Renaming Projects in RH6

[hpankin]

I have a pretty large project created in RH6. I'd tell you how many topics are in it, but RH6 crashed while running the topic report.

Anyway, I'm a template nut: I like having a bare-bones project with topics linked, index created, etc., then make a copy of the entire project, and apply client-specific info to the copy. This method involves renaming the project copy, but I've not had a great deal of success here. When it's finished (or when I think it's finished), there are so many broken links afterward, that I'm forced to delete the copy, make another one and try again.

No, there are no broken links in the original project.
I am not using RoboSource Control.
I have not made any attempts to rename anything with Windows Explorer or another 3rd party tool.

Is this just symptomatic of "version point zero" gremlins? Is there an ETA on a patch?

[Peter Grainge]

Welcome to the forum.

Telling us how you are renaming the project would help. :-)

You say you are copying the project so that will not break any links in the project. After creating the copy, what do you do to rename it?

Before assuming this is a bug and asking for an ETA on a patch, let's find out the problem.

[Guest]

Hello hpankin,

You say that the project was created in RH6. Have you imported files (text or images) from other, previous, projects?

You say that you are "forced to delete the copy, make another and try again". Does this work?

How are you inserting images?

Just a few too many unknowns at this time.

Regards,

Brian

[hpankin]

Thanks for the welcome.

I'm renaming the project with RH6 (File -> Rename Project). I didn't know I had to specify my method, seeing as there's a specific function.

The original source material was a Word document. The import process was very smooth, actually. Fast, too.

The renaming process, after deleting the broken copy & making a new copy, does not work. I still get broken links.

Images? I'm inserting images with Insert -> Image (??)

I guess I should've mentioned that I've been using RoboHelp since version 4. Not X4 mind you...version 4. ; )

[Peter Grainge]

When you see a new poster you have no way of knowing their experience level. Most often it is not as extensive as yours and typically it is about a new project so guess where my thinking would go when I saw a new poster and a new project mentioned?

When I asked about how you were renaming it was because often someone tells us what they are doing but not how and it can be because what seemed obvious to them is totally wrong. I've seen all sorts of attempts to do it via the back door so I had to be sure you were coming in the correct way, which you are.

I need to be clear on something. You have a good project so the fact that it was created from a Word document should be irrelevant unless I am misunderstanding something. Let's say your good project is C:\goodproject. You are copying that using Windows Explorer so that initially you get C:\copy of goodproject, you rename that to C:\secondproject, then you open it in RoboHelp. At that point do the broken links show or does that not happen until you rename the project?

Are images an issue? That was not in your post and as far as I can see you are not getting that far.

You say there are so many broken links that you just delete the copy and make a new one. I have seen situations where fixing one link fixes the rest. Have you tried to find out what is wrong with just one of them. It might give us a clue on how to fix this.

[RoboWizard]

Hi all

Not trying to trounce on anyone's efforts here, but thought I'd ask a question. I'm conducting my first RoboHelp 6 class this week and we have encountered some oddness that could be related. I see a mention of importing Word documents, and this is where my puzzlement comes in. Part of the class involves importing a few Word documents. At various times, we have encountered dialogs that advise TopicName.book has been created to hold resouces (or something along those lines). This seems to happen when we attempt to modify attributes of topics that have been imported from Word. When it happens, the topic is moved to this new book and shows in RoboHelp as a broken or missing topic.

So my question to you is to ask if you have seen any messages related to this? If you examine your project folder, do you see folders inside that end in .book? If so, it could be this little issue is arising from the Project Renaming as well.

Sincerely... Rick

[hpankin]

Hey Peter.

I mentioned images because that's what the last fellow asked about (sorry, I've got linear view of the forum going here). The only remaining method of renaming files that I didn't exclude in my initial post is with the use of a DOS boot disc. ; )

The copy of goodproject load in RH6 quite nicely. Only when I try to rename it does it go on a link-breaking spree.

I've tried again just before making this post: before the renaming: all is well. After the renaming: broken links.

And I feel I wait an appropriate amount of time before it's done. I can tell it's trying to repair all the broken links (apparently, renaming the project breaks all the links) and it gets pretty far. But after ten minutes or so it stops and there's a few hundred broken links left over.

Here's an interesting fact: If I double click the entries in the Broken Links folder, the only kind of broken links it shows me are TOC and Index links. The page links seem to be OK.

So am I expected to re-build both the index and the TOC? I might buy that but if all of the TOC and Index links break as a result of renaming (which I'm not certain is a fact), why then does it repair only a portion of them?

RH6 just seems to (forgive me, Mr. Grainge) peter out!

[Peter Grainge]

Is good project something you have edited and generated from or just a new project but without broken links.

How big is the project zipped up?

You are not working off the network are you?

[hpankin]

It's a project we started as soon as RH6 came out, so you could say it's been edited and generated (not sure what you mean by "generated"). Do you mean compiled? Oh yes, it's been compiled. FlashPro. Our Robohelp Server, once we got it all running and we connected, was a joy to work with.

Zipped up size? I don't know but I think I know why you're asking, and normally I'd gladly take you up on it. But we have a very strict security protocol with this client. If I gave you that project, I'd be jeopardizing our agreement and I can't take the chance. It's a very kind offer, though!! Please let me know if I've been presumptuous.

Working off the network? Ha! No, I learned very early on that you should work locally and then Beyond Compare to a backup drive.

[Peter Grainge]

WebHelp and FlashHelp are generated to the local drive and published to the server and CHM help is compiled, is the terminology I use.

What I needed to know and what you have told me is that you have been editing the topics and creating help that works properly. Sorry to have laboured that point but I wanted that clear in my mind.

Did you check out the question that RoboWizard posed earlier?

Are there any spaces in your project hame?

Do the .hhc and .hhk files have the same name as the renamed project?

OK re not being able to send the project but it's like trying to get the car fixed and not being willing to let the garage have it. Just teasing.

[hpankin]

Robowizard: no, I haven't encountered that weirdness with .book.

Peter: Yes, the hhc and hhk files seem ok...but you may have hit it with your other query. My template project, the one I use to make all the copies with, is called "Robohelp Template". My spidey sense is tingling.

[Peter Grainge]

Have you now tried a rename without any spaces?

[hpankin]

You misunderstood. The original project has the space in it's project name. The name of the COPY of the original does not.

So do you think the fact that the original project has a space in it's name that the renaming process is getting trown for a loop? The original project works swimmingly; no problems whatsoever, space in the project name and all.

[Peter Grainge]

No I understood but was hoping the problem was the new project was also being given a space.

You said all the broken links are TOC and Index related. Did you ever try to fix just one as I suggested? Also open up the hhk and hhc files in Notepad. Anything obviously wrong?

As these copies are disposable, trash the CPD and XPJ files in a copy and use the HHP to open the project.

[hpankin]

Hey everyone. Instead of trying Peter's suggestion about the HHP file (besides, I can't find such an extension), I noticed something similar in all these broken TOC/Index links. They were all in a particular subfolder, called hw.

hw contains the entire Health & Welfare benefit template: 22 subfolders and 177 pages of text. So I looked in that folder's fpj file. It was empty. So apparently, none of those 22 subfolders in hw or its pages were being accounted for after the renaming. Fixing it was a simple matter of copying the original hw.fpj and placing it in the new project's hw folder. RH6 instantly "saw" the new fpj and fixed the broken links within 30 seconds.

But the real question here is...why, after many renaming attempts, would RH6 consistently ignore this subfolder? It is unremarkable in every way: it contains no obvious peculiarity, no flash animations, no images at all. Just subfolders and pages containing text and tables. Close examination of hw.fpj reveals nothing conclusive. I did notice that the subfolders listed in hw.fpj were not in alphabetical order, but in looking at a few of the other fpj files, NONE of them list their subfolders in alphabetical order either.

So I can't say if this is a bug or not, Peter. I'm sure a list of all fpj files are maintained somewhere within RH6's innards. Perhaps during renaming, they could add another check/balance to ensure that all the fpj files are accounted for. I'm no programmer but it would seem simple enough.

Thanks to all!

[Aeneas3]

Good suggestion for RH to add another check/balance to the project rename program to verify all the fpj files are included in the new project. You might want to foward the senario and suggestion to Adobe .

I had a similar situation a few months ago with X5 and was told by Adobe tech support that there is a bug in the Project Rename program. When I probed for more details, the only info I received was that they didn't t suggest I rename projects." Not sure whether they resolved the problem with RH 6.

Thanks to your post, I now know why.

[Peter Grainge]

Glad you have got the show on the road.

1] There's an HHP file in the root of every project so if you haven't got such a file, perhaps that's part of the cause of the problem?

2] There should be an FPJ file in every folder so would a list be needed?

3] Create another copy of the project and see if it is empty before the renaming. If it is then I am a bit baffled as to how the content gets cleared in one file and not others.

BTW. One of the reasons I suggested trying to fix one of the links is that can help identify problems of this nature.

I'd be interested to know what you find with [3] above.

[hpankin]

Hey Peter. yes, I'm glad it works too. I've got a lot to report:

1) I have no HHP file in the renamed project at all. The HHP file exists in the original, however. And when I copied the original project to the new folder in Windows Explorer, you can bet the HHP file was there too. Only after the renaming did the HHP file disappear.

2) There IS an fpj file in every folder. Do you mean why would a list be needed? A list would be needed so that during renamings, RH6 can check the list to ensure all of them are accounted for. In this case, clearly, somehting is happening to one of them. So perhaps a list isn't the worst idea?

3) Yes, I've made another copy, I've renamed the copy and the very same subfolder's fpj file is getting wiped out. There's nothing missing with the original project, I assure you. So if those subfolders are present in the original project, then they're present in the copy. And by the way...it's not that there's no fpj file in hw. The file exists. It just contains this:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="windows-1252"?>
<rhpml majorversion="1" minorversion="0">
<folders>
<folder>
<name>images</name>
</folder>
</folders>
<topics/>
</rhpml>

In the above, I notice there's no <topics> tag to accompany <topics/> (which is the wrong syntax anyway). It's completely correct in the original fpj, filled with a list of topics and folders.

What's truly baffling is this: if the fpj file is being wiped out, then how can it be that all the links between the pages in hw and all the subfolders are intact? After all, only the TOC and Index links are broken.

Somebody cue Rod Serling: "Submitted for your approval..."

[Peter Grainge]

That is a new one.

I didn't make it clear that the HHP has a list of files and their paths so the data for a check is there.

Can I assume the FPJ copied in has valid content before renaming and loses it during renaming?

So the HHP and the FPJ in one folder disappear on renaming. Have you tried renaming that folder in the original before copying it to see if that makes a difference?

If it doesn't and you have the time, i wonder if you could do this? Appreciating the NDA you have, in a copy of the original delete all the content except anything in this folder. In that folder leave the files in but delete any content they have. Hopefully letting me have that to play with would not breach any NDA. I'll understand if you are not comfortable with that but it would be nice to understand the true cause.

Rod Serling - not known in the UK.

[MergeThis]

Peter will, however, be all over any Benny Hill references. LOL.


Leon

[Peter Grainge]

You can't show that stuff on TV any more!

[hpankin]

OK, the saga continues. The HHP file appears for a freshly renamed project only after you close out of RH6 and reopen the renamed project.

Also, the old project name still exists in the CPD file of the renamed project. When you generate FlashPro, files using this old name continue to be generated: an oversight, I should think. I had to delete the CPD file and reopen the project to generate a new one.

In conclusion, I think I've done my part to show that something is not quite right about the project renaming process. In software forums like this one, people tend to lean toward defending the software, simultaneously trying to pin fault on the user for things that may go wrong.

Since RH6 has created a specific function for renaming projects, one should not ever have to open Windows Explorer to copy individual files from one folder to another. I don't care how folders were named. Or how big the project is. Or whether a project name has a space in it. Programmers can't account for these things??

Take a good look at the solutions presented in this forum, not just this thread, but the entire Robohelp message board. What percentage of the solutions involve manually doing something that the software should be doing: copying a file in Windows Explorer, editing a file with notepad, find & replace tools, etc. It's madness.

Ultimately, the onus is on Adobe to investigate this.

<hpankin repeatedly slaps the bald head of Adobe and runs away>

[Peter Grainge]

I am not trying to pin the fault on you. This is not something we have seen before and what I am trying to do is establish precisely where the problem is or at least exhaust the things that we can try. Sometimes that turns out to be RoboHelp and sometimes the user.

Given that nobody else has reported this, your logic as a programmer will tell you it is more likely to be project related, but that does not mean it is project related or user error, just that at this stage that is more likely. It could well be something quite valid within your project that is causing this and the combination of factors has not arisen before. However unless that is identified, how can Adobe put it right as you cannot release the project? That is why I had tried to establish the cause, to get down to what caused it without trying to pin blame on anyone. I don't care whose fault it is, I was trying in part to help you and in part to find the cause in case we do see this again.

You say "Ultimately, the onus is on Adobe to investigate this." If you want Adobe to investigate then you will have to take that up with them as these forums are peer to peer. You can either report it as a bug or open a support case.

You also say "Take a good look at the solutions...". You might like to look at the number of posts I have responded to. I see nearly every post on these forums and by digging in the way I was on this problem, sometimes we find the cause or a workaround.

[hpankin]

I meant no disrespect toward you Peter. I know you're only trying to help. Your knowledge has helped me in the past and for that, I thank you.

But this is really expensive software! The privilege of manually completing a project renaming by using Windows explorer and find & replace tools costs me $999 US. Forgive me for believing I shoudn't have to do that, particularly when they created a specific menu item that intends to do the same. Am I crazy for thinking it's ridiculous?

I hear what you're saying about the likelihood of the problem being project-specific or user-specific. But don't confuse first-time forum poster status with first-time user status. Consider also that version 6 is three months old. It wouldn't be the first software that has bugs in it's x.0 incarnation.

[Peter Grainge]

No you're not crazy for expecting it to work and I know you're not a new user.

As I see it, we are at the stage where the call is yours as to whether you want to try the final suggestions I made OR you prefer to log a bug report and wait OR raise a support call.

On the first option I have no means of guaranteeing a result. With that said it's a free solution which starts as quickly as you want. Nobody is saying you should have to do this but look at the other two options.

- If you log a bug report, as with any software company, you may not get the degree of urgency you want.

- On raising a support call there could be a cost but more importantly I suspect the first thing Adobe would want is the project which neatly gets us back to square one because of your NDA.

I would look at this for you if I could. It's like I said before, you want the car fixed but you can't take it to the garage so that only leaves the option of you getting your hands dirty.

I sympathise with your situation but you can see the dilemma. Nobody else reporting a problem and no project available to test. With the very best will in the world, what can Adobe do? I would like to add that I have been very impressed by their reaction on matters where we have been able to pinpoint what causes something to break.

As a programmer you know that before attempting to fix a problem, you want to know how to recreate the problem or have so many instances that the issue has to be the application. I think you will agree that neither of those conditions apply yet. That is not the same as saying the problem is either you or your project. Just that there ain't much to go on.

Hopefully that sets things out in a way that is fair to all concerned.