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1. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
michaelgoshey Dec 2, 2013 4:58 PM (in response to S2-WCP)Hi,
Yes - this is how Prelude is designed to behave. You can apply metadata to your clips either during Ingest or after ingest (using markers or the Metadata Panel). All metadata added to your media in Prelude is visible in Premiere Pro. Please note, however, that at this time not all metadata created in Prelude is fully searchable in Premiere Pro's Project Panel. The 'custom metadata schemas' you can create in Prelude's Ingest Dialog are not searchable in Premiere Pro's Project Panel yet, however it will be searchable within Premiere Pro's Metadata Panel.
All markers added in Prelude will appear in Premiere Pro's Markers Panel and will also appear on the clips themselves both in the Source Monitor and on the Track Items when added to a Sequence in Premiere Pro.
Hope this helps,
Michael
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2. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
S2-WCP Dec 2, 2013 5:08 PM (in response to michaelgoshey)Thanks for your response Michael. This does answer the question but doesn’t solve the problem.
What about the new Live Logger iPad app. Will that be able to populate the searchable metadata once downloaded from the creative cloud to premiere?
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3. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
michaelgoshey Dec 2, 2013 6:00 PM (in response to S2-WCP)Hi -
Live Logger's markers can be merged with your video assets using Prelude only. Once added to the media in Prelude, sending the clips into Premiere Pro will show all markers just as if Prelude had added them natively via the Markers Panel. In other words, Live Logger markers are the same thing as Comment Markers in Prelude and they appear proper and are searchable in Premiere.
What is the specific problem you are trying to solve?
Michael
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4. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
S2-WCP Dec 2, 2013 6:05 PM (in response to michaelgoshey)I'm trying to have metadata that can be added to multiple red shots at once on ingest and then be searchable in the premiere project window.
Without transcoding.
Seems to me like we shouldn't have to re chisel the wheel to make this happen...
Stuart Andrews
+1-604-617-4120
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5. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
michaelgoshey Dec 2, 2013 6:13 PM (in response to S2-WCP)Thanks!
I assume you just want to add some basic metadata for the entire clip (not temporal)? We have had this conversation with the Premiere team (them adding support for searching the static metadata Prelude allows customers to add during Ingest) - so far that has yet to make it into a release version. It would be good if you can drop that as a feature request / bug into the Premiere Pro side of the forum to help them see direct customer interest in that workflow.
Regards,
Michael
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6. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
S2-WCP Dec 2, 2013 6:20 PM (in response to michaelgoshey)Really?!? I have to be the guy to figure this out, then request that it happens?
I have to say I'm very disappointed. I assumed adobe was a creative company that tries to stay on the cutting edge. These are features that should have been in "on location" not being begged for by customers in CS6.
So what is the point of being to add un-searchable metadata to files on injest? For fun?
Sorry to sound brash but this comes as a real surprise to me.
Stuart Andrews
+1-604-617-4120
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7. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
michaelgoshey Dec 2, 2013 6:38 PM (in response to S2-WCP)Feature priority is something we take quite seriously. That priority is determined by input from customers and their passion as much as from anything else. The more customers say they want/need a feature the higher it moves up the priority list. Time and resources are two factors every team needs to balance based on their customer needs. That being said, sometimes the "obvious" features are not always the first to get implemented.
Regards,
Michael
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8. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
jbranch04 Jan 21, 2014 11:39 AM (in response to michaelgoshey)I have FS700 and 7D Clips in Prelude CC. On individual computers we can bounce back and forth between premiere pro CC and prelude CC and see the Comments and Flash Cue Markers with ease. When we try to hand off project files to one another (as we are now in separate locations) both Premiere Pro CC and Prelude CC will show the media in the proper place but all the log notes are gone. Any ideas? Thanks!
Note:
We have the file and folder structures the same on both hard drives. We both have Creative Cloud but they are separate accounts.
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9. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
jinting_lv Jan 21, 2014 11:57 PM (in response to jbranch04)Hi,
I assume the log notes you mentioned are the markers and metadata you added to the entire clips. I'm not sure what kind of media formats you worked on from these two camcorders. As to the complex folder structured media (like AVCHD) and simple media files (like .MPG), the log notes are stored in a sidecar file. Please refer to the following picture. As to the simple media files (like .MOV), the log notes are stored embedded.
You mentioned "We have the file and folder structures the same on both hard drives." I just want to confirm whether you copied all the log notes together with the media files on another computer as well after adding the markers. The log notes information can bounce between Premiere Pro and Prelude locally, but not among the computers automatically. You need to share and synchronize the log notes first.
You can upload the log notes (xmp file) to CC first.
Then download the log notes (xmp file) from CC locally.
You can find the download files from the path in Preference. This path is editable.
Hope it's helpful for you. If there is any issue please feel free let me know.
Best,
Lin
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10. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
R Neil Haugen Jan 23, 2014 11:46 AM (in response to jinting_lv)LIn,
Thanks for your comments. You noted a difference between the use of XMP depending on formats. My two cameras (GH3 & D600) between them hit both the MOV and MPG codec/wrappers ... so it looks like the MOV will not need separate sidecars but the MPG will?
The Panny GH3 can also shoot AVCHD but it's been noted that the GH3 gives a bit more low-end noise and artifacting with that format compared to MOV and that combined with the AVCHD having a more complicated multi-file structure means I'll not bother with AVCHD.
Just ... want to make sure. And make workflow allowances for keeping the files and side-cars together, like we do for the thousands of RAW files we've got around here ...
Neil
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11. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
Rob Claisse Feb 10, 2014 1:52 AM (in response to michaelgoshey)I have to say that it is very confusing that there is this difference between metadata added during Ingest and that added during Logging. They are both called metadata and it is taken me quite some time (and after having logged 12 days of footage) to realise there is a difference between the two. I think if nothing else you should make this far clearer to users from the outset. This post is the only reference I have been able to find which says there is a difference. - I really wish I had known this earlier!
It just seems so strange that I can add metadata during ingest and then after ingest it is shown to me in Prelude in the metadata panel but that specific metadata is very much restricted - I can't add further fields to that set of metadata and I can add data to any fields I missed during the ingest.
Its very hard to see why there is this difference between to the two and why they are kind of treated the same in the UI, which makes it confusing. Even more so because you can create a "new Schema" which is effectly a set of custom metadata and this is visible everywhere - why isn't the ingest custom meta data just handled like this?
Also when sending files to Premiere, you say "All metadata added to your media in Prelude is visible in Premiere Pro" which is true but the fact you can only see custom metadata in the clips metadata panel is at times useless (where as New Schema metadata is visible in the Project file list). For instances. I have 2000 video files, which when ingested where given custom meta data, seemed like the right thing to do - now in Premiere there is no way for me to find a subset of those clips with a specific metadata value - unless I look through each one individually using theur clips metadata panel. Crazy!
I think what is so frustrating is that Prelude looks so great when demo'ed - when every video demo has 5 short videos clips, and a couple of sub clips and one rough cut. But in the real world when a project has 100's or 1000's of videos files things don't seem to hold up so well. No one from Adobe seems to have shown how to handle this Prelude / Premiere workflow for proper larger projects - and unfortunately its far from obvious how Adobe expect us to do this.
I'd be interested to hear the rational beind the custom ingest meta data and what the point of it is and why it is completely separate (kind of) from the "other" meta data?
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12. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
S2-WCP Feb 10, 2014 8:30 AM (in response to Rob Claisse)I agree. And the fact that nothing you do in prelude OR the live logger app is searchable in premiere makes it pretty much a waste of time.
I'm surprised a company as on it as adobe would release something so useless.
Stuart Andrews
+1-604-617-4120
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13. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
michaelgoshey Feb 10, 2014 9:24 AM (in response to S2-WCP)Premiere Pro is currently working on making more metadata created in Prelude available and searchable.
The markers created in Prelude and from Live Logger are currently available in Premiere Pro's Marker Panel. Take a look and see. Also, all of the static metadata created in Prelude is also available in Premiere Pro.
Regards,
Michael
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14. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
S2-WCP Feb 10, 2014 9:29 AM (in response to michaelgoshey)Neither of which is searchable.
We love you Adobe but this isn't pro grade.
Stuart Andrews
+1-604-617-4120
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15. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
R Neil Haugen Feb 10, 2014 10:21 AM (in response to michaelgoshey)Michael,
As stated in the thread above, Prelude demo's beautifully ... but also clearly shown above, it certainly does not currently flow with the other CS programs that it is supposed to be a front-end for in theory.
If we can't use it for that without having to know and do a lot of if-then=therefore workarounds, and search by this over there for that but over her in this other process for this ... we won't use it.
And we'll be unhappy campers. So, I take it "the crew" is working on some of these things? Hoping?
I mean, your folks never have too much to work on, do they?
Neil
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16. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
michaelgoshey Feb 10, 2014 10:40 AM (in response to R Neil Haugen)Hey Neil -
Appreciate the post. Yes, we are indeed working on it. Being able to play well with others in the metadata video workflow is a key element for us and our sister products here at Adobe. We appreciate the customer need in this area and are indeed actively working to improve here. Can't announce too much at the moment but rest assured changes are coming (and soon).
As always - I'm interested to hear the top 10 wish lists for workflow improvements and features here. So please continue to share and hold us accountable for delivering the right solutions for you.
Regards,
Michael
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17. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
R Neil Haugen Feb 10, 2014 10:42 PM (in response to michaelgoshey)Michael,
Could you pm me? Quick question ...
Neil
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18. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
michaelgoshey Feb 10, 2014 10:49 PM (in response to R Neil Haugen) -
19. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
Rob Claisse Feb 10, 2014 11:30 PM (in response to michaelgoshey)Hi Micheal, could you get someone from the Prelude team to answer my final question in that last message. I think it would be great to know what the prelude team think was behind custom metadata during ingesting and what situations they believe this should be used compared to logging with the static metadata & custom schema metadata that you can create when logging (and which seem to have far more advantages).
At the moment I can't see any real value in using the custom meta data (ingesting). Since yesterday and finding this thread, I've alternated my workflow to just use the post-ingest metadata and though a little less convenient in small ways, I can't really see any value in the ingest custom meta. Be good to know if I'm now missing something.
THanks Rob
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20. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
michaelgoshey Feb 10, 2014 11:38 PM (in response to Rob Claisse)Hi Rob -
Sorry - just realized I never really addressed your post...
1. Confusion between metadata at ingest and during logging.
Quite true. Metadata != Metadata. Prelude allows you to create to general categories of metadata on your assets: static and temporal. Static metadata applies to the ENTIRE CLIP. Things like frame rate, title, keywords, etc...bascially things that do not change over time. Temporal metadata is time-based information - primarily 'markers' for Prelude.
In our Ingest Panel you can create a basic FORM for custom metadata fields. This is static metadata, but a special flavor. We call this Custom Dynamic Metadata Schemas. Why do you give it such a fancy name? Mainly as an attempt to distinguish it from a standard metadata schema. A "standard metadata schema" is a set of key-value like pairs which reside in a file on disk. Prelude and Premiere ship with a number of these. You can find these in the Metadata Panel in each application. Items like "Dublin Core" and "Dynamic Media" are examples of standard metadata schemas. The fields and the types of values the fields can hold are defined inside a text file on your hard drive. These schemas CANNOT change in format (the values can change, but not the items). You can also create your own Standard Metadata Schemas using either Prelude or Premiere Pro. You do this from the "Metadata Display" dialog which is launched from the Metadata Panel's flyout menu option "Metadata Display". In that dialog you select the "New Schema..." and away you go. What you're creating here is a description file (schema) representing the elements you wish to track and store in XMP. (hold on - we're almost there...)
This Standard Metadata Schema you just created REQUIRES the presence of the disk file in order to be understood and parsed in our apps. In other words, you need to send that disk file to other computers you wish to use the same schema. This can work, but of course you need to ensure you share the file and keep it in sync. Not a very dynamic workflow - but it is functional.
Now then, with the Custom Dynamic Metadata Schema feature in Prelude's Ingest Dialog, what you are creating is something that actually live INSIDE the XMP metadata and is SELF DESCRIBING. In other words, you don't need to share any Standard Metadata Schema file between computers. All the details about the metadata are already in the XMP. We think this is a much cleaner and smarter metadata workflow. But here lies the rub... Premiere Pro does not yet recognize and allow for searching of this Dynamic Metadata. That is coming soon, but is indeed a hole in our workflow (sorry about that!).
And you also discovered another limitation in the Dynamic Schema feature set - it is only editable in the Ingest Dialog when you are ingesting assets. In one way this makes sense (at least it did to us originally) because the original intent of the feature was to allow you to STAMP all ingested media with a certain key set of metadata. It wasn't scoped to allow for later manipulation. However, we've since learned from our customers that this is indeed a desired feature... so we're looking into the best way to allow for editing of this data as well.
We continue to work on our entire metadata story and workflow across the apps. There is still work to do. The good news is that the right discussions and efforts are happening within the Adobe hallways and offices to get us there. As the pieces come together the workflow of having 1000's of assets you can effectively organize and search through regardless of which app you're working in will feel seamless.
Please keep the feedback coming. It really helps us focus on the most critical issues you face in the real world production workflow.
Regards,
Michael
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21. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
michaelgoshey Feb 10, 2014 11:40 PM (in response to Rob Claisse)Hey Rob -
Too funny! I was composing my reply (see above) when apparently you sent this request. Good timing.
Also - I'm part of the Prelude team so feel free to fire away any additional questions or feedback you may have.
Hope the info helps.
Regards,
Michael
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22. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
R Neil Haugen Feb 11, 2014 12:24 AM (in response to michaelgoshey)Michael,
This was a wondeful reply. Especially as it showed something that is almost universally left out in both demos and the very specific "how to X" tutorials: the heart of the imagined working process. Why and wherefore and not just how and what.
Demos do a great job of showing a number of 'features' played into each other without showing the working details of how things actually combine symbiotically. Tutorials typically show and tell how to add X metadata to this file and do this next step within this specific section of this specific program.
Neither actually has that much to do with us users out here trying to work the process through without surprises and gotchas ... just trying to get a lot done in too little time. Reading through your precise factual explanation followed by the thought-process of how it was imagined to flow from task to task and through programs to programs gave me more usable info on the process of using Prelude than I'd picked up from reading the 'stuff' on it and viewing demos and tutorials.
Neil
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23. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
needles27 Feb 12, 2014 2:01 PM (in response to R Neil Haugen)I am an early adopter of Prelude, and my biggest concern from the beginning is the discussion on this thread. I jumped right in with adding tons of metadata - some from the existing templates and a bunch of custom metadata - and then I was completely disapponted when I sent it over to Pr. I said it once before that Prelude can do a lot of talking, but Premiere can't listen. And therefore, the functionality of Prelude is completely hobbled. So many kudos to the Prelude team for all of their work over the past few years, and I'm sure they are hoping that Premiere can come along a little bit with search capabilities.
I work in Lightroom and the workflow there with keyword tags are the most useful in focusing in on the exact media you are looking for. Need a shot of a specific person wearing a hat indoors at a birthday party? That can be available in a second or two using keywords (Of course this requres the upfront work of adding metadata. But that's what Prelude can excel in) But Premiere wouldn't allow that data to be used for now...
Here would be a dream scenario for me:
In Live Logger, allow the user to set up a few pre-populated keyword buttons before a shoot. Also allow for quick on-the-fly creation as a clip is being logged. When logging live clips, you can simply hit the buttons as the relevant content comes by and that adds them to the metadata file. On the fly, you can mark the clip with things like the proper content mentions, the room being shot, the tone of the delivery, audio problems, color of their shirt...whatever.
Then, that comes into Prelude with the clips and becomes searchable for organization, rough cuts, and then sending clips over to Premiere.
Then finally in Premiere, you can do boolean keyword searches, so if you need to find a clip of someone talking about "Llamas" while laughing and wearing a red shirt...that clip (marker) comes up immediately. The possibilites are endless here. There is such a great promise to change how video/audio clips can be tagged, organized and accessed more quickly than any other editing platform - especially now with Live Logger - but the implementation is at a dead end for the moment. (Premiere, C'mon!)
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24. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
michaelgoshey Feb 12, 2014 4:58 PM (in response to needles27)Awesome post!! Thank you for your insight and needs. We share this vision on the Prelude team. And I am happy to say Premiere is now adding additional support for searching/using the metadata from Prelude. More to do and we are working closely with them now to get the full vision running.
I also like your idea of being able to quickly add new buttons in Live Logger while in the middle of production. Makes perfect sense. We'll add this to our TODO list for the upcoming version.
Thanks again and please keep the posts and ideas coming. Great stuff!
Regards,
Michael
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25. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
Rob Claisse Feb 23, 2014 11:17 PM (in response to michaelgoshey)Hey Michael,
Thanks for detailed reply - I got a bit sidelined as I'm in the middle of a long shoot, but your explanation really helped and I think its great to now have this on record so others will hopefully find the information. Look forward to seeing the improvements that come out in Prelude and Premiere with regards to all this metadata workflow.
For me I've ditched the ingest metadata, as its just too limited, and focusing purely on the post ingest meta which is working far better. I'm finally confident I have a workflow that will allow me to describe my media in detail and help me find footage years from now.
I have been keeping a list of a few other Prelude features/issues that would be great to see in the future:
- Metadata support for subclips. Currently we can only add a name and description to a subclip but often I have a long single video clip with multiple sub clips and each could do with additional meta - the same schema I use again a whole clip.
- Allow subclips to be nested under there master clips in the project list. An option to turn this on or off would be helpful. Or some other project panel UI that better handles clips & subclips.
- Allow us to show metadata columns in the Project panel (like we can in Premiere's project panel). This would be really helpful. After adding all this great metadata to your clips the ability to manage those clips based on the meta values is quite limited - really only search. Being allow to sort clips by metadata columns or quickly just view that data would be great.
- Auto complete for meta data fields - using values entered previously. Also would be great if there was a way to clear the auto complete memory in the preferences.
- Additional metadata field type - list - where you can definite specific values and they are presented as a drop down list when you enter the metadata. Its already present for some of the predefinited metadata values (like Shot) and would be great if we could create these types ourselves.
- Horizontal Scroll in any window/panel - sure this has to be getting fixed soon as its the same across several CC apps and its mind bendingly confusing. Horizontal scrolling doesn’t match the OS X “Natural” movement but the vertical scrolling does!!! As I said not just a prelude issue, common across all CC apps but drives me up the wall and maybe the Prelude team can be the ones to get this bug sorted.
That's it for now. As this is my first big project using the CC Production suite most of my time has been spend on the ingest and logging side. I am starting to think more about editing and the workflow of managing mutliple projects with a library of 3000-4000 video clips and its is still a little unclear, so I'm sure I'll have some more questions and issues to post to the forum soon! It would be great if Adobe could put together a case study of how someone is using Prelude <> Premiere <> After Effects etc for a large scale real world project, if something doesn't exist already. And not something fluffy that just paints the picture that its possible but actually explains some of the technical workflows that are in use to stay on top of a large media catelog that originates in Prelude.
Thanks again Michael for helping to get to the bottom of all of this and listening to all our woes :-)
All the best
Rob
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26. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
R Neil Haugen Feb 24, 2014 2:13 PM (in response to Rob Claisse)Good list, Rob ...
Neil
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27. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
michaelgoshey Feb 24, 2014 9:10 PM (in response to Rob Claisse)Hey Rob -
Thanks for the post and for the great feature request list. Happy to say some of these are already being worked on and for the ones not already in our TODO bucket I'll add them to it.
I also like your idea of a real-world case study, showcasing the entire workflow from end-to-end using our solutions. I'll pass this along to our product marketing gurus and see what they can come up with for that.
Keep the suggestions coming – and even the woes. Some of the worst woes lead to the most useful features.
Best,
Michael
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28. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
Rob Claisse Apr 24, 2014 1:42 PM (in response to michaelgoshey)A few more metadata feature suggestions:
- Allow meta fields to be show in the list view of the Project window. You can do this in premiere and it actually means that in many cases Premiere is better for organising footage - you can quickly grab groups of video clips because you can easily see/select those with the meta data you want.
- After searching in the project panel leave the bins open/closed states as they were prevously. Currently after searching every bin and nested bin gets openned. Thats A LOT of bins in my project and unlike Premiere you don't seem to be able to close all bins in one go. Means I can't use search anymore
- Copy meta between clips. So I add a whole load of custom meta to a clip and then find 10 other clips which share 99% of that same meta, be great if i could copy and paste over part of that meta (at a minimum select which custom meta schemas to copy).
- Short cut key to allow you to jump to the next video clip in a bin, and for it work when the Project panel is not in focus. The use case here is to speed up the addition of meta data or review of clips. You select a clip, add some meta and it would be great if you could then hit a short cut key and the next clip in the current bin is then selected and focus stays in the metadata panel or the monitor etc, depending on where you were. This way I can very quickly add meta and not have to continue go back to my mouse/track pad and go over to the other side of the screen, click on the next video and then go back over to the other side of the screen and select the first meta data text field.
Update: On more
- Allow bins to be openned in the Project panel as separate tabs, same as in Premiere. This is probably the featrure that would save me the most time over all the others.
Thanks
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29. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
michaelgoshey Apr 24, 2014 1:58 PM (in response to Rob Claisse)Hi,
Thank you for the post and suggestions. All great. Several we are currently looking at.
#4 Is in the upcoming release of Prelude. So that's 1 down 3 to go.
Regards,
Michael
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30. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
Rob Claisse Apr 24, 2014 4:26 PM (in response to michaelgoshey)Couple more feature/bugs for you :-) Not meta related, but organising clips, so going a bit off topic but here you go anyway:
- Dragging & holding a clip over a closed bin has no effect - I'd expect the bin to open temporarily so I can drill down into any nested folder
- Dragging a clip and dropping it on to a closed bin, causes the bin to then open and stay open.
- Undo doesn't work for moving files. Move a clip to a different bin, then CTRL-Z and nothing happens.
These go against what seem to be the normal convensions for folders (Finder in mac or Explorer on Windows).
Also inconsistent compared to Premiere - Pr does the same for incorrect behaviour for (1) but does (2)&(3) the correct way.
Some of the oddest behaviour in Prelude is where simple things work differently to premiere when, as companion apps, you'd expect them to act the same.
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31. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
michaelgoshey Apr 24, 2014 6:45 PM (in response to Rob Claisse)Hi Rob -
For #1 - After dropping a clip into the Bin (that you'd like to auto-open when hovering over it), do you want it to then close again after the drop or when you hover away?
For #2 - I cannot reproduce this issue with the new version of Prelude we are about to release - so hopefully that is resolved for you.
For #3 - Correct - we currently do not support UNDO/History for operations in the Project Panel. If you open the History Window you will see entries made for the operations supported for Undo.
Thanks for taking the time to share your input. Keep it coming!
Regards,
Michael
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32. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
R Neil Haugen Apr 24, 2014 6:53 PM (in response to michaelgoshey)Michael,
Good to hear at least that " #4 " is coming soon. Rob's list isn't everything but it's a good start. At least as far as Prelude seems to be allowed to "grow".
One of the disappointing things I learned during the discussion at NAB was the mention that the main dif between Prelude and Lightroom was the database part of Lr, for which there is no plan to make an equal in Prelude ... or any other Adobe video app. So for all the metadata we can/could/would-like-to enter in Prelude, it will always ever only search within the folders at hand. There is not currently any capability, nor is any under consideration, to give Prelude any sort of database capability to search through it's own memory-banks for things we have worked so hard to meta-stamp.
That ... is a very, very nasty limitation. Essentially, Prelude and Bridge are semi-equivalents. Handy with "open" folders, useless for anthing else. Given the size of video "libraries" we build up these days spanning multiple hard-drives, and the way that b-roll and some other footage can become very usable bits & pieces for other projects, this limitation is a killer. I cannot tell you how disappointed I was ...
Neil
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33. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
Rob Claisse Apr 24, 2014 7:18 PM (in response to michaelgoshey)Thanks Michael for the back adn forth, great to know you guys are listening.
For #1 - It a folder open autos it should definite close after the file is dropped.I don't think there either option for when you hover away matters as much. It could be a bit irratic if they closed when you hover away - maybe, hard to visualise either action.
For #3 - Any reason why you don't support this? I can't see why it woudl different from prelude but interested to know why.
And glad that #4 from the previous list is coming that will be a big big help.
Any idea when the next version is going to be released? I know at NAB they said a couple of months - how I would love, just that one feature now as I start logging 3 months of footage :-)
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34. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
Rob Claisse Apr 24, 2014 7:26 PM (in response to R Neil Haugen)Hey Neil - I know what you mean about some big features, like the one you mention. As I've said before I do think that Prelude works great for a few specific cases ie. small projects with limited assets or short term projects. But projects with lots of media or that will be refered back to over several years, there seems to be less clarity on how things should work. I still hope we'll get some case studies that address this with practial advice and examples from the Prelude team.
I do like the idea behind Prelude and actually in practice its all the little things that drive me up the walk or waste me huge amounts of time (collectively)! I do seem to spend several hours trying to work how to be efficent in Prelude and get my work done the "right" way or avoiding the short comings, its not always obvious.
But I think all these little things are essential if the base for Prelude is something that can be built on in the future and I love the fact Adobe seem to be listening and working on the small stuff as well as the headline features. Only time will tell if this all works well for each of us and the way we like to work.
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35. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
michaelgoshey Apr 24, 2014 7:30 PM (in response to Rob Claisse)Hi Rob -
We firmly believe that by listening to our customers we learn how to make the right product. So thank you for sharing your needs with us.
As for why Prelude doesn't currently support UNDO for the Project Panel... it really has come down to priorities. It is something on our backlog but has been preempted by other higher priority items in the past. Our goal is to fully support UNDO/REDO for ALL operations in the app - it really does come down to us hearing how important it is to customers over other features in the stack. So it is good to hear your voice the need here.
Adobe does not announce exact dates for software releases prior to the official launch - that is why you saw the "coming soon..." banner during NAB. But yes, it is "coming soon". Wish I could share more there for you.
Please keep the posts coming!!
Regards,
Michael
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36. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
michaelgoshey Apr 24, 2014 7:33 PM (in response to R Neil Haugen)Hi Neil -
Thanks for sharing - your point is well taken and fully understood. We have similar conversations here quite often and hearing the customer feedback on this topic is VERY important. I'd love to hear if a local catalogue/database is something other Prelude customers would also really like to have or are there other items more pressing.
Regards,
Michael
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37. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
Rob Claisse Apr 24, 2014 7:45 PM (in response to michaelgoshey)So I touched on it in my earlier post but my final comment (for now!) is that I feel that the real fundemental UX/UI interactions should be the same between Prelude and Premiere (and the other video apps for that matter). Its very confusing for users when two apps by the same company, that are supposed to be together and that have a very similar UI behave different for similar operations. I spent a lot of time double clicking on bins in Prelude trying to get them to open as separate tabs, it was a natural reaction and was hard to believe it would be different. So anyway, in my mind this would be my biggest request and probably save me more time and frustration that anything else, in the long run.
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38. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
michaelgoshey Apr 24, 2014 7:51 PM (in response to Rob Claisse)Yep - understood completely. This is certainly an area we can improve on and are aware of the opportunities left there for us. One of the major new features in the upcoming release was designed with this model in mind from day 1. Just to help highlight our commitment to this concept.
Thanks -
Michael
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39. Re: metadata from prelude to premiere
R Neil Haugen Apr 27, 2014 3:34 PM (in response to michaelgoshey)Michael,
Rob's comments about needing a continuity between Prelude & PrPro UX/UI is so spot-on. Oncet upon a time in the distant past of four years ago or so, a Colorist was NOT an Editor was NOT a Logger was NOT an Ae/Fx specialist. Now, more and more of us who ARE working professionally in these products have to do ALL the above. I know the comments over on say the PrPro forum about consolidating say the keyboard shorts for all similar functions (say, navigation) between the CC apps will get a couple old-timers screaming about messing with something we noobs are simply so dang dumb we ought to leave it alone or learn it.
As you know, that ain't happnin' baby ... we're here to stay & we're here to play, so to speak. So those UI/UX dis-junctions are becoming a real pain in the patootie for more and more of your users ... and some potential ones decide NOT to join the party over this, and others decide the functions of other programs are more suited to their workflow if they have to master nearly unique operands for every program anyway.
Give an option for "unified" keyboard shorts off the program's main menus, and you'll have an immediately larger group of happy users. Period. And one heck of a USABLE feature to advertise to potential clients. Let alone getting some similarity in look/feel/operations between programs.
Another major change of the last couple years ... I understand Prelude was seen by your staff as primarily a project-starting app, basically an improved "logger". And perhaps for clients that had numerous "standing" tv-programs that they wanted a software app that could be used by each of the indiviudal programs as a stand-alone. Which is fine ...
However, there are a LOT of us out here now that are building video libraries out of simple daily shooting, and could desperately use a database system that kept that hard-entered data usable ALL the time. If I'm going to take the time to enter meta into footage, but it's ONLY going to be accessible for searching if I've got the folder open ... well, I'm not too bloody likely to take the time, right? Why bother as an independent one-man user if it's just data for while I'm workign the project right now ... "internal" memory will be adequate. Don't need the computer for that.
I know people who've duplicated clips into multiple folders so they've got folders of about every kind of shot you can think of ... waterfall folder with slow-mo waterfalls, sunlit waterfalls, that sort of thing. But nearly every one of those clips also fits some other "quantity" they might search for ... so they've created hard-drives with tons of duplicated clips physically grouped by different terms they would otherwise simply search for.
They can quickly get to a folder of certain types of clips ... but good mama the work & cost of hard-drives.
Data is the BIG picture of today & into the future ... ingesting, storing, searching, & using. We users NEED something better than Prelude for daily work.
Neil





