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1. Re: FR: Remove Gaps function
JSS1138 Dec 16, 2013 9:37 AM (in response to PierreLouisBeranek)I'd change two lines. First:
"Ability to remove all gaps between selected Timeline clips in a single step via any of three methods."
Your current wording almost sounds like any one of those three would do, but I'd argue all three should be present.
Second:
"Gaps between clips on all targeted tracks would be removed, while leaving untargeted tracks untouched."
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2. Re: FR: Remove Gaps function
PierreLouisBeranek Dec 16, 2013 1:01 PM (in response to JSS1138)Actually, what I meant was by any and all of those three methods. So yes, I agree with you on that point.
Track targeting should not affect this command IMO, since the command would work on any selected clips, regardless of it the tracks they are on are targeted or not. Please feel free to send Adobe your own version of this request though.
What do others think, should track targeting be relevant or not for a command like this? IMO, it would just complicate things and add additional steps for the user whenever tracks need to be targeted for the command to work.
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4. Re: FR: Remove Gaps function
PierreLouisBeranek Dec 16, 2013 1:18 PM (in response to Ann Bens)Interesting work around Ann, but hardly a replacement for a dedicated 'Remove Gaps' function I'd say. How many user steps was that vs 1?
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5. Re: FR: Remove Gaps function
JSS1138 Dec 16, 2013 2:01 PM (in response to PierreLouisBeranek)Track targeting should not affect this command IMO, since the command would work on any selected clips, regardless of it the tracks they are on are targeted or not.
I see your point. But perhaps a selection override is in order. If nothing is selected, it works on targeted tracks. If clips are selected, it works only on that range of clips, regardless of targeting.
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6. Re: FR: Remove Gaps function
PierreLouisBeranek Dec 17, 2013 6:19 AM (in response to JSS1138)Your suggestion makes sense, and I agree. Clip selection would always take precedence (if and only IF it is fully or partially within the viewable area of the Timeline, BTW. Enough of this nonsense already of Premiere actions affecting unseen clip selections!)
If no clip selection is viewable in the Timeline, then gaps between clips on targeted tracks within a user set IN/OUT range would be affected.
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7. Re: FR: Remove Gaps function
JSS1138 Dec 17, 2013 7:37 AM (in response to PierreLouisBeranek)(if and only IF it is fully or partially within the viewable area of the Timeline, BTW.
Sorry but...that should never be a modifier. It isn't in any other software, it shouldn't be here either. A selection is a selection, whether or not it's in view is irrelevant.
I don't think we'll ever agree on this part.
Though I would agree that In/Out range should be respected when set.
So...first priority is selection, second is In/Out range, third is targeted tracks. PP currently works like that on some sequence operations, so it makes sense it would do the same for a new Remove Gaps feature as well.
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8. Re: FR: Remove Gaps function
PierreLouisBeranek Dec 17, 2013 6:03 PM (in response to JSS1138)Jim Simon wrote:
Sorry but...that should never be a modifier. It isn't in any other software, it shouldn't be here either.
1300's: Everyone thinks the world is flat therefore Jim thinks you should too. Conform!!!
Riiiight.
I couldn't care less if 'viewability' isn't a 'modifier' in other programs or not. BTW, you know this for a fact that no other software restricts operations to viewable selected media/items? Your bold statement certainly seems to imply so!
In Premiere Pro, it makes zero sense for the software to allow operations to take place on a clip selection that is completely out of view in the Timeline. Why? Because much (and I mean much much!) more often then not, it leads to user errors. Besides, how often do editors actually want to modify a completely hidden clip selection? In my case, and I honestly believe I speak for most editors out there, never.
You're right. We probably will never agree on this point as you've made clear. I advocate intelligent workflows that limit possibilities of user error, without limiting useful workflow options. You seem to advocate conformity to the status quo, no matter how illogical/impractical it may be. And yes, being able to delete (among several other functions) an unseen clip selection is both illogical and impractical.
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9. Re: FR: Remove Gaps function
JSS1138 Dec 17, 2013 11:57 PM (in response to PierreLouisBeranek)BTW, you know this for a fact that no other software restricts operations to viewable selected media/items? Your bold statement certainly seems to imply so!
Yes, Pierre, I checked them all.
In Premiere Pro, it makes zero sense for the software to allow operations to take place on a clip selection that is completely out of view in the Timeline
It makes perfect sense for the simple fact that the selection is made. You can't expect Premiere Pro to know when you made that selection by mistake and when you did it on purpose. So it respects that selection, as is expected and desired.
how often do editors actually want to modify a completely hidden clip selection?
It doesn't have to be completely hidden. I will sometimes zoom out to select a range of clips, then zoom back in see the operation being performed.
The point is, you made the selection, the operation works on that selection. Any other behavior is incorrect and defeats the purpose of being able to make a selection.
I advocate intelligent workflows that limit possibilities of user error
And I advocate software that does what the editor tells it to do without assuming that editor could be making a mistake and simply not doing it. I don't want HAL for an NLE.
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10. Re: FR: Remove Gaps function
PierreLouisBeranek Dec 19, 2013 4:23 PM (in response to JSS1138)Jim Simon wrote:
Yes, Pierre, I checked them all.
You checked every program out there in existence? Right...
Jim Simon wrote:
It makes perfect sense for the simple fact that the selection is made. You can't expect Premiere Pro to know when you made that selection by mistake and when you did it on purpose. So it respects that selection, as is expected and desired.
Clips get selected all of the time NOT because the users is choosing to select the clip(s) per se, but because it's a means to an end. For example, a user wants to edit a clip's effects? That user needs to select the clip so that it opens up in the ECW. Requiring that the user actively deselects clips every single time, so that they don't delete them by mistake when they're completely out of view, ADDS steps that wouldn't be necessary if Premiere were smart enough to not allow unintentional changes to be made a completely unseen clip selection.
Jim Simon wrote:
how often do editors actually want to modify a completely hidden clip selection?
It doesn't have to be completely hidden. I will sometimes zoom out to select a range of clips, then zoom back in see the operation being performed.
Are you just playing stupid, or do you actually still not get it Jim? If a selection is partially visible, I said and will say again for the last time that all actions should work as usual. My argument is only for when a clip selection is completely unseen, and therefore far too prone to accidental modification by a user that DOES NOT REALIZE that something was left selected. Get it? Arguying that Premiere shouldn't be improved in this regard because users shouldn't make this mistake in the first place is as stupid as saying that cars shouldn't have seatbelts and airbags because drivers shouldn't be getting into accidents. And by the way, your reference to not wanting HAL for an NLE only goes to show how dumb you can get with your arguments.




