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      • 320. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
        Steven L. Gotz Community Member

        I have been spending an enormous amount of time on successful photographer's sites. It is difficult to decide to become a photographer and not look at other people's work to see what kind of shots you want to emulate.

         

        There are two ways to look at photography nowadays it seems.

         

        There are those who shoot photographs of what they see and tweak them in Lightroom or Photoshop. I shoot RAW so I pretty much have to use one or the other. I would primarily fall into this category. I shoot what I see through the lens, even if it means I had to create the situation and the lighting, etc. I do my best to make things look the way I remember them, (or wish they had been).

         

        Then there are those who use compositing to create things that were never there in the first place. I have been known to do that, but not so much anymore.

         

        In either case, I am told that Elements can do 80% to 90% of what is needed by photographers and now Lightroom 5 has made this even more possible with the addition of some of the features that used to be handled by Photoshop.

         

        The following video might explain my new found point of view. I am basically listening to Jared Polin and Scott Kelby. Jared is dangerous because he is quite convincing about how I should spend my money. I shoot RAW because of him, have two lav mics he recommended and my camera bag was chosen because of one of his videos. I am not unhappy with any of this, I just have to be careful watching him tout new stuff.

         

        Scott's videos have shown me how to look at photographs from a photographers viewpoint. And his Photoshop stuff has helped me enormously.

         

        You can watch the entire hour or just jump to 36:20 to see what I mean.

         

        • 321. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
          444333222111 Community Member

          There are two ways to look at photography nowadays it seems.

           

          Good luck with that!

          • 322. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
            Steven L. Gotz Community Member

            Good luck with that!

             

            I have no clue what you meant by that.

             

            If you disagree, I would like to hear why. It seems pretty clear to me. The two basic priciples are "create then photograph" (and tweak) and "photograph then create".

             

            Of course, I have seen pictures created with Photoshop that have never been near a camera, yet I would swear that they were photographs if I had not been told otherwise.

            • 323. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
              Trevor.Dennis Community Member

              OK Steven.  That's an interesting post.  I'm in New Zealand where we have the PSNZ which represents non-professionals, and is either directly or indirectly involved, in a number of national and regional Exhibitions and Salons.  They post a number of successful images on a flickr site:

               

              http://www.flickr.com/photos/psnz

               

              Then we have the NZIPP which represents professional photographers, and they have their annual Iris Awards.  There a re number of galleries from last year’s winners here:

               

              http://www.nzipp.org.nz/nzippweb/Default.aspx?tabid=422

               

              Both have a high percentage of heavily edited images.  I just had a quick look and the NZIPP had a ‘very’ high percentage!  It doesn’t matter what your own opinions are about Photoshopped imagery.  If you want to compete at National and International levels, if the rules allow it, people are going to do it, and clients are going to want it because those images have impact and attract attention.

               

              I know for a fact, that some of those pictures were done with nothing more with Lightroom using presets.  I don’t use LR, but from what I have seen, you can get a lot those Topaz, Perfect Suite, and Nik filter looks with LR presets, and most of them are free.  Of the rest, I wonder how many used Elements?  My guess is very few, and they mostly used a version of Photoshop.

              • 324. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
                Steven L. Gotz Community Member

                Trevor,

                 

                Those links led me to some perfect examples of what I mean.

                 

                The NZ Photographer of the Year 2012 is someone from the second category. She makes art with her camera, sure, but the pictures on display show off her Photoshop talents as much her photographic talents. (Both appear to be considerable.) I have no idea how she does what she does and would not presume to guess if she could do that with Photoshop Elements. I would assume she needs the full version.

                 

                I am just guessing, because it would be easy enough to get fooled, but going out on a limb I would say that the winners in Photojournalism, Portrait Classic, and most of the travel photos are in the first category. They could use Lightroom 5 for almost everything and only go into Photoshop now and then or only for small touchups. They could probably get away with Photoshop Elements.

                 

                Of course, I just did a lot of generalizing, and some of what I saw might have been heavily Photoshopped when I thought they were not, and some not at all when I thought they were.

                 

                As for Lightroom, I suggest that people watch as many of these 100 short videos as it takes to get the idea that they are missing out on something.

                 

                http://photoshopuser.com/lightroom/

                • 325. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
                  Alan Craven Community Member

                  There has just been a fuss in the UK about the award of a photographic prize to a person who took someone elses published photograph, without permission, manipulated it, and submitted the modified image to the competition.  She argued that nowhere in the terms and conditions did it state that the starting point for an entry must be a photograph that you took yourself.

                   

                  After much argument the award was witheld, I believe.

                  • 326. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
                    Steven L. Gotz Community Member

                    As I learn to take photographs with the intention of hopefully having someone actually call mine "Fine Art Photographs" one of these days, I am seeing a severe blurring of the line between what I consider a photograph (capture what is on the other side of the lens) and Photoshop (create whatever you have the talent to create).

                     

                    I shoot RAW. Blame Jared Polin for that. I can't publish a single photograph without Lightroom or Camera RAW. Unless I want to go back to shooting JPG and letting camera settings almost completely decide what the image should look like instead of letting me do it after the fact based on all of the information available to me in the RAW file.

                     

                    So while I would probably not vote for the winner of a photography contest who had done more than basic retouching to achieve the final image, I can certainly understand why other people would vote the other way.

                     

                    The idea of using someone else's photograph for a photography contest is almost obscene. With or without permission.

                     

                    But what do I know? In seven months I still haven't taken a photograph I deem worth getting printed to frame and put on my wall. Well, I took a couple I like of a young lady but I doubt my wife would be happy to have her on my wall until she was just one of many different photographs.

                    • 327. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
                      Bryan from barrie Community Member

                      I generally stay away from most forums and I usually had upgraded photoshop every 2nd release *(which was fairly standard). I added Lightroom to the mix a few years back and have been happy until now. My desire for new upgrades in photoshop and lightrom prompted a visit to my Adobe Account. I couldn't get in. Isearched for upgrade pricing and couldn't find anything for CS5 to CS6.

                       

                      I've always been fair and paid for my software and I enjoyed the "secure feeling" of belonging to the photoshop family.  Now it's evaporating and I'm thoroughly confused. I can't see an upgarde path to CS6 yet sales tells me it's available  for $199.00 US. Lightroom is a steal at $75- $79.

                       

                      I'm retired and I don't mind paying a reasonable amount to stay current but Adobe has gone nuts, I'll be a frosty day in hell when I pay a subscription to a bunch of greedy and quite foolish people to maintain a connection with an entity that I no longer understand. using this business model they'll be sharing office space with Qwark and Wordperfect sooner than later. I do need the full functionality of photoshop layers and I quite enjoy the instant gratification afforded by using Lightroom. but as a retiree I can't pay the same as a pro photographer. Photography is an important part of my life and now that I'm retired there are far too many door knobs trying to relieve themselves in my morning bowl of cocopuffs.

                       

                      I contacted sales on the chat line and was told by some person located in East Asia that CS6 was available for $199. I have yet to find a link to any area on adobe's site that confiorms that. It also sounds that this is the last such "non cloud" kick at the can. The other major rub is dealing with slave labour on the other side of the world. People that institute offshore call centers should be forced to deal with them so that they may see the error of their ways.

                       

                      I hate to admit it but if there was a hack I just may not get on my high horse and preach about software legitimacy as I have always done. I feel soiled to put it politely

                      • 328. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
                        Steven L. Gotz Community Member

                        Just out of curiosity, have you given Photoshop Elements a trial run?

                        • 329. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
                          rob_ashcroft Community Member

                          Bryan from barrie wrote:

                           

                          I searched for upgrade pricing and couldn't find anything for CS5 to CS6.

                           

                          I haven't tried this myself as I'm already on CS6. You can't get it on Amazon, but it's here... http://www.next-tech.de/adobe-photoshop-cs6-upgrade-from-cs5-5-win-mac-download.html

                           

                          There is also a MAC version.

                          • 330. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
                            uhanepono Community Member

                            YOU CAN STILL UPGRADE, REALLY, TRULY!

                             

                            The link to the upgrade page has been posted many times in thsi thread. Here it is again. Please everone repost this often as it seems to get buried and noonee reads the whole thread at this point.

                             

                            uhanepono wrote: (A long time ago)

                             

                            YOU CAN still upgrade..!! really, truly. Here is the link

                            http://www.adobe.com/products/catalog/cs6._sl_id-contentfilter_sl_cata log_sl_software_sl_creativesuite6.html?start=10

                             

                            1. In the Photoshop CS6 row, click the Buy link
                            2. "I want to buy:", click on the dropdown menu and select Upgrade
                            3. click "I own" and on the dropdown menu select the relevant product which you already own
                            4. Follow the prompts from there to complete the purchase

                             

                            Bryan from barrie wrote:

                             

                            My desire for new upgrades in photoshop and lightrom prompted a visit to my Adobe Account. I couldn't get in. Isearched for upgrade pricing and couldn't find anything for CS5 to CS6.

                            • 331. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
                              uhanepono Community Member

                              ON THE ABOBE SITE YOU CAN UPGRADE

                               

                              http://www.adobe.com/products/catalog/cs6._sl_id-contentfilter_sl_cata log_sl_software_sl_creativesuite6.html?start=10

                              rob_ashcroft wrote:

                               

                              Bryan from barrie wrote:

                               

                              I searched for upgrade pricing and couldn't find anything for CS5 to CS6.

                               

                              I haven't tried this myself as I'm already on CS6. You can't get it on Amazon, but it's here... http://www.next-tech.de/adobe-photoshop-cs6-upgrade-from-cs5-5-win-mac -download.html

                               

                              There is also a MAC version.

                              • 332. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
                                rob_ashcroft Community Member

                                uhanepono wrote:

                                 

                                ON THE ABOBE SITE YOU CAN UPGRADE

                                 

                                http://www.adobe.com/products/catalog/cs6._sl_id-contentfilter_sl_cata log_sl_software_sl_creativesuite6.html?start=10

                                 

                                The link I gave is £157. But I suspect it doesn't include VAT which would take it to £188 - the same as Adobe.

                                • 333. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
                                  Trevor.Dennis Community Member

                                  Alan Craven wrote:

                                   

                                  There has just been a fuss in the UK about the award of a photographic prize to a person who took someone elses published photograph, without permission, manipulated it, and submitted the modified image to the competition.  She argued that nowhere in the terms and conditions did it state that the starting point for an entry must be a photograph that you took yourself.

                                   

                                  After much argument the award was witheld, I believe.

                                   

                                  Graeme Guy is rated one of the best amateur natural history photographers in the world, and regularly gets Champion Image and a bunch of medals in natural history exhibitions and salons all over the world.  The humming birds below are an example of his work (you can view more HERE). 

                                   

                                  Graeme was one of the speakers, and ran a couple of workshops at the PSNZ National Convention in Nelson in 2010, and I attended both workshops.  In fact Graeme’s laptop would not play nicely with the projector, so I had to rush back to my hotel to get mine, and I still have his Powerpoint on it. I also had the nerve-racking privilege of teaching some HDR and Photoshop techniques to Graeme and 39 other similarly qualified photographers in two workshops that I had been invited to run.

                                   

                                  One of the rules in NZ Natural History competitions is that nowhere in the image is the ‘Hand-of-Man’ allowed to appear.  Graeme told us that the humming birds are photographed with the aid of seven small flash guns set to 1/128th power, which gives an effective shutter speed of about 1/30,000th of a second, and that’s how he is able to freeze their rapid wing movement.  I’ve also run a number of lighting workshops, and I asked Graeme how it was that with all that flash power involved, the background was not black?  He answered that two of the seven flash guns are directed at a false background, which varies between a poster sized photograph printed on matt paper, or camouflage netting.

                                   

                                  So someone else in the audience asked how these false backgrounds could possibly comply with the Hand-of-Man rule.  One of the main PSNZ Natural History judges, a Ron McKie, who happened to be a very good friend of Graeme’s came to his defence saying it was OK because these items were completely ‘out of focus’.

                                   

                                  Hmmm… stunned silence all round, and a change of the rules less than a year later.

                                   

                                  http://grguy.smugmug.com/Naturephotographs/Costa-Rica-and-Ecuador/i-kKrpZGG/0/XL/2J2F2937-prep2-XL.jpg

                                  • 334. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
                                    Alan Craven Community Member

                                    Hmm?  An interesting one.  I would regard using a background in this way as perfectly legitimate.  The hand of man is inevitably involved - how do you distinguish between the use of multiple flash-guns and that background?  If one goes nit-picking, where does the camera fit into this?

                                     

                                    My reading of what I take to be your original regulations would be that image editing would be be proscribed, but detecting light touch editing would not be easy.  I would have assumed that the shutter would have to be fired manually too.

                                     

                                    Also once you erase the line in the sand, or fail to define it adequately, where do you decide that the limits occur?

                                     

                                    I have come across Graeme Guy's work through a fellow member of Royal Forest and Bird, who, whilst an accomplished photographer himself, holds Graeme Guy in reverence.

                                    • 335. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
                                      Mike Wickham Community Member

                                      True, you can still upgrade to CS6. But just try finding a link for it on the Adobe site on your own. They have buried it very deeply.

                                      uhanepono wrote:


                                      YOU CAN still upgrade..!! really, truly. Here is the link

                                      http://www.adobe.com/products/catalog/cs6._sl_id-contentfilter_sl_cata log_sl_software_sl_creativesuite6.html?start=10

                                       

                                      1. In the Photoshop CS6 row, click the Buy link
                                      2. "I want to buy:", click on the dropdown menu and select Upgrade
                                      3. click "I own" and on the dropdown menu select the relevant product which you already own
                                      4. Follow the prompts from there to complete the purchase
                                      • 336. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
                                        rob_ashcroft Community Member

                                        Mike Wickham wrote:

                                         

                                        True, you can still upgrade to CS6. But just try finding a link for it on the Adobe site on your own. They have buried it very deeply.

                                        uhanepono wrote:


                                        YOU CAN still upgrade..!! really, truly. Here is the link

                                        http://www.adobe.com/products/catalog/cs6._sl_id-contentfilter_sl_cata log_sl_software_sl_creativesuite6.html?start=10

                                         

                                        1. In the Photoshop CS6 row, click the Buy link
                                        2. "I want to buy:", click on the dropdown menu and select Upgrade
                                        3. click "I own" and on the dropdown menu select the relevant product which you already own
                                        4. Follow the prompts from there to complete the purchase

                                         

                                        I'm not at all sure you can find that link by browsing from the UK home page in a logical order. The first part of the link is 'products' which is easy enough from the home page. But then to get 'catalog' you have to select 'see all products' in the BR corner. Then you get this page http://www.adobe.com/uk/products/catalog.html  and it might be me but I can't see any link on that page that either takes you to the link address you gave above from were it says 'cs6._sl_id-contentfilter_sl_cata log_sl_software_sl_creativesuite6.html?start=10' None of the descriptions match what you are looking for, and although the list is supposed to be in alphanumeric order - it isn't! I think it's hidden.

                                        • 337. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
                                          crapola Community Member

                                          Smell the magic.

                                          • 338. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
                                            uhanepono Community Member

                                            This is why I provide the link just so you DONT have to find it on your own. Post it over and over. Post it often and early!! Keep it alive and forget adobe's obfuscations, Empower yourself inspite of it.

                                            I was able, BTW, with no trouble at all, to load the page from a UK proxy server (emulates an UK IP).

                                             

                                            YOU CAN still upgrade..!! really, truly. Here is the link

                                            http://www.adobe.com/products/catalog/cs6._sl_id-contentfilter_sl_cata log_sl_software_sl_creativesuite6.html?start=10

                                             

                                            1. In the Photoshop CS6 row, click the Buy link
                                            2. "I want to buy:", click on the dropdown menu and selectUpgrade
                                            3. click "I own" and on the dropdown menu select the relevant product which you already own
                                            4. Follow the prompts from there to complete the purchase
                                            • 340. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
                                              rob_ashcroft Community Member

                                              Crapola - I tried to send you an email but it's hidden. If I were you I'd take that post out pretty quickly. If you delete it, I'll delete this post.

                                              • 341. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
                                                rob_ashcroft Community Member

                                                crapola wrote:

                                                 

                                                Can't. I don't have access.

                                                 

                                                You should look at the history of Germany and all that changed due to absolute control. Look past the horrible outcome of the subject, but the beginning of an alleged good idea.

                                                My grandparents on my mothers side died at Dachau in 1943. And I don't need to look at the history of Germany - I have a Masters degree in European history.

                                                • 342. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
                                                  crapola Community Member

                                                  It's not meant to offend, but to bring to light that all power corrupts all. Again, you need to look past the hatred of what one man did to stir what the future of how Adobe's hard line decisions shall affect all businesses. This it not about one man's insanity, but a lesson in history of when control leaves you helpless.  This is what the cloud offers its users.

                                                  • 343. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
                                                    rob_ashcroft Community Member

                                                    I see what you are getting at, I think. The recent activity of certain international companies and the so-called globalisation project is equivalent to the evils that have gone before in history. I would probably agree with you, in fact I was discussing this with my wife this evening. But this is a forum devoted to discussing Adobe products, not their possible plans for world domination.

                                                    • 344. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
                                                      crapola Community Member

                                                      It's not about world domination Rob though Adobe does have a strong hold on many companies as well as individuals with little competition. The cloud offering seems like a great idea at the introductory price, but once you are hooked into their system, they can pretty much do at they please with you or you have no choice, but to get out and lose what you have created. The strong arm tacticts reminded me of Nazi Germany and is the reason why I posted that youtube link.

                                                       

                                                      Everthing seemed just right for Germany in the early days. Reconstruction of a country was happening. Almost no unemployment. Work camps were in full swing. Uniting all German citizens what the initial goal and it worked very well.

                                                       

                                                      Leaders go insane and conceit a new world order and all hell breaks loose.

                                                       

                                                      What is stopping Adobe from following suit? Human nature and history ALWAYS repeats itself. To have a choice is always better for business.  Just go to the Cloud forum and look at all the trouble users are having with just getting the software to work. The work in itself is hard enough at times.

                                                       

                                                      To me, this will unravel Adobe's big plans for conversion. If we as users can't get the software to be stable, then we protest, give up and or move on. To eliminate a perpetual licence and bring stability to your work environment is key to any business success. To have to deal with getting your tools functioning and stable is a huge problem. I for one don't want to deal or rely upon Adobe for what was freedom until now.

                                                       

                                                      Yes I will pay for the tools, but I don't want to be hamstrung trying to do my job because the Nazi's have just rolled into France.

                                                      • 345. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
                                                        Lundberg02 Community Member

                                                        Quote from Ray Stofberg, a commerciaal photographer, on Phase One's facebook page:

                                                         


                                                        - What is your opinion of the recent move by Adobe to transition its customers to a Cloud based (software as service) model?


                                                        Their decision to move to the Cloud-based model had me made looking around for good alternatives, but the fact is there really are none for Photoshop. Luckily for me, Capture One is not only an alternative to Lightroom, but it’s better! Let’s put it this way: When I consider the D800e files, I moved from unacceptable to exceptional image quality when I moved from Lightroom to Capture One Pro!

                                                        • 346. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
                                                          Steven L. Gotz Community Member

                                                          I agree with Alan.

                                                           

                                                          He didn't paint in the feathers, he used tools to accomplish the task. The blue background could just have easily been a completely out of focus background instead, but it might also have been a blue wall of a building. He arranged for the photograph in the same way as someone places a model in just the right light. No harm, no foul there. For all I care, he could have erased the background completely and just replaced it.

                                                           

                                                          I understand that it is a fine line, but in my rather limited experience, I have developed the opinion that taking things out of a photograph using Photoshop, is different than putting them in using Photoshop.  Adding a different background is probably too far out there but I am willing to accept a solid color as a replacement and not call it "adding". Because really, if you could blur a background using the right lens, aperture and distances to get the perfect DOF, why not?

                                                           

                                                          How the heck I would even attempt to write rules like that, I have no idea. But it sounds right when I visualize what I mean in my head.

                                                          • 347. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
                                                            Tom Murray 1 Community Member

                                                            How does this relate to the title of this thread?

                                                            • 348. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
                                                              crapola Community Member

                                                              Who cares. We can all watch the tail wag the dog on Monday.

                                                              • 349. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
                                                                Steven L. Gotz Community Member

                                                                How does this relate to the title of this thread?

                                                                It doesn't.

                                                                 

                                                                It stemmed from a comment I made regarding using Photoshop Elements, which still has a perpetual license, and Lightroom 5, which still has a perpetual license, instead of paying a monthly fee for Photoshop.

                                                                 

                                                                That led to a discussion about how much compositing is really being done by professional photogrphers that can't be handled by Elements.

                                                                 

                                                                That would effectively be boycotting the Creative Cloud. So, back on topic.

                                                                 

                                                                Feel better now?

                                                                 

                                                                Edit: Besides, it is better than discussing if Adobe and Hitler are in any way whatsoever equivalent, similar, or even remotely tied together in any way.

                                                                • 350. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
                                                                  uhanepono Community Member

                                                                  I began using PS way back (1997) to cobble together scanned collage snippets from magazines (back when there were magazines). I still use it for collage among other things like comps from digital photos and savaged images from all over the place as well as my own camera's output. Puppet warp, liquify (which I can still use with a layer copy if I can't get Smart objects in the game) and the awesome brush perameters would be the only tools I would really really miss if I completely left adobe. I make full use of ALL the blend modes too. Other apps are fine for most of my photographic concerns, lightroom, onone etc. For comps and collages, and 3D though, and for the amazing brushes there is still nothing else I have tried that matches these PS tools. comps and collage are fun and this late in the day they are the life of the party! I have seen over the years more and more borrowing, resampling etc in both music and image rendering that it's really a free-for-all out there. I feel there as many approaches as there are people creating. My policy is that if the image I want to use is going to end up recognizable I check to see if there is a © on the image and if so I get in contact with the © holder and ask if I can use it for my collage, comp or as painting source material. I send them a link to my output and I have NEVER been turned down so far. ask and it is given. So PS6 is enough for me so far. If I had the newer tools I would play with them but I would not, at this point abandon my PC6, which feels more precious to me all of a sudden. The cloud is a trap. I can wait them out for other apps to have the same features...... this thread does meander a bit indeed! Rivers often do.

                                                                  • 351. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
                                                                    Lundberg02 Community Member

                                                                    Apparently you have never used Painter.

                                                                    • 352. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
                                                                      uhanepono Community Member

                                                                      Corel painter? Honestly I tried so hard to love it. It's such a CPU hog and I run a beefed up macbookpro and still those brushes lag and drag and lo the spinning beach ball of death (mac speak) is upon me. There are a few things I can use it for and the brushes do have lots of tweeks available if I'm just doodling on a small doc with not much resolution. I do love to make seamless patterns and play with nozzles etc like the next guy and I do fool around on it a bit but when I start cobbling together a comp or collage with lots of elements, adding masks and layers and styles and adjsutments and I want to really move faston a roll corel painter gets bogged down. I find the interface extremely crowded as well. It's a good thing I have an external monitor. I would need a much more robust system to really make full use of corel. Mind you, I love the app! And when I had access to a brawny desktop system it was soo much fun. I do prefer PS for layered docs that get masive and still don't slow down my mac OS. Thas was one of the biggest upgrades for me from PS5.1 to 6 extended; the speed. Ah corel, so much potencial, so CPU intensive.

                                                                      • 353. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
                                                                        Tom Murray 1 Community Member

                                                                        Steven L. Gotz wrote:

                                                                         

                                                                        How does this relate to the title of this thread?

                                                                        It doesn't.

                                                                         

                                                                        It stemmed from a comment I made regarding using Photoshop Elements, which still has a perpetual license, and Lightroom 5, which still has a perpetual license, instead of paying a monthly fee for Photoshop.

                                                                         

                                                                        That led to a discussion about how much compositing is really being done by professional photogrphers that can't be handled by Elements.

                                                                         

                                                                        That would effectively be boycotting the Creative Cloud. So, back on topic.

                                                                         

                                                                        Feel better now?

                                                                         

                                                                        Edit: Besides, it is better than discussing if Adobe and Hitler are in any way whatsoever equivalent, similar, or even remotely tied together in any way.

                                                                        Perhaps you should start a new discussion that is more specific to your interests.

                                                                        • 354. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
                                                                          Lundberg02 Community Member

                                                                          uhanepono, do you have Painter 12? It's much faster than 10 and better than 11.

                                                                          Anyway, here are some PS CC alternatives,    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2418674,00.asp

                                                                          • 355. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
                                                                            uhanepono Community Member

                                                                            Yes I have it painter 12. I still update and yes it's a bit faster but no where near as fast and agile with stylus response as adobe. Thanks for the alternatives link. I want to be clear, though, that I love PS6 extended and am not looking to replace it out of any need to make a statement any more. After reading and posting to many threads on a handful of forums and listening to numerous podcasts I have come to a peaceful place where I am happy with what PS6 does for me at this juncture and eager to get the new features in CC. But I am not so eager to get them as I am content to wait and watch what happens in the constatly shifting sands of image processing options. There are other apps that do things PS6 does not do or that do better and they provide me a nice complement (Try photomatix for HDR, for example. Or perfect photo suite 7 for masks and focus manipulation). Perhaps Corel will make performance improvements for mac users, perhaps I will get a nice new lighning-fast desktop monster or a cintique even! Perhaps gimp will suddenly get a better UI, perhaps viable 3D will come to photoline and/or a timeline. Perhpas adobe will release a CS7 type permanent license version of those CC upgrades. Perhaps I will, by then be more intersted in other things myself. I am happy to allow things to change as needs and desires dictate at this point. If people want the CC features in a full license form then, by golly some enterpriseing soul will come along and oblige them! Never fails! CC's already been cracked, I hear, so if your hungry enough to sneak in the backdoor to get to the buffet table you can go that way. Reading the finacial reports and where adbe is making aquisitions and headway (on the seeking alpha website) I see that adobe's focus is shifting to other concerns that are not my own. I see them eventually leaving the image processing field to others. Adobe seems to be moving on. So shall I.

                                                                             

                                                                            Lundberg02 wrote:

                                                                             

                                                                            uhanepono, do you have Painter 12? It's much faster than 10 and better than 11.

                                                                            Anyway, here are some PS CC alternatives,    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2418674,00.asp

                                                                            • 356. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
                                                                              Danny Michael Community Member

                                                                              Well known issue with Painter 12 brushes and a simple fix. Uncheck "Multicore" in the brush general properties. Painter will then will use it's brushes with no lag. You'll need to do this with each brush that exhibits the problem.

                                                                              • 357. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
                                                                                uhanepono Community Member

                                                                                well now, that is a very handy tip!! thanks. I will do that!!

                                                                                Danny Michael wrote:

                                                                                 

                                                                                Well known issue with Painter 12 brushes and a simple fix. Uncheck "Multicore" in the brush general properties. Painter will then will use it's brushes with no lag. You'll need to do this with each brush that exhibits the problem.

                                                                                • 358. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
                                                                                  Lundberg02 Community Member

                                                                                  Thanks Danny, was that also applicable to 10 and 11? i never saw that in  response to brush lag complaints in 10. I bought 11 very cheaply and 12 came out so soon I never used it.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  In re Capture One: I bought the Express 7 version. Importing images is grossly unnecessarily  complex. It's Swedish, so it's over-engineered.

                                                                                  • 359. Re: Boycott Creative Cloud?
                                                                                    Jeff Schewe Community Member

                                                                                    Lundberg02 wrote:

                                                                                     

                                                                                    In re Capture One: I bought the Express 7 version. Importing images is grossly unnecessarily  complex. It's Swedish, so it's over-engineered.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Heaven forbid dooode...C1/Phase One is Danish not Swedish (you have no idea just how much you've just offended the Danes!!!)

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