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      • 1,080. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
        Andy Bay Community Member

        As a side note, this staff member admitted Adobe's burying tactics, regarding the "choice" of CS6.

        http://forums.adobe.com/message/5425608

         

        Which is why the CEO's recent statement is so funny to read:

         

        "CEO Shantanu Narayen talked up the cloud at every turn during the call with financial analysts, stating that the "overwhelming" majority of customers that bought via its website had chosen Creative Cloud rather than CS 6, the last boxed version."


        What a surprise that customers have a hard time buying software that is buried deep and hidden on purpose!

        • 1,081. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
          Diablo Venom Community Member

          Forget about the numbers for a minute. Look at the marketing damage this less then well thought out transition has created. The public relations nightmares have only just begun. It's sad actually. Very sad for all involved in the process. Set the bridge on fire and go stand on it.

          • 1,082. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
            Butch_M Community Member

            Andy Bay wrote:


            What a surprise that customers have a hard time buying software that is buried deep and hidden on purpose!

             

            Or ...that anyone with CS4 or older that would like to upgrade to CS6 can't do so without paying full price for CS6 ... of course customers are going to choose CC if they decide to buy since there is basically no option ... It's like Henry Ford and the Model T ... "You can buy it in any color you want as long as it is black." ... Is it any wonder that statistically speaking, the most popular color of that car was ... black? ...

            • 1,083. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
              Greg Bohn Community Member

              Andy Bay wrote:

               

              As a side note, this staff member admitted Adobe's burying tactics, regarding the "choice" of CS6.

              http://forums.adobe.com/message/5425608

               

              Which is why the CEO's recent statement is so funny to read:

               

              "CEO Shantanu Narayen talked up the cloud at every turn during the call with financial analysts, stating that the "overwhelming" majority of customers that bought via its website had chosen Creative Cloud rather than CS 6, the last boxed version."


              What a surprise that customers have a hard time buying software that is buried deep and hidden on purpose!

               

                 I thought it was interesting how they were spinning the numbers.

               

                To me, I would compare it to a fast-food stand that used to sell hot-dogs and hamburgers. Hamburgers outsold hot-dogs 8 to 1. Then they decide to stop selling hamburgers.

               

                When some customers buy some more of the only remaining item (hot-dogs), they tout that this confirms their decision to stop selling hamburgers was clearly justified...

              • 1,084. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
                Andy Bay Community Member

                Well put Greg, that's a good example!

                • 1,085. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
                  TheCoroner9 Community Member

                  Greg - they are spinning the numbers with their Adobe surveys as well. If you tell them in a Survey that you are unhappy with CC and are not likely to use it. The survey immediately ends and you are told that you didn't quality for their survey. Despite the Adobe survey telling you that they want you to talk so Adobe can listen.

                  • 1,086. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
                    W_J_T Community Member

                    I wondered where this thread went, but then I realized there are so many issues and problems with the cloud too many cloud users where posting questions and buried this thread.

                    • 1,087. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
                      Greg Bohn Community Member

                      TheCoroner9 wrote:

                       

                      Greg - they are spinning the numbers with their Adobe surveys as well. If you tell them in a Survey that you are unhappy with CC and are not likely to use it. The survey immediately ends and you are told that you didn't quality for their survey. Despite the Adobe survey telling you that they want you to talk so Adobe can listen.

                       

                      You don't want any pesky reality conflicting with the pre-conceived narrative being told...

                      • 1,088. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
                        Brntoki Community Member

                        I posted this in response to staff in the thread you linked to. What do you think? Is it just me?

                         

                        Is it just me, or is there a deliberate blurring of lines here?

                         

                        It sounds like you're saying that CS6 products can be downloaded and installed from within a cloud subscription only. Now, perhaps that is what the OP wants, I'm not 100% sure (though it didn't sound like it at first --- he may be under the impression that it's the only way to actually dl cs6).

                         

                        Either way, I suggest you be very, very, clear or you are going to end up dealing with extremely pissed off customers. If I were looking for CS6 and staff suggested, or carelessly made it seem, that I could only get it by first getting a CC subscription, I would make it my life  mission to destroy Adobe (Yeah, that's exaggeration, but I was already being wildly hypothetical anyway --- there isn't a snowball's chance in hell I'd ever pony up for anything with Adobe printed on it).

                        • 1,089. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
                          jbjones Community Member

                          wms1 wrote:

                           

                          Adobe are you listening??????? I was planning on upgrading to CS7 until

                          this subscription crap came out. As it is I bought Corel Draw Graphics

                          suite X6.

                           

                          I've been thinking about getting a copy of X6. How does it handle?

                          • 1,090. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
                            Diablo Venom Community Member

                            https://twitter.com/xDanMorgan/status/337667336339345409

                             

                            The common tech support from Adobe India, is sorry that I can't answer your question, let me transfer you to another assocuate higher up. The problem is the dip $HIT higher up is just ad dumb and the prior moron.

                            • 1,091. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
                              Butch_M Community Member

                              Yellamokara wrote:

                               

                              One further advantage is that the subscription model will be effective in combating piracy. Not the sort of piracy where the software is hacked to circumvent its protection, but the piracy where someone buys the software then installs it on their computer, their brothers computer, their brother's girlfriend's computer, their brother's girlfirend's hairdresser's computer and 30 other random people. Buying one license and installing it on every computer in the company (wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more, say no more). CC will put a stop to all that, and that is the REAL reason for the outcry.

                               

                              Yep ... CC put a stop to that ... but I'm not sure it lasted 24 hours ... while I don't condone what has reportedly been accomplished in a few hours ... I told you the CC model would not curtail such efforts ...

                               

                              http://petapixel.com/2013/06/19/adobe-photoshop-cc-has-apparently-been-cracked-one-day-aft er-launch/

                               

                              http://fstoppers.com/adobe-photoshop-cc-has-already-been-pirated-in-just-one-day

                              • 1,092. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
                                ManndarrPat Community Member

                                It's always possible to wake someone from sleep, but no amount of noise will wake someone who is pretending to be asleep.

                                Adobe is forgetting one important thing that all the loyal customer who are spending their time writing post they have paid for cs6 or any version, that may be $500 or whatever is 0.000001 percent of your earnings.

                                 

                                Adobe don't forget one of the interesting law of science by Newton, every action has equal or opposite reaction it also applicable to marketing side too. Its just a matter of time. And even worst part is considering and forcing the customer - instead of listening to the customer.

                                 

                                I think we are not in a position to send message to adobe about creative cloud but Wall Street will send message to adobe.

                                 

                                Also hats off to Steve Job's vision when he ditched flash, one extract from his Thoughts on Flash published in 2010, he forecasted

                                 

                                Adobe’s Flash products are 100% proprietary. They are only available from Adobe, and Adobe has sole authority as to their future enhancement, pricing, etc. While Adobe’s Flash products are widely available, this does not mean they are open, since they are controlled entirely by Adobe and available only from Adobe. By almost any definition, Flash is a closed system.

                                • 1,093. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
                                  teho59 Community Member

                                  wms1 wrote:

                                   

                                  Adobe are you listening???????

                                   

                                  When a company is listening to their customer this can happen: http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/update

                                   

                                  Microsoft turned around 100% on all their new restriction on XBox due to the feedback from their customers!

                                  But, the BIG differences with this case and Adobe is that Microsoft and Xbox is in a much tougher marked and has competition. Adobe is much more alone. But they will get a lot more comptetition (or piracy will increase) if they don't turn around too and start listening to their customers.

                                   

                                  Message was edited by: teho59

                                  • 1,094. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
                                    Paul_Taylor Community Member

                                    teho59 wrote:

                                     

                                    wms1 wrote:

                                     

                                    Adobe are you listening???????

                                     

                                    When a company is listening to their customer this can happen: http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/update

                                     

                                    Microsoft turned around 100% on all their new restriction on XBox due to the feedback from their customers!

                                    But, the BIG differences with this case and Adobe is that Microsoft and Xbox is in a much tougher marked and has competition. Adobe is much more alone. But they will get a lot more comptetition (or piracy will increase) if they don't turn around too and start listening to their customers.

                                     

                                    Message was edited by: teho59

                                     

                                    They really don't have any competition unlike XBox, Office etc. They bought up the competition. That's why they can take thier customers to the cleaners. Shame it was under the guise of regular updates (which despite them saying otherwise, can be done online and set aside with permanent licenses at any time) and piracy protection (which, as above, looks like it has already been circumvented).

                                     

                                    They are listening alright - just choosing not to hear, while hoping that the Captive Customers bank roll the company. I hope each and every member of staff feels proud they are working for a company that (based on recent marketing releases and feedback here) many users no longer trust to speak a word of truth. 

                                     

                                    I wonder if BBC Watchdog would be interested in doing a program on them and their 'happy' customers.

                                     

                                    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mg74

                                    • 1,095. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
                                      bitm07 Community Member

                                      I'm considering purchasing Coral software as well.  The survey gave me hope that a version of CC that made business sense was on the way, but if they are only accepting pro CC opinions I see little hope of a positive outcome.

                                      • 1,096. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
                                        wms1 Community Member

                                        I only recently made the purchase however like Adobe, Corel offers a thirty day free trial. It can be found at http://www.corel.com/corel/product/index.jsp?pid=prod4260069&cid=catalog20038&segid=570000 6 Down load a copy try it out and see how you like it. From my very limited experience there is a lot of usefulness there, but it seems to have its strengths and weaknesses, just like previous versions of CS. The photo editing portion is very diferent, and seems to lack some of my favorite photoshop tools, but that could easily mean that I just havent found the corisponding tool yet. (I'be been using photoshop sense CS-2 and Elements before that going back to the predicessor of elements 1, so Im far more famelear with those tool icons and where they are found that with this new program).

                                         

                                        From what I have seen so far Draw is more powerful than Paint, unless you are actually using the program to paint with, There eem to be more options in painting (which is something I do not do) than in photo editing. As for some of teh other pieces of the suite I haven't used them enough to get a feel for them yet.

                                        • 1,097. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
                                          bitm07 Community Member

                                          I download the trial of Coral PaintShop Pro (X5 ultimate a think) a while back.  Seemed to have a good range of features however the RAW processor was extremely basic compared to Lightroom 4.  So am hoping that future versions of Lightroom don't become subscription only.  Other than that I think I could live with Paintshop

                                          • 1,098. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
                                            Lee Jay Community Member

                                            Adobe needs to take a lesson from Microsoft:

                                             

                                            http://beta.fool.com/markhibben/2013/06/20/microsoft-does-an-xbox-one-eighty/37899/?source =eogyholnk0000001

                                             

                                            (emphasis added)

                                            Microsoft Does an Xbox One – Eighty

                                            "In the announcement, Microsoft reversed all the essential elements of the DRM system it had intended to impose with Xbox One (XB1).  Gone is the requirement to be always connected to the Internet, or check in with Microsoft once a day.  Any disk-based single player game will be playable offline after installation, although the disc will need to be in the tray.  Also gone are the new limitations on used games.  Sharing, lending, or giving disc-based games will work as it does on Xbox 360.

                                            The speed with which Microsoft caved on DRM has been truly breathtaking. I really didn't expect it to come before Sony's PS4 and the XB1 had an opportunity to go toe-to-toe in the market place, and that wasn't going to happen before the end of the year, since Sony had announced a late December release. 

                                            Apparently Microsoft read some of the polls I mentioned in my last post on the subject, "Sony and Microsoft Battle for Hearts and Minds at E3."  The response to Microsoft's DRM approach was resoundingly negative, and continuing to pursue it would have set Microsoft up for a flop of epic proportions. "

                                            ...

                                            • 1,099. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
                                              Greg Bohn Community Member

                                              > Adobe needs to take a lesson from Microsoft:

                                               

                                                In the Microsoft case, I think it was the very real threat of the Sony PS4 that made the difference to get them to make a U-turn.

                                               

                                                In Adobe's case, they seem to be counting of the lack of any single big threat. So with Adobe, its "Customers be damned, full steam ahead!". (Not that MS wouldn't have done the same thing if they thought they could've gotten away with it...)

                                              • 1,100. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
                                                Andy Bay Community Member

                                                I think you are right.

                                                 

                                                Adobe does have one huge threat though: The fact that most people will simply not see the need to upgrade. I think their old software is in a way their biggest competitor.

                                                 

                                                There is absolutely nothing must-have in CC.

                                                 

                                                First I thought Cinema 4D light might be a killer feature for AE. Until I read what Mylenium had to say about the product (=it sucks). For those of you who don't know him, Mylenium is propably in the top 5 of voluntary contributors to the Adobe forums and he has an amazing amount of technical knowledge. When he says something suck, I believe it.

                                                • 1,101. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
                                                  bababongatwo Community Member

                                                  There a link to his comment? As I OWN the right to use Cinema 4D studio, the Bridge between AE and C4D is the only feature which sounds interesting to me. But I had my doubts about, that this could already work in a satisfying manner. If I can hear now, that it sucks I would be glad. As I feel no disapointment about, not to have it - as CashCow (CC) is unacceptable, and I will never subscribe.
                                                  BtW: cinema itself is far away from a product that sucks. Even the bridge between both might be made a little bit to fast (they have to catch Cloudies and so I think, they did that very fast and buggy...)

                                                  ----------

                                                  CC = Cash Cow = Terminating the word "Archive" in digital future = Lifelong dependency = NoGo = Never

                                                  • 1,102. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
                                                    creativetta Community Member

                                                    I too will never sign up to the captive cloud! I have everything I need with the Creative Suite. Adobe can spin this however they wish but I have all the tools I need for as long as I need and don't need any of that ridiculous nonsense regarding bells and whistles and tweaky upgrades. Once they decide to revert this absolute colossal disaster of a decision, then maybe, just maybe I'll think about moving forward with Adobe. And if my computer dies before that, I still won't subcribe to cc just on principle. I'll find other means rather than giving any more of my money to this greedy and immoral company.

                                                    • 1,103. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
                                                      Diablo Venom Community Member

                                                      Adobe does not care about you/us.

                                                       

                                                      What will stop users from using CS6 is the lack of access to CC files. If you are an individual user and live in a bubble, you will not be affected. If you receive files from others, it becomes a problem. Adobe is betting on this problem.

                                                       

                                                      Unfortunately, Adobe disregards the fact that public relations has been greatly damaged and understands the risk with damaging your good faith.  But alas, they don't care as clearly stated by their actions. They are betting that you will have no choice, but to join the cloud. In the short term, they are willing to sacrifice good will, customers, sales and general well being of all corporations that use Adobe products.

                                                       

                                                      Complain all you want. They could care less.  Well for now, until it affects their bottom line, but they are betting this strong armed move to the cloud, you shall join.

                                                      • 1,104. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
                                                        creativetta Community Member

                                                        Adobe does not care about you/us.

                                                         

                                                        What will stop users from using CS6 is the lack of access to CC files. If you are an individual user and live in a bubble, you will not be affected. If you receive files from others, it becomes a problem. Adobe is betting on this problem.

                                                         

                                                        Unfortunately, Adobe disregards the fact that public relations has been greatly damaged and understands the risk with damaging your good faith.  But alas, they don't care as clearly stated by their actions. They are betting that you will have no choice, but to join the cloud. In the short term, they are willing to sacrifice good will, customers, sales and general well being of all corporations that use Adobe products.

                                                         

                                                        Complain all you want. They could care less.  Well for now, until it affects their bottom line, but they are betting this strong armed move to the cloud, you shall join.

                                                        Oh we'll see Diablo. Time will tell the ultimate story here.

                                                        • 1,105. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
                                                          Andy Bay Community Member

                                                          There a link to his comment?

                                                          There you go, Mylenium calling the feature a nightmare:

                                                           

                                                          http://myleniumblog.com/2013/06/18/creative-awful/

                                                           

                                                          And no, he is not referring to the actual Cinema 4D program (it's a nice program), only the "so called" AE support for it in CC.

                                                          • 1,106. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
                                                            bababongatwo Community Member

                                                            Thanks.
                                                            I´m not longer unhappy, that I can´t have this (I will never subscribe to the CashCow).
                                                            Now there is really nothing I miss with my CS6.
                                                            Think the Cineware announcement was more an gimmick (like many others) to catch as much Cloudies as possible.

                                                            ----------

                                                            CC = Cash Cow = Terminating the word "Archive" in digital future = Lifelong dependency = NoGo = Never

                                                            • 1,107. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
                                                              Chazinbermuda Community Member

                                                              if the survey only accepted pro cc opinions then adobe will be feeding false data to its investors which is a serious fraud situation not to mention a breaking of sec rules

                                                              • 1,108. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
                                                                Diablo Venom Community Member

                                                                Business ehtics 101 is not on Adobe's list of things to do lately.

                                                                • 1,109. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
                                                                  Kwan Parker Community Member

                                                                  Test to just to see should this coment show up . . . and I'm not still banned for insulting Adobe pets.

                                                                   

                                                                  Does this post violate Adobe rules?

                                                                  • 1,110. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
                                                                    TheCoroner9 Community Member

                                                                    Chazinbermuda wrote:

                                                                     

                                                                    if the survey only accepted pro cc opinions then adobe will be feeding false data to its investors which is a serious fraud situation not to mention a breaking of sec rules

                                                                     

                                                                    That's what crossed my mind when the survey quickly ended after the 1st CC question. They should have at least asked why their customer wasn't highly likely to use CC in the next 2 yrs.  If I was a board member or investor I would be pretty upset.

                                                                    • 1,111. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
                                                                      Diablo Venom Community Member

                                                                      Adobe does not care how you feel. Like what we are doing or go jump in a creek.

                                                                      • 1,112. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
                                                                        SoilentGreen Community Member

                                                                        Quark has now taken the first step.....

                                                                         

                                                                         

                                                                        Dear Customer,

                                                                        I’m personally writing to you in order to inform you about an important policy change and how this will impact you.

                                                                        From July 1, 2013, Quark Software will only support upgrading from one previous version of QuarkXPress to the current version.

                                                                         

                                                                        Blah.... Blahhhh.....  Etc.......

                                                                         


                                                                        Yours sincerely,

                                                                        Gavin Drake
                                                                        Vice President of Marketing
                                                                        Quark Software Inc.


                                                                        • 1,113. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
                                                                          pknight424 Community Member

                                                                          It just gets more and more fun!  Adobe cannot be bothered with maintaining CS and CC versions at the same time.  Too much bother, or too much expense, or whatever.  I just fired up InDesign CS6.  What do I see on the splash screen that lists recent files?  A pitch for CC!  They have time to push ads to my CS6 software, but they can't maintain it. 

                                                                          • 1,114. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
                                                                            flaming1 Community Member

                                                                            "As a result of feedback…"

                                                                             

                                                                            Microsoft have done a complete about-face and backed down after their customers voiced their opposition…

                                                                             

                                                                            Xbox One will not require regular online check-ins or place restrictions on game-lending “as a result of feedback from the Xbox community,” Microsoft announced today. The announcement is a complete reversal of the company's previously announced DRM policy for games on the Xbox One."

                                                                             

                                                                            …so if someone as big as Microsoft can change their ways based on customer feedback, why can't Adobe?

                                                                             

                                                                            I guess it is because Microsoft have a competititor lined up to take their unhappy customers (PS4) and Adobe have no competition.

                                                                            • 1,115. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
                                                                              Kwan Parker Community Member

                                                                              Competitors really haven't caught on . . . yet.  For instance, Corel offers only a small time window offer to Adobe perpetual license holders to upgrade to thier software.

                                                                               

                                                                              Don't know . . . but maybe the upsurge in Cash Cow subscribers was due to curosity and opportunity.  Competitors need to target us when the discount and curosity expires . . . about a year from now.

                                                                               

                                                                              My perpetual licensed CS 6 Master Collection is still viable for awhle.  Why would I switch until it was less productive than software offered by others?

                                                                               

                                                                              Kinda like an Adobe vulture saftety nest . . .. dontcha think?

                                                                              • 1,116. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
                                                                                Kwan Parker Community Member

                                                                                Know anybody who hosts a "I hate Adobe!" website?  I'll join.

                                                                                • 1,117. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
                                                                                  Kwan Parker Community Member

                                                                                  adobe doesn't care.  Why should they?  They;re a virtual monopoly.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  They're an space age . . . next generation . . . what I say customers will do customers will do.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Adobe is our pimp daddy.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  We let Adobe become our Pimp because they made all the right choices for thier customers . . . till now.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Now Adobe pimps only for benefit of investors and stock holders.

                                                                                  • 1,118. Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
                                                                                    Pauls Sloss Community Member

                                                                                    Kwan Parker wrote:

                                                                                     

                                                                                     

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Don't know . . . but maybe the upsurge in Cash Cow subscribers was due to curosity and opportunity.  Competitors need to target us when the discount and curosity expires . . . about a year from now.

                                                                                     

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Adobe really don't make the terms clear (particularly that you don't get to keep the software) on their main sales pages and email advertising. Simply put, the advertising reads -- get all these apps for a monthly fee. You really have to drill into the FAQ to get the nitty gritty ... and the terms linked from the FAQ are the general Adobe terms, not the CC terms. I've only seen the actual CC terms when my CS6 application manager updated.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    So I expect that even though rental suits some, other subscribers won't be fully aware of what they have signed up for. I know some of my colleagues didn't expect that the CC subscription plan meant they don't get to keep the software, they were expecting that it was some kind of hire-purchase plan.

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