for themselves the CC licensing

allowing concurrent use on two systems.

I'm looking around for that very thing. There is some confusion around this I'd like to clear up.

Not sure this one ever got answered.

What is the true lowdown on concurrent use on two systems?

Does it only mean an individual can use it concurrently on two systems,

Or does it mean a single license holder (potentially an ad agency, etc)

can have two users working concurrently on two systems?

This line from the FAQ is a little ambiguous.

"Yes, you can use Creative Cloud desktop applications on

two computers at once, regardless of operating system,

for the individual associated with the Creative Cloud membership.

See the product license agreements page for more information."

Previous posts in this thread regarding this question:

Post #598

http://forums.adobe.com/message/5305486#5305486

Post #606

http://forums.adobe.com/message/5305565#5305565

Post #614

http://forums.adobe.com/message/5305675#5305675

Cheers!

The license terms say that one person can use the same single-user retail license to activate and use the software on two computers. Two people using the same single-user retail license simultaneously is a violation of the license terms.

This is spelled out in detail in the end-user license agreement:

http://www.adobe.com/products/eulas/#creativeCloud

Volume licenses and such are a different matter, of course.

Thanks, Todd.

Thanks, Todd. I still find this confusing.

This link takes us to the "Adobe Creative Cloud Products" section of the "Adobe product license agreements" page. There is one link of the right side, under versions. That link takes us to the US English section of the Adobe "Software License Agreement."

Section 2.1.3 is titled "Portable or Home Computer Use," and includes the old/current "not used at the same time" language. (I can't copy and paste from this document.) The exception cited in that paragraph is to 2.1.4, which is volume licensing.

Am I not finding the right section?

Officially, the two instances aren't supposed to be used at the same time. Officially. There is not a technical check to prevent this.

The intent is to let one person use the software on the computers that this person may use in various different locations.

Don't put me in the position of explaining to you how to circumvent the letter of the license. You can read the facts in the license agreement and draw your own conclusions.

A refreshingly (and characteristically) frank reply!

Cheers!

Now I see.

I shall aspire to comply with the letter of the agreement without accidentally reaching any conclusions that might circumvent any facts. I shall work in the spirit of the Adobe family, whether in a cloud or in a state of perpetual creativity, as my fortunes and remunerative activities may allow.

Todd is the best!

I shall aspire to comply with the letter of the agreement...

...as my fortunes and remunerative activities may allow.

Todd is the best!

Roger that.

Ae Forum's gain is Pr Forum's loss.

.

.

Todd for CEO

Vote number 1

Over a decade of Adobe loyalty.......I'm waiting

And so is Avid....

What I can't believe is that we are still waiting. Adobe could and should have had a definative answer for us by now. It seems to me that they are hoping that the anger dies down and just goes away. Almost 1000 posts and over a month later this thread is still going strong.

Adobe,

I do not want the CC.

If you would like to continue to recieve my hard earned money, you will need to sell a perpetual license version as you have always offered.

Pretty simple.

With 31,166 signatures on 1 petition, it's pretty easy to see that I am not the only one.

Also, this is not a conversation (at least not to me) about if the cloud is a good product or not. I think it looks like an excellent product, for those who wish to purchase (rent) it. This is simply about the fact that i want the product I have always been able to buy, the perpetual license version.

>What I can't believe is that we are still waiting

Only 5 more days to wait... hopefully, what Adobe has to say on June 17 will make "most" people, if maybe not "all" people, happy

965. Todd_Kopriva,

Jun 7, 2013 4:19 PM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

I suggest holding tight until June 17th. The release of the CC versions will come with updates about various other things that have been talked about here.

adobe has become ( thanks to short term goals and clueless ceo and creepy economy and global rush to the bottom via gum chewing consumer market share ) a dysfunctional company. The only thing more dysfunctional IMO is my own life and some other stuff.

If you are still waiting for good news from adobe you are an idiot like me. Face it. They are a dead duck. Get out by getting IN while you can... so your current and near term workflows use the products available without subscription...and / or do what you have to do on your own to move away from them after the first term of your subsciption. Most people are NOT into adobe editing for pro stuff anyway, as they have been dysfunctional for a number of years already... not able to break into high end editing even to the extent of simple talk shows and documentaries, news programs, etc... lets face it.. they are a dead duck.

If you are waiting for a dead duck to tell you that you are going to be FINE tomorrow, there is something fundamentally wrong with you.

Adobe could and should have had a definative answer for us by now.

I kind of think they did.

"...through discussions with the community, we have heard some concerns around our move to Creative Cloud...We want to start off by reinforcing that we continue to believe that the move to Creative Cloud will benefit the wider creative community because of the constant stream of innovation that we’re able to deliver."

https://blogs.adobe.com/creativecloud/our-move-to-creative-cloud-an-update/

Translation: We know you're upset, but we're not changing our minds.

That's kind of how I read it, anyway.

"...through discussions with the community, we have heard some concerns around our move to Creative Cloud...We want to start off by reinforcing that we continue to believe that the move to Creative Cloud will benefit the wider creative community because of the constant stream of innovation that we’re able to deliver."

Constant? Like bugs in CS5, that were not solved in CS5.5, that were deferred to CS Next when CS6 came out, that are still deferred to CC Next, but still not solved in CC7?

Where is that stream of innovation? In CC12?

OK, I see it: that we're able to deliver... which is quite different from that we will deliver...

Harm Millaard wrote:

 

"...through discussions with the community, we have heard some concerns around our move to Creative Cloud...We want to start off by reinforcing that we continue to believe that the move to Creative Cloud will benefit the wider creative community because of the constant stream of innovation that we’re able to deliver."

 

Constant? Like bugs in CS5, that were not solved in CS5.5, that were deferred to CS Next when CS6 came out, that are still deferred to CC Next, but still not solved in CC7?

 

Where is that stream of innovation? In CC12?

 

OK, I see it: that we're able to deliver... which is quite different from that we will deliver...

 

 

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Harm,

If you don't mind me asking...which NLE do you think you're going to switch to?

I'll probably stick with the perpetual license of Master Collection CS6.

Harm Millaard wrote:

 

I'll probably stick with the perpetual license of Master Collection CS6.

That's my plan also. (CS6 Production Premium)

At least until the need for new software arises.

What is "the" NLE being used by "major" production companies. Like MGM, Paramount, Universal, etc... What is considered "the" professional editor?

Or maybe I should say, if I want to move to an industry standard editor/NLE, what would it be?

John T Smith wrote:

 

>What I can't believe is that we are still waiting

 

Only 5 more days to wait... hopefully, what Adobe has to say on June 17 will make "most" people, if maybe not "all" people, happy

 

965. Todd_Kopriva,

Jun 7, 2013 4:19 PM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

I suggest holding tight until June 17th. The release of the CC versions will come with updates about various other things that have been talked about here.

I'm not going to hold my breath. The more I think about it, if Adobe was going to do something productive to bring tens of thousands of customers back they would have likely announced it by now rather than letting it go until the Cash Cow release date. The longer this drags on the less faith I have in Adobe.  The Cloud is Adobe's future and I expect nothing but more smoke and mirrors on the release date. I really think they are clueless when it comes to their customers anger. And if it's that case they can have CC. I don't want any part of the ridiculous Cloud's subscription service or this new Adobe.

On June 17th, I'm going to be prepared to jump the ship quickly before Titanic II sinks.

Adobe's competitors are eagerly waiting for my $ and loyalty.

I can't find a way to reply to the general topic vs individuals so this isn't directed at you TC9.

If this has been posted already I didn't see it. Forgive me if it has. Nevertheless, it is at the heart of the matter since it is directed at investors not customers. Investors, not customers, are the driving force behind corporate decision making in the 21st century.

http://press.adobe.com/cgi-bin/pr.cgi?show=content;rel_id=2319

Executive quotes from, "Third Quater Fiscal 2012 Finacial Results" press release:

“We’re on a path to drive millions of subscribers to our Creative Cloud offering, as well as build a billion dollar SaaS business in Digital Marketing,” said Mark Garrett, executive vice president and CFO of Adobe.  “This will drive higher long-term growth and create a large recurring revenue stream.”

From "Fortune" magazine:

"In the same way people who can't afford to buy a Lexus can usually lease one, Adobe is hoping to lure those who balked at Creative Suite's price. The company expects to have signed up 325,000 paid subscribers by the end of 2012. It claims adoption is increasing, with 11,000 new subscribers signing up each week. This month Adobe began rolling out a version for the enterprise market. Overall average revenue per user is 20% higher compared with the old product. That number will rise even further, the company says, because it is much more likely to sell support services, website hosting, or server management to cloud customers."