Dynamic Link from PPRo & AE does not update once file is rendered.

[jesmo71]

I posted this as a response in another thread, but it has gotten very little commentary, and I don't feel it is being addressed, so I'm going to post this as its own question. I appreciate any input, and would really like to hear from an Adobe team member.

I have 2 Mac Pro machines that have recently been updated to CS6(Production Premium). This occurs on both machines. And is not specific to any one item being changed. It occurs to any changes being made AFTER rendering into PPro.

If I link between PPro & AE comps/sequence, I can make changes in AE and it will update to PPro as long as it has not been rendered. However, if I render the sequence in PPro, and then go back to AE and make changes(and yes, I am saving it before returning to PPro), it does not unrender the PPro sequence, and will not update.  It remains rendered in the sequence as if nothing has changed. No matter what I do to the imported AE comp in PPro, it will not unrender. (short of adding an adjustment layer with an effect above it all in the sequence to force it to unrender - this is my workaround for the moment).

I've gone so far as to delete the linked comp out of PPro, and re-import the AE comp, and if I drop it on the same sequence it pops immediately back up as rendered.  My guess is it has something to do with the global cache.

This is not a legacy issue, as this project was created from scratch in CS6.

Here's the workflow

Create PPro Proj  -> import footage -> edit video -> save.

Create AE Project -> edit composition to desired effect/graphics etc... -> import or drag comp from AE to PPro -> Lay AE comp on video layer above base footage -> Go back to AE make any desired changes and Save -> return to PPro, and project is updated -> Render ALL in PPro ->  realize something needs to be adjusted in AE -> go to comp in AE, make adjustment & save -> return to PPro and find that it will not update/refresh/unrender.

I'm aware of how sequences are affected when they are not pre-rendered. However, I'm specifically talking about once the file is rendered there is an issue that did not exist before CS6. In CS5 & CS5.5 I could render in PPro, make changes in AE, and the rendered timeline would become unrendered, and show the updated information from AE without having to manually delete any render files. I've done it thousands of times, and until CS6 it was not an issue. Having to manually delete the rendered file from the sequence defeats the entire purpose of dynamic linking - You make a change in one program, and it updates to the other without manual input - That is the point of dynamic linking.

Is there a setting in the preferences that I can change to make this work again? How can this be addressed without manually deleting the rendered file each time?

TL;DR - PPro doesn't refresh changes from AE once it has been rendered in PPro without manually deleting the render.

[Jim_Simon]

Works for me in Windows.

[jesmo71]

Wow, thanks for the great insight!

[Jim_Simon]

You're welcome.

It's always my pleasure to help bring folks 'back into the light'. 

Actually, my point was more that it does work correctly in CS6.  What you're experiencing may be a local installation issue.  However, it's possible that the cause might be related to the OS, so I felt it relevant to mention that, as Macs do seem to throw up more errors than Windows these days.

[jesmo71]

I see... I believe the word you were looking for was "back to the LITE".

It's not a local issue, because it can be duplicated on more than one machine. I can believe it's an issue that is occuring with OS X specifically, and if so, I'd just like Adobe to say "hey, we're aware... here's the fix, or we'll get it taken care of" at some point.

[lasvideo]

Ive used dynamic link ALOT on my 2008 Mac Pro running Lion. After I would make changes and save the AE linked project, the PP timeline would then update. Ive since moved to PC where I have not had any problems either. So it seems to be something unique to your system.

[jesmo71]

Yeah, but did you do it with CS6 on your Mac Pro?

It worked fine until CS6.  And, as I said, I can replicate it on multiple machines. I've replicated it on both of my Mac Pros. As a matter of fact, I called another editor, and asked him to try it out, and he gets the same results. Once it is rendered in the timeline, it won't unrender without manually removing the render files.

[lasvideo]

Yes, as a beta tester I have been using CS6 on my Mac (doing this function) for the last 8 months. No problems like you have experienced with it. FYI I ALWAYS  render AE linked projects on the PP timeline since  its  a good idea to insure playback at speed.

Are you highlighting the linked clip on the PP timeline and using Edit Original to access the AE project to make your changes? Are you saving your AE linked project before going back to PP?

[jesmo71]

Yes, I am saving the AE file as I go.

[needles27]

Jesmo, your machine isn't broken.

I'm on a Mac too and have experienced it.  It is a known issue, and I have been contacted by an Adobe engineer trying to track down the bug.  They are aware of it and are actively trying to fix it.

[jesmo71]

Thank you needles27. Seems like they could have saved us all some time and headache and just posted something saying "We're aware of it. Standby.".

[needles27]

jesmo71 wrote:

Thank you needles27. Seems like they could have saved us all some time and headache and just posted something saying "We're aware of it. Standby.".

Unfortunately, with a few exceptions, the engineers don't really post messages like that.  It took 20K views and 300 posts in the Serious Error thread before the engineers started to communicate.  To their credit, they participate in the forums on their own time, so getting any feedback here from Adobe is just a bonus at this point.

[Jim_Simon]

The engineers may not be aware of it.

I mean, it works for me on Windows, and it worked for lasvideo on Macs.  So this is not a consistently reproducible issue.

[needles27]

I have been contacted directly by an Adobe Engineer about this issue on Macs and tried some troubleshooting with him. For me, I wasn't able to reproduce it at that moment, and of course that makes it a challenge to track down a solution. I think for me it was happening only on projects that originated with CS 5.5, but not new ones created in 6.

[cashreve]

I am aware I am in the minority here, but we have been having this same problem with Dynamic Link on multiple machines at my work as well. I have found that it works sometimes if I drag the Dynamic Linked comp onto a different timeline, but it gives me the same rendering problem described by jesmo when I put it on the same track it originally linked to. We are on Mac Pros using CUDA graphics cards and the problem arises even with projects originating in CS6. I will try to take note of all circumstances the next time this happens and follow up to see if that helps the Adobe engineers.

[jesmo71]

Hey cashreve, you are not in the minority. Most of the people I know with Macs and CS6 are having this problem.

The easiest workaround is to simply add an adjustment layer and add an effect like Three Color Correction (you don't need to make any changes, so it won't really change anything on the layers below) above the AE video line. That will force it to unrender.

[lasvideo]

Interesting. I know lots of folks using CS6 on both Mac and PC and none of them are have this problem 

[jesmo71]

I can duplicate this on both of my machines, and I've contacted 2 other editors from local facilities, and they were able to replicate it as well. I haven't heard of anyone on PC having this issue. Only on Mac.

[JakeHuddleston]

Hello, can anyone verify that this is still an issue?  I am having the same problem, exactly as described.  I have the latest PPro updates, so it obviously isn't a bug that's been fixed yet.  Is everyone with this problem still using the adjustment layer workaround?  

[MarkWayner1398]

Hi, I read about this problem after I was experiencing it myself.  I was transitioning two clips that were nested in my Premiere sequence and applied an effect in After Effects using Dynamic Link.  After I completed the effect, the completed composition transferred to my source monitor in Premiere, but would not update when I placed the source into the program timeline.  I deleted the linked composition from the timeline, dragged the source clip into the timeline, and it still didn't apply the effect to my timeline!  I rendered full composition in After Effects, saved composition in After effects, saved my project in Premiere, opened and closed project, and still didn't get anything.   Eventually I just decided to add to render queue in After Effects and put it in my timeline the old fashioned way.

[jstrawn]

I don't have an installed seat of Pr + AE CS6 accessible at this time so I can't check it with those versions. I see no bug in CC 8.n though, so I tend to agree that it may be a bug specific to your local setup or some specific step we don't yet know about. In any case, I should clarify a couple of things to make sure we're all on the same page about how DL works with AE:

1. You're really just 'rendering' preview files to make playback a little better. You're not actually rendering anything from AE in PrPro to give you a standalone media file.

2. Due to the nature of item #1, there really isn't any architectural way you could actually break the Dynamic Link of any imported files by just building previews for them, because it's just referencing an additional cache file to improve playback.

3. If you make changes in AE to a rendered comp in Pr, then it will show red again in the sequence and you will need to re-render if you want that playback boost back. This is as designed.

4. If you want to truly render (aka flatten, or render and replace) an AEP in CS6, you need to export it as a standalone media file from AE and import that file into Pr.

5. It's possibly that DL itself is malfunctioning, in which case you may need to quit AE or Pr or both and maybe even re-import (via DL) the file agin.

6. It's good practice to browse to an AEP in the media browser, then import it from there using the Dynamic Link Import dialog. This is not required, but we've heard of cases where some import problems are avoided in this way. Also using the media browser to import in general is good because it previews folder dependent files in a better way.

[R Neil Haugen]

Thanks for the clear clarification. There's a LOT of confusion as to what "rendering" is actually doing. Being as it's used for both "making workable previews" and "creating a final output" a lot of folks think when they "render" a comp or timeline selection they're actually creating a complete final-out style section of their project. I've tried to steer comments into rendering *previews* and exporting *files* to help straighten out some misconceptions in other threads ... but my, people can hang onto a mental image!

Neil

[jstrawn]

Yes, I prefer the terms 'render' and 'export' too, and then there's 'render and replace' (currently audio only) and 'transcode' (a much requested feature) which adds to the confusion.

[jstrawn]

This isn't exactly on topic with his thread, but since the title mentioned 'After Effects' and 'render' I thought I should clarify that as of CC 2014.1 (8.1) you now truly CAN render and replace After Effects comps (and a lot of other media) right in PrPro to boost your performance and simplify your project. Right click on an AE comp in a sequence and choose "Render and Replace" (or Clip>Render and replace from the main menu). Once rendered, there is also a 'Restore Original' option to let you bring back the un-rendered AE comp unless you need to work in it some more in AE, etc. This was called out in our public notes for new features in 2014.1, but thought it was worth mentioning here in case people stumble across this thread while looking for info about that feature.

[R Neil Haugen]

Thanks. And useful info ... I'd missed this.

neil