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      • 1,480. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
        rainschub Community Member

        As I said: My critics are not against the Apps themselves (and I´m absolutely not only writing about Premiere only. Video is only a small part of my business).

        It´s more against the kind of distribution, Microsoft and "Adobe" want to establish.

        I don´t that one day my MAC/PC will first connect to my bank-account, looking if there is enough money to start up.

        • 1,482. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
          JSS1138 CommunityMVP

          Re-Subscribe, Pay for it, Download the whole Stupidity, Install the Nonsense. Bookhold the Horror. Open your File. Correct the text. Render again. Save. Delete the so called "cloud". Try to uninstall the whole thing AND HOPE that the installation didn´t modify the rest of your running system

           

          All you really need to do is restart the subscription.  It would not be necessary (or even prudent) to remove and reinstall every time you needed to go back.  So in reality you have essentially the same work flow as you do with CS6 (Open the file, Change the File, Render again, Done.) with the exception that you have to add the Restart Your Subscription to the front of that list.  If that's something you just don't like, I've no quarrel.

           

          But this has nothing to do with archiving.  Those files and associated media would need to be stored regardless of which NLE you use.

           

           

          I have to continue my subscription for a min of 5 yrs.

           

          That may be so, but the need to continue a subscription for 5 years also has nothing to do with the cost of archiving.

          • 1,483. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
            rainschub Community Member

            Again: I don´t have to buy my CS6 again, if I like to open and change an old file.

            What TH is so hard to understand?

            If my file was done with CC (and I´m not longer under subscription) I have to pay for the use/to open my own file, because I dond´t have any software to do that.

            • 1,484. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
              rainschub Community Member

              I think, meanwhile I understood...

              Bt Tx

              • 1,485. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
                JSS1138 CommunityMVP

                It's not Better when Adobe doesn't offer their customers choice.

                 

                That depends.  In this case, we've gotten two feature updates a lot sooner than we would have if Adobe did things the old way.  That's definitely better.

                • 1,486. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
                  JSS1138 CommunityMVP

                  Reality is try ending your subscription and then attempt to go back in to work on your files and see how your creating goes.

                   

                  It would go just fine once you restarted your subscription.  Hell, it might even go better if significant new features were added in the interum.

                  • 1,487. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
                    TheCoroner9 Community Member

                    Jim Simon wrote:

                     

                    I acknowledge [Jim's] knowledge of Premiere but he is an avid supporter of the CC system and he fails to see anyone's view opposing his as valid

                     

                    , nor do I have an issue with Adobe offering the perpetual license as a second option.  (Unless doing so would negatively impact the benefits we now have with the subscription model, and I strongly suspect it would.  But if Adobe figured out a way to offer both, I fine with it.)

                    So - Raise the price of the perpetual license. I'd rather pay a higher price for a perpetual license with slower updates  than a cheaper price for a subscription with more updates any day of the week. But give the customers THE CHOICE!

                    • 1,488. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
                      rainschub Community Member

                      You forgot a not unimportant fact:
                      I also have to

                       

                      PAY

                       

                      for every resubscription!

                      Even when I only want to open / have a look on my files.

                      Sure - I won´t download that whole thing again and again and again.

                      But after a while - let´s say 4 or 5 yrs - the necessities of opening old files gets lower.

                      Then I would have to download - may be not the whole thing but all the updates.

                       

                      In my case, I have to

                       

                      PAY a min of 5 yrs of membership for NOTHING

                       

                      else than open archived files.

                      And that´s a big difference to former distribution.

                      What TH isn´t understandable?????

                      • 1,489. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
                        TheCoroner9 Community Member

                        Jim Simon wrote:

                         

                        Reality is try ending your subscription and then attempt to go back in to work on your files and see how your creating goes.

                         

                        It would go just fine once you restarted your subscription.  Hell, it might even go better if significant new features were added in the interum.

                         

                        But I didn't say restart your subscription. End the subscription and then try to work on your old files and see how your creating goes.

                        • 1,490. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
                          JSS1138 CommunityMVP

                          My critics are not against the Apps themselves.  It's more against the kind of [license].

                           

                          I get that.  I'm only pointing out that most of your arguments against simply aren't valid, or are coming from a limited perspective.

                           

                          The only valid point you've made so far against CC is that your business would need to continue the subscription for 5 years to be workable.  Again, I've no problem if you just don't like that reality.

                          • 1,491. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
                            JSS1138 CommunityMVP

                            Again: I don´t have to buy my CS6 again, if I like to open and change an old file.

                            What TH is so hard to understand?

                             

                            Nothing.  If you just don't like that, fine.  This I can understand as an argument against the subscription.

                            • 1,492. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
                              JSS1138 CommunityMVP
                              So - Raise the price of the perpetual license.

                               

                              That's not up to me.  I'm just a user like you.

                              • 1,493. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
                                JSS1138 CommunityMVP

                                But after a while - let´s say 4 or 5 yrs - the necessities of opening old files gets lower.

                                Then I would have to download - may be not the whole thing but all the updates.

                                 

                                That's not true.  Updates are always users choice.  All you'd need to do is restart the subscription and the version currently installed will work again until you end that subscription.

                                • 1,494. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
                                  rainschub Community Member

                                   

                                  I have to continue my subscription for a min of 5 yrs.

                                   

                                   

                                  That may be so, but the need to continue a subscription for 5 years also has nothing to do with the cost or archiving.

                                  Counting beans here?
                                  It´s totally clear, that I´m not talking/writing about the cost of archiving.

                                  We are talking about the USE of that archive.

                                   

                                  With CS I could use my archive without costs..

                                  (I own the right to use the neccesary tools)

                                  With CashCow I have to resubscripe even if I have to print out or have a look on a file I created

                                  (I must hire the tools again, which I used to create the files)

                                  • 1,495. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
                                    JSS1138 CommunityMVP

                                    But I didn't say restart your subscription.

                                     

                                    I know.  I did, as that's what would be required to continue work.  The fact that you need to has no impact on your ability to create once the software is reactivated.

                                    • 1,496. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
                                      rainschub Community Member

                                      Again, I've no problem if you just don't like that reality.

                                      It´s only the reality of "Adobe". And right - I don´t like it, like most of the users.

                                      • 1,497. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
                                        JSS1138 CommunityMVP

                                        It´s totally clear, that I´m not talking/writing about the cost of archiving.

                                         

                                        Ah, but this point actually was originally about the cost of archiving.

                                         

                                        "And if I add the costs to hire my own archive..."

                                         

                                        Those costs would be what they are, regardless of which NLE you use.  You have since made it more clear that you're talking about the need for continuing the subscription, which I do not quarrel with.

                                        • 1,498. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
                                          rainschub Community Member

                                          If I wrote "And if I add the costs to hire my own archive..." it´s totaly clear that there is already an archive, I can use, or?


                                          And we are talking about the so called "cloud" here.

                                          Most of the concern to this distribution is about this fact (Not to be able to use your own creations without paying to "Adobe").

                                          As you have a ++++ status I didn´t think, that I have to explain that for the ten thousands time on this forum.

                                          The missing ownership/buy-out is the Number ONE deal-killer for the most user I know.

                                           

                                          If you follow my statements back my concern isn´t as much about the Apps.

                                          But also true: The few features, that are new and useful, are not worth to get in a total dependency.


                                          Hard enough to escape from Adobe if you used the tools for many years.

                                          Hard but not impossible.

                                          • 1,499. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
                                            JSS1138 CommunityMVP

                                            If I wrote "And if I add the costs to hire my own archive..." it´s totaly clear that there is already an archive, I can use, or?

                                             

                                            Actually no.  An archive is just a collection of stored items.  The cost to store those items is not the same as any costs to reuse those items.  They are separate costs.

                                             

                                            Likely this was just an issue of translation, which we have since sorted out and I do not disagree with you.  But as this is an English language forum, I felt it necessary to point out for other readers that your claim, as written in English, was not valid.

                                            • 1,500. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
                                              rainschub Community Member

                                              I would have paid double or treble with a serious distribution and a serious buy out.

                                              Don´t need the update horror (allways waited with installation till the first buggs where gone).

                                              • 1,501. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
                                                JSS1138 CommunityMVP

                                                That seems rather silly to me, but...it is your money.

                                                • 1,502. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
                                                  rainschub Community Member

                                                  Here in Germany it would be absolut correct.

                                                  "I hire my own archive" implements, that there is allready an archive.
                                                  And now I have to hire that.

                                                  That it´s my own archive makes the sentence curious
                                                  (because people might think - why he has to pay, if the archive is his own?)

                                                  That doesn´t belong to the costs of the archive itselve.

                                                  It belongs to the costs using this (given as existing) archive.

                                                  • 1,503. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
                                                    JSS1138 CommunityMVP

                                                    Here in Germany it would be absolut correct.

                                                     

                                                    But this is not the German language forum.  That can be found below:

                                                     

                                                    http://forums.adobe.com/community/international_forums/deutsche?view=discussions

                                                    • 1,504. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
                                                      rainschub Community Member

                                                      And I can´t understand anyone who jumps on this "cloud" named nonsense.

                                                      It has to do with the secure access to my clients files.

                                                      Money/Costs are absolutely not my problem here.

                                                      A ever updated Master Collection is nearby 10 yrs of Membership (since then CashCow becomes more expansive, but I thnk prices will raise tremendous within next year) - but I would prefer. No, absolutely no question.

                                                      You can call that silly, but most of my customers are very lucky with me.

                                                      And how I handle their files and work.

                                                       

                                                      The possibility, that Adobe can theoretical take what ever they want, for re-subscriping is something I don´t want to live with.

                                                      Renting is something I don´t want to live with in general.

                                                      Creating ten thousands of files, which I can´t open one day is a horror for me.

                                                      (May be because "Adobe" gets out of business and can´t verify my memebrship any longer or I have times of low income)

                                                       

                                                      Conclusion:
                                                      Be happy on your cloud.

                                                      I´m happy with feed on the ground.

                                                      I like blue sky and you the clouds (also that ones, one can´t see threw).

                                                       

                                                      I don´t think one of us can bring the other one to a different sight/perspective.

                                                      • 1,505. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
                                                        rainschub Community Member

                                                        Jim Simon schrieb:

                                                         

                                                        Here in Germany it would be absolut correct.

                                                         

                                                        But this is not the German language forum.  That can be found below:

                                                         

                                                        http://forums.adobe.com/community/international_forums/deutsche?view=d iscussions

                                                        German Forum isn´t 10% of the US Version.

                                                        Most of the time I don´t have that problems.

                                                        OK - my English is´t glorious but it get´s better and better.

                                                        But if you want me to go...

                                                         

                                                         

                                                         

                                                        I will stay.

                                                        • 1,506. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
                                                          rainschub Community Member

                                                          Think you are right.

                                                          Sigh.

                                                           

                                                          Biggles Lamb schrieb:

                                                           

                                                          Very good post in number 1452

                                                           

                                                          Just one problem, you are totally wasting your time arguing with Jim Simon

                                                           

                                                          You will never convince him that the CC system is anything but superb.

                                                           

                                                          I coined the phrase.........you have your head so far up the Cloud that the sun is shining.............as a direct result of arguing with Jim, now I ignore his ramblings.

                                                           

                                                          I acknowlege his knowledge of Premiere but he is an Avid (no pun intended unless you think that it is funny) supportor of the CC system and he fails to see anyones view opposing his as valid

                                                           

                                                          You have been advised

                                                           

                                                          Col

                                                          • 1,507. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
                                                            JSS1138 CommunityMVP

                                                            And I can´t understand anyone who jumps on this "cloud" named nonsense.

                                                            It has to do with the secure access to my clients files.

                                                             

                                                            That's sounding again like an illogical argument.  There's no requirement for you to store anything on Adobe's servers.  The software is installed locally, and all files are stored locally unless you choose to store them somewhere else.  But given PP's issues with networks, we generally recommend you keep all files local anyway.

                                                            • 1,508. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
                                                              JSS1138 CommunityMVP
                                                              The possibility, that Adobe can theoretical take what ever they want, for re-subscriping is something I don´t want to live with.

                                                              Renting is something I don´t want to live with in general.

                                                               

                                                              I think it's an unfounded fear myself.  I suppose time will tell.

                                                               

                                                              But if you just don't like the idea of the subscription, I have no argument with that.

                                                               

                                                               

                                                               

                                                              Creating ten thousands of files, which I can´t open one day is a horror for me.

                                                              (May be because "Adobe" gets out of business and can´t verify my memebrship any longer or I have times of low income)

                                                               

                                                              Again, I think the fear of Adobe going out of business is more than a little unfounded.  Especially since their stock is now trading at an all time high.

                                                               

                                                              As for verification, annual members can use the apps for up to 99 days in offline mode.  Month-to-month members can use the software for up to 30 days in offline mode.  So I don't believe this is cause for undue concern.

                                                              • 1,509. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
                                                                JSS1138 CommunityMVP

                                                                But if you want me to go...

                                                                 

                                                                Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that.  I meant only that the correctness of the original German statement doesn't matter here on the English language forums.  The English version of your archiving statement was incorrect, and I felt it important to follow up on that, believing that you had the wrong idea as well as for other readers.

                                                                • 1,510. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
                                                                  JSS1138 CommunityMVP

                                                                  I´m happy with feed on the ground.

                                                                   

                                                                  Then why are you here complaining?

                                                                  • 1,511. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
                                                                    TheCoroner9 Community Member

                                                                    Jim Simon wrote:

                                                                     

                                                                    The possibility, that Adobe can theoretical take what ever they want, for re-subscriping is something I don´t want to live with.

                                                                    Renting is something I don´t want to live with in general.

                                                                     

                                                                    I think it's an unfounded fear myself.  I suppose time will tell.

                                                                     

                                                                    But if you just don't like the idea of the subscription, I have no argument with that.

                                                                     

                                                                    Time has told by what Adobe said in 2010 to what they did in 2013 with CC - "What we don't love is anybody taking away your freedom to choose what you create, how you create it, " - Adobe 2010

                                                                    Increases in monthly subscription fees are coming as that is the business model you signed up for. 

                                                                    Cancel the subscription and you lose the ability to work on your files. Welcome to CC.

                                                                    • 1,512. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
                                                                      rainschub Community Member

                                                                      Jim Simon schrieb:

                                                                       

                                                                      And I can´t understand anyone who jumps on this "cloud" named nonsense.

                                                                      It has to do with the secure access to my clients files.

                                                                       

                                                                      That's sounding again like an illogical argument.  There's no requirement for you to store anything on Adobe's servers.  The software is installed locally, and all files are stored locally unless you choose to store them somewhere else.  But given PP's issues with networks, we generally recommend you keep all files local anyway.

                                                                      The ability to have access to my files is meant, naturally.

                                                                      If I not able to access Adobes verifying server for a long time, if Adobe runs out of business or I´m going threw times of low income - in every case it´s possible that I loose the tools to open the files.

                                                                       

                                                                      My files are secure. Double saved to harddiscs. One more copy on a local server. And for specific files/work results a forth copy on a outhouse server.

                                                                      No cloud solution, like the credit card server of Adobe.

                                                                       

                                                                      I´m sure, you know exactly what was meant.

                                                                      You trying to molify.

                                                                      • 1,513. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
                                                                        rainschub Community Member

                                                                        Jim Simon schrieb:

                                                                         

                                                                        The possibility, that Adobe can theoretical take what ever they want, for re-subscriping is something I don´t want to live with.

                                                                        Renting is something I don´t want to live with in general.

                                                                         

                                                                        I think it's an unfounded fear myself.  I suppose time will tell.

                                                                         

                                                                        But if you just don't like the idea of the subscription, I have no argument with that.

                                                                        There is simply no argument to take this fear.

                                                                        Adobe is on altime high BY losing money.

                                                                        No one - even Wall Street not - can tell, what´s the business success of the so called "cloud" at the end.

                                                                         

                                                                        • 1,514. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
                                                                          rainschub Community Member

                                                                          Jim Simon schrieb:

                                                                           

                                                                          I´m happy with feed on the ground.

                                                                           

                                                                          Then why are you here complaining?

                                                                          Because I don´t want, that bussiness Models like this will make our future a little bit darker.

                                                                          I don´t have to be a whale to be against the killing of whales.

                                                                          or?

                                                                          • 1,515. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
                                                                            rainschub Community Member

                                                                            Jim Simon schrieb:

                                                                             

                                                                            I´m happy with feed on the ground.

                                                                             

                                                                            Then why are you here complaining?

                                                                            BtW: It cost me a lot, atremendous and harming amount of money, to change my software nearby completely.

                                                                            It´s hard to know, that all the investments in PlugIns and workflows will take no longer financial effect in future.

                                                                            It´s also very hard for me and my team to learn new tools and ways of work.

                                                                             

                                                                            It´s also more than natural, that I´m interssted in the Arguments of the Pros and Cons.

                                                                            In the beginning I thought, that this is a joke.

                                                                            Meanwhile I think this business model should be fightened as long as possible.

                                                                             

                                                                            Once again: I don´t want to see the day where my MAC/PC first connects to may bank account, before it starts.

                                                                            And "Adobes" way is the beginning.

                                                                            We are living in a world where money counts more than it should.

                                                                            And "Adobe" and Microsoft and Companys like this (there could be added much more) are distroing creativity and happiness. Because they reduce all to the amount of money.

                                                                             

                                                                            Very philosophic. But I also don´t have the right words for it.

                                                                             

                                                                            You will never see me on your cloud. Believe me.

                                                                            And yes, I´m happy with my feed on solid ground.

                                                                             

                                                                            So, Jim - comming to the end - we will not chance our perspective.

                                                                            (or do you think, you will ever find a argument against this "cloud" which is valid in your eyes? Would you ver say anything against "Adobe"? No, Hm?)

                                                                             

                                                                            So let´s make a point behind.OK?

                                                                            • 1,516. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
                                                                              Biggles Lamb Community Member

                                                                              Rainschub

                                                                               

                                                                              How is your head?

                                                                               

                                                                              Is the flat spot on your forehead coming along after repeated hitting it agaionst the wall?

                                                                               

                                                                              You really do not know when to stop do you?

                                                                               

                                                                              No matter what you say, the sun is shing on certain CC subscribers and you will NOT change their views.

                                                                               

                                                                              Ignore them

                                                                               

                                                                              If you want to rave then send in a feature request direct to Adobe....................flood them with feature requests.............then flood them some more

                                                                               

                                                                              On this board we have the committed CCers (of which JS is the most vocal and steadfast.................. the inbetweenies.......................and the enlightened whole see the Cash Cow as just that.

                                                                               

                                                                              The CCers cannot change us and we cannot change them....................................learn from the posting......................just how much editing could you have done rather than try to convince a committed CCer that they are barking mad by joining the CC in the first place, by not joining Adobe would have eventually had to capitulate and revert to the perpetual license, so it is the CCers fault that Adobe are now a pcra company to deal with (rearrange the pcra into a well know word)

                                                                               

                                                                              Col

                                                                              • 1,517. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
                                                                                Snarky McSnarkster Community Member

                                                                                Jim Simon wrote:

                                                                                 

                                                                                I´m happy with feed on the ground.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Then why are you here complaining?

                                                                                 

                                                                                Hey, Jim!

                                                                                 

                                                                                It seems you have plenty of time on your hands to convince everyone

                                                                                of the superiority of your (just another user) personal opinion.

                                                                                It's a bit odd that you are obviously compelled to rebut any dissent.

                                                                                 

                                                                                There are a number of folks who need to be enlightened in this thread:

                                                                                No perpetual licenses are you serious?

                                                                                http://forums.adobe.com/message/5886645#5886645

                                                                                 

                                                                                Go Jim!  We're counting on you!

                                                                                 

                                                                                [Personal insult avoided]

                                                                                 

                                                                                P.S.

                                                                                Snarkemgood!

                                                                                • 1,518. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
                                                                                  JSS1138 CommunityMVP

                                                                                  Time has told by what Adobe said in 2010 to what they did in 2013 with CC - "What we don't love is anybody taking away your freedom to choose what you create, how you create it, " - Adobe 2010

                                                                                   

                                                                                  That's a false argument.  Adobe hasn't taken away your freedom of choice regarding what or how you create.  In fact they've greatly added to the "how" with tools like the Refine Edge tool and Cinema4D integration with After Effects, access to a full featured, professional color correction and grading tool with Direct Link to SpeedGrade, and many more new features.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  All they've changed is how you pay for their tools.  It's not correct to equate one with the other.

                                                                                  • 1,519. Re: News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max
                                                                                    JSS1138 CommunityMVP

                                                                                    The ability to have access to my files is meant, naturally.

                                                                                    If I not able to access Adobes verifying server for a long time, if Adobe runs out of business or I´m going threw times of low income - in every case it´s possible that I loose the tools to open the files.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Fair enough.  If you just don't like that possibility, I've no quarrel with that.  (Though while the first and third are genuine possibilities, I do feel it's that Adobe going belly up is an unfounded fear.)

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