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960. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
jbjones Jun 15, 2013 10:54 PM (in response to Danny Michael)Danny Michael wrote:
bitm07 wrote:
I would still buy a perpetual licence Adode product that does everything I need. Over any other Photoshop alternative currently on the market. For me not buying on principle would feel like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
You'll never get that option as Adobe has made it clear no more perpetual licensing. I do stand on principle, unlike so many these days who just fall in line. By all means join the cloud if you feel it's best for you. I'm sure Adobe will be happy to have you for as long as you can pay.
I think bitm07 was refering to other's commments about not buying from Adobe ever again, even if they reversed their decision and offered perpetual license on the Creative Suite.
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961. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
bitm07 Jun 16, 2013 12:49 AM (in response to Danny Michael)You'll never get that option as Adobe has made it clear no more perpetual licensing. I do stand on principle, unlike so many these days who just fall in line. By all means join the cloud if you feel it's best for you. I'm sure Adobe will be happy to have you for as long as you can pay
I am also anti the cloud. What I mean is that in the unlikely event that Adobe does come up with a product that suits my needs in the future, I would not just dismiss it out of hand just because its from Adobe. That would not make good business sense to me. I still hope that some kind of compromise can be reached between Adobe and the thousands of anti cloud protesters.. Something like a perpetual version of the cloud software after a set period of subscription or a perpetually licensed product that falls somewhere between the cloud and Photoshop Element would suit me.
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962. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
Marcus Koch Jun 16, 2013 3:15 AM (in response to bitm07)bitm07 schrieb:
You'll never get that option as Adobe has made it clear no more perpetual licensing.
Just wanted to chime in with this:
David Wadhwani said during the MAX keynote: ".. but we curently have no plans to add features to Creative Suite."
In an interview the next day VP of Creative Solutions, Winston Hendrickson said: "In his Adobe MAX keynote, David Wadhwani said, 'We have no plans' to continue perpetual licenses. We are not ruling that out in the future."
(http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/05/08/Adobe-photoshop-cc)
Interesting that the next day Hendrickson already left a door open. I'm sure we will know more after Tuesday when the 2nd quarter numbers are published.
Adobe might have a monopoly about its software, but its customers have a monoply about their money. As less money the customers will give Adobe as quicker their plans will change. I still hope they will soon exchange the directors that are responsible for this mess. Without a change of directors there is no way of building up trust again.
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963. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
W_J_T Jun 16, 2013 7:54 AM (in response to Marcus Koch)Hey, Marcus is back. That is indeed interesting what you pointed out there, falling all over themselves.
It's been a few pages back now but did you ever look at the Adobe site info about change?
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964. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
Diablo Venom Jun 16, 2013 8:38 AM (in response to W_J_T)The bottom line....
Adobe is in a really bad predicament.
The software is enough to conduct business and the model of making new features to indirectly force users to upgrade is losing steam. People are not upgrading enough.
The cloud is a new coined business model to offer its customers SAAP software to create a steady flow of income for many reasons. One of which is to keep the company alive. They call it revenant.
The discontinuation of a perpetual licence is the typical short sited executive decision. Adobe is going through the motions based upon collected data from people that are too far removed from their customers.
This is a case of damn if you do and damn if you don't.
The problem with this drastic move to remove a perpetual option upon the introduction of the cloud model is destructive in many ways. Adobe should of made the cloud move move 3 years ago at CS5.5, but hind sight is 20/20.
Now, they are making desperate moves to save the company and destroying long time loyal users confidence. This is a worst case scenario for Adobe and I'm just shaking my head from the corporate stupidity, but do understand how dumb leaders can be with transitional periods. HP is a good example of what not to do with your product.
To have an objective point of view in how Adobe was created is key in understanding the future of said company.
Let me make this loud and clear to Adobe employees. YOUR JOB is in jeopardy. Shortly after the cloud is released on Monday, and the companies 1/4 business reports come out the following day, YOUR JOB may not be there. I fear huge layoffs coming for Adobe.
Why?
Because the management is lost and does not understand the difference between the cloud and making money.
If they don't reinstate the perpetual option for those that can afford it and the ridiculous inflated price that is required, the future of the company and the quality of its products will degrade. How much?
That depends upon how quickly Adobe can restructure their current public relations self destructive path.
AKA - relevance.
In closing, Adobe management is a bunch of bloody bozos.
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965. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
CameraAnn Jun 16, 2013 9:28 AM (in response to Diablo Venom)Right on target — on all points!
It is not only the jobs of the Adobe staff which are in peril from the arrogant maniacal decisions which have been made by their Board (most likely by a single individual who has steam-rollered his "vision" over everyone else?); but also the livelihoods of millions of others who have built their careers and their industries around their knowledge and skill at using Adobe's software.
A tragedy of untold proportions is unfolding as we watch.
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966. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
DanZemke Jun 16, 2013 10:11 AM (in response to Diablo Venom)"Let me make this loud and clear to Adobe employees. YOUR JOB is in jeopardy. Shortly after the cloud is released on Monday, and the companies 1/4 business reports come out the following day ...".
Nope, your timing is off by a quarter. Most of the impact won't be evident until their 3rd quarter earnings call in September. Besides, Adobe does most of its layoffs in October and November, and most Adobe employees aren't reading this thread.
It's not wise to hype an imminent disaster, that actually doesn't become clearly visable for months. Under promise and over-deliver.
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967. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
Diablo Venom Jun 16, 2013 10:17 AM (in response to DanZemke)Good points Dan, but I have worked for enough Silicon Valley corporations, both directly and indirectly and understand corporate behavior. The writing is on the wall. The fuse is lit. The worst kinds of disasters takes time to unravel. I believe this year will make or break the company if they don't soften their hard line decisions.
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968. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
TheCoroner9 Jun 16, 2013 2:38 PM (in response to Diablo Venom)Diablo Venom wrote:
The bottom line....
Adobe is in a really bad predicament.
Let me make this loud and clear to Adobe employees. YOUR JOB is in jeopardy. Shortly after the cloud is released on Monday, and the companies 1/4 business reports come out the following day, YOUR JOB may not be there. I fear huge layoffs coming for Adobe.
Why?
Because the management is lost and does not understand the difference between the cloud and making money.
If they don't reinstate the perpetual option for those that can afford it and the ridiculous inflated price that is required, the future of the company and the quality of its products will degrade. How much?
That depends upon how quickly Adobe can restructure their current public relations self destructive path.
AKA - relevance.
In closing, Adobe management is a bunch of bloody bozos.
Adobe even has bigger problems than that. Even if they reverse their path - which they won't - they have leaders that allowed this to happen. There would have to be a lot of changes starting at the top.
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969. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
Diablo Venom Jun 16, 2013 4:07 PM (in response to TheCoroner9)The business model has to change. This is what a lot of people don't understand. The problem is the decision to hard line their product and remove perpetual options. They can still save face, if they offer some kind of perpetual sale for those who can afford it and don't want to deal with the pain in the A$$ cloud monkey business. Most companies destroy themselves before they realize their poor decisions. This looks like the case.
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970. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
Marcus Koch Jun 16, 2013 4:19 PM (in response to W_J_T)W_J_T schrieb:
Hey, Marcus is back. That is indeed interesting what you pointed out there, falling all over themselves.
It's been a few pages back now but did you ever look at the Adobe site info about change?
Yes, I saw the site info. Ridiculous! Creative Days are in Munich this Thursday. I registered. If I still find the time I would like to make a t-shirt with "I love choice" printed on it. It would show a special point wearing such a t-shirt at Adobe events.
Browsing on Adobe's website I was presented a survey. It is very interesting that Adobe only sells the complete suite under their CC model, advocating that, because of the modern changes in the creative process, everyone needs all the products. On the other hand the survey lists the following occupations. Not one options fits the “I do all”- type.
21: *Which best describes your occupation?
Graphic Designer
Pro Photographer
Video Professional (Videographer, Editing, Motion Graphics)
Web Designer/Developer
Creative Director
Educator/Educational Administrator
Marketing Professional (CMO, Web Analyst, Social Marketer, Search)
Purchasing/Procurement Professional
Software Engineer/Application Developer
IT Professional (Non Developer)
Student
Retired
Not currently employed
Homemaker
Other Occupation not listed aboveSo Adobe is fully aware that most professionals will be specialized in one field, but since CC doesn't offer any web, standard or production versions anymore a lot of customers are just forced to pay more. I'm sure this violates anti-trust laws. Microsoft was fined, because it leveraged IE with its OS. Adobe doesn't do anything different. IE was free, but e.g. designers now have to pay for video software. They might have no need for it or would have purchased anther software instead, but if it is included why would you pay for something extra. Smells big like anti-trust to me.
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971. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
Marcus Koch Jun 16, 2013 4:30 PM (in response to Marcus Koch) -
972. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
Marcus Koch Jun 16, 2013 4:36 PM (in response to Marcus Koch)Sure I will trust Adobe with the cloud if they don't fix security holes in two years:
Two-Year-Old Flash Bug Still Allows Webcam Spying On Chrome Users -
973. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
joe bloe premiere Jun 16, 2013 4:53 PM (in response to Marcus Koch)One year-plus old known bug in Premiere CS6:
Audio and Video glitches | AVCHD footage
http://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/kb/audio-video-glitches-avchd.html
This was intruduced in CS6.
Not present in CS5, CS5.5.
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974. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
charles badland Jun 16, 2013 7:39 PM (in response to Marcus Koch)Marcus,
Nice You Tube link. It really expresses my concerns about the cloud. Adobe has done huge PR damage with their ham-handed implementation of their subscription-only model. It is the "Comcastification" of Adobe into a "take it or leave it" service rather than the creative tool it used to be. (A Comcast VP sits on the Adobe board. I'm sure she has had input on how to run a profitable monopoly, no matter how reviled the company )
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975. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
Diablo Venom Jun 16, 2013 8:13 PM (in response to charles badland)Users have contributed a HUGE amount of input to the creation and evolution of all Adobe products. And the way they thank everyone is to stick it into our A$$?
This is going to blow up bigger then anyone could ever imagine. Regime change is clearly coming. This company is going to self destruct.
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976. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
CarlosCanto Jun 16, 2013 10:33 PM (in response to Diablo Venom)watch out everyone, if you joined the cloud, take it easy tomorrow (today in some parts of the world), consult your physician before opening PS, AI, ID or any other CC application, your heart may not take so much joy to see the incredible flow of updates, new features and bug fixes coming your way...
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977. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
Andy Bay Jun 17, 2013 3:29 AM (in response to CarlosCanto)Yes, because there is so much "innovation" in these products nowadays that Adobe has to list
" improvements to rounded rectangles add the ability to adjust corner radii at any time" as one of the main new Photoshop features.
Well, it's no surprise, since Adobe has already told us they won't focus much on their "mature" products. Instead they want to take your money (not mine since I'm not signing up for the cloud) and develop tools for other people with it. They want to create completely new programs to lure in new people, but after all they have done here, I wonder how many feel enthusiastic to study anything new from Adobe. I, for one, am going to invest my time and learning efforts to products from other companies.
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978. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
Marcus Koch Jun 17, 2013 5:09 AM (in response to Andy Bay) -
979. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
bitm07 Jun 17, 2013 5:35 AM (in response to Marcus Koch)Marcus. In post 959 I posted
I still hope that some kind of compromise can be reached between Adobe and the thousands of anti cloud protesters.. Something like a perpetual version of the cloud software after a set period of subscription or a perpetually licensed product that falls somewhere between the cloud and Photoshop Element would suit me.
You replied in post 960
You'll never get that option as Adobe has made it clear no more perpetual licensing
Looks like a might get what I'm hoping for after all
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980. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
Biggles Lamb Jun 17, 2013 5:56 AM (in response to ChrisBlaggCreative)Chris
The subscription model is good for those like you who are new to the products
For those of us who have been using them for many years and who only have to buy the upgrade version it is a financial disaster.
Have a look through the posts especially Harm's on the cost modelling, it will open your eyes, or at least it should
Have a great time in the cloud,
ps
If you take my advice I'd wait a while before updating to see what bugs the new system has............it will have bugs..................thats the Adobe way, the users debug the software
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981. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
bitm07 Jun 17, 2013 6:38 AM (in response to Biggles Lamb)The subscription model is good for those like you who are new to the products
The subscription model is even worse for potential new subscribers than it is for those with existing CS products. As someone who was about to purchase Photoshop CS6 when CC was announced, I am faced with the prospect of purchasing Photoshop CS6 before subscribing to CC to safe guard my files. Not an attractive proposition or a money saver.
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982. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
Andy Bay Jun 17, 2013 7:07 AM (in response to Marcus Koch)That's a seemingly clever offer from Adobe but in reality it does nothing to address the biggest cloud concern which is that people won't be able to open artwork created with CC after the subscription ends. They are still trying to lure you into the same creative prison, but have realized that customers weren't as stupid as they hoped for and will require more tempting bates to get in. It's still a prison and I won't opt in to loose my freedom. Neither should you.
Another funny thing Adobe is doing here is making an offer that will make Creative Cloud look more popular even if people only get in to have a cheap CS6 master collection. Think about it: if someone takes this offer only to get a perpetual CS6 license, it will still look like the cloud is more popular, because this user will now be counted as cloud user. How stupid does Adobe think the stock holders are?
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983. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
ValentinOcheda Jun 17, 2013 7:10 AM (in response to Andy Bay)Well said Andy!!! CC is a trap... I'm not gonna to bite in this Adobe hook...
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984. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
Brntoki Jun 17, 2013 7:39 AM (in response to Andy Bay)I don't think there's any way that rumor is going to pan out. If it did happen, however, I may just have to read the fine print to see if I really could get a cheap CS6 master collection as it would seem. But, there is no way Adobe is going to do that.
I'll say too, though, that my first thought was that if Adobe needed a way to light a fire under their arse to innovate over the next few years to keep subscirbers, that'd just about do it. And a scarier thought that followed . . . maybe Adobe really does think this CC is actually a good idea and people will love it! They're wrong if so, but maybe they really are that delusional!?
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985. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
pknight424 Jun 17, 2013 8:32 AM (in response to Marcus Koch)I guess this depends on what they mean by "continually update CS6 to support future file and camera types." Camera types is clear, but the main issue is whether the CS6 you get at the end of the three years will work with the files you created in CC. Will edits made using CC features not in CS6 be maintained in these files? I would prefer a permanent license to the CC version at the end of the three years. And don't tell me that a company with $1 billion in profits last year can't find a way to do this.
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986. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
Marcus Koch Jun 17, 2013 8:34 AM (in response to bitm07)bitm07 schrieb:
Marcus. ...
You replied in post 960
You'll never get that option as Adobe has made it clear no more perpetual licensing
Actually, I just cited that statement in my post.
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987. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
bitm07 Jun 17, 2013 8:38 AM (in response to Brntoki)CS6 after paying 36 x $9.99 subscription payments ($359.64) sounds to good to be true to me. In the UK CS6 costs £631.20 ($990) from Amazon for the full product. So can't see this being available for new customers like myself who have not previously purchased a CS product.
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988. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
bitm07 Jun 17, 2013 8:49 AM (in response to Marcus Koch)Apologies Marcus. You were citing from a previous post.
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989. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
W_J_T Jun 17, 2013 9:00 AM (in response to Marcus Koch)http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57589309-92/adobe-competitors-pounce-after-subscription-b acklash/
Adobe competitors pounce after subscription backlash
Companies like Corel, Xara, Nitro, Nuance, Quark, and Pixelmator are taking advantage of customers' displeasure with Adobe's shift from selling Creative Suite perpetual licenses to Creative Cloud subscriptions.
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990. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
dhl1 Jun 17, 2013 9:33 AM (in response to Marcus Koch)Have you seen this?
http://photorumors.com/2013/06/16/adobe-is-considering-new-pricing-mod els-for-creative-cloud/
What if you already own CS6? Sorry, after three years, they need to offer a copy of the current software, frozen at its current feature set. Anything less is not enough.
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991. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
Biggles Lamb Jun 17, 2013 9:55 AM (in response to dhl1)Great idea, but and it is a big BUT after three years just you wait and see what major leaps the likes of Premiere, AE, Encore, Photoshop and Audition will have made
I predict that after the initial CC surge in the next few days that there will be not enough future changes to warrant paying the vastly inflated prices for three years of Cash Cow subscriptions.
On the other hand the present bloatware will make leaps and bounds forward
Col
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992. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
Andy Bay Jun 17, 2013 12:09 PM (in response to Biggles Lamb)Is there some launch event today? I can't find anything on the Adobe website.
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993. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
gepkes Jun 17, 2013 12:15 PM (in response to Andy Bay)The release date is June 17th, 2014.
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994. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
charles badland Jun 17, 2013 12:27 PM (in response to gepkes)The release date is June 17th, 2014.
First thing to make me laugh all day.
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995. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
CarlosCanto Jun 17, 2013 12:46 PM (in response to gepkes)gepkes wrote:
The release date is June 17th, 2014.
hahahaha...good one
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996. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
CarlosCanto Jun 17, 2013 12:47 PM (in response to Andy Bay)Andy Bay wrote:
Is there some launch event today? I can't find anything on the Adobe website.
no, they'll sneak it in in the middle of the night
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997. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
TheCoroner9 Jun 17, 2013 3:56 PM (in response to W_J_T)W_J_T wrote:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57589309-92/adobe-competitors-pounce- after-subscription-backlash/
Adobe competitors pounce after subscription backlash
Companies like Corel, Xara, Nitro, Nuance, Quark, and Pixelmator are taking advantage of customers' displeasure with Adobe's shift from selling Creative Suite perpetual licenses to Creative Cloud subscriptions.
And after 3 yrs they can raise the price to anything. Most of your users don't want subscriptions period.
I previously said they were clueless and this pretty much proves it.
Taking my $ and leaving Adobeland.
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998. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
Marcus Koch Jun 17, 2013 4:26 PM (in response to TheCoroner9)
There was a discussion on the Adobe cloud facebook page, regarding:What happens to Typekit webfonts if a subscription is ended?
I added:
If you design a website you have the choice to use free web fonts like Google fonts, purchase a web font at a font store, e.g. myfonts.com, or use a font subscription service like typekit. You have to consider the pros and cons of each option. Free fonts are free, but the selection is limited. With subscriptions services like typekit you have access to a lot of fonts for a flat yearly fee (e.g. $49 for 500.000 page views per month). Purchased web fonts can be licensed for perpetual use and for use on multiple websites. Cost for fonts is cost that the client has to cover. Subscriptions are great if the client uses a lot of different fonts, but you need to be aware that the fonts can’t be stored on your server and if the subscription server is down your website won’t display well. So you need to balance value, price and availability and decide what is best in the specific case. Here you still have the choice to select what’s best for you resp. your client (very different from CC).
Adobe added typekit into CC so designers will use them and then have their clients pay for them. I think this violates anti-trust laws. Adobe should be forced to give users a choice, so that they can use other subscription based fonts from other companies or perpetual licensed fonts form other companies. Here Adobe uses its suite to favour its own service. (just think about Windows and IE). If Adobe would have integrated a general interface were various font shops can provide a try and buy feature, like the plugin that fontshop.com offers, the designer or his/her client would really benefit from this time-saving creative workflow. At the moment it’s merely a benefit for Adobe. -
999. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
Jeff A Wright Jun 17, 2013 4:30 PM (in response to Marcus Koch)Marcus you can find information on how to add your own licensed fonts to Typekit at http://help.typekit.com/customer/portal/articles/6783-bring-your-own-license-to-typekit.





