5 Replies Latest reply: Jan 25, 2014 5:46 PM by jdanek RSS

    Proper File Setup for Logo when used in Flexography or Screenprinting

    jethrodesign Community Member

      Hi, we're creating master logo files for an international corporation that will be dispersed to different agencies and design firms as needed. We're also creating their corporate style guide with usage instructions for all.

       

      But I have a couple questions about proper file setup for the more simplified logo that could be used in situations that might require flexography or screenprinting. We don't do this too often, so just want to make sure final files are as properly setup and safe as can be.

       

      This simplified logo is esentially a 1-color piece using Pantone Black C as the color. HOWEVER, there are some areas of the monogram part that do need to remain white if printed on a non-white background color (e.g., an orange painted sign or t-shirt, etc). So I guess this means it would actually need to be setup as a 2-color file with an opaque white spot color, correct?!?

       

      JUST A COUPLE QUESTIONS TO CLARIFY:

      1) In general searching, it appears that it is best practice to put all parts of the image that need to be 'white' on their own layer on the top of the stack and set their fills to 'overprint'. Is this true and recommended? I noticed that if I placed the file in InDesign over a different background color, it obviously didn't work properly as the white was 'overprinting' the background color (essentially rendering it transparent).

       

      2) Is there a 'most common' way to define the opaque white spot color in Illustrator so that it separates properly and won't confuse anyone placing/opening it? I had just created a CMYK spot color with 0C 0M 0Y 0K and named it 'Opaque White', but not sure this will separate properly in all cases. Better options?

       

      3) The final logo files are being distributed as PDF files (they're 100% vector). Any settings we should watch for here to ensure transparency where there should be transparency, but the spot white to separate and print properly?

       

      4) Could there be any usability situations anyone could think of that might warrant creating a process version of this?

       

      Thanks for any help here. Having a difficult time getting really good, experienced help on some more advanced questions lately...

        • 1. Re: Proper File Setup for Logo when used in Flexography or Screenprinting
          tman69 Community Member

          dont use Pantone Black C--just use the CMYK color space and just plain 'black'--for white objects just color them 'white' (never set white to overprint)

           

          dont set background colors to overprint (see attached) I put a red block behind things so maybe you can see the difference

          (it's the responsibility of the print provider to make the 'white' print as white and it's your resposibility to build your files as you want them to appear) as you can see from the example on the right side, the white letters will not be white when printed on a colored background--but the ones on the left will be!

          I hope this gets you on the right path...

           

          Capture.JPG

          • 2. Re: Proper File Setup for Logo when used in Flexography or Screenprinting
            jethrodesign Community Member

            Hi, thanks for the reply.

             

            Yes, that's the typical way we might do something if doing traditional printing (offset), and this is assuming a white paper/sheet. And if this were just something we were doing internally, we might approach it this way since we could simply have a conversation with the printer to let him know "print the K channel as Pantone Black and be sure to print everything 'whte' with an opaque white ink".

             

            But again, these are master files that will be distrubuted worldwide and output by a myriad of printers. It will be out of our hands, which is why we want to make it as 'safe' and industry-standard as possible.

             

            Here's one of the threads explaing the use of white objects on a top layer set to overlay.

             

            - Anyone else in the prepress or printing world (or with a lot of experience in either in regards to flexo or screenprinting) that wants to expand here?

             

            Thanks!

            • 3. Re: Proper File Setup for Logo when used in Flexography or Screenprinting
              DrStrik9 Community Member

              I've prepped a lot of flexo, all art created in AI, and a majority of it trapped in AI.

               

              Each application of logo artwork for flexo needs to be evaluated separately, because of final size, trap amount, number of colors, background color, etc. -- So the "safe" route would be to just release the logo file in its simple form(s) without trapping, without white (in most cases), and let the flexo prep folks do their own trapping and addition of white. Of course, in your guidelines, you would want to show examples of how the logo would work in flexo, in various situations, including the use of opaque white when warranted. But generally, I would recommend releasing the logo without all the flexo prep stuff included. Othewise you would be taking resposibility for success or failure of your particular flexo implementation in situations you cannot predict.

               

              BTW, in really complex flexo applications, with many spot colors, including opaque white, it is almost always preferred to put the white areas on a top layer and make it overprint. But whether you do it that way or another way, will depend entirely on your production style in AI.

              • 4. Re: Proper File Setup for Logo when used in Flexography or Screenprinting
                jethrodesign Community Member

                Thanks for the reply! We were beginning to feel this way the more we thought about it.

                 

                We had made a version of the logo with all of the white content (basically just a big white shape to 'fill in' the knocked out areas) and put it on a top layer, set a generic 'Spot White' color (0C 0M 0Y 0K) and set it to 'overprint'. So we may have something ready to go if we end up needing it.


                But we know if anyone tried to use this in a document over any other color it would fail. And a basic preview would probably confuse people.

                 

                So we'll probably just make the 1-color PMS version with the 'knocked-out' areas empty. Then in the style guide we'll have to specify that this should only be used on white backgrounds or to contact us (or the client) for a master that could be used for flexo/screenprinting on a non-white background. Maybe it won't happen too often (if at all).

                 

                Just trying to cover all bases. It's so much easier when we know WE'LL be the designers and can work with the end printer. Challenging to try to make a fail-safe system for other designers/agents around the world.

                • 5. Re: Proper File Setup for Logo when used in Flexography or Screenprinting
                  jdanek Community Member

                  That's what makes the "style guide" all that important.  I have worked on several style guides, but I cannot remember dictating how a file is supposed to be interpreted.  You take most of the guess work out of the equation by showing several different applications of the logo and its usage, but stopping short of supplying the separations on disk.  Most good production houses would love to get style guides to follow.  However, each application is different and each shop will be different.  Sometimes, it may not be the greatest idea to print a flood White, especially in silk screen because it may crack.  Sometimes a trapped or choked 2-color system is better depending on the screen frquency, fabric, and inks.  You may not want to dictate which without knowing the print vendor's capabilities.  If I were you, I'd recommend, in the style guide, that whoever is preparing files using said logo should consult with the print vendor before doing any file prep.  Supplying the logo in its simplest form and also showing different usage scenarios is the best way to proceed.  Otherwise, you could be, as already suggested, creating problems where they shouldn't exist.  You should and, probably have, supply all of your contact info should anyone down the road needs to contact you, the creator. Since there is a lot of confusion regarding overprint white, I've setup logo files using process colors ( for instance 100% K = Pantone Black [ or an appropriate plastisol color ]; 100% C = White [ set the Cyan to overprint ].  The artwork would reflect that scenario and colors would be called out in the instructions for printing.  In the style guide, you could show the separations and the final printed usage ( Black + White on a colored garment ).  But again, this is too much information for a style guide.  The illustration of the logo in use should be enough.  You should dedicate a few pages to Spot color and process color applications, as well as specialty printing applications like flexo and silkscreen ( which are a little different in their approaches to printing ).  As you've described the 2-color, two spot colors, I see no problem setting the two to overprint as lone as they are Spot color separations.  But, as already discussed, you shouldn't go that far.  Not for this, not for a style guide and you only set yourself up for trouble trying to cover every possible application...can't be done as you've already found out.

                   

                  Message was edited by: jdanek