What file types exhibit this problem? Can you post one to a file download site?
Adobe has indicated there are no issues with Mavericks OS X 10.9 when running the latest builds of CC and CS6 apps
Are you running LR5.3 Final?
Adobe is wrong.
Every file type exhibits this problem (jpg, tiff, raw), 16 bit and 8 bit with every color profile (sRGB, AdobeRGB, ProPhoto).
Yes I am running 5.3 final and the other 8 Macs I tested were running 5.3 final too.
Here is an example:
Look at the rocks in the shadows on the right side of the waterfall (is the same example I posted here before), they are really different if opened in PS or between Library Module and Develop Module.
Every image that contains shadows from a value of 20 to 0 is right for the issue...
Some photos are really different when you open them into Ps or when you switch between the Library Module and the Develop Module (try taking night shots with lots of shadows with a value < 20 ).
You must have created a monitor profile with any of the profiling softwares on the market and you will see clearly the problem.
Adobe Certified Expert
As you have already mentioned the issue does not occur on Windows systems. When I compare the image in LR5.3 and PS CS6 on my Windows 7 system they are identical.
First suspect would be the Graphics drivers and it looks like there is an OS X 10.9.1 update that addresses graphics driver issues:
...and an OS X 10.9.2 update in the works that also includes graphics drivers updates:
You can report this as a problem here:
There is nothing currently posted here with your issue.
well, have to wait for 10.9.2 and hope..?
..but if l software-calibrate the Eizo monitor CG 19 with i1Profiler, the LR previews working fine then, strange...
seems LR doesnt recognise the profile from Eizo Color Navigator 5.4.5
im on an mac pro 5.1
Guys, EVERY MAC running Mavericks just suffer this issue: it happens both on ATI equipped Mac and Intel ones regardless of the monitor installed. I don't think it's a driver relate problem.
Yes, on Windows images are identical.
Adobe should reprogram Lightroom 5 for Mac to solve this issue: no professional use of it for now. Really disappointing...
What should I tell to my Lr class students? "Well guys shadows are all wrong if you use Mavericks"? No big deal...
Adobe Certified Expert
If you are running Mountain Lion then Lr doesn't manage LUT profiles (profiles created by Eizo Color Navigator), if you use i1 Profiler which creates a Matrix based one everything would be fine.
If you are running Mavericks there's no way to make Lr working properly.
You shouldn't use i1 Profiler to calibrate your Eizo CG. You should download the latest Eizo Color Navigator software v 6.4.6.
Adobe Certified Expert
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Finn, would you mind testing something for me - download a trial of BasICColor Display and try profiling using that, with it set to Matrix and the v4 box UNchecked.
I can't repro the problem on my EIZO, which means there must be something different between our machines or profiles.
Excellent. Yes, hardware calibration still works with matrix profiles.
You could also check the EIZO software update that Max mentioned - hopefully that will give you the same result as BasICColor.
Max, thank you for starting the tread
I tried 6.4.6 version, but Eizo have not made support for CG19 monitor, so it doesnt work at all
well, others have to try version 6.4.6, didnt work on my monitor..
I don't see this problem using LR 5.3 on Mac OS 10.9.1. Calibrated to a v2 profile using a simple Spyder3Pro. Must be quite specific to the calibration solution. Weird that it would be OS dependent. Lightroom supposedly uses the Adobe Color Engine which should be the exact same code as is used in Photoshop so it is strange that there would be a difference but then again the LUT v4 ICC profile problem has been a very long standing one that Photoshop never had. I even took screenshots from the display of your file in Lightroom and PS and overlaid them and they are virtually the same even when boosted using a Curves adjustment layer to show the shadow area more clearly. There are some very minute differences as the Library module displays previews from a jpeg preview instead of the orginal so it is recompressed.
OK, just tried and compared the Develop module with PS CC and the Develop module definately has darker shadows than PS. Not as extreme as you describe but indeed shadows do get darkened (doesn't look blocked but they are indeed somewhat darker). Not good.
Try the Black Level test pattern at Lagom:
Right-click on the image and Save it. No profile is assigned, but it's sRGB. Inside LR I can see the patches all the way down to patch Level 1.
Check it in both the Library and Develop modules and inside PS.
On my Windows 7 system with LR5.3.
Message was edited by: trshaner Added screenshot
Yeah that confirms it. With that black level patch image in Library it looks basically identical to Photoshop but when I switch to Develop all the darker patches turn mutch darker. You see darkening in patches all the way to 15. 20 seems unaffected. Clearly a bug. Very disconcerting.
I can see Library being lighter, but Develop is almost identical to PS here, as I'd expect.
BUT I can reproduce the problem with Max's profile. I'm flagging it up for the team (note that Adobe is closed at the moment, so there may be a delay)
I can confirm develop is little darker than library, even after sucessfull calibration with basiCColor.
But Im now sure after checking 20 times, PS is more identical to library here
You can measure the screen values to determine the actual difference.
Do two screen captures in LR (Library and Develop) with the Lagom downloaded blacktest.png file.
1) Paste or open each screen capture in PS and 'Assign Profile' with your current monitor profile.
2) Then 'Convert to Profile' using sRGB profile Destination Color Space.
3) Open the original Lagom downloaded blacktest.png file in PS (values are 100% correct).
Use the PS Eydropper tool with Sample Size of 11x11 tool to measure the "average" patch RGB values.
On my Windows 7 system the patch difference between the LR Library and Develop screen captures is no more than ±1 level, with the Library module about 1 level lower (i.e. darker) on some patches. This is a very small difference, which was only visible using an AB overlay comparison in PS.
I can't obtain a right profile even with Basiccolor.
It isn't an Eizo related problem, because I have the same issue on my MBP 13" and 15" LCD Retina, calibrated with ColorEyes and I1 profiler.
Please if you have a macbook pro just try to calibrate and see if the issue shows up.
Note that only images with dark shadows are affected, some more some less.
Waiting for news. Using windows now, where everithing works right.
Ps: I'm asking myself if it'd be a device problem. Any spider4 user opinion?
Ok, tried to calibrate an eizo CG 246 with its own integrated calibrator and the same issue shows up.
I've tried Spyder3 and 4 and the issue shows up too. Subtle if you don't look for it and only in Develop. Again, Photoshop CC and other color managed programs are fine. Clearly a bug in Lightroom that only shows up on Mavericks for some strange reason. Hope Adobe fixes this soon as it is a problem if you want your deep shadows to be just right.
There are numerous posts concerning display issues after upgrading to Mavericks OS X 10.9 (see below). After reading these posts it appears Apple has done something to the graphics drivers that raises the color saturation level and increases contrast. Why LR has this issue and PS doesn't is still a mystery. My guess is that PS isn't affected because it's using Open GL for creating the display output data (LR does not use Open GL). It's pretty clear to me this is an Apple OS X issue and not LR.
"Basically, the sRGB spec is no longer sRGB, and colour managed applications that use ColorSync are completely hosed. Almost everything is more saturated then it should be. Towers of bug reports have been filed on this alone and absolutely nobody has received a response from Apple, which makes me think it's some retarded "stylistic choice" of theirs to literally try and make the OS "look better" (it doesn't)."
"A lot of icons in and throughout Mavericks (including icons in the Finder and icons in System Preferences) are rendering "darker" then normal. You can actually screenshot this and it'll show up. I've attached an example of this from the iTunes icon- 10.9 is on the right, 10.8 is on the left."
"Yes, they have adjusted the default saturation level. This seems hard coded as but I actually prefer it as it makes thing "pop" more."
OS X 10.9 users who also have Photoshop - could you try with OpenGL turned off? That should return Photoshop to the same modus operandi as Lightroom. I think trshaners theory sounds very plausible.
Under Windows all color management is performed by the application code (unless farmed out to the GPU), but under OS X the actual conversion is handed over to ColorSync (for which there is no equivalent in Windows). So I think this could explain it all.
Nothing changes in the display in PS CC when you turn off OpenGL. The shadows stay the same. I even made sure to restart Photoshop between changing settings. The problems mentioned above were an issue with the default profile Apple included in Mavericks for some displays. This was not a problem for the preponderance of people and also not a problem if you calibrate yourself.
So it's still a mystery why LR has the issue and PS doesn't. What about other color managed applications or viewers, do they exhibit the issue?
Since the differences observed appear to be subjective try downloading the blacktest.png at the link in post #16. Then follow the instructions in post #20 to measure the actual screen patch values for each application. Do a screen capture with your OS X 10.9 system using LR, PS and at least one other color manged app or viewer and compare the darkest patch values in question. On my Windows 7 system the patches are virtually identical in all applications, including LR Library and Develop.
OK. Just did this. In a screenshot from Library (shift-command-3), after conversion to sRGB, the values are identical to the original (i.e the numbers in the patches correspond to the eye-dropper values). In Develop,
patch = eye dropper value
1 = 0
2 = 0
3 = 1
4 = 2
5 = 3
6 = 3
7 = 3
8 = 4
9 = 4
10 = 4
11 = 5
12 = 6
13 = 7
14 = 10
15 = 11
20 = 19
25 = 25
30 = 30
40 = 49
255 = 255
So this is a major problem. Profile from Spyder 3 Pro. Standard icc v2 profile. I did the same thing on a Mac running 10.8 and there the problem does not show up. It is only Lightroom on Mavericks as far as I can tell that has the problem. Interestingly, these values appear quite similar to the sRGB tone curve and indeed if instead of converting to sRGB, I assign sRGB, the values are close (but one too high in many cases) to normal. Perhaps Lightroom is querying the operating system for the display profile and gets the (erroneous) answer that it is sRGB because of a bug in Mavericks. That would result in a result like this.
Looked at a few other applications, and amazingly, Aperture has the problem too (had to convert the png to a RGB tiff to import into Aperture). This is clearly a Mavericks bug. If you care about your color, do not upgrade your Mac to Mavericks yet!
Thank you Jao for testing and confirming this is a Mavericks OS X issue.
I submitted a bug report to Apple.
Ok guys, we're collecting many opinions that prove the problem exists and is quite frequent. Adobe can't ignore the issue anymore.
Photoshop CC has also some problems when it comes to render shadows under Mac OSX if the OpenGL option is ON and set to other than Basic: bad luminosity and color cast.
I found this issue on Intel HD4000 based Macs, I ignore others.
The right way to checking this issue is the following:
- Set OpenGL option ON and set it to Advanced
- Open a photograph with dark shadows
- Zoom at least 66% on the dark zone
- Go to Edit=>Color Settings and enable advanced interface
- Set Desaturate Monitor to 1%
- Looking at the shadow zone of the photo check and uncheck Desaturate Monitor
If the shadows change ( sometimes changes are subtle sometimes heavy) you have my same issue.
I fixed it setting OpenGL to basic.
Adobe should fix that also... But I repeat again: this
But I repeat again: this issue shows up on HD4000 based macs (mabook pro and mac mini), I really don't know if it happens also on ati or nvidia based ones
Exact same issue here. I just add FYI that shadows get back to normal in Develop when Soft Proofing is ON (both sRGB and AdobeRGB).
Darker shadows in LR Develop module with Soft Proofing OFF only, not in Library (and not in Photoshop and apparently not in Camera RAW as well)
Dell series U2713H Monitor with matrix profile done by i1Pro2+i1Profiler
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The bug report I put in was closed as an external bug. That means they've checked into it and confirmed that it's a bug that Apple need to fix (and I assume reported it to Apple too).
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Thanks Victoria. I reported it to Apple through my developer account. Haven’t heard anything from them. They’re more likely to respond to Adobe if they have submitted a report anyway. Hopefully this will get fixed in the upcoming OS X update but I haven’t had time to check into that.
Hi all, just to put in my 20 cents worth.
I'm having a similar issue with my MacBook Pro with Retina Display. But I haven't updated the Osx to Mavericks. My OS X is 10.8.5 build 12f45 running an Nvidia GT 650 1024 MB.
I got my Mac a few months ago but I've been relying on my Windows Based laptop to process my Raw files until recently. I shoot time lapses and I've noticed that when I work in Lightroom 5 i'll edit and export the 400+ Raw frames in a sequence. Only to find they've been exported lighter that they appear in Lightroom's Develop Module when compiled into a QuickTime movie.
I thought it was my screen calibration that I've done with Spyder Pro 4. But now that I've come across this forum thread I can see I'm not alone. So until it's fixed I'll just have to use Lightroom 5 on my Windows Laptop (which is a shame as the Mac is faster) and then just use the Mac to edit my Time Lapse video clips.
I thought it might help as I haven't upgraded to Mavericks yet.
Here's hoping they fix the issue and soon!
Btw thanks for everyone that's posted, it's been helpful.
Message was edited by: Phoenixomen
Phoenixomen, I am guessing that your QuickTime export issue us due to something else as I tested on 10.8 and the bug is not there. Movie export from Lightroom is just not very good and indeed tends to end up with incorrect gamma depending on which player you use to play the exported movies. What you should do is run the exported time lapse through handbrake (Google for it, it is awesome) and you'll see the gamma corrected. It will also cut down the size of the file by many times as the movie export from Lightroom is really poorly done and you can compress the files by a factor of 4 without losing quality. This is especially true for time lapses. Also, the windows and Mac versions of Lightroom use the exact same compression codec so you won't see a difference. In my experience they output the exact same file for the same setting and I'd still run them through handbrake.