1 2 Previous Next 41 Replies Latest reply on Dec 4, 2013 7:48 AM by Jim_Simon Go to original post
      • 40. Re: Is Premiere Pro CS6 a really "non destructive software"?!?
        hector berrebi

        so waking up a  sleeping horse here ...

        I came across this looking for something else,

        and thought I'd try to solve your confusion (or anyone else's reading this)


        this is my first post on this forum, though i used it many times...

        so I'll make it a nice and thorough one


        softwares are not destructive, only bad usage of them is.


        the "problem" you describe does exist and is still there in PP CC.


        if we consider this a problem, we should check where it actually might hurt a project


        there are 4 potential places you may encounter this problem


        I suspect you only checked one of them.


        A. your preview/program monitor

        B. your actual export

        C. your grading EXT monitor

        D. your external scope device


        color correcting, like audio, is a critical process which requires the correct set up and equipment,

        of course you can do CC in Premiere using your computer and screen exclusively, this is also true for audio finishing,

        but you wouldn't consider it in any project that matters, and send it to some audio editor with a proper set up instead.


        video grading on computer screen is notoriously problematic and has probably been discussed before

        bottom line is that there are too many factors that add up, from OS, to internals of editing app, comp's color space, your video card and its limitation, your screens etc'

        furthermore, your own eyes and probably lighting conditions in your workspace are limited and often not fit for critical work.


        that's why grading uses hardware. the basic set up for proper evaluation of video signal in color work requires a dedicated video IO card, and external scope feeding off the signal from the app you work with, and an external monitor you can adequately calibrate to 709 color space.


        for many situations, basic grading with a software only set up, ends up ok, and causes no problems, this is the case with many internet projects or private work. however, in film, TV and any other field that requires percision, software only grading a wrong aproach 

        going back to your issue


        i duplicated your situation and used a ProRes 444 clip that originated in RED footage

        my sequence settings were set properly to PR444 (improper sequence setting BTW, may cause you all sorts of bugs)


        I should note that the original filter you used - color balance, is not marked as 32 bit YUV and therefore shouldn't be used in critical video work,

        all non YUV filter may cause changes to your video when used.


        i duplicated the same frame for 4 seconds and placed the following filters on each section:


        1. nothing

        2. 3 WAY cc

        3. a combination of three YUV color filters (3WAY, curves and RGB balance)

        4. color balance (non YUV)


        this is what i discovered


        All-Scope mode in premiere did show a change in scopes when 3WAY is applied

        HOWEVER, my external monitor AND external scopes didn't show ANY change.


        this means that:


        A. there is no change where it matters to observe

        B. the signal going out of Premiere (CC) is clean


        the combination of filters had the same results (though a stronger change in AllScope mode )


        surprisingly, All-Scope mode did not show a change with the color-balance filter (which should change a slightly bit)

        maybe your thread did change something in Premiere. 


        the last place to check, and probably the most important, is export


        I exported my file out to its original format and took the file into Resolve.

        as I suspected, when using YUV filters, Premiere does not introduce ANY measurable change to the footage. that is both on external scope, and Resolves internal scopes


        the section I applied color balance on showed a negligible tiny change on both sets of scopes


        this to me is satisfying results


        and as for your comment on other NLE's

        I promise you I can show you horrible bugs, limitations, problems, 

        and errors on practically any NLE on the market, in everything to do with color,  its management and measurement.


        hope someone finds this useful





        • 41. Re: Is Premiere Pro CS6 a really "non destructive software"?!?
          Jim_Simon Level 9

          the "problem" you describe does exist and is still there in PP CC.


          I'm not seeing it here in 7.1.  Simply applying the effect shows no change to the scopes.  Tried it with effects on the clip and on an Adjustment Layer.  Tried it with CUDA on and off.  Tried fast Color Corrector, Three-Way Color Corrector and RGB Color Corrector.  The only change made to the scopes under all tests was the Three-Way clamped the signal to legal range.  But no colors were changed unless I made an adjustment.


          That is, until I tested some QuickTime media.  That still showed the problem, so...here again we have yet another reason never to use QuickTime for anything.

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