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80. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
able123 Sep 17, 2013 9:28 AM (in response to JSS1138)Well, Jim, you erased my nice answer so maybe you can just relay what I said in essence ... so the others know how I responded...
thanks
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81. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
joe bloe premiere Sep 18, 2013 8:05 AM (in response to Fuzzy Barsik)..there are two underwater housings in the images: a universal one currently stuffed with Red Epic in the upper image in front (weighs around 30 kg when completely empty), and that yellow thing with the orange gizmo attached (nope, that's not a ballast, that's an external monitor) in the lower image is the housing for SONY camera.
The camera housings...
Booth at a trade show?
Do you do any underwater stuff?
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82. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
joe bloe premiere Sep 18, 2013 8:07 AM (in response to JSS1138)If every camera maker is putting these things into every camera they make, those things get cheaper. It also opens up those cameras to more shooters, meaning more sales.
Kinda like Obamacare will do for health insurance?
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83. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
JSS1138 Sep 18, 2013 8:38 AM (in response to joe bloe premiere)I'm not touching that one.
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84. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
Fuzzy Barsik Sep 18, 2013 10:35 AM (in response to joe bloe premiere)Do you do any underwater stuff?
Occasionally help cover a pool walls and floor with a black fabric, tie algae to rods with attached weights, help distribute them over the bottom, realign between takes and clean the water afterwards.
Oh, I can also desalinate wetsuits when it happens to be a salt water!
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85. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
joe bloe premiere Sep 18, 2013 10:38 AM (in response to Fuzzy Barsik)...help cover a pool walls and floor with a black fabric, tie algae to rods with attached weights, help distribute them over the bottom...
Wuffo?
Are you simulating ocean diving scenes?
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86. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
Fuzzy Barsik Sep 18, 2013 10:44 AM (in response to joe bloe premiere)Nope. Surprisingly a lot of serials and feature films may have underwater scenes. Up to several seconds long!
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87. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
Bill Hunt Sep 18, 2013 1:16 PM (in response to able123)Rod,
Ask if you can use your Adobe Forum "Points" for payment - maybe there IS use for them, after all?
Good luck,
Hunt
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88. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
able123 Sep 20, 2013 1:43 PM (in response to Bill Hunt)I bought a point and shoot camera ( olympus tg1 ) for shooting underwater... and tested it last year in the pool at my apt. complex. I couldnt 'focus' on anything unless there were definite 'shapes' .. like the steps that led down into the shallow end of the pool....
the shots ( it can even shoot movies ! really I'm not kidding ! ) came out kinda cool looking...if you compare it to being blind as a bat underwater in murky water.
Later on ( a couple months ago ) I accidentally dropped that camera into a big pot of stew I was cooking on the stove...
It took at least 20 seconds for me to find a utensil to fish it out and then run it under cold water in sink... I thought for sure I had kilt my camera...
BUT NOOOOOO ! IT SURVIVED ! The good Ol olympus TG1 lived up to it's claim...." INDESTRUCTIBLE " !!!!!
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89. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
able123 Sep 20, 2013 1:55 PM (in response to able123)fuzzy.. talking about water...
I hate to say it but I worked on this thing a long time ago... and part of the set was built in a big olympic size pool...cause that is where the church basement was and the vampire lived...it was really scary
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103957/?ref_=nm_flmg_cam_28
OMG ! Karen Black ! Talk about SCARY !
Anyway, the production co. bought me a wet suit so I could swim around with a panaflex for about a gazillion years in this really big stupid pool.. and get some scary shots of this stuff... ( I pray I never have to re visit this low point of my life ).
The gaffer is now a famous DP...hehe... life goes on... met him on 'royal pain ' pilot years later and boy we laughed it up...about the vampire stuff...anyway, I found out that you do stay sorta 'warm' in wet suit but eventually you get really COLD...
I also found out that your whole stupid body wants to FLOAT ...like be flat on the surface of water.. like some kinda human LOG...
it aint easy working in water if you want my opinion....
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90. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
Fuzzy Barsik Sep 20, 2013 2:07 PM (in response to able123)I hate to say it but I worked on this thing a long time ago...
I remember, and I did watch the movie after our discussion.

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91. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
able123 Sep 20, 2013 2:44 PM (in response to Fuzzy Barsik)really ??? !!! wow ! You couldnt PAY ME ENOUGH to watch that movie ! hehe... good gawd, it is awful ! hehe...
nice bat icon ...that thing reminds me of ME in the 80's on the lower east side....alphabet city...
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92. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
able123 Sep 20, 2013 2:46 PM (in response to able123)( you know, when u come outta after hour club and hit the sunlight and everyone is running to work ...and you just stepped into the 'light'...OMG !
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93. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
able123 Sep 20, 2013 3:01 PM (in response to able123)it probably doesnt matter here.. but just so you know...the gaffer on that stupid vampire thing..JIM... continued his career ( mostly in CA ) after that movie ... he hooked up with the sick DP ( from aus or NZ , I forget ) and got some steady work in CA thru that idiot... even though JIM was from NY...
Basically this is what is going on in the film biz.. everyone lives SOMEWHERE but they work WHEREVER...
is lots of fun !
anyway, Jim eventually kept working steadily away from ny and got his accreditation ( asc? ) and did royal pain pilot as dp. where I met him after about 30 years from vampire movie. trust me, we had a GREAT relationship on the vampire movie.
Kinda like me and JIM SIMON if I ever met him on a movie set.
LOVE is the word that describes this.
So when JIM ( the real jim who works on real shows and did the vampire movie 30 years ago as a 'gaffer' ) did the DP thing on royal pains... he now gets ( I am not kidding ) a kick back on the show for as long as the episode plays on TV with the original distributer.
That is to say, ( and this goes for director and writer too ), they get points on the episodes. Now, in reality, after about 7 years the contracts for ACTORS kicks in , where they ALSO begin to get a kick back on the episodes... forever.... no matter how many distributers buy and sell the product .
This is why you see TV episodes ( after about 7 years ) bite the dust and stop filming. Cause the producers would have to share yet MORE profit with the actors now...even if they stop shooting.... get it ??
You do realize that this is a BUSINESS ? Luckily JIM ( the birthday boy in upstate NY ) has a clear view of this business and the programs involved in producing the products... so everyone will benefit from his experience and knowledge.
( where's that bat icon when I need it ??? ... insert here ! )
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94. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
able123 Sep 20, 2013 3:22 PM (in response to able123)i dont watch tv stuff .. but think about all those episodic things people watch.. and the stuff you hear via PR for them...
law and order , csi, house, nypd blue, whats that one with the fire fighter guy ? in ny ? I forget.. he ran for a while...famous fireman ? tons of stuff falls into this category of episodic stuff now... even stuff like 'emergency room' or whatever the stuff is called..
You ( as the audience ) are as much of the 'product' as the people who make it. YES ! ITS TRUE !
YOU are the reason it exists.
IF YOU DECIDE ( through your intelligence and social economic awareness ) NOT TO WATCH ... you will actually begin to get better programming and shows to watch.
IM NOT KIDDING !
think positive !
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95. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
joe bloe premiere Sep 20, 2013 3:35 PM (in response to able123)I don't watch any commercial network episodic series on air either.
But... there have been a few good ones on the pay channels.
- Six Feet Under
- The Sopranos
- Huff
Some even like Boardwalk Empire!
Commercial episodic series:
I have watched the first few seasons of Mad Men on DVD... I thought
it wasn't bad (I can identify with the ad agency types).
And, Breaking Bad is supposed to be good (I haven't seen it).
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96. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
able123 Sep 20, 2013 3:45 PM (in response to joe bloe premiere)havent watched any of those things.. nor any tv episodes for years. sorry to say ...too busy working and having no personal schedule ( no fixed schedule for work ). last thing i watched and had fun watching was around the early star trek stuff before I got drafted etc. ... left " home".
I've watched some stuff just to see how it got cut. see how it looked aesthetically (? ).. lighting etc.
see if I made a nice camera 'move' ... if it got left on floor or put into movie ...
other than that I'm sorta lonely and dont get a kick outta that stuff much anymore... just watching tv or movies.
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97. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
able123 Sep 20, 2013 3:47 PM (in response to able123)I read a lot..
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98. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
able123 Sep 22, 2013 8:57 AM (in response to able123)anyone have thoughts on atomos ninja 2 recording from hdmi dslr ???
general observations re: overall quality of hardware and recordings ?? I sorta know the specs from reading...I'm thinking I may get slightly better results from it instead of using the sd card and in camera h264 compression.
??
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99. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
Steven L. Gotz Sep 22, 2013 9:27 AM (in response to able123)I suggest reading the reviews on the B&H page. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/858661-REG/ATOMOS_ATOMNJA002_Ninja_2.html
But, seriously? I thought your camera had some pretty nice video capabilities from what I read. I know that the Mac folks like to record to ProRes, but the video I have seen from Nikons and Canons has all been really great quality. I have only been able to download short clips, but they looked great.
Have you checked to make sure the video exported from your camera is not compressed before hitting the HDMI port?
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100. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
able123 Sep 22, 2013 9:47 AM (in response to Steven L. Gotz)yeah, I was thinking of trying out the avid codec instead of the pro res, but what I like about it is that it's just less heavy compression as on the cards in camera, more time potentially ( if I swap SSD ), the result is 422 ( it only records the 420 of the camera but puts it into 422 space for editor ), less intensive for the pig to handle...although I havent had any problem with pig and mov h264...
Just thinking about it ...not about to go order anything real quick..
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101. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
Fuzzy Barsik Sep 22, 2013 10:47 AM (in response to Steven L. Gotz)I know that the Mac folks like to record to ProRes...
Steven, this time it's not about Mac folks and their preferences, this time it's about production codec vs delivery codec (i.e. Intra-frame, 220 Mbps and 4:2:2 chroma subsampling vs Inter-frame, 28 Mbps and 4:2:0 chroma subsampling) and as a result better quality for critical colour and compositing work.
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102. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
able123 Sep 22, 2013 11:08 AM (in response to Fuzzy Barsik)fuzz.. you hear anything about the unit itself ? I read some reviews etc.. but haven't talked to a real person about their impressions.
Someone said the ssd or hd sometimes doesnt wanna 'release' ... no clue whats up with that. I wont use it for sound so dont care about delay etc.
DO care about the basic sturdiness of the unit and connections ( especially the wanky hdmi as opposed to bnc type stuff ).
??
will probably wanna use a cardellini clamp or something on it... to put it somewhere near the camera off the head.
??
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103. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
Fuzzy Barsik Sep 22, 2013 11:28 AM (in response to able123) -
104. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
able123 Sep 22, 2013 12:12 PM (in response to Fuzzy Barsik)not to mention sash cord, hot glue, trick line and surgical tubing !
hehe..
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105. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
Steven L. Gotz Sep 22, 2013 6:32 PM (in response to Fuzzy Barsik)Fuzzy,
I just meant that ProRes has been popular with the Mac side of the house, whereas there are other codecs, like the Avid, that have been popular on the PC side. Although the line has gotten pretty blurry lately.
I like the Cineform workflow myself. Always have.
I just don't see the need to capture to 4:2:2 if the footage has already been compressed anyway. I can understand the desire to have the 4:2:2 for color correction but Cineform transcodes to a 10 bit codec without having to capture it that way. So no extra hardware required.
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106. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
able123 Sep 22, 2013 6:55 PM (in response to Steven L. Gotz)steve,
dont know if this info will help..but maybe.
the hdmi out is directly from the chip, not compressed. there are various 'recorders' that can be used to get that hdmi output...some of which are really really expensive. also, of the recorders available, there is a wide variety of formats that can be used... from uncompressed to very compressed.. a full range of choices.
my nikon is only 420 so I gain nothing color wise to capture 422 in terms of what my camera sees. however, the sd card uses a mov wrapper and h264 compression, which is very highly compressed and is basically good for viewing video. It's only been the past 4-5 years that computers have become powerful enough to actually edit that without the absolute neccessity of transcoding ( like cineform ).
If I choose to get a recorder and use the hdmi out , I am getting an uncompressed stream and in the case of the little ninja 2 ( if I get that ), it will record straight from the chip and save it as either prores or avid at 422...which is easier for my pig computer to edit...and better for effects and color corrections and so on...The bit rates are in fuzzy post and the type of GOP stuff... whatever.
It saves me the time of using something like cineform to transcode ( and is better quality cause it was never compressed with h264 to begin with ... etc etc.
You already know all of this... and I'm not trying to talk you into liking it... but thought I'd explain my point of view
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107. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
Steven L. Gotz Sep 22, 2013 7:05 PM (in response to able123)If I choose to get a recorder and use the hdmi out , I am getting an uncompressed stream ...
So I see.
I did some research... http://www.bythom.com/hdmivideo.htm
I get it now. Cool.
Edit: You might want to read this too... http://philipbloom.net/forum/threads/gh3s-hdmi-output.11442/
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108. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
able123 Sep 22, 2013 7:20 PM (in response to Steven L. Gotz) -
109. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
Fuzzy Barsik Sep 23, 2013 1:12 AM (in response to Steven L. Gotz)I get it now. Cool.
Steven, I hope that means, you eventually realised that recording to a production codec via HDMI has nothing to do with transcoding highly compressed footage to a production codec, and, therefore, I don't need to comment on this one:
I just don't see the need to capture to 4:2:2 if the footage has already been compressed anyway. I can understand the desire to have the 4:2:2 for color correction but Cineform transcodes to a 10 bit codec without having to capture it that way. So no extra hardware required.
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110. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
Steven L. Gotz Sep 23, 2013 8:12 AM (in response to Fuzzy Barsik)Fuzzy,
Steven, I hope that means, you eventually realised that recording to a production codec via HDMI has nothing to do with transcoding highly compressed footage to a production codec, and, therefore, I don't need to comment on this one:
What I didn't know was if the compression took place before the HDMI output. Apparently it doesn't. So he is good to go. If it had, then making a silk purse out of a cow's ear is not useless, you still get a purse, but not as good as starting with silk.
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111. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
able123 Sep 23, 2013 8:46 AM (in response to Steven L. Gotz)THANK YOU JOE !
( I got points ! )
time for a new thread... so I can get MORE
( this is proof positive that you get more with a smile than you do with a frown )
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112. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
Fuzzy Barsik Sep 23, 2013 8:45 AM (in response to Steven L. Gotz)If it had, then making a silk purse out of a cow's ear is not useless, you still get a purse, but not as good as starting with silk.
Steven, if it had, I wouldn't post my comment: there are plenty threads in both PrPro and AE Forums, including my conversation with Rick Gerard, in which I try my best to explain and provide evidence that converting compressed footage into an intermediate encoded with a production codec doesn't yield better quality.
Well, I don't expect that seasoned participants read every single thread, but that subject was just discussing so often...

By the way, I guess you realise that issues described in your second link were caused by ignorance of those posters, who hadn't bothered with reading user manuals. Especially fstopper, who was so brave to blame the gadget, while too coward to publish a retraction with a new proper test...
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113. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
able123 Sep 23, 2013 9:01 AM (in response to Fuzzy Barsik)Fuzzy,
For the nikon d800 the camera settings necessary to just 'view' full HD on a screen via hdmi requires some things those posters seemed to be missing or confused about and I kinda had to speed read the thing to make sure I wasnt missing something cool. I don't think the link choice was given much thought really.. just happened to be about the same subject sorta. A more thorough review of whats on internet about the hdmi output would probably have led Steve to realize he can do similar with the panasonic GH3, if he wanted to avoid the avdhd and h264 he can choose. However, his is cooler than mine, in that he can record to SD at the same time as the hdmi output ( mine has to have the storage cards OUT of the camera or it defaults to 720p ).
I think because I've seen pro cameras using HD SDI out ( bnc cables mostly ) so often on sets , that I kinda got curious a while back about what was going on with that.. not just for DIT and video playback, but for recording as well... So using an output on a camera ( if available ) is not very weird to me. It is probably new to Steve. He certainly has been learning a ton of stuff in the past 6 months... and testing and researching.. so that is a really cool thing...
I tip my hat to you all, as I prepare to go get milk and BEER ! YIPEE !
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114. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
Steven L. Gotz Sep 23, 2013 9:09 AM (in response to Fuzzy Barsik)By the way, I guess you realise that issues described in your second link were caused by ignorance of those posters, who hadn't bothered with reading user manuals. Especially fstopper, who was so brave to blame the gadget, while too coward to publish a retraction with a new proper test...
Yes. Just a cautionary tale. Would not want to make the same mistakes.
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115. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
Steven L. Gotz Sep 23, 2013 9:18 AM (in response to able123)A more thorough review of whats on internet about the hdmi output would probably have led Steve to realize he can do similar with the panasonic GH3, if he wanted to avoid the avdhd and h264 he can choose. However, his is cooler than mine, in that he can record to SD at the same time as the hdmi output ( mine has to have the storage cards OUT of the camera or it defaults to 720p ).
I remember the conversations about my camera before it was released. Would it? Wouldn't it? Etc.
I can't forsee a time when I would "need" that quality. It is certainly nice to know that it is possible. I suppose that shooting a TVC or Documentary for broadcast, it would make sense. If you have an external monitor, and many of the trappings of a professional setup, but want to use a DSLR (or Mirrorless), then go for the best quality you can get.
While that isn't even close to being on my RADAR, I have to wonder if there are people with a GH3 that are shooting professonal videos. Seems like there couldn't be that many, but what the heck? Could be a few.
So far, I have many many hours of shooting time dedicated to stills, and about two hours of video. If that ratio ever shifts toward video that is more than just the video equivalent of a snapshot, I will remember this conversation.
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116. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
able123 Sep 23, 2013 10:31 AM (in response to Steven L. Gotz)=========
So far, I have many many hours of shooting time dedicated to stills, and about two hours of video. If that ratio ever shifts toward video that is more than just the video equivalent of a snapshot, I will remember this conversation.
======
Not only THAT.. BUT .... it helps regarding your potential to help OTHERS even though you are not personally using the " features" available on your own camera. For example, you may hear of someone shooting with a red camera who is not happy with the time limit on the hard drive they are using for redraw ( fill in the mode of your choice here ).. and YOU would know that using the HD SDI out from the camera would allow them to record stuff from the chip. You would also know, with further study , that using one HD SDI out would give them 422 and using 2 HD SDI outputs would give them 444...
Basically the hdmi output from your camera and the outputs from OTHER cameras become somewhat related if considered with the 'process' in mind ( not just the particulars ).
The heights that you reach with knowing more and your ability to help others is not always based on what you can personally do with your own equipment at the moment... it is one reason why this revolution of digital stuff is so exciting ....things are changing very fast....don't you think ??
Next year your panasonic GH5 version will probably have a full chip and a crop setting for your old lenses, and HD SDI BNC outputs...and a tiny little SD card ( about 3000 Terabytes )...and a recorder will only cost about $ 5.00
how cool !
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117. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
able123 Sep 23, 2013 11:41 AM (in response to able123)===========
While that isn't even close to being on my RADAR, I have to wonder if there are people with a GH3 that are shooting professonal videos.
==========
Furthermore... let us finally once and for all " define " the word " professional "...
For all of those here who are confused about this I'd like to say something straight out and to the point.....
'professional' means you are getting paid. Period. Amateur means you are NOT getting paid. Professional athletes used to be banned from competing in the olympics. That meant those who got paid. Prostitutes are professionals... they get paid. You can be a hobbyist and get paid for something you did.. and you are now a professional. You can be a professional and get FIRED and NOT PAID and now you are a hasbeen. The word professional has NOTHING TO DO WITH EQUIPMENT !!!!!
GET IT ?
hehe...I could use a bolex wind up 16mm camera to shoot some clip used in " GONE WITH THE WIND ".. and that doesn't make that bolex a professional camera. It only make ME a professional. Or YOU. Lets get real here....
For those of you all messed up about making a living in film and shooting etc.... being in a union doesnt make ME a professional....anymore than YOU are an amateur because you are NOT good enough to be in the union....( oh oh, now it's getting hazy )... unions have nothing to do with professional except that they provide the workers with health care, retirement benefits and a long term committment to staying in the craft and arts to make a stupid living.
so if you can please stop using the word " professional " , STEVEN, in such an arbitrary way, I would appreciate it.
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118. Re: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera
Steven L. Gotz Sep 23, 2013 10:36 PM (in response to able123)OK, fair enough. I meant video for broadcast.
People get paid to shoot weddings, but I doubt the need to capture using HDMI. The desire now and then, perhaps, but not the need.
People get paid for a lot of stuff. Heck, even I have been paid for my stuff. But my telecommunications classes will never make it to television or to a movie theater near you.
I have a YouTube video that has been watched, at least in part, over 475,000 times. It will never see broadcast television nor is it very "professional" and would not count as such even if I had monetized it to allow ads.
I admit that I like really clean video, but I am perfectly happy shooting at 50Mb/s or 72Mb/s All I-Frame. I shoot that way, and edit it natively, without Cineform. Because my PC is powerful enough to handle it. As is your Pig, but if I needed to move between Premiere Pro and some other program, I might want to use Cineform to help me.




