1 2 Previous Next 61 Replies Latest reply: Dec 5, 2014 8:53 AM by sinious Go to original post RSS
      • 40. Re: GTX 970 and Premiere Pro
        sinious CommunityMVP

        DV2FOX ~ You should grab GPU-Z (google it, billion of links) and check GPU usage when you encode. When you don't use NVENC_encode you will see your GPU sit dormant around 0% and your CPU go nuts. Now choose NVENC_encode and watch. Is your CPU still pegging out? I find on my old i5-2500k (Sandy Bridge) w/ 16GB DDR3 rig that I no longer peg the CPU out at 100% but hover in the 80% range while only actually getting the GPU to 50%. One good thing to note is I maintain 80% CPU usage but can get the GPU up to 70% if I concurrently encode 2 videos:

         

        enc3nvencmaxwellDUAL.PNG

         

        So my problem is I'm nearing max RAM (I have other stuff open) and my CPU is my bottleneck. Of course, it's years old and the GTX 980 is a monster. Now I need to get an Intel Haswell LGA2011v3 hex-core with hyperthreading and quad channel DDR4 to put the bottleneck back on the GPU. That'd be a much more fair fight for "who's the bottleneck now??". That will probably cut my encoding time down to 20 seconds (or less, from 10 minutes!).

         

        So what CPU are you using? If it's actually older than mine then you're going to be much happier upgrading CPU/mobo/mem because you should see much more than a mere 23min to 9min reduction. That's a little better than double speed. I wonder why you're not getting better performance.

        • 41. Re: GTX 970 and Premiere Pro
          DV2FOX Community Member

          ASUS P8Z68-V PRO GEN3

          Intel i5-2500K @ 3,3Ghz Stock (NO OC)

          8GB DDR3 1333mhz RAM

          Nvidia GIGABYTE GTX 970 4GB DDR5 G1 GAMING

          SSD 250GB SAMSUNG 840 EVO (OS,some games...)

          HDD 1TB WD Blue 7200RPM (FRAPS recordings + TV Recordings)

          Windows 7 64bits Home Premium

           

          I'll show you the encoding later due to record from the TV with the PC and...it must stay untouchable to prevent dramas ^^;;...

           

          I plan to upgrade my Tower's insides in April 2015 when Intel's SKYLAKE gets released with DDR4 Motherboards and stuff...This baby can resist some more time...

          • 42. Re: GTX 970 and Premiere Pro
            sinious CommunityMVP

            Ah, 8GB system RAM (you can see AME on my rig taking 11.3GB). I had a couple browser tabs open but that's it as I wanted to get a useful screenshot of true Adobe Media Encoder CC 2014 itself for CPU/GPU/RAM. So that plays a role. Also the 970 is very fast but does have less CUDA cores so that explains some as well. The final piece I believe is the single HD. I did forget to mention that I cleared the 2GB video source a large sequential block to write to so reading would be as fast a possible, and I'm writing to a different drive. Reading and writing to the same SATA HD will hurt performance.

             

            If you want to play with tweaking until April, DDR3 1333 is dirt cheap so adding another dual channel pair in there might help a ton (don't hold me to it). It's always nice having more than enough RAM to just "do more" at once anyhow. Also if you have another drive (even external USB), read from one, write to a different drive. Your south bridge will easily handle that and you'll see a noticable performance bump on anything SATA. (SSD read/writes instantly regardless of sequential or not so this won't help in a SSD situation).

             

            Don't forget to abuse more CUDA cores and run a concurrent test (2 videos at once). We have the same processor so RAM aside, you might find they both encode at the same exact speed as a single video (which is almost what mine does).

            • 43. Re: GTX 970 and Premiere Pro
              DV2FOX Community Member

              n4QKY55.jpg

               

              Hope this helps somehow...

               

              But yeah,might be nice about the RAM upgrade,i'll think about it..

              • 44. Re: GTX 970 and Premiere Pro
                sinious CommunityMVP

                Haha I bet you're used to pegging out that CPU. Look how bored the i5-2500k is now! You can encode 2 files at once and it's only half utilized because CUDA is doing all the work.

                 

                I think 8GB is hurting you from that. Another thing that plays a factor here is I'm doing 1920x1080p@24fps video while you're doing 1280x720@29.97fps. I'm also encoding from a Quicktime Animation lossless format which requires has extremely low overhead (or BitJazz SheerVideo which is even faster).

                 

                Your bottleneck rests squarely in the single HD and RAM areas, your CPU is bored and you're only pushing the GPU to 30%. I would say add 4 videos at once but that will require more RAM and it will thrash your HD bottleneck even worse so unfortunately you can't take advantage of concurrent encodes without solving the single HD issue.

                • 45. Re: GTX 970 and Premiere Pro
                  DV2FOX Community Member

                  Now i see something you don't always see nowadays...And also now i see why that link with the Premiere solution (MP4Box etc) says "Use it at your own risk"

                   

                  Using CCCP (Codec pack) for years and almost nothing bad happened until i did the premiere fix. Very few of my MKV files (mainly), that's a 2 of a dozens or even more (say,15% chance?)  just played with a Green Screen with half of the video not seen but instead replaced with GREENNESS... That's a codec fault!.. I tried uninstalling both CCCP and MP4BOX ,rebooted and then installing CCCP ,reboot and play the same file...SAME PROBLEM!..

                   

                  Until i googled the hell out of google and found a tiny solution...Gotta change MPC (Media Player Classic)'s View->Options-> Playback's Output->DirectShow Video from Enhanced Video Renderer (Custom Presenterer) to...Something else,like Video Mixing Renderer 9,wich disables something called DXVA... close the video and open it again and the problem is GONE...

                   

                  I don't know why this has to happen though...I hope whenever Adobe fixes the GPU stuff i can format my PC (Unless there's a "Delete all video/audio codecs in the PC" clean up tool...There is?,would save hours of time from format) ,reinstall the CCCP codecs  ONLY so that 100% of my MKV (and other format) videos WORKS 100% while KEEPING Adobe's GPU fixes stuff for our premieres n stuff

                   

                  Just a heads-up for whoever wants to try the hacking/modding of premiere with Sinious' method,don't be surprised later!!

                  • 46. Re: GTX 970 and Premiere Pro
                    sinious CommunityMVP

                    I have over 400 HD MKVs (made via AnyDVD HD/Handbrake). I used MainConcept on all of them (not x264). I gave up after starting 62 of them, randomly skipping around. No issue at all.

                     

                    I believe by default NVENC_encode uses a flavor or x264 or DivX. Did you encode to x264? If so, there's the best bead on that conflict.

                     

                    Edit:

                     

                    Since it was slightly relevant and I was just mentioning MainConcept H.264 in MKV, I did receive an official response from the MainConcept engineering team that they have no plans to include support for Kepler or Maxwell (or any future CUDA cores) right now. I originally received that response from someone lower down the food chain but she said she would send it to the actual engineers to double check. The response was:

                     

                    Re: 00272429: CUDA support (Keplar, Maxwell, etc)

                    MainConcept SDK Support customer.care@mainconcept.com

                     

                    Hello Jason,

                     

                    At the moment we have no plans on our roadmap for CUDA improvements.

                     

                    Best regards,

                    Ivan Andryushin

                    Customer Care Team

                     

                    MainConcept GmbH

                    Elisabethstrasse 1

                    52062 Aachen, Germany

                     

                    Email: customer.care@MainConcept.com

                    Web:   http://www.MainConcept.com/

                     

                    [ ref:00D4N2Ps.5004eQRW3:ref ]

                    So I hope Adobe takes note of this since it's a popular choice mainstream codec. NVENC SDK is a shame to neglect.

                     

                    Please also note that just because MP4Box or TsMuxer was your issue, those are completely separate mux applications (mix audio and video). They have nothing to do with if you use NVENC_encode or not. Removing that plugin from AME or Premiere will not fix your MKV issue any more than it will cause it.

                     

                    The plugin author of NVENC_encode was simply trying to be complete with their solution. There are dozens of muxing applications on the market, most aren't free but some are. The author chose some free utilities and integrated with them just to save you some steps. If you choose to use NVENC_encode and a different mux application it will generate the 2 files you need, the .m4v and the uncompressed .wav. So you can still benefit from NVENC_encode speed and mux with your preferred application that doesn't interfere with x264/DivX. (you can have your cuda cake and eat it too)

                    • 47. Re: GTX 970 and Premiere Pro
                      Whitehorsevideo Community Member

                      Hi, Just to help out...

                      I was having real bad problems with Premiere Pro CC and Steam games etc., anything CUDA intensive on my new system.

                      ASUS Z97-P, Intel Core I7-4790K 4.0 GHZ, 32GB DDR/1600MGHz Dual Channel, MSI GTX970 drvr. 9.18.13.4416

                      Removed 1 8GB Ram Stick and now everything's just fine.

                      Could be Nvidia driver, could be Win 8.1, maybe evil demons. Thought you'd be interested.

                      Bill

                      • 48. Re: GTX 970 and Premiere Pro
                        RebelEffects Community Member

                        Except, you know, when speaking of processing load, this supposed "weight" of games and such only applies if someone is stupid enough to be running both the game and editing software at the same time...  Your analogy is flawed because it equates car baggage to drive storage when it SHOULD equate car baggage to # of processor tasks.

                         

                        Or is there something I'm missing?  Please enlighten me as to how having a game installed would tax an editing system when the game is not running.

                        • 49. Re: GTX 970 and Premiere Pro
                          sinious CommunityMVP

                          Whitehorsevideo ~

                           

                          Can you elaborate a bit more on what issues you're having specific to Premiere Pro? Are you (as RebelEffects asked) running it at the same time as playing Steam games? Encoding video and trying to game at the same time will definitely overwhelm your GPU. Depending on the game, I'm skeptical it's using CUDA cores at all, but that doesn't really mean you can do both at the same time. You can, however, have them both open with 32GB RAM. I do it all the time, capturing in-game footage, then pausing the game to go view my capture, putting it in Pemiere, etc. I do it when trying to capture and tweak some really hard stunts so I don't need to constantly start/quit the game. But Premiere is doing nothing but idling while I capture.

                           

                          RebelEffects ~

                           

                          It's perfectly fine to leave Premiere idling in the background. Processing is another thing. I do it all the time on systems with even less RAM, capturing via FRAPS, importing to Premiere and previewing, then switching task back into the game to capture more footage, always having them run parallel. Whitehorsevideo already said it's a i7-4970K and 32GB RAM on a 970 which is way more than capable of doing this. Most high end game footage shooters do this. That is, run both apps (plus a capture app) at the same time, but not encoding + playing.

                          • 50. Re: GTX 970 and Premiere Pro
                            RebelEffects Community Member

                            sinious,

                             

                            I was responding to cc_merchant's completely fallacious statement that having a game installed on an editing machine magically, instantly makes your editing slower no matter what!

                             

                            "Imagine 2 identical cars. One with only the driver, nothing else. The second car with the same driver, three passengers and the trunk filled to the rim with luggage.

                             

                            It is not rocket science to realize that the first car will be significantly faster and easier to handle on curvy roads than the second one.

                            Same with two computers. One with only editing software is lean and mean, the other loaded with all kinds of stuff, among them games, that is slower."

                             

                            He totally misappropriates what a computational load is (storage space is a load?) and uses a simplistic, flawed analogy.  Either he doesn't know what he's talking about or views people who play games through a negative social stigma, or both.  Either way, his argument is ridiculous.

                            • 51. Re: GTX 970 and Premiere Pro
                              sinious CommunityMVP

                              RebelEffects ~

                               

                              Understood and I did see your reply was to him but I'm so used to hitting reply on the last reply it's often not a relevant piece of info, especially directly after someone makes a comment about gaming and encoding at the same time. You're right to an extent because depending on the game (wide gaumet here), it's just space with (lately) a client loaded at boot that largely doesn't interfere or consume mass resources (Steam, Origin, EA, Blizzard, etc). But certain games have profiles and can make changes to your GPUs profile. There's really too much in that equation to say it has zero effect. I'd say is has a very minimal and manageable impact since you can stop game clients from auto-starting, etc.

                              • 52. Re: GTX 970 and Premiere Pro
                                Whitehorsevideo Community Member

                                Hey, so I was having the crash on game launch problem being discussed on Nvidias forum, as well well as Premiere Pro display problems, playback glacially slow and crash to "windows looking for solution" nonsense. Has Windows ever found a solution? I was running programs solo, no render while run and gun stuff. Although on my older workstations I often do Batman Arkham City while rendering out long format programs @ H264 12 MBs data rate. But removing 8 Gig Ram did the trick. I know it makes no sense, but there it is...

                                • 53. Re: GTX 970 and Premiere Pro
                                  sinious CommunityMVP

                                  Whitehorsevideo ~

                                   

                                  Running solo, I haven't had Premiere ever crash on me at start with the GTX 980. Nor while I'm running a game for that matter. Sounds like you may just want to ALT+SHIFT+CTRL while starting Premiere Pro to reset your preferences and give it another shot, or try reinstalling it. Playback is perfectly smooth for me.

                                   

                                  Dropping one stick but still having 3 (since flexmem) won't necessarily drop you out of dual channel mode. It will remove a potentially pair-unfriendly stick of RAM out of the mix however. Did you buy matched pairs? Chances are either you're overclocking and running the RAM at volts/speeds it just can't handle, or you have a memory issue. If overclocking, stop, and see if that fixes it.

                                   

                                  If not overclocking, an easy way to find out if it's RAM pairing issues is to use memtest86 or Prime95's torture test in blend mode, one instance per CPU. Either will thrash your RAM to see if it ever errors. If either program errors out then you know your issue is your memory isn't working together.

                                  • 54. Re: GTX 970 and Premiere Pro
                                    Whitehorsevideo Community Member

                                    Thanks Sinious, but the Nvidia forums, WB Games, Steam etc. all have active threads on this issue, a removing some RAM seems to be working for many. I'm beginning to suspect that Maxwell is still getting settled in. I'll just run 24 Gig until Nvidia tells me the fix is in.

                                     

                                    Sent from my iPhone

                                    • 55. Re: GTX 970 and Premiere Pro
                                      TimvandenOever Community Member

                                      Yes, but I'm sure you as we all do are aware that if you have a specific computer and you use it for browsing gaming and your every day needs. You tend to install programs, remove them, maybe even make good use of ccleaner to try and avoid having your system bog down over time as best you can. Eventually it's going to happen regardless. I know for a fact I keep my computers pretty clean overall and even still it makes sense that you'll get the best performance running nothing but an OS, NLE and getting only the codecs and software you need installed.

                                       

                                      Similarly when setting up what programs may automatically run when you boot windows, cutting one or two won't make much of a difference but it all adds up. It's certainly worth while configuring these details to get the best out of your system. Okay I agree it might be a bit over the top the way it was put, but knowing how much of a slouch certain people are with their computers some advice like this could sure help out a lot.

                                       

                                      ps. If you do run games on your editing rig, consider only keeping a select few installed, not dumping your entire steam library onto your ssd's/hdd's slowing them down.

                                      • 56. Re: GTX 970 and Premiere Pro
                                        sinious CommunityMVP

                                        Whitehorsevideo ~

                                         

                                        Did anyone actually say "why" they feel this is fixing anything? Dropping a stick of RAM does only 2 things.

                                         

                                        1) keeps any other matched sticks in their max channel speed (quad, triple, dual, depends on your ram slots and chipset capability) while putting the odd stick in single channel. In your case, dual channel on 2, single on 1.

                                         

                                        2) Lower the amount of usable physical RAM.

                                         

                                        I'm assuming most of these casual and even enthusiast gamers rarely have over 16GB RAM. 24GB is around the current enthusiast level, 16GB being far more common because almost no game on the planet will utilize anywhere near that amount (remember, video card memory is in use as well, 1-4GB). So unless having 32GB RAM is somehow a rare case, the amount of RAM is not likely to be the problem.

                                         

                                        That only leaves having a stick in single channel. There is literally no other reason left at this point. Is this what they're saying the Maxwell cards need? As I've mentioned here I'm only running mine on a little i5-2500k with 16GB (4x4GB dual channel) and I have absolutely no problem playing CS:S, COD, WoW, Starcraft, Minecraft (hey, I have a kid hehe), Diablo III, BF3, and the occasional UT3 and TF2 still in there. What are you playing that's crashing? Give me a recipe for a guaranteed crash so I can see if it happens to me.

                                         

                                        TimvandenOever ~

                                         

                                        Careful there, SSDs are not spinning disks and reads with near 0 seek time regardless how fragmented it is. That last comment is only really true with physical spinning disks and fragmentation, which can of course be solved with quality defragging. In fact half the slow down of the entire OS is people never letting a system run a defrag over night.

                                        • 57. Re: GTX 970 and Premiere Pro
                                          SwingPoynt Community Member

                                          @sinious

                                           

                                          That NVENC thing you linked is pretty nifty!

                                           

                                          Got it working with a GTX 660ti, and it was much faster! Unfortunately the audio doesn't render in sync, is off by about a second. Wondering if you knew anything about how to fix it?

                                          • 58. Re: GTX 970 and Premiere Pro
                                            sinious CommunityMVP

                                            If you don't use MP4Box and NeroAAC to make a mux'd MP4, etc, you will have a video file and a separate audio file. You can then use any video app (Premiere, After Effects, VirtualDub (free), etc) to combine them. They should handle the resampling.

                                             

                                            The newest SDK has a kep/max CUDA emphasis so just check the type of CUDA you have to be sure it supports the new SDK.

                                             

                                            I literally used that plugin to encode 2 hours ago. Still works perfect several nVidia driver updates later

                                            • 59. Re: GTX 970 and Premiere Pro
                                              SwingPoynt Community Member

                                              So are you suggesting to render it out with NVENC, then re render it to fix the sound?

                                               

                                              I tried using MP4box and Nero to mux it. Worked great except for the audio sync issue.

                                              • 60. Re: GTX 970 and Premiere Pro
                                                sinious CommunityMVP

                                                The speed of output is so crazy fast it may be worth it, especially automated. The big question is how compatible with the NVENC encoder your card is.

                                                • 61. Re: GTX 970 and Premiere Pro
                                                  AlexauGo Community Member

                                                  There is now a big conversation about the support of the GTX 970 on PP CC going on. Most of it is about the export of media not the actual workflow within in PP like the GPU helping in effects such as color correction, scaling and etc. during playback. sinus and Whitehorsevideo how is your experience on that?

                                                   

                                                  Best,
                                                  Alex

                                                  • 62. Re: GTX 970 and Premiere Pro
                                                    sinious CommunityMVP

                                                    With the above linked plugin, I just exported a video yesterday encoded to MP4. It helped a ton with the encode time. I'm still making edits to a short 3min 20sec video and my usual workflow would be to export the video full quality (I use bitjazz's SheerVideo lossless) and then bring it into Sorenson Squeeze to compress it which would be about a 15 minute job. Right now I just encode directly from Premiere using NVENC_encode in under 1 minute and the results are very good. The difference is in what Sorenson Squeeze does best, optimize keyframes and overall file size. I drop a few megs and clean up just a few scene change detected keyframes with SS over direct NVENC export. So for draft rounds (of which there's tons for me) this export has been a huge helper.

                                                     

                                                    I don't want the essence of the new CUDA cores to go unknown however. They were designed from the ground up to be "general purpose" computational power. No longer are they only cores great at SIMD processing. So there's no reason every software vendor should only use them for encoding. They should be used for computing everything possible from 3d, lighting, filters and compositing, etc. They will substantially increase the applications responsiveness and playback.

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