Pre-selected Mcafee = a true way to the heart of your users?

[Loque_k]

I often considered why most installers don't offer more things to be installed? I actually think that the money Adobe get from McAfee is too little and that really, they should pre-select a whole bunch of additional software that users _must_ want... especially those in a hurry with little time to de-select pre-selected non-essential additional software options that have a large impact on how my computer operates, these people need a lot of additional software, well, at least you could assume that by default when they are updating a browser plugin?

[johnfrian]

I feel a weird sense of pleasure inside my body whenever I finish updating something and I find more software on my computer than expected when the update has completed.. The best part is where I have to spend extra time uninstalling the extra software instead of just unticking the box during update.

...oh wait, that is not pleasurable at all, and that is not at all the best part!

Adobe, stop hiding the friggen MacAfee install box during flash player updates! This is starting to piss me off.

Respect for Adobe drops whenever I find macaffee on my computer after flashupdate, especially since I specifically look for the box to untick at every occation!

[pwillener]

As posted a million times before in this forum, if you use the offline installers, you don't get any bundled 3rd-part software:

• Flash Player for ActiveX (Internet Explorer)
• Flash Player Plug-in (All other browsers)
• Flash Player for Mac OS X

[Loque_k]

Thanks Pat,

It is great that the offline installers do not have bundled software with it, but I think the pre-selected tickbox affects users who normally do not even know the difference between an offline and online installer.

After making my first post I noticed there were a lot of related posts, and I should quickly ineject to say that this is not a criticism of this community or forum, what you guys do here to help users is amazing and very kind, so please don't think I am misguided.... My post is here to merely stick another hand up and say "hey that is not cool".

I don't think anyone is unable to de-select the checkbox, or spend time reading forums to discover there is an offline installer without additional software - it's just whether, at the time of updating the flashplayer, they have the presence of mind to remember that Adobe want lots of money from other people and must include software installers selected by default that have nothing to do with flashplayer... not at least some kind of security software (which, coincidently, is how a lot of malware disguises itself online).

It just isn't very nice, and as an ex-IT support engineer (now a developer), I know the types of users this effects and how it effects them... it is time consuming, problematic and sometimes stressful for them. The most frustrating for me, is how it reminds me that Adobe don't care about its users, they care about that $$, then the users... preselected by default = not cool, especially on browser plugin updates, for software that has nothing to do with it.

[pwillener]

I know what you mean; and believe me, nobody is happy about that pre-selected box.

However, nobody in this forum (including the Adobe engineers who visit this forum) can do anything about it; that decision is made on a management level that does not visit the forums.  And frankly I don't think they give a second's thought on what anyone thinks.  They have to maintain a developers team that does not generate any revenue.

The offline installer links, b.t.w., are not a complete secret; they can be found at http://helpx.adobe.com/flash-player/kb/installation-problems-flash-player-windows.html#main-pars_tex... and various other places.

Loque_k wrote:

I don't think anyone is unable to de-select the checkbox...

Actually there are situations (which I have never been able to reproduce, but I believe the users who posted the details) where an update is downloaded without giving the user a choice to include 3rd-party bundled software.  I think this may be a bug, but since I cannot reproduce it, it is difficult to report.

So all we can do is spread the word about the offline installers.  But I also agree that the average users wouldn't have any idea what an offline installer is...

[Loque_k]

I am not 100% sure on that, I am pretty sure Adobe has to maintain this forum and its public image... if every post on this forum was in uproar about trying to sneak additional software into users computers as they updated a plugin which is considered a standard across many platforms, there is chance they would address it as an issue. It is on the adobe.com domain, and is a user forum about the flashplayer installer, I am not sure exactly where else users would give feedback on the installer and anything they didn't like about it. Plus in the same vein, it's not hard to make that checkbox unchecked by default ;¬P

Pat Willener wrote:

And frankly I don't think they give a second's thought on what anyone thinks.  They have to maintain a developers team that does not generate any revenue.

If they need to include McAfee to support development of flashplayer then make that clear to users - I do not know how the flashplayer team is funded, but I would have suspected they originally planned on funding flash player with licensing (which it seems they do) and from sales of the development platform, I did look into it as it made me curious but MEH, be straight with your users, perhaps (I take the same issue with loyalty schemes that never mention to their users why they are getting 'free' stuff) :¬)

All this is my 2 cents (obv) and I guess I need to offset this post very quickly with some love for the people who help others here (Pat!) and flashplayer itself, it has helped a lot of people, so be cool and that! We love you flashplayer, we just want you to be as good as you really can be!

[pwillener]

There are indeed lots of free softwares that bundle their installers with 3rd-party programs (Java, CCleaner, DriverMax, ...) and all come with pre-checked checkboxes.  Some are even trickier to detect and deselect 3rd-party crapware, i.e. select

• Standard installation (recommended)
• Custom installation

where the 3rd-party stuff can only be seen and disabled when using the Custom installation.

And some software (Foxit Reader comes to mind) install spyware on users' computers that is almost impossible to remove.

Unless there are some laws against such practices, we just have to live with that fact, and be very, very careful when installing anything.

[Loque_k]

Not going to argue you with you Pat that other people also do it, I will argue that that doesn't make it okay and also, that this is a browser plugin that is pretty essential to getting around the internet (and has been for the past 10 years with at least video playback), unlike the applications you list.

Unless there are some laws against such practices, we just have to live with that fact, and be very, very careful when installing anything.

You know living in a world were anything goes unless there is an explicit law against it is a pretty sad world to be in. Wouldn't it be nice if people took some responsibility for the position they are in and change the world with simple gestures like not abusing a position of power (running a browser plugin which most people need to install), to make money (pre-selected McAfee install), that has a negative effect on its users experience (both installer and possibly unwanted software).

A simpler option, which literally no-one could object to, is to have the box de-selected by default - this is in-line with what we could expect; most people updating the flash plugin will probably not need or want McAfee. They could even be public about this decision and the reason they did it.

But I have no "tree hugging" world disillusion, my brand image of Adobe is already a bunch of greedy people running a company where a few nice clever people exist, but on the off chance, someone with some awareness, checks the Adobe.com forums, on the flash installer, they will see that their pre-selected checkbox isn't winning them any friends and can be causing difficulty and stress to some users (most of which wouldn't even know to post here).

And, when I come to implement video playback on my website, or consider technologies like flash, I will remember the pre-selected tick box. Just in the same way I remember Macromedia and their approach on accessibility/SEO with flash...

Again... I am not hating, just trying to be honest and helpful. For all I know Adobe could be on the ropes financially and that McAfee money could be keeping them in there... but I doubt it.