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80. Re: Preview Button!!!!
Lidenbrook Apr 29, 2014 6:25 AM (in response to Carlos (Photoshopeando))Well .....
I just restore the PC to point before installing ACR 8.4 update (can´t go further back in time...), so I have ACR 8.3 with CC Bridge (6.0 ......) and photosop CC (14.0 x 64 ) and I have not managed to reproduce the problem with RAW Pentax K5 IIs .
As I said earlier, the problem occurred with earlier versions of ACR to 8.3 and CS 6.... specifically remember having checked with the 8.0 .
I also remember having checked with a D 7100 RAW in one of the courses I usually teach (yes, I also give classes in photography , especially night photography and image processing .... heh heh ... But it is not that I dedicate this, but call me to impart courses at certain photographic entities , as it happen in the case with conferences at Congress Photo Pentax ... )
It is very likely that support for new cameras have made changes to the post versions 8.0 for viewing RAW of such cameras..... The truth is , I can not reproduce the problem with ACR 8.3 in CC ..... And believe me when I say that the problem was very noticeable in CS 6 with ACR 8.0 ....
In any case , it seems that the problem is solved , since the activation / deactivation of the preview does not produce any changes in the image (wth 0 in "Amount" and defaults for all other settings...).
I left wondering what is happening with the values that already have the RAW processed in those versions of ACR and imported into this new version 8.4 .... But since I do not observe overfocusing RAW processed in those above, it seems that the problem was rather representation of the image - display - with the preview setting off to a real problem of data conversion to apply sharpening ....
In any case , the issue appears to be resolved , so , unless those versions of ACR and CS 6 is used ( in which case you should check for the particular camera in question ) , it is not necessary to give more around the bush .
So, the new display enhancements introduced by the latest version of ACR are equally applicable to this type of sensor , which generalizes the advantage ...... and my concern vanishes .....
And I am sure that soon we will have even more improvements and some really interesting .....
Thanks again to everyone for your cooperation and kind regards
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81. Re: Preview Button!!!!
Hudechrome Apr 29, 2014 9:55 AM (in response to Carlos (Photoshopeando))Good point about trying it in LR. I'll check there as well.
So far as the new setup is concerned, it turns out that, if your Before is actually Camera Raw Defaults (I almost typed "Defects!), then the Before/After is grayed out. So now, if you make any adjustment starting from CRD, using Before/After, or Ctrl-Z or CRD inside Basic, one gets the same result, and because I start with Sharpening first (unless it's done in DxO), the new system is moot. If I have to make a big shift in Exposure first, then I use Ctrl-P, go to Sharpening and proceed from there with B/A, but Ctrl-Z also works. It gets fussier if I want to separate Noise and Sharpening and I haven't figured out any aspect of using B/A to implement it's use in the fashion intended, probably because I don't know the fashion. It's hunt & Peck, try this try that, and given the stuff with which I have to deal (Web Startup, clients and bailing out of everything to go shoot my stuff) this new process is taking a pretty low priority. If LR is the better place to do this, then there is where I should put my efforts to master the learning curve.
One confession: the D7100 is better served staying out of DxO as much as possible, because their dng does not carry over the Nikon Calibration options. Camera Cal simply says "Embedded" and fortunately, is comparable to Adobe Standard, which is my default for the 7100. This camera needs little in the way of noise control so long as one stays at ISO 800 or less. So I am training myself to mimic the amount of lens correction to match the DxO algorithm (didn't I just say I have stuff to do?) as a starting point, which for ACR Sharpening means staying below 1Px Radius and running the Detail slider above 90. Then the Amount tops out at or below 25. Their other tweaks have merit but the only other tweak of theirs I tend to use is Micro Contrast. There is a tweak in PS that is somewhat similar but not exactly.
So, for the moment, there is where it stands.
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82. Re: Preview Button!!!!
Hudechrome Apr 29, 2014 9:57 AM (in response to Lidenbrook)Ok, I'll not do the check (at least not now) in LR. Thanks for posting.
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83. Re: Preview Button!!!!
editor_vince May 1, 2014 10:36 AM (in response to max.wendt)Dear Adobe,
Please add the preview button back. Keep whatever other functionality you want, but the preview button was just so easy, it was clearly a poor decision to remove it. We all want it back.
Best Regards,
Vince
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84. Re: Preview Button!!!!
Hanahoe May 5, 2014 7:57 AM (in response to max.wendt)Max,
Your message #70 of 28 April was very helpful to this discussion. I am now content to acknowledge that the new preview system with three buttons in ACR 8.4 has significant advantages over the single button preview system found in earlier versions of ACR. However, that is not to say that the new system might not be further improved by the addition of a fourth button to show the Before/After changes introduced by each of the Panels.
All best wishes
Thom.
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85. Re: Preview Button!!!!
komolova-74 May 5, 2014 8:25 AM (in response to Hanahoe)Четвертая кнопка не помешает, это точно!
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86. Re: Preview Button!!!!
Hudechrome May 5, 2014 9:11 AM (in response to Hanahoe)I've been using the new system for some time now, and frankly, the usefulness to my work is minimal, and still intrusive at certain points, those being during a session in ACR with no reason to use this feature as I usually simply compare to the default values when pushing the sliders around. That is, until I do need to step back more than one step using Ctrl-Z. But by then, I have not established the proper Before and soon I am in trouble.
I also notice that in most cases, you do not need to set Before. Simply move to another panel, make a change then hit the Before/After. The caveat is you can only do that once!
So, I re-iterate my position on restoring the individual panel Before/After as an additional selection.
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87. Re: Preview Button!!!!
ycardozo May 17, 2014 12:57 PM (in response to Michelle Qi)I have 8.4.1. Nothing is changed. So say I have a dark area that needs to be lightened in the shadows. Say that area is noisy. Now when I go to the sharpen panel and hit 'p' or before, it reverts to the dark version, where I can't see crap. Before, each panel's 'before' only reverted to what you had done in that panel. In other words, the exposure correction I had made in basic was retained so I could see if the noise correction was enough. Now you can't see anything. I've checked to see if there is a further update and there is not.
I am so very tired of this incredibly expensive program adding updates that screw us up totally. It's just a repeat of the whole regeneration issue which took years to resolve.
Exactly what is now being done about this. At the moment, RAW is virtually useless for me in many crucial circumstances.
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88. Re: Preview Button!!!!
ycardozo May 17, 2014 1:41 PM (in response to ycardozo)Someone suggested adding a fourth control that will allow us to do what we had done before...backtrack changes in an individual panel. I've been playing with ctrl-Z in individual panels and this seems to let me do what I could do with a single click before...see just the change I've made in that panel. Am I getting this right? It's a pain but a work-around that is okay for me. Another question...I seem to not be able to find a way to get emails to replies in this discussion. I thought there was something on the left but now can't find it. SIGH.
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89. Re: Preview Button!!!!
stevestrike1 May 19, 2014 10:26 PM (in response to stlouiscrash09)So has anyone had any positive answers from Adobe about the reinstatement of the ACR filter preview button?
This was one of the most valuable and efficient tools ever in Photoshop. I can't believe it is gone. Sure there are clumsy dumb work arounds but not efficient.
PLEASE reinstate this button ASAP Adobe!!
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90. Re: Preview Button!!!!
stevestrike1 May 19, 2014 10:56 PM (in response to stevestrike1)Ok seems I jumped the gun here before finding all the facts. There is a preference option on the new split screen panels. If you hold down the mouse button on the first spilt screen options button a popup will appear. Select "Preview preferences".
Un-tick all the options except the last one named "Pane labels" Click ok and you will find the centre split pane button will now toggle as a before/after as per the previous preview button
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91. Re: Preview Button!!!!
pcmanpcman May 20, 2014 4:16 AM (in response to stevestrike1)it doesn't work for each tab settings
example:
if you add +3 exposure from the first tab
and then go to fx and add vignette and stay in the fx tab
the old previous button would on/off the vignette without changing the exposure
now the P button will restore everything in 0
Terrible move from adobe, as i said above: If they want ACR look like Lightroom, then put ON/OFF switch in each tab,
This workflow is just confusing.
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92. Re: Preview Button!!!!
Hudechrome May 20, 2014 6:58 AM (in response to stevestrike1)Sorry, does nothing for my work flow. If I set Basics, then move to Detail clicking the center button still does what it did in the default position; switch to the starting point of the edit, that is, the Camera RAW defaults.
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93. Re: Preview Button!!!!
ycardozo May 20, 2014 7:16 AM (in response to Hudechrome)Sorry Steve but your suggestion doesn't work for individual panes. The only thing I've found that lets you step back in individual panes is CTL-Z I don't hold any hope that Adobe will listen. Their reasoning is 'my way or the highway.' They don't really give a crap what the rest of us think or the fact that this has screwed up our workflow. I could care less about whether sharpening and whatever is separated. What I want is a fast, seamless workflow
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94. Re: Preview Button!!!!
station_two May 20, 2014 8:47 AM (in response to ycardozo)ycardozo wrote:
…I don't hold any hope that Adobe will listen. Their reasoning is 'my way or the highway.' They don't really give a crap what the rest of us think or the fact that this has screwed up our workflow…
Why should they? Now that a bunch of you are subscribed, what iks their incentive to listen? Just asking…
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95. Re: Preview Button!!!!
Hudechrome May 20, 2014 10:10 AM (in response to station_two)DXO Pro.
Just sayin'!
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96. Re: Preview Button!!!!
station_two May 20, 2014 11:09 AM (in response to Hudechrome)Sorry, Larry. I'll google DXO Pro later; I don't know much about it.
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97. Re: Preview Button!!!!
Hudechrome May 20, 2014 11:21 AM (in response to station_two)https://www.google.com/#q=dxo+optics+pro
The first link takes you to their lens/camera test rating site, the second to the editing software site.
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98. Re: Preview Button!!!!
station_two May 20, 2014 11:29 AM (in response to Hudechrome)Thanks, Larry.
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99. Re: Preview Button!!!!
Hanahoe May 20, 2014 11:40 AM (in response to station_two)Notwithstanding Jeff Schewe's comments, as far as I can see there is no commercial reason to believe that the company would ignore the considered and reasoned views of its customers and I would hope that the opinions expressed in this Forum would be acccommodated in the next iteration of ACR. Max Wendt was clearly trying to be helpful in his message #70 of 28 April and as he pointed out, the new system does have advantages compared to the Preview Button. However, those advantages are in addition to the function provided by the Preview Button. I struggle to see advantages of the new Before/After Buttons compared independently and separately to the erstwhile Preview Button. But in my view, integration of the new Before/After systen with a further facility to review the image developments made within each Panel would provide a very powerful review facilty and ensure that ACR retains its position as market leader in raw image development; and satisfy everybody!
Thom.
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100. Re: Preview Button!!!!
Hudechrome May 20, 2014 2:23 PM (in response to Hanahoe)Well said. Thanks for your contribution, Hanahoe!
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101. Re: Preview Button!!!!
station_two May 20, 2014 11:07 PM (in response to Hanahoe)Hanahoe wrote:
Notwithstanding Jeff Schewe's comments…
Which comments? Where?
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102. Re: Preview Button!!!!
Hanahoe May 21, 2014 12:37 AM (in response to station_two)station_two wrote:
Which comments? Where?
Within this thread (Re: Preview Button!!!), Jeff Schewe contributed a significant number of messages, starting with message #5 through to message #68.
Thom.
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103. Re: Preview Button!!!!
station_two May 21, 2014 12:56 AM (in response to Hanahoe)And you actually believe that any of those comments by Mr. Schewe represent the view that, as you imply, he would think that there are "commercial reason[s] to believe that the company would ignore the considered and reasoned views of its customers"?
That's the part of your post that startled me. Jeff Schewe has always had remarkable faith in Adobe and expresses himself very confident in the future success of ADobe's policies.
Hanohoe wrote:
Notwithstanding Jeff Schewe's comments, as far as I can see there is no commercial reason to believe that the company would ignore the considered and reasoned views of its customers
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104. Re: Preview Button!!!!
Lidenbrook May 21, 2014 3:19 AM (in response to stlouiscrash09)I get the impression that you do not read too much .... You have to read the whole topic before saying certain things about what others have said.
I think the answers 24, 26 , 27, 34 and 60 of Jeff Schewe , are sufficiently explicit.
So do not give him more around the bush , the preview button panel is gone and things are as they are .....
If the Adobe engineers have clearly prefer this way of doing things , we can do little about it.
But yeah, I feel good that users protest , if only that, the action of kicking .
I doubt that's going to result in that Adobe would think a little better and back in his obstinacy that ACR should remain as it is, but good is that users do let them know that we do not agree, however much they think them, and only them, are those who know how to do things and others protested because we simply have no idea and do bad things.
Perhaps by insisting they would just think a little better ......
So you know, from now on , there will be more and better to use Ctrl Z. ..... Nor is so serious ....I beg your pardon my poor English
Regards -
105. Re: Preview Button!!!!
ycardozo May 21, 2014 9:06 AM (in response to Lidenbrook)I got this reply from someone I know who works at Adobe. He said:
"I did find this post which discusses some thinking on the change and a way to get per panel previews, not just the 'all or nothing' that you explain below.
http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2014/04/the-new-preview-feature-in-camera-raw.html
I do believe the team is currently investigating more changes as well; I don't think the hue and cry is falling on deaf ears."
I tried the suggestion and it does work but, honestly, it is complicated. So now, instead of simply hitting the preview box to toggle back and forth whereever you are, you need to remember to do alt/p to set the original, then do the work, then hit p to see the 'before.' Then in the next panel, again, you need to do alt/p to save what you did in that panel, then p will take you back and forth.
On the other hand ctl-z does all of this w/o the dance.
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106. Re: Preview Button!!!!
Hudechrome May 21, 2014 10:13 AM (in response to ycardozo)That's pretty much what I found. You have to be careful in using the setup toggles in that you don't inadvertently hit the copy current settings while intending to use the before/after. If you are trying to run a process with some degree of tractability, you then are totally screwed. Especially if you don't realize what happened, precisely.
Which all well and good...if your interest is software, or maybe generating a better UI. But as a user wanting consistent, specific results, the single toggle/panel is the gold standard while allowing the more complex version to be implemented concurrently. That is, at any time in the procedure, you can always investigate possibilities before committing to placing it in the unfolding operation.
BTW, I see that misspelled words are now underlined as we type.
Welcome to the 21st Century, Jive. Only 14 years late!
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107. Re: Preview Button!!!!
ycardozo May 21, 2014 10:23 AM (in response to Hudechrome)I sent basically this same info to my contact at Adobe. Not that I think it will make much difference. They seem to thing having to make multiple keystrokes and memorize what you have done is a simpler method. I still don't get what we receive in turn...beyond a split before after screen. And that, for me, simply isn't worth the extra hassle.
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108. Re: Preview Button!!!!
Hudechrome May 21, 2014 10:33 AM (in response to ycardozo)They probably shrugged it off as multi-tasking, which, BTW, has been discredited as a human capability.
We are single-threaded!
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109. Re: Preview Button!!!!
max.wendt Jun 3, 2014 1:52 PM (in response to Hudechrome)Hi, all!
Please check out the ACR release candidate, available today:
Adobe Photoshop Camera Raw 8.5 CC Release Candidate | digital camera raw file support - Adobe Labs
From the release notes:
- Added new Per-Panel Preview default toggle
- If the current panel's settings are not the ACR defaults, clicking the new Per-panel Toggle Button will reset the panel to the ACR defaults.
- Clicking the button again will restore the previous settings.
- This is a standalone feature, separate from the new Preview controls
- The changes are applied to the main view; if you have both the Before and After panes visible, changes will appear in the After pane.
- Added new Per-Panel Preview default toggle
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110. Re: Preview Button!!!!
Carlos (Photoshopeando) Jun 3, 2014 3:09 PM (in response to max.wendt)Thanks for the per-panel preview default. It makes much more sense now, IMHO.
But what has really surprised me is the new graduated/radial filter brush - AMAZING!! I can't wait to see it in LR 5.5 (because it WILL be in LR 5.5, I hope!!).
THANKS again for your great work.
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111. Re: Preview Button!!!!
Hudechrome Jun 3, 2014 3:43 PM (in response to max.wendt)Sigh!
Thank you, thank you Max! I did a quick check after the D/L and it works fine.
I hope this takes the swagger out of a certain party we all know and love!
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112. Re: Preview Button!!!!
max.wendt Jun 3, 2014 3:57 PM (in response to Hudechrome)There are some key differences between the new per-panel defaults toggle and the old Preview checkbox:
- The new per-panel defaults toggle actually changes your settings: you see your sliders move to reflect the actual settings that are applied.
- Put another way, this isn't really a "Preview" like before: your sliders show you the current values used to render the image... what you see is what you get.
- Because of this, there is no longer the potential for confusion from clicking Done or Open with old Preview checkbox turned off, resulting in an image that didn't look like what you were seeing in ACR.
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113. Re: Preview Button!!!!
Jeff Schewe Jun 3, 2014 3:59 PM (in response to Hudechrome)Hudechrome wrote:
I hope this takes the swagger out of a certain party we all know and love!
Nope...because what you don't know is that behind the scenes, I really DID try to get the ACR engineers to reconsider the per panel preview and was told it wouldn't happen. But, to Max's credit, he figured out a way to show a default toggle and did the work to put it in. Note, it's NOT the same as the old behavior but seems to address the major points the users here on this thread were clamoring for. So, you can thank Max for his hard work...
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114. Re: Preview Button!!!!
Hudechrome Jun 3, 2014 5:02 PM (in response to Jeff Schewe)Yep! I actually didn't think it would change your behavior.
What you say you did behind the scenes matters not at all so far as your swagger when appearing on these pages.
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115. Re: Preview Button!!!!
Hudechrome Jun 3, 2014 5:08 PM (in response to max.wendt)It gave me what I was looking for, at any rate.
But! I opened PS opened a .psd, hit Ctr-P and got the message "Photoshop has Stopped Working...
From Events:
Faulting application name: Photoshop.exe, version: 14.2.1.570, time stamp: 0x52f4a9f2
Faulting module name: ntdll.dll, version: 6.1.7601.18247, time stamp: 0x521eaf24
Exception code: 0xc0000374
Fault offset: 0x00000000000c4102
Faulting process id: 0x183c
Faulting application start time: 0x01cf7f7eb0aaab60
Faulting application path: C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Photoshop CC (64 Bit)\Photoshop.exe
Faulting module path: C:\Windows\SYSTEM32\ntdll.dll
Report Id: 2ec3a9be-eb76-11e3-9613-002618e82977
I don't think it's the new update, but because this is all that changed in my system, and the update is RC, I thought to post it here.
I did a restore point, but no to avail.
I'll try Backup Restore and see what happens.
Win 7 64 bit.
Again, thanks Max.
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116. Re: Preview Button!!!!
Hanahoe Jun 4, 2014 12:43 AM (in response to max.wendt)Max,
My sincere thanks for your first class response. You have done a super job which delivers all that was required and more. It is very gratefully received and much appreciated. Thanks again.
All best wishes
Thom.
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117. Re: Preview Button!!!!
ycardozo Jun 4, 2014 5:25 AM (in response to max.wendt)A couple of questions...is this release of 8.5 a beta version? And what I've read here confuses me. It sounds like the toggle takes you back to default in individual panes but that was the problem before. What is needed is a way to step back only what you did in that pane. I'm on my phone here because I don't have internet access and thus can't download the update to try it for myself
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118. Re: Preview Button!!!!
Hudechrome Jun 4, 2014 5:36 AM (in response to ycardozo)It's a fourth button that restores to defaults for the individual pane only. If you want to step between successive adjustments in that pane, Ctrl-Z is available.
I'm up early trying to battle the PSCC crash upon going to print! I really need to be able to step back to 8.4. I downloaded it but it refuses to install. Unless I can do that, I cannot be sure 8.5 isn't to blame, despite the notion that ACR isn't running PSCC.
Or is it?
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119. Re: Preview Button!!!!
Carlos (Photoshopeando) Jun 4, 2014 5:57 AM (in response to Hudechrome)I don't know if acr 8.5 is to blame for the print issue (sounds weird since, as you say, ACR is not running PSCC, but who knows). But I wanted to remind that since the latest CC update, we can also download an older version like CS6 from the CC application. Of course it might be overkill to download CS6 just for printing out something, but if this is an urgent matter and you are desperate to find a solution, you might want to give it a try as a last resort (if new CC features are used in the document, save a flattened copy first just in case). Again, you probably knew that, but... just in case.
---
As for Jeff's swagger... come on people, don't be mean - let's be honest, he's earnt his right to swagger all he wants! Even if I did not agree with some of the things he said, I still highly appreciate that Jeff Schewe himself takes time to share his thoughts and knowledge here. In fact, without his interest in discussing the issue, maybe the engineers wouldn't have looked so much into this issue.
So thanks to you too, Jeff. In fact, thanks everybody - because it's not the new checkbox that really makes me happy the most, but the feeling that there is sensible people listening to us at Adobe, the idea that, while not everybody will be satisfied always, still there's a dialogue, a chance to be heard. You know what, maybe it's not really Jeff who should be explaning himself, but other people that, on different web sites, were quick to state that the preview checkbox removal was a clear sign that Adobe doesn't give a damn about the users, blah blah blah (and then of course, one things leads to another and we're in for yet another "anti-cc model" speech).



