You can't even be bothered to spend the time to write your own basic components, and lean on "needing feathers"? What a cop out. Compared to writing Native Code, a little work building components in Flash Pro is child's play.
I pretty much like most of your comments (if you're Shawn Blais).
But EXCUSE me, are we living in the same year? Is it 2014, and someone still thinks that we should write our own components? Nah, I hope you're joking.. It's a kind of 8 year old deja vu!
I see no constructive comments, and unfortunately no answers to the correct questions (I'll repeat myself again - please someone answer Pantera, Joseph and Jean-Marcs' questions). Everything else is just a wasted time.
And please let's stop with that crappy "if you don't like it - don't use it". It's called feedback and I guess most companies need it in order to make better products
And please let's stop with that crappy "if you don't like it - don't use it". It's called feedback and I guess most companies need it in order to make better products
'Air is dead' is not feedback.
And you don't help this topic become meaningful with such conclusions, captain obvious Questions were asked, things were discussed. I see you can't answer anything, but anyways thanks for the great comment!
What does that even mean?
I'm an ex Flex/AIR developer that just came on to check the status of AIR myself as I was curious about its status. I can honestly say that whether or not it's true, Adobe certainly does give the impression that AIR is dead. The developer support from the company is definitely not as strong as from other platforms.
I agree with furian that the "if you don't like, don't use it" attitude is not really a great response. It seems that nowadays users of software have a more "we'll sit here and take it" attitude rather than demanding a certain level of support from the company. It's no accident that Flash has been kicked to the curb even Adobe didn't put up much of a fight to draw a developer base.
It's bad enough that Adobe is a tough sell out there in the field. Not demanding better developer support structure gives the "other side" ammo IMHO.
I'm not sure why you guys think you're in a position to 'demand' anything. You're just beating a horse that has been dead for close to 2 years.
Idle ******** in a forum is not going to change anything. The only real impact you guys are having is to poison the well, spreading FUD, and ruining whatever sense of community that may have left.
If you care about AIR, do something to help it out.
No components? WRITE SOME. Help the community. Give back. Don't sit there with your hands out, expecting to be given everything on a silver platter.
Write some ANE's to add something to the platform, or create some blog posts to help evangalize the platform.
Something. Anything. Anything is better than just whining and complaining like little spoiled babies.
If you think everything is roses on other platforms, then go, get some experience, and come back when you have a bit more wisdom.
I think your answer is very clever.
but I can say that we come here to "whine".
I'm an Adobe customer and CLAIM keeps pace with other technologies.
No one here says that AIR sucks. But it died!
The question that do you in this forum (dedicated to AIR and not pizzas) is:
The feeling is that Adobe has dropped. Is it true?
So far I have not read a CONVINCING response.
To stop technology, today, is a drama. I need a tool to make money not a community.
If I go to do something "fun" I do it in c++.
Can you tell me "take it or leave it". Ok! I LEAVE. In fact my projects I will them with other tools.
Of course I'm sorry.
1) AIR I really like
2) I'm not like those cool programmers of this forum that change platform as if they changed his underwear.
I know, I'm poor! But bring my code on another system and studying a new language is annoying.
Let me say, finally, that I very much appreciate flash developers ... but I'm not satisfied with the administration of Adobe!
There are much smaller companies who manage to promote (and invest) better on their products.
without wishing to make controversy.
do not bother anymore, because I got my answer.
I agree with you, Shawn, but what you're talking about should've been done 5 years ago (and even more). And some people did - there are alot of open sourced things, but Adobe WAITED YEARS before supporting someone (you know how obsolete open source projects get in Flash community). And they supported Feathers and Starling. While the latter is great, I don't think anyone really likes the workflow of Feathers.
But HEY! Adobe sponsored A SINGLE DEVELOPER to develop one of the core functionalities - UI components! (clapping sounds) You find this normal? Seriously? Do I have to feel guilty because of the fact that it took years for Adobe to make one of the dumbest decisions ever - to outsource such a core task to a single guy? Come on, let's everyone out here start making it's own framework for components
As we sit here and pray for any constructive answer from Adobe, others are working: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=644044388975187 (sorry, couldn't find video on youtube).
This says it all! Tanki is one of the fewest games that took real advantage of Stage3D (along with King's Road). And they dropped it! Yeah I know it's not AIR, but it's even worse.
Meanwhile we're talking about building our own components, and applausing the fascinating innovation of having more characters in text field (clap clap)!
Adobe sponsored A SINGLE DEVELOPER to develop one of the core functionalities - UI components! (clapping sounds) You find this normal?
It's not the first time, too. Remember Flash IDE UI components by Grant Skinner?
Maybe Adobe don't supporting Flash Runtime as this was 2-4 years ago but this is not mean that they don't provide any updates and improvements. My apps works fine. Games of my friends featured by Google Play & Apple AppStore. They don't see any problems with Air.
At this time I don't see anything that showing me dead Air.
For the app is there for example angulardart.
I there I played a bit and immediately made me think of Flex!
Why Adobe has not invested on FlexJS?
Now instead use typescript + angularjs that I recommend!
Typescript is really good!
Time out a good framework (if there isn't already) in typescript to webgl and it makes no sense to remain in Starling
in the typescript would be very very similar to actionscript
Why could count on many programmers.
However, it is only to speak he!
Now developers have lost faith in Adobe.
Better write own ABC parser and replicate Flash to JS HTML5 1 : 1 and publish AS3 to JS directly without frameworks
I'm not a programmer cool like you! I am a ****, I admit!
I think adobe should make a serious explanation about Flash Runtime.
AIR should not die..
I've been using FlashCC for an animation (very simple)
It is remarkable its flexibility! Unfortunately it has a code editor wanted
And AIR (flash develop) for an app on android.
I love the order of MXML and actionscript.
To tell you that I really appreciate flash technology! But I'm looking for an alternative (unfortunately) like everybody else.
I just got my Adobe Summit 20124 Invite;
searched all the sessions and the word Air or Flash is never used. Hundreds of mentions of the Adobe Marketing Cloud. There is a session entitled:
Hands-on Lab: Building mobile apps with PhoneGap Enterprise
Still, nice to know that Robert Redford and Richard Sherman will be there with music by Vampire Weekend. Maybe that's where the Flash/Air budget went.
I could be mistaken, but I believe Adobe entire "Digital Publishing Suite" uses AIR as it's backend to deliver to devices. And they are pushing that inititive pretty hard.
In the meantime, I'll keep using AIR to pay my mortgage, and put food on my families table.
Here is some Adobe Air games that I know. They are fake. Don't work, dead and can broke device. Don't look on images via your monitors. Go to your foe computer and watch from it becayse it's cracking monitors, jeans and thunder comming after
Iron Force from Chillingo
"If Mochi had a more meaningful position today beyond Flash, then there may have been a different path for the company going forward."
Bye bye Mochi..
Here's what Mike Chambers said over a year ago:
Yeah, I hear you. AIR could be great as a general app platform for mobile (although I think that would require a LOT of work on the framework side), but Adobe has made the decision that this is an area where they feel it is not the best use of it’s resources (and is one of the primary reasons we pulled back from Flex over a year ago).
Adobe has answered the question - they are happy to keep taking subscription dollars, they are just not willing to reinvest any of them on advancing the tools. Air is Dead.
I wish Adobe would do the same with Air as they did with Flex - transfer the ownership to a respectable Open Source foundation. I understand that the revenue from Photoshop dwarfs the revenue generated from Adobe Air products, and that Adobe just isn't interested in supporting Air in the way it deserves. Please Adobe, allow Air to have a new life with the people who love it and will continue to care for it. This is important to us, and is not just about a technology product - it's a way of life, a culture, and an ethos.
Senior Software Developer
Adobe = bad merge. killed Macromedia efforts on web/software innovation.
I would like to share my humble opinion and experience with you related the topic. I'm working with flash and actionscript for the last 10 years. I've done everything from simple banner animations to complex websites and games. I've had a lot of trouble in some cases as most of you of course but I've grown to love the platform very very much. So as expected when I read the posts about the death of flash some years ago I was devastated. Until I read what was the case exactly... Adobe have stopped the support the support for mobile browsers for the flash player... I was like 'Who cares???'. Nobody was doing flash for mobile anyway. At the point the AIR platform was already on its way to mobile and that's where I was looking at. So I didn't really paid much attention to the 'death' news and kept digging and working with Adobe AIR. At first I had some worries about the performance. It was terrible and I really had my doubts about the future of flash. Then Stage3D appeared (not without a huge effort from Adobe as you might imagine) and the sun was shining again. Then Starling and Feathers came and some other VERY WELL maintained frameworks. So I've started playing with it. We even got an order to create an Android version of one of their games (not very complicated but lots of animations and gestures). We did it in AIR. The result was a perfectly running game with amazing performance on every device we have tested it on. What was interesting for me was to give the client the iOS version from our AIR build and compare it to their native one - the game was running so much smoother nobody could believe it. Of course the native app was not very well created and such but the point still stands. Since that moment we have started doing most of our mobile business apps and games on AIR. We do have some native apps because of clients requests but still I see no point in that. Currently we have three very big games close to release that are completely created on AIR + Native Extensions. All of them will be release at the same time for iOS phones and tablets, Android phones and tablets and Web in a single code base with some compiler conditions in the different modules. There were some problems and some bugs on various devices but nothing so far we couldn't overcome will a bit of brainstorming and some well planned coding. There is NO SINGLE FEATURE to this point of the development that we couldn't do. Nothing seen on other games cannot be done. We have in-app payments, social integration, tons of animations, amazing graphics, great particle effects and lots more. The memory management was tricky but not impossible. The game currently runs pretty well even on iPhone 3GS... I promise to share the games as soon as they are release in the next few weeks so you can understand my point completely.
So to generalize my point of view here:
1. AIR is far from dead because at the moment it's one of the best cross platform technologies especially for games.
2. It is true that the last few updates of the platform were not something spectacular but they fixed some problematic limitations and gave us a much more stable framework. The truth is at the moment there's not THAT MUCH stuff to add. There are missing features and problematic stuff (like the video playback for certain formats) but there are ways to make them work very well even now. There's nothing extremely new to the native sdks too. No big new features that someone would NEED in their app. And if there is a simple native extension is a much faster approach then doing the app/game in three different languages.
3. On the Flash side - for games flash is the KING and that's a fact. There are literally millions of flash games on the market and every new game we see on facebook or other gaming sites is Flash. Yeah I have seen Angry Birds done in HTML5. But there are few people in the world who can do that kind of HTML5.
4. There are some features in an app or a game that are times easier to be done in AIR than native. I have knowledge and experience in both Objective-C and Java and I have done some nice stuff there but there were moments I would have killed myself over something that would take me hours to do native but I could have done for 10 minutes in AIR.
- Native - much slower, can't really see why I should choose it unless the whole app I have to make is build on extremely native functionalities. For iOS I would need to by a Mac machine.
- Unity - great platform I would say. BUT for 3D and for big GAMES. To create a small 2D game with Unity instead of Flash would take much more time and nerves. It is paid.
- Titanium - good for small business apps that have nothing unusual. It is extremely ease to use for this type of projects and a great alternative. But for something more complicated you'll get stuck. There are limitations that won't allow you to make anything you want to. Also not very good for games. As far as I remember - it's free.
- Corona - I don't have any experience with this one but as far as I have read pretty much the same case as Titanium.
- HTML5 - for me to say that HTML5 is anything close to AIR is a complete joke. This is my opinion. It is great for new interactive and interesting animated websites for all platforms. And that's about it. It has major performance issues. It's impossible to make anything work fine on every possible device, browser and OS. Even if you do it will take weeks and huge amount of cheating in the code with tons of if/else statements for each platform. Creating big complicated games with HTML5 is close to impossible for the regular developer and it is extremely hard to provide decent security, stability and bug free environment overall.
So at the end at that point Adobe AIR is the ultimate cross-platform solution for me. Of course that's my opinion and everyone is free to use whatever they want. But I just wanted to point the reasons I love the platform and why I'll keep using it for the years to come.
Have a great day you all and build amazing apps and games no matter what you use
great post, Ico.. our cousins from the videogame sector..
(the only one not exact thing of your post is that "who cares??" about the flash plugin for mobile browsers, for which (but finally I said to myself the same like you) I do not agree 'at all' - but ok you produce games: you do not need your clients users to interact from their PCs with their web customers, which may use tablets and occasional users use browsers, eg! on a mobile website we always need to launch an app - see later)
recently (in adb forums see https://forums.adobe.com/message/6316917#6316917) adobe finally announced Air is going to support android x86 architecture ("yess, god is back!"), this means Air is not dead and will not die. this move is significant for my evaluation of adobe on flash runtime.
the most valuable error here is that everybody are speaking only about games!
flash core marketplace "is" (should be) [realtime] ria apps & [realtime] online business+social platforms, because _they design_ a new level of the Internet usage (I said this fact also at the times of Macromedia). not videogames. game producers are [just] great cusins (like in the realtime field in general). the universe of (online) software is biiggger.
html5/js will be never ahead of flash(/air) because the limitation of html is that browsers must render html _pages_ (today they can be [true-]interactive, but they are not [true-]realtime: ->). since flash5, flash enables another client/server software development approach, where the 'client side' and the 'server side' are different software layers of the same application, and within this model the server side dictates in realtime the client side (the GUI) behaviours -- the model is mostly unused today for a lack of this flash-alternate_advanced_approach penetration in the Internet developers community but it is set to be the future for the [true-]realtime Internet software which is an alternate model to (from) standard html (to servlet) approach. I would love Adobe get it. I call this model Internet+ or True-RealTime Internet (see my 'old' little article on Real-time web - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia at p2 - of course I have my own implementation but the tecnological approach is valid for all flash/air/+ developers and [rich] service producers).
Once understood this angle, and understood the fact that from the industry point of view the trinomial web app+desktop app+mobile app can't be forked in the real life, we can face the reason for which - supported by a correct Adobe management of Flash runtime marketing - Flash could never die ++.
What I miss is if I'm the only one man left with these long-term points of view.
Want to be the Adobe CTO :>
The fundamental problem is the mobile industry itself......anyone trying to earn a living in this industry as an INDIE developer is going to be hard pressed....no matter how good there app is.
We used AIR because of its ease of use and its ability to quickly turn an IOS app into an Android app. AIR has made great improvements during the past 2.5 years that we have been using it and it is incredible how far it has come. Graphics that could not be handled 2 years ago can now be run smoothly on any platform with the latest version of AIR.
The problem is the appstore itself. Without marketing, your app is done after 2-3 days. It does not matter the price point, nor the updates or improvements you make in your app during its lifetime. If your app does not score a lot of downloads during those first 2 or 3 days of release, it is finished. All those months of hard work in development come down to a few days after the launch.
Forget about the other market placed.......they are not much better at making your app visible. You have a better chance at winning the lottery then getting your app to be visible without significant marketing.
So if Indie Developers cannot make a decent living making apps, then how is Adobe going to continue to invest resources into Flash/AIR? Adobe and others have figured this out..... there is no profit in Flash/AIR.
justin, your post sounds not to be about AIR, my friend.
you want to become rich with 1 app for which you worked on some months and because the fact that your potential customers (the entire mobile marketplace of users) did not liked your app in the first 3 days from your own launch like you expected (we understand what you mean), now the problem is about the clientside technology you used to build your app.
my friend, <syntax error in line 10>, (did you get different results with your apps built with other clientside technologies?)
'indie developer' is a not-exact way to see the skill you must adopt to pay your bills, in my opinion. you must be an indie software producer (before feeling to be an indie developer) if you want to pay your bills every month with your softwares: you must be able to find customers for your apps and yes, of course, you can try some "boom app" launch (but you must understand your marketplace: please share your app if you care) .. Edit: or "go to work" :>, find customers to make apps for (with your special skill).
Anyway, I used phonegap/Cordoba recently ... is really ****.
I never used phonegap for production. My choice it's Adobe Air + StageWebView instead
Hi guys, I would like to join the discussion. I have mixed feelings about the Adobe Flash platform, as it's a great platform with an uncertain future.
I am an indie developer based in Berlin. I make a living of my currently 3 games with ~25.000 DAU. Using Air/Flash I now support the following platforms:
- Standalone Website
- Windows 8 Store (desktop certified apps, it works)
- PC Boxed Game (those offline things you can buy in a store)
I do not see a way I could support all these platforms if it wasn't for the Adobe platform. Also, from a developer perspective, I love it. Looking at other tools available, I do not see a vital alternative. There are lots of game developers (large companies and Indies) in Berlin. The indies mostly use Unity, and I would consider it my first option if it wasnt for Air. But despite all the hype, none of the Indies I know are making a profit.
When I talk to investors or Business angels, and we talk about technology, I often here phrases like "Oh you are using Air, yeah I wondered how you could have done that with PhoneGap/HTML5". Despite all the bashing, the experienced people know how good Air is. The bashing mostly comes from people working on web development that have no experience with games and take their knowledge from fellow HTML5 believers. That brings me to the major companies: 3 gaming companies in Berlin that I know quite well are using Adobe Air/Flash for their games. GameDuell, the largest, also use Native and HTML5, depending on the usecase, where they reserve their Air resources for the rich content applications. NeuroNation, a startup by some friends with a 7 digit funding also use Air for their app and got recently featured on iTunes. Crowdpark, a social casino company that I used to work for, are using Flash/Air for their Casino platform. That said, Air is all but dead. The question is, is it dying?
I do not mind having to develop / buy the ANEs, even if it's getting messy sometimes (getting Facebook login to work on Desktop required some serious voodoo). But I also feel that Adobe is slowly letting us down. I do not know what they plan, but if I was Adobe and I was planning to stop Air support while pocketing as much money as I could from it, I would do exactly what they are doing right now. After the official drop of Air for SmartTV I found recently a page on the official website by Adobe still stating "they are firmly committed to continue developing Air for SmartTV". I know what Adobe's committment is worth, now.
In my oppinion the dilemma is, that Air is a great platform, but there is not a lot of money to be made from it for Adobe. Their weird approach with premium features failed, whatever that was. The thing is, I would be willing to give them more money. I would gladly pay 1000€ for a Windows 8 Metro Air license, and many others, too. Why dont they try this, I can only wonder.
I really hope that Adobe continues to provide support for Air for at least the current existing platforms for the next 10 years. It is the best platform out there. The only thing missing is Adobe waving the Flag and lighting all beacons, showing they are alive and committed, not only saying that from time to time.
Sorry for the long post, potatoe
After the official drop of Air for SmartTV
I think just like you.
also I have much difficulty in persuading the customer to use air
I also used phonegap for an (no-game) app and I can tell you that is a nightmare! (bugs, documentation, plugins, debug ... )
really do not understand why Adobe quit flash (air + flex)
xamarin 3 is a valid alternative (no-game app) ready just yesterday.
unity is a valid alternative (game). Recently also for 2d.
conclusion: adobe has thrown in the toilet a good product and our skill ... mbah
bad company management
i love this post! It is better to antidepressants
I do not think dropping SmartTVs was a bad move. Of course I would like to have as many platforms as possible, but better drop a platform no one uses (I dont know anyone who released anything there) than to waste precious resources you could use to develop more important stuff. But I do mind Adobe's communication strategy on these decisions.
I heard saying (this is not verified information) that King decided not to use Air, not because they felt the technology wasnt strong enough, but they didnt feel Adobe is committed to it for the next 5 years. What a sad reason to turn down an otherwise great platform.
Can I be very honest? You guys are really annoying. It is our roles as consultant and independant contractors to convaince our clients, otherwise they are not client and we are employees.But with such winning and passive agressive attitude no wonder you have hard time getting your client use not AIR, but the technology you are clamoring as being abandoned by Adobe. Where have you been for the past 4 years, under a rock? Because in my world with every single of my contracts for the past 9 years being nothing but Flash, Flex and AIR, that stack kept my work and my client a decade ahead of a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g else. Do not get me wrong, I have been among the most vocal in exposing Adobe failures and nonsense third world fused corporate strategies, as you can see on this post and particularly the comments:
However, what has been happening is that Adobe just served the soup to the HTML5 delusional but dominant market by developing some tools for which the media said Adobe "set the web 15 years back". In the same time, Adobe simply and very quietly kept Adobe AIR and Adobe Flash at the very top of multimedia and application development technologies.
Now instead of just complaining that Adobe does not do enough, try to see what we got and just get yourself together and do what Adobe is not capable of doing: communicating our passion, we are one of the most passionate breed of developers, because we rock the best and most innovative set of technologies and we have for over a decade solid. We've seem it every other year, when it was not Ajax and OpenLazlo, it was Expression and when not that, it was Silverlight and when not that it was Quicktime, and HTML5 and PhoneGap.. none of which ever powered even a fraction of an industry. We powered entertainment, gaming, media and enterprise apps including two third of the finance industry from NYC to London to Singapure.
While everyone is going coucou about HTML5, Adobe has been keeping the relevancy of Flash Player on the web stacked at 99% penetration by focusing on gaming and video, domain in which Flash and AIR advance along with Adobe's unbeatable integration made it untouchable. Even Steve Jobs failed, I wish he was here to see it even though he would have probably find a trick on stage to fool everyone again and make the world line up at the stores to thank him.
Now, the beauty of it is that no matter how bad at communicating Adobe is, they are establishing AIR as new standard for app development and they have been literrally taking over the entire digital television technology market, or at least they are in the process of. Check this out:
This is the head of digital media at NBC Sports, watch this carefully and pay attention to what he says, then read your post on this thread again and have some introspection:
Then, if you need inspiration to talk to your client you can find some in this news report, pay attention to th statements and again compare with the words you spread about Adobe and AIR dead (I'm heating up just typing this, I do every single time I get an email notification with this damn title):
If you have a doubt about Adobe Flash being at the core of whatever names Adobe has been using to not deal with the massive, global brain washing abut Flash maybe this article will help see it. This is Adobe breaking ground again and keeping Flash the defacto porvoyer of the best video quality on the web:
You are probably going to say but that was two years ago and Adobe this, Adobe that since then. Well, this is the head of digital media at NBC Sports again and it's in 2014, listen crefully to the statements, again. Because yes, Adobe Flash AIR and Apache Flex has been bringing both the 2012 and 2014 Olympics to unprecedented audiences, delivering the largest video events in history to all mobile devices from one code base. They saved NBC tons of cash and brought them a mind blowing competitive edge:
Competitive edge which I have been establishing as my technical approach of choice for application development from web to mobile to TV:
I totally agree with you that Air is great just as it is right now, never said anything else. But I am missing Adobe putting Air and Flash on their agendas. Last time I checked the talks on an Adobe conference, there was not a single mention of the entire technology. Same with the recent, largely discussed, annonouncement, that PhoneGap is Adobe's capital technology for cross platform development. I know it's an issue with the marketing strategy of Adobe. They should just allow their developers to talk openly to us instead of this marketing ******** that has nothing to do with reality.
Again, I love Air, and I dont complain about anything I have right now. But I am worried that it might not stay like this. And definitely there are people moving away from Air because of this impression, which worries me as a general tendency. Even when it makes me wonder where they are moving to
Btw I read your link about multi screen development before, its a good one
the problem is that while adobe SLEEPING come out Unity and Xamarin3
(sorry for my bad english)