1 2 Previous Next 57 Replies Latest reply on Oct 31, 2014 7:00 PM by netbaixc2012

    The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime

    chris.campbell Adobe Employee

      Hello everyone,

      As hopefully many of you know, a community based feature request page was created a few months back (Feature request for Flash and Air - uplist) and we've had a number of great ideas added and voted on.  In an attempt to better understand the individual requests, we thought we'd start threads on particular subjects to allow us to ask questions and get community feedback.  These posts should not be taken as a commitment to a particular feature (or lack of commitment to any other feature.)  I can't stress this enough.   I don't want anyone to think that we're ignoring other requests or to assume that because we're asking about something, they can expect to see this done in a future release.  We simply want to better understand the request so that we can reduce the number of assumptions on our part.

       

      To start, let's we've got a few questions regarding the request for "Integrated (native) physics" which currently has 142 votes.

       

      • When talking about physics, are you interested in a 2D or 3D physics engine?
      • Can you list native engines that demonstrate the features you want the Flash runtime to implement natively?
      • For instance, if you're interested in Box2D functionality, have you tried http://www.box2dflash.org?
      • Is there a huge performance gap between the native and ActionScript implementations of Box2D?
      • Are you looking for solutions for desktop or mobile?

       

      Thanks,

      Chris

        • 1. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
          makc3d Level 1

          To this part:

          • Is there a huge performance gap between the native and ActionScript implementations of Box2D?

           

          you might want to watch this video:

           

          • 2. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
            hnjps
            • When talking about physics, are you interested in a 2D or 3D physics engine?

            I'm interested in a 2D engine.

             

            yes I did and performance is very bad on mobiles.

             

            • Is there a huge performance gap between the native and ActionScript implementations of Box2D?

            yes a huge one.

            • Are you looking for solutions for desktop or mobile?

            both

            • 3. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
              Ben Leffler

              Agree with everything hnjps said - but my primary focus (in 99% of cases) is mobile.

              • 4. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
                chris.campbell Adobe Employee

                Thanks for the video.  Given the results, would an open source ANE project be a better solution than a closed implementation in the runtime?

                • 5. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
                  PhilipThonbo Level 1


                  2D please

                  Nape

                  mobile first (AIR)

                  nape runs great performance on 2d on mobile

                  • 6. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
                    Mahron Level 1

                    Native physics would be great for 2D and 3D, desktop and mobile.

                     

                    Not necessarily the whole engine but fast collision detection functions like :

                     

                    ray-triangle ray-sphere collision detection for 3D

                    or line-line line-circle rectangle-rectangle for 2d


                    those are the cpu killers(especially for 3d). The rest can be as3.

                     

                    In my opinion runtime integration would be the cleaner solution + it would be cross platform.

                    • 7. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
                      MSGhero

                      NAPE's api is nicer than box2d's.  Mobile performance is more of an issue than desktop performance, and I'm interested in 2D.

                      • 8. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
                        Rahul Kamra Level 1

                        2d Engine for mobile , with  api similar to nape on  Mobile / AIR . I tried nape on mobile, its fast but can be better.

                        • 9. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
                          makc3d Level 1

                          Chris: a number of Adobe ANEs already exist but hardly get any attention by Adobe. So, if you are going to make yet another (physics) ANE, please make sure developers will be maintaining it in the long term, OR you could just support someone else in a manner you are doing it with Starling/Away in doing it.

                           

                          Pro-NAPE guys: NAPE API is indeed nicer, and - unlike flash port of box2d - it is still worked on. But have you seen the sources (specifically, did you ever build them : ) In the same time, C++ version of Box2D is actively developed and straihtforward to compile.

                          • 10. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
                            FramaisCellarGhost Level 1
                            • When talking about physics, are you interested in a 2D or 3D physics engine?

                             

                            2D please.

                             

                            • Are you looking for solutions for desktop or mobile?

                             

                            Both, for me, priority is mobile

                             

                            Thanks for the great work you guys are doing on AIR/Flash, keep it up!

                            • 11. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
                              b_whiting

                              Hi Chris,

                              Glad you guys have taking an interest in the uplist we made!

                              From my point of view an inbuilt physics engine is something that will be a big commitment from Adobe's part that perhaps could be spent better in other areas.

                              Here is my pros and cons for the idea.

                              Pros:

                              Awesomeness, no doubt it would be a great and exciting feature to add to the list of capabilities of the flash runtime.

                              It will help restore faith in the flash platform... it is still being improved and not just with bug fixes but with huge new features!

                              It will put flash back on the radar in terms of new developers and probably help a few of those who have moved on to reconsider coming back to flash.

                              It would be built with flash in mind from the ground up producing a much more performant and gc friendly engine.

                              It makes flash a more competitive option against unity for 2d games.

                              It would remove a barrier to entry for more novice developers.

                              It would enable physics to run on mobile devices without taxing their cpu's as much.

                              Any new feature for flash is a pro in my books!

                              Cons:

                              It will probably take a fair bit of time/effort to get it up and running well.

                              It will no doubt need to be maintained/updated for some time to come.

                              If it doesn't quite resonate with what the community needs/expects it could end up becoming a burden and a source of frustration for some (not likely but still possible, i.e. if it ends up still being slow, or the api is akward...)

                              Time spent on this could be time spend on improving the current architecture.. if you could make actionscript run as fast as java (or even faster) in terms of math, function calls, execution speed etc... then the existing libraries would probably do the job just fine with a little tweaking here and there.

                               

                              Whatever you do we are glad you are listening to your developers!
                              P.S. Make flash faster... I know it can be done!!

                              • 12. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
                                pshtif Level 1

                                I think having high level physics engine natively isn't that good of an idea as the resources can be spend better and there are already great physics engines or ANEs. What you could do though is implement low level methods natively that will help speed up these engines without bringing your own high level engine. For example native triangulation methods (this would even help in other areas and was requested for long time), more robust native geom functions for collision testing etc. Leave the high level stuff to the community and just speed up the low level, I mean I was told years ago that you guys already have triangulation algorithms inside Flash player its just not made transparent to developer, why not? So look at what these engines actually need to bump up their performance and implement that instead of working on your own engine.

                                • 13. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
                                  Infin8 Level 1

                                  I would second @makc3d's comments. Unless creating a new physics ANE has some huge benefit over existing solutions why add more things to maintain. Especially when there are so many unfixed bugs still waiting for attention.

                                  • 14. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
                                    Mal_CanDo

                                    A native 3D physics engine, that could be restricted to allow for 2D physics, would be great.

                                     

                                    Having a fast mobile physics engine would be crucial, and also having native constructs such as eg character controller or vehicle.  The Bullet physics ( AwayPhysics ) is great for online, and the ANE seems like a good option for offline, but having these technologies integrated ( either Bullet, or Havok ) and easily available to developers would encourage their update.

                                     

                                    Here's a link to an example of AwayPhysics being used for a Flash game for the recent Lego Movie.  Without the built in vehicle template, this level of raycasted vehicle physics not have been possible.  Note that AwayPhysics was slightly modified to work with Flare3D in this case.  Also note that this is desktop only, a fast mobile version would have been a great option to have.

                                     

                                    The LEGO Movie | Glue Escape Racing Game

                                     

                                     

                                    Just out of interest, Intel originally created a physics engine for Adobe Shockwave to go alongside their 3D engine ( Shockwave 3D ) for v8.5.  Before releasing 8.5, they licenced Havok physics and shipped it as an Xtra for offline and online usage.

                                    Intel purchased Havok several years ago, so it would be cool to see a similar effort made for Flash.

                                    • 15. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
                                      Neverbirth Level 1

                                      I'm with pshtif and makc3d, there are already some libraries and ANEs out there, are you sure developing your own ANE or integrating physics in the core runtime is going to be beneficial and you have the resources to not leave it in oblivion or severly outdated? maybe in the long run it's cheaper to improve math performance/add new numeric data types/add generics/add native triangulation and geom functions. In the old days some of these were rejected because it broke compatibility with ECMA standards, does it really matter anymore? why not your own "ECMA standard" (does it matter if it's not even a standard? I guess getting a standard qualification costs money)? AFAIK, Micosoft did so with C#.

                                       

                                      Just thinking aloud, I'd love to get more into gaming, but I make (a lot of) other types of apps, so physics is not that important to me, and the things I've proposed would also benefit other things, like encryption, which would also benefit games, although in other areas.

                                      • 16. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
                                        Varnius Level 1

                                        Not a priority. Improving overall runtime performance should be a priority as it would benefit all AS3 libs, physics ones included.

                                        • 17. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
                                          zwetan_uk Level 1

                                          please go with the option of having an open source ANE

                                          but still do own/maintain the project

                                           

                                          if possible open source the already existing ANE

                                           

                                           

                                          reasons:

                                          - you may have already existing libraries or ANE out there

                                             but none of them know the internals of the Flash/AIR runtime

                                             as well as the Adobe dev

                                          - if it happen the project end up in "oblivion", not updated etc.

                                            being open source it allows other dev to keep updating it or at worst fork it

                                          - don't fool yourself, such project can not be dependent on Adobe only

                                            as developers you need to contribute or such project will never come to life

                                           

                                          now, let's see what can happen,

                                          a bunch of dev works either on NAPE or Box2D native port in an ANE
                                          with the help of a couple Adobe folks

                                           

                                          -> when the dev hit big problems related to the AIR runtime, the Adobe dev can push them in the right direction

                                          -> the work will mainly be done by those dev, not really the Adobe dev

                                           

                                          the worst situation imho would be to have 3 or 4 devs instead of joining forces under 1 project,

                                          to split into 3 or 4 different projects ...

                                           

                                          worst than that, having no contact or help from Adobe, for when the really tough problems occurs

                                          you have really no one to turn to ask questions

                                          • 18. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
                                            Mr. Chamberlain

                                            I don't think it's really the responsibility of the Flash Player and/or AIR runtime to implement physics (at a built-in level, at least).

                                            An ANE extension project (particularly like the one demonstrated in the Bullet vs. Away Physics video in the comments) would certainly be awesome, provided it's cross-platform on both mobile and desktop.

                                             

                                            Like others have mentioned, overall improvements on number-crunching performance in the FP and AIR runtime would be more desirable than simply focusing on just the area of physics, since it could benefit multiple aspects like faster for-loop iterations, collision detection, sound generation / effect-processor, file reading/writing/parsing, AND physics, etc.

                                             

                                            It would be interesting to see other posts/questions from Adobe like this towards some of the other popular voted features that the community requested in the uplist page.

                                            Personally I would like to see how much interest there is for a better Audio API (for handling DSPs, sound effect processing, MIDI I/O handling), again this could be a crossplatform ANE. But I won't wander off on a different topic too much here, just thought I'd mention it!

                                             

                                            Thanks for listening to your community, Adobe!

                                            • 19. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
                                              rafael_lima_30

                                              Not why advanced physics with NVIDIA PhysX support like on Adobe Director 12?

                                              For Desktop and Mobile: Adobe Director

                                              • 20. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
                                                shawnb81 Level 1

                                                I'm all for the addition of a native physics system, based on Box2D, that gives us native speed.

                                                 

                                                But, I'd also like to suggest that you make sure that you are committed to polishing and improving the new API's, and not leave them stranded at v 1.0.

                                                 

                                                For example, GameInput API is rife with bugs, and there seems to be no interest or pro-activeness on the part of Adobe to fix them. Zeh Fernando has put in a ton of work in standardizing the GameInput API, and he has been quite vocal about the issues, and as far as I know, no one from Adobe seems to care at all.

                                                 

                                                Here's a link to his gitHub repo, where he lists current issues with the API:
                                                zeh/key-action-binder · GitHub

                                                know that Flash's GameInput API is still severely ridden with bugs. You may run into some of them. Here's some more information.

                                                 

                                                In addition to those, I have run into a major bug on nVidia Shield, creating huge lag in inputs. The bug is nearly 12mths old, and is very severe:
                                                Bug#3673122 - Shield controller massive lag

                                                 

                                                I'd love to see the AIR team being much more pro-active about bug fixing. It seems to be like pulling teeth sometimes to actually get something fixed. I would think that the team, after putting in a big effort to implement GameInput in the first place, would be extremely pro-active in seeking out feedback and fixing the bugs in the first 3-6mths since release, to harden the API, but instead no one seems to care, and the onus is all on us to "file a bug report and vote", which seems code for "might get fixed, one day, maybe"

                                                 

                                                We love AIR so much because of it's consistency, but new API's need to be as consistent as old ones, and need constant iteration and improvement as well. I know it's flashier to add a new bullet point to the marketing check list, but consistency and reliability are much more important in this chaotic and fragmented landscape.

                                                 

                                                /2 cents

                                                • 21. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
                                                  _arieln_

                                                  I think the initiative is good!, we ended doing our own tiny physics lib for Flare3D because we couldn't find any solution that was suitable for our needs (Flare3D Collision detection and Physics simulation library. - YouTube) , it is super fast for some tasks, but it lacks of some mayor features already available in commercial or free libraries like Nvidia PhysX or Bullet.

                                                   

                                                  The only 3d physics lib available right now is the Away3D port of Bullet, which is good, but slow, and not suitable for mobile at all.

                                                  There were other libs like JigLib (discontinued?), or Oimo which is very fast but too simple.

                                                  There are options for 2D like Box2D or Nape, but not much for 3D.

                                                   

                                                  I don't think building an ANE is a good idea, Flash/AIR is not only desktop or mobile, is a cross platform solution and should remain that way.

                                                   

                                                  Some more thoughts....

                                                   

                                                  Building the collision detection tools only with native speed, could be good in the way we would have freedom to implement those as a building blocks, but physics is not only about collision detection...in fact...that's the easy part problems comes when integrating solvers, caching contact points, balancing the beast, tuning and hacking it to make it work....so having a single algorithm to detect collisions, its also limiting in sort of lots of different ways.

                                                   

                                                  So, my conclusion is, having a well integrated 3D lib, native speed, full feature set, integrated with the runtime and ready to use, could be the way to go.

                                                  • 22. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
                                                    Mark.fromOP Level 2

                                                    Would love to see a native physics engine that runs smooth on mobile, but also like the idea that others suggested of supporting a third party existing engine.

                                                    • 23. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
                                                      moccamaximum Level 5

                                                      With some of the AAA-Gameengines going Free-to_use (Cryengine, Unreal 4) or migrating to a renting model. I get the feeling Adobe is a little LTTP.

                                                       

                                                      The moment Unity adopts a similar pricing model, Flash will not only be the most expensive but also the most "underpowered" Gameengine to integrate physics.

                                                       

                                                      No thanks, bring back some really useful stuff (like AS2 support ) in CC++ (or whatever it mayb called) and leave the "serious" gaming stuff to adults.

                                                      • 24. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
                                                        ccaleb

                                                        Hi Chris,

                                                         

                                                        Here are my thoughts:

                                                         

                                                        1. I'd like to see 2D physics integrated into the Flash & AIR runtimes if it would provide significantly faster performance than using a 3rd party library.

                                                        2. My preference would be an implementation of Box2D. I know Nape is an awesome physics engine but I'd rather Flash natively supported Box2D because of its popularity across other languages.

                                                        3. I'd only really be interested in physics being integrated into the runtime if it were to be properly maintained. For example, if there are updates to Box2D then I'd expect to see the updates to the ActionScript API also.

                                                        4. I would probably prefer to see physics integrated within the runtime rather than a separate ANE.

                                                        5. I use AIR primarily these days and target mobile. However, it's important that the physics engine is available across both Flash Player and AIR.

                                                        6. Some features that I'd really want to see over and above the absolute basic 2D physics engine stuff:

                                                         

                                                        i. Ghost Vertices via b2ChainShape. (http://www.iforce2d.net/b2dtut/ghost-vertices)

                                                          ii. Collision Filtering via categories and bit masks. (http://www.iforce2d.net/b2dtut/collision-filtering)

                                                          iii. One-way walls.

                                                          iv. Sensors (http://www.iforce2d.net/b2dtut/sensors)

                                                          v. Joints - including revolute, distance, line, weld, pulley, friction, gear etc


                                                        Thanks.

                                                        • 25. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
                                                          adampasz

                                                          Not a huge priority for me. Only a small subset of games/apps. need a full-blown physics engine.  I would prefer to see more effort put into polishing existing APIs, fixing bugs, and improving mobile device integration (iOS mute button, native dialogs, SMS, etc.).

                                                          • 26. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
                                                            makc3d Level 1

                                                            I am sure you know that Apple went for built-in 2D engine by now: http://www.bytearray.org/?p=5314

                                                            • 27. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
                                                              dmennenoh Level 3

                                                              I would vote 2D and to have an implementation of Nape personally. I've used both B2D and Nape and find Nape much easier to use - plus it's loads faster than B2D.

                                                              • 28. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
                                                                Euklide Level 1
                                                                • When talking about physics, are you interested in a 2D or 3D physics engine?

                                                                3D physics only.

                                                                 

                                                                • Are you looking for solutions for desktop or mobile?

                                                                Currently, desktop.

                                                                • 29. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
                                                                  Gary Paluk

                                                                  Hi Chris,

                                                                   

                                                                  I see little point to native physics as an integrated library. Bullet Physics is already available as both an ANE and a compiled SWC, in fact, I just integrated Bullet with Zest3D and it was able to be compiled with Crossbridge. Whilst the performance can be slightly better, this would cause a fixed API and physics engines are very much a decision that is granularly based on the level of accuracy that you need and the dimensionality of the physics world-space. A better option might be to expose a hardware physics API that allows access to the PhysX GPU along with a fallback.

                                                                   

                                                                  Probably important to note that those aren't too great either, the overhead talking to the FlasCC compiled SWC actually slows things down so the GPU case is definitely a better option, Zest3D has physics integrations that performs more like this on mobile and running in pure AS3:


                                                                   

                                                                  Personally I think that, at this time, there is much more win factor from spending the development time on any of the following:

                                                                   

                                                                  • Direct OpenGL|ES2 context access with GLSL shaders
                                                                  • Crossbridge update (This is essential to the future of FlashPlayer IMHO)
                                                                  • PhysX GPU API
                                                                  • AS4 and/or compiler updates @see Haxe performance
                                                                  • AMD Mantle/MTL support (hidden from developer or profile parameter)

                                                                   

                                                                  Regards

                                                                   

                                                                  Gary Paluk

                                                                  http://www.plugin.io

                                                                  • 30. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
                                                                    esDotDev

                                                                    I'd disagree, if you look at all the main alternatives to AIR, they all have baked in Physics support: Corona, Unity, Swift etc, if it's good for them why not for AIR?

                                                                     

                                                                    If Adobe really want to make this great though, they need to give us tooling support in Flash Pro, then you'd have something on the level of Unity ease of use, which is pretty damned great.

                                                                    • 31. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
                                                                      Gary Paluk Level 1

                                                                      One of the greatest things about Flash/Air is that it doesn't try to lock you into a specific engine like your aforementioned tools. Air is basically a runtime packager and not a game engine solution so third party libraries exist such as Starling, FeathersUI, Away3D, Zest3D, Flare3D, Genome2D etc. All of these platforms have different implementations and that should also be the case for physics solutions. For example, I might just need a fast approximated physics engine or maybe I need a more rigerous RK4 modelled system. Engines like Unity have a single solution which make it impractical for so many other tasks but exposing the PhysX API is generalized, similar to the generalized GPU graphics API.

                                                                       

                                                                      Next up is being locked into the development environment, what a huge fail that would be. You could say goodbye to all AAA game companies ever wanting to touch Flash again. The workflow of such companies simply wouldn't correlate to having to drag and drop assets in Flash Pro, it would be suicide. Exporting assets from real-world 3D asset production tooling such as 3D Studio Max, Maya or even Blender is preferable and these tools can be used for the creation of scenes. The support offered by the leading libraries already have the capability and tooling that you are asking to be locked into Flash Pro.

                                                                       

                                                                      These engine systems are still evolving and that takes time, I wish it were faster and the road to a great production workflow for my own engine could be met more quickly, but locking down solutions is IMHO probably one of the worst ways to destroy the great platform flexibility of the Flash and Air products.

                                                                      • 32. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
                                                                        esDotDev Level 1

                                                                        You wouldn't be locked into the dev env, there would still be an API you could code against. Adding tooling support would just be an easy win, a case of building on your strengths. I'm envisioning the ability to use flash pro to basically make "prefabs" out of Movieclips, and export with a SWC. It would be hot.

                                                                         

                                                                        As for the "greatest" things about AIR go, I guess we differ there. My top features of AIR is not openness, it's consistency, reliability and a robust hardened API. Coupled with a great tooling support for building 2d UI and assets. A native physics lib reinforces all of those strengths, and also eliminates a major glaring weakness.

                                                                        • 33. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
                                                                          Gary Paluk Level 1

                                                                          I think the main issue wasn't really addressed in your reply. What if I want to use the accuracy of RK4 for one of my driving games, but a very fast solution for my million particles with gravity and plane collision. Would your API have support for rigid bodies, soft bodies or both and then what about fluid dynamics? Cloth simulation? Hair? Voronoi calculations? Would it be 2 separate APIs, one for 3D and one for 2D? My point was addressed by my mention of granularity in the original post. It would be cool to get your ideas about the practical implementation to the vast array of considerations but giving access to the PPU would allow developers to create plenty of their own solutions, similarly to the way that they have built their own 2D and 3D engines.

                                                                          • 34. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
                                                                            zwetan_uk Level 1

                                                                            "Would your API have support for rigid bodies, soft bodies or both and then what about fluid dynamics? Cloth simulation? Hair? Voronoi calculations?"

                                                                            humm to want everything you may obtain nothing ...

                                                                             

                                                                            adding a physic engine ok great , but you have to keep your feature list close to the essential

                                                                             

                                                                            first and foremost, to have too much 3rd party libraries can be a weakness

                                                                            having only 1 starling library is good, if you had 2 or 3 competing whith each other it would not really go anywhere

                                                                            or at least the general development would be much much slower

                                                                             

                                                                            look what happened to the 3D libraries for the last few years ... I mean before you had somethign like Stage3D,

                                                                            it really serve no one to have different people spliting forces doing about the same thing in different environments.


                                                                            In fact, look at what Adobe did with Stage3D, they provide the raw native engine which can be evolved toward more specific 3D engines, you should expect the same for a physics engine; eg. something native, raw and very basic but that bring the speed to implementation of physics engine on top

                                                                             

                                                                            asking for stuff like cloth simulation is a bit ridiculous IMHO

                                                                            • 35. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
                                                                              esDotDev Level 1

                                                                              Personally I'm referring to a 2d physics engine. Most games that come out of Flash are 2d are they not? I'd like to see some numbers on that, but my guess is about 90%+ is 2d.

                                                                               

                                                                              In general, it's really hard for Flash to compete with Unity in terms of 3d when you look at the authoring environments and (especially) Unity Asset Store. It still has many advantages when it comes to 2d though, most of which are related to the asset workflow in Flash Pro.

                                                                              • 36. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
                                                                                chris.campbell Adobe Employee

                                                                                Thanks for the feedback so far.  At this point, we're going to focus on the swc/crossbridge/ane approach and see if we can help make these scenarios (and existing solutions) as performant as possible.  A number of people brought up the point that we have, at times, added features and then seemingly stopped development on them (I'm looking at you gameinput...)  We believe this is a fair criticism and something we want to avoid if possible.  We'll also go back to these features, like the items raised by shawnb81, and see if we can fix some of the critical long standing issues.

                                                                                • 37. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
                                                                                  Gary Paluk Level 1

                                                                                  Hi Chris, don't those solutions already exist? You see an ANE and SWC solution presented in the video above. Isn't Away Physics, that you fund, the same as that crossbridge solution already? A point that I want to raise however is that the geometry buffer of an engine may be interleaved, so, my point is to raise the issue of how to access that data and provide it to the pointer system of the CModule. I suggest being able to describe the vertex data, along with a stride offset thus making it possible to use none interleaved and interleaved buffers.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  I'm trying to understand if it is the full engine (such as Bullet) that you want to provide, or faster mathematical methods that are useful when dealing with physics systems? Such as ray calculations, point<->point, line<->point, line<->line, tri<->point, tri<->line, tri<->tri collision checks etc?

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Regards

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Gary

                                                                                  • 38. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
                                                                                    makc3d Level 1

                                                                                    @Gary he says "help make these scenarios (and existing solutions) as performant as possible". I.e. improve those existing ANEs/SWCs

                                                                                    • 39. Re: The case for integrated, native physics in the Flash Runtime
                                                                                      Gary Paluk Level 1

                                                                                      Yeh, I'm not sure where they think that they will get the performance from unless Adobe commit to fixing the errors with crossbridge including issues with pthreads. I really hope this means that Abobe will recommit to the crossbridge compilers. What do you say Chris?

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