eschelar wrote:

 

yeah, we had the same thing. Of the 90 or so companies we deal with on a regular basis for exchanging artwork, only 3 of them are using CC and we only had a file we couldn't access because of it once. We installed a demo on a test computer and saved the format to CS6 compatible and have not had another problem with this since.

 

Two of the three companies I know of that used CC were using pirated versions and have since stopped using CC, reverting instead to CS6.

 

I can't tell you the number of times I've dealt with clients and other companies where the question is - "you're not using CC are you?"

CC has a negative connotation with the industry professionals I've dealt with.  Adobe will eventually figure it out but by then the damage is done and the once loyal customers will have moved on.

Complety right… I'm a happy CS6 user and QuarkXpress rules in my workflow….

Op 30 mrt. 2014, om 20:57 heeft TheCoroner9 <forums_noreply@adobe.com> het volgende geschreven:

 

Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?

created by TheCoroner9 in Adobe Creative Cloud - View the full discussion

Thanks to everyone who have posted information about alternatives to the Adobe programs.

Sign up for the subscription model??..... Pay for eternity to keep access to the data I have created??....  No way!

I would welcome an alternative plan in which I pay monthly (thereby spreading out the cost of updates), BUT if and only if I could buy a copy of the current version should I ever decide to stop the monthly payments AND that Adobe would allow me to buy the current version at a price that took account of the fact that I had been paying for it along the way with the monthly fees.

By not being able buy out a copy of the programs we have been using/subsidizing we are then captive!

We need to research the replacement programs and work out our "exit plans" on how to move our data when our current versions of the Adobe programs become unusable due to hardware or OS upgrades.

Good plan.  Someone on another forum recommended the following for replacing Photoshop, and it does look excellent:

PhotoLine

http://www.pl32.com

Also there is OnOne Perfect Photo Suite, which is also excellent:

http://www.ononesoftware.com/products/suite8/

I'm currently looking at Final Cut and Motion as replacements for Premiere and AE.

I'm working with QuarkXpress 10 and don't need InDesign. Can open InDesign files in Quark with Markzware ID2Q.

Op 29 apr. 2014, om 17:22 heeft Corndogs R Us <forums_noreply@adobe.com> het volgende geschreven:

 

Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?

created by Corndogs R Us in Adobe Creative Cloud - View the full discussion

Good plan.  Someone on another forum recommended the following for replacing Photoshop, and it does look excellent:

 

 

PhotoLine

 

 

http://www.pl32.com

 

 

 

Also there is OnOne Perfect Photo Suite, which is also excellent:

 

 

http://www.ononesoftware.com/products/suite8/

 

 

I'm currently looking at Final Cut and Motion as replacements for Premiere and AE.

 

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That is interesting to know that you can open ID files in Quark. That may be a possibility I look at some point.

As AE and Premiere replacements, Checkout HITFILM

Well, this just made my decision on what I will recommend to management.

After over a year of building up to a point where we can get a real tool and stop using Notepad++, the pricing model for this is not what were are looking for.

And given the increased poor stability of the CS products as I have moved from CS3 forward, I also don't see this as a good recommendation.

There appears to be a new subscription version of the Photoshop Elements and Premiere Elements, that includes 125GB of cloud storage and automatic updates in the offing.

Adobe Photoshop Elements 12 - Buying guide

Oh, thrills.  Like I can't get that anywhere else for a few pennies.

Apparently some sellers still have earlier versions. Both unopened and used.  Buy it once and use it for as long as you want.  Not the 'continue to buy it even when support and upgrades are not needed or wanted' sales model.

I have a free account with Yahoo and they give me 1TB of cloud storage. I never have to delete an email so long as I live and all my attachments are there, accessible from anywhere, including h264. Luckily CS6 is stable on my machine (cs4 sucked like a dredger) Thanks to Adobe, Ill wait the cc debacle out.

Yes I like using the software and upgraded at least every second release. No I wont rent it. Stick with the subscription only and Adobe will never see another penny from me. Stupid.

Thank you Chris, I wholeheartedly agree.

I hate that I was only able to appreciate one or two software from the previous pay grades. A lump sum is a hard buy for freelancers. $50 per month is right on, and can be written off come tax time.

I was hesitant when CC was first introduced, but the addition and integration of storage and a pro Behance account sweeten the deal. All perfect for where I am professionally today.

So, new versions are out, what do you guys think? Was Adobe working hard innovating?

The CEO said that this is their biggest upgrade since CS6. Well, I'm looking at the new features of After Effects and there is nothing to write home about. I'm curious if you After Effects CC users feel like you got an adequate upgrade?

Andy Bay wrote:

 

So, new versions are out, what do you guys think? Was Adobe working hard innovating?

 

The CEO said that this is their biggest upgrade since CS6. Well, I'm looking at the new features of After Effects and there is nothing to write home about. I'm curious if you After Effects CC users feel like you got an adequate upgrade?

No complaints from me. The AE release mainly seems to be about beefing up Premiere/AE integration and some fine tuning around the edges. It's just updating now, so I'll post back more once I take it for a run. Interesting the AE team are going down the user friendly path, as opposed to gunning after the Nuke end of the market. I just hope they don't go too far down the Motion path!

Given this is the fourth dot point update in 12 months (5th from the busy Premiere team) I feel I'm getting my monies worth. I'm not even getting close to maxing out the feature set in AE these days - haven't even tinkered with the C4D integration and barely scraped the barrel with the 3D camera tracking. I'm more excited about the Premiere and Muse 2014 update myself. You frustrated by the lack of anything in particular in AE, Andy?

You frustrated by the lack of anything in particular in AE, Andy?

Indeed! Still no timeline-folders (really Adobe?), no physics, no real 3D support (means modeling straight inside AE) and preview rendering still pretty much sucks, to name a few things.

I applaud Adobe's decision to OFFER the Creative Cloud, but I condemn their decision to FORCE it upon us. I originally was a downright hater, but my opinions reversed after I heard an Adobe staff member saying, in answer to an "I cant afford this" remark, that after a year or so you have a completely different product. While I am a happy CC user, I know that CC is not for everyone, and there are very many who would be much happier with a perpetual license. While Creative Cloud opened the world of Adobe to me, it did precisely the opposite for many others. I hope Adobe will come to their senses and resume development of the Creative Suite.

Except, of course, you don't have a completely new product within a year. What you have is a slightly modified product with small insignificant improvements.

Your answer does not address Lightroom users. I use Lightroom. I don't use other Adobe programs. There is no suscription for Lightroom only at a reasonable price. $10 a month is very expensive compared to getting a perpetual license that one can use for several years.

I don't use lightroom, but I get what you're saying. The Cloud is only a good offer if you're buying the whole suite. By now, I think the question is not, "when will Adobe come to their senses", but "when will avid and sony screw us".

Although CC might be a good solution for business users, it certainly is not for private persons like me using the PP suite just for hobby purposes. So I rather stick with CS6 than paying a monthly fee and eventually not being able to access my family and vacation movies after quitting my subscription.

So many people wouldn't have a problem if Adobe just kept selling there perpetual license and then in addition have the option for a subscription. So the customer can choose either or. But seems like greed runs everything. I might as well purchase a Mac and use a program like this: 10 reasons to download this free Illustrator alternative today | Ad feature | Creative Bloq . Since it totes that it's better than adobe anyways (I can't speak from experience since I don't own a Mac to try it) what I've been using though it a free software like photoshop: GIMP - The GNU Image Manipulation Program . It's taken a bit to get used to but I haven't yet used the program to it full potential (just for digital painting and to me this program gives me the same experience as Photoshop). So it's possible that Adobe will loose a big chunk of customers and slowly wilt away and die, unless they give the consumer more options.

Affinity sounds really interesting, thanks for telling us about it. I have started using iDraw on my Mac and iPad which I have been quite happy with. Yes, there are some features missing at the moment (symbol sprayer, full Wacom tablet support, etc.) but there are several things I like better then Illustrator as well. The latest updates they did this year had big improvements over where the program was last year and expect them to continue to eat into Illustrators lead quickly. in the mean time I can still use CS6 if I need it.

I suggest anyone like me who does NOT wish to take the CC route completes the survey link Adobe are sending out making it clear we don't want it..

fivebythree wrote:

 

Thank you Chris, I wholeheartedly agree.

 

I hate that I was only able to appreciate one or two software from the previous pay grades. A lump sum is a hard buy for freelancers. $50 per month is right on, and can be written off come tax time.

 

I was hesitant when CC was first introduced, but the addition and integration of storage and a pro Behance account sweeten the deal. All perfect for where I am professionally today.

lol. I like that. $50/month can be written off at tax time. Perfect for a business user. Not so perfect for a non-business user or anyone who counts time in sections larger than a fiscal year. You see $50/month. I see $3600 for the next 6 years. Compare that to $1125 for the next 6 years at every other year upgrade with $375 for Production Premium Suite. It's cool if you can write that off. But name one single expense that you have coming up over the next 5 years or so that you would be happy with if the cost tripled and the value stayed *exactly the same*.

yeah, that's not making much sense.

The really annoying thing is that there's just no good alternative to this pricing. Now that CS6 is getting long of tooth, it's getting harder and harder every day to resist making the move to Pirate Bay. I made a huge personal effort to save up so I could *avoid* this for my personal copy. Now that Adobe's slapping us Suite users in the face, I feel like I should have just saved my money, used pirated software and bought myself some more glass.

Eventually, they might try to make a serious effort to curb piracy, but since piracy is the main reason that they have such a dominant market position, it's pretty unlikely that will happen any time soon.

I wasn't invited to complete it, but I'm curious... what is the survey's focus?

Reply to FrannieKN's post

Although stuck at CS5 at present I am a registered suite owner which is perhaps why I got picked.

A very detailed, comprehensive, survey with lots of questions biased towards knowledge of CC with a scale of about 7 options from Agree fully to No Knowledge of whether you had heard of it, were you likely to switch to it and if not why not.  I answered truthfully with a yes where I had heard of the advantages of CC (there are many if you can afford it for life) but whenever there was an opportunity to comment on why I will never take it up I did so.

My reason for not taking it is primarily that I cannot guarantee to always have the money available for a monthly subscription due to variable cash-flow levels and knowledge that at some time in the future there is a risk I might need to take a month or two out of monthly rentals.   Therefore for me being able to save up and make one-off purchases so as to always have access to the products in the suite, even if they are not the latest version, has to be my route forward as it has been in the past; 100% long-term access means more to me than features I have never had access to.   I probably will jump up to CS6 soon as I now have a MAC (so need a MAC version of the products I already use with Windows) but that will be it unless at some time in the future they release a CS7 purchase option.  I would switch to CC if there was an escape and retain option to download and freeze at that version level after say 18, 24 or even 36 months of payments (Like an old style HP agreement) and if they add that option in I would envisage many doubters would convert, it is the no fee no product/no escape route with Adobe that small business/private hobby users can't commit to for the long term.

Thanks for the scoop, John. I'm a long-time, registered owner too, but it sounds like you represent my position on CC so I'm OK not getting the survey. I hope this means Adobe is considering options, although my loyalty to Adobe will be hard to win back. I would like to buy CS6 and stay with that as long as I can, but then am I one of the folks helping Adobe look good to the stock holders? So, I'll hold with v5.5. I'm hearing positive things about competitors' software and am intrigued and totally willing to support them instead if Adobe doesn't come up with an option that fits my budget. Thanks for feeding my curiosity!

I came across this diagram:

That says it all. It is a nice summary.

That model has some issues.

The first item works well. If budget is not and never will be an issue, use CC. Good, I agree.

But needing XAVC does not change my budget status.

Similarly, having CS6 already and wanting an upgrade does not change my budget status.

The problem here is that regardless of how I can make the subscription payments work in the short term (ie 40% off for the first year), the subscription model quickly returns to an equilibrium beyond my budget.

The funny thing is, the more I make from using Adobe stuff at work, the less time I have to make money from my personal copy. When I started using CS5.5, I had a few freelance jobs and made a few hundred bucks pretty quickly. But now I just don't have the time.

I find it mentally staggering that Adobe feels the need to put out surveys as if threads like this, almost constant complains on their facebook and actual numbers of adopters of CC still much lower than CS owners. Given that we have already passed the point where CC has become not cost effective for Production Suite users (just over 1 year in, with 40% reduction on the first year, the $350, which most users would spread over 2 years has gone away and has been replaced with $600/yr, breaking the average Suite user's budget), and we are well past the point where PS + AI users are in a budget over-run, it is inevitable that users are starting to face the reality of the unrelenting subcription "gotcha by the bawlz" model.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that this is going to be bad for them in the long run. Over the next 6 months, existing subscribers might even start decreasing (or it should if they are familiar with basic math).

So why does Adobe even need to ask?

Again, if I walked into MacDonalds and they wanted $25 for a burger meal, why would MacDonalds need to run a survey to determine if I am going to be a happy, returning customer or not?

This can only mean one thing.

They still have their heads buried in the sand and are doing their best to keep them there.

I think it would be appropriate if we started using the term "ransomware" for Adobe CC.

Recently, there was a new type of Malware called "cryptolocker". It encrypted your files so you couldn't use them unless you paid money. Refusal to pay money will render your files inaccessible.

Adobe now locks your programs and won't let you use them unless you pay them money. Refusal to pay money will render your files inaccessible.

Most businesses found that it was more cost-effective to just swallow the cost and pay the money to return to business as usual.

Many private users found the amount too much and chose to lose their files.

Functionally the same model.

So there was another new release of CC products.. Can any happy CC users outline the main features we should get excited about? Would you have bought this upgrade if you weren't forced to do so?

By the way, did you notice that the q3 financial numbers were not that great, and now even the stock market reacted.

Also in the news, how Adobe is spying on it's users:

http://the-digital-reader.com/2014/10/06/adobe-spying-users-collecting-data-ebook-librarie s/#.VDaXu_l_t8E

Wow. WOW. Makes me wonder how many times that I've unchecked the box that allows apps to "share" my usage info have actually been honored. Thanks for enlightening me, Andy!

AVID is already starting up a subscription model...it's already happening.

Andy Bay wrote:

 

So there was another new release of CC products.. Can any happy CC users outline the main features we should get excited about? Would you have bought this upgrade if you weren't forced to do so?

 

I'm pretty happy about the inclusion of a bezier mask pen tool feature, and the directly featherable edges. I've been waiting for that for about the last decade. One less reason to roundtrip through AE. The new interface took a few minutes of getting used to but I'm liking the larger tabs and improved responsiveness. A few other features are minor but handy, like Send to Audition keeping the files next to the originals.

Would I have bought this upgrade? Mute point - it's a .1 update so it would have been free anyway. Would I have bought Premiere 2014? Hmm, maybe. This update would have made it a more attractive proposition.

By the way, did you notice that the q3 financial numbers were not that great, and now even the stock market reacted.

Yes, a mixed bag overall but Cloud growth was strong.

Adobe ends Q3 on mixed note but Creative Cloud subscriptions continue to climb | ZDNet

"As for Creative Cloud, the San Jose-headquartered firm ended the quarter with more than 2.81 million paid subscriptions for the cloud-based design software bundle, up 502,000 from last quarter.

Narayen noted that Adobe plans to fuel Creative Cloud growth further through three primary methods: aggressively convert more desktop Adobe software customers to Creative Cloud, target new customers with tailored offerings (i.e., Creative Cloud for photographers, etc.), and add more mission critical services (i.e., mobile apps built on Adobe's SDK)."

They have reached 25% of their CS6 userbase of 12 million in 1.5 years. I guess losing only 75% of your customers can be called a great success these days.

Andy Bay wrote:

 

They have reached 25% of their CS6 userbase of 12 million in 1.5 years. I guess losing only 75% of your customers can be called a great success these days.

25% is probably lower since many Cloud subscribers are new to Adobe. They never previously owned any CS software.

I suspect Adobe would view the 75%+ as a growth opportunity rather than "losing" them. One of Adobe's stated aims includes aggressively converting more Creative Suite customers.

Creative Suites began in 2003 so it took 11 years to get the current CS-CS6 userbase. 25% converted to Cloud in 18 months is not a bad result especially considering the enormous resistance to the Cloud model in some parts in the early days.

The Cloud is not for everyone. Adobe acknowledges that since they still sell CS6.

Besides, factors other than "don't like the Cloud" also preclude people from joining the Cloud: new hardware/operating system required, Cloud not available in their country (the geographic "reach" will inevitably improve), don't have a credit card (that will also improve over time), etc.

The results also state that 63% of revenue was recurring (Cloud subscriptions) - based on 2.81 million subscriptions. That can only increase. Creative Suite income will inevitably shrink to soon become insignificant.

By any measure, the Cloud is clearly where Adobe's future lies.

FYI,

I just had a situation recently where an InDesign file and assets were given to me, It was saved in InDesign CC, (large NYC agency) I was unable to open or use the files, (I have CS6)  the client was also unable to save the files in a previous version of InDesign so I was unable to complete the task.

Is this the same for all CC files/documents? that they can not be saved in a previous version like CS6-5 etc?

Can someone with CC answer this? or is it just InDesign CC files that can not be saved to previous versions? or was my client not as davy as he could have been??

I refuse to subscribe to the CC business model. Its a personal thing, I just despise the rent culture business model, There is no way it will be customer friendly of customer efficient in the long term. ) + Adobe customer service really sucks and you know you will be wasting hours of productivity trying to get help there.

I have been using Adobe products since 1994 PS 1.0 and Adobe has been the ground breaking innovators of all software for computer creatives since forever.

I am a huge fan of their products and innovations (even if they are the most arrogant of companies with poor customer service)

I am one of those users (Film Production Designer) who own most of the Creative Suite CS6, but mostly use Photoshop, occasionally InDesign and Illustrator and Premiere once or twice a year, I often work abroad in locations where internet access is slow and sometimes non existent for days/weeks at a time and I can not afford any interruption in my workflow, ever.

I think back to The Thomas & John Knoll days at Adobe, where it was all about innovation and invention, now its all about shareholder profits (nothing wrong with that) as long as the innovation and invention keep up. To be honest, nothing really substantial has changed in PS since 4 or 5, sure there are some tricky fixes and tools and gimmicks that make the workflow a little easier and faster but its the same thing with new bells and whistles really. I hire graphic designers and retouchers still using CS2-3 and its all good.

I think if Adobe had of concentrated on more security and focused more energy on making software piracy impossible their profits would have quadrupled. I think CC was part of that thinking but CC it only works for a very limited type of professional user, office bound corporate type designers/photographers/illustrators

I am hoping Adobe will offer both the CC service and the previous upgrade purchase style in the future to best serve their customer base.

From the posts I have read on this topic I understand 1.3Million users switched to CC, does not seem like many considering how aggressive Adobe marketed cheap introductory offers and campaigned for CC, + I know a substantial amount of Adobe's profits last year was from people like me who went and upgraded all their Adobe Software to CS6 as I have no intention of joining the Creative Cloud. (interesting how they did not disclose or itemize last years profits, unlike previous years)

It will take a while but I can see many other companies beginning to see the void Adobe have created (even Apple) and you will see great alternatives arriving in the next year or two, (so if you have not already, upgrade to CS6 and wait. I think Apples new OS "Yosemite" has a new software called "Photo" which may the beginning of some serious competition for Adobe, I really hope so, competition seems to get everyone back on track.

I'm not on CC, but it sounds like NYC can still export to IDML for you, although it takes awhile to export and to open (ie step away for lunch while it's opening).

I'm with you on everything you've said in your post, rpearson1. Software doesn't make good graphic designers, but I've been loyal to Adobe since '94 because they worked hard to support us and like their software, but their philosophy has changed from making customers loyal to holding them captive. For over a decade, I've admired a local graphic designer who turns out exceptional design on pre-CS versions. I am confident that I can use "outdated" Adobe programs or competitive software and still make my clients happy.

25% is probably lower since many Cloud subscribers are new to Adobe. They never previously owned any CS software.

Much possible.

I suspect Adobe would view the 75%+ as a growth opportunity rather than "losing" them. One of Adobe's stated aims includes aggressively converting more Creative Suite customers.

By the same logic Paint Shop Pro should view the lost 99% of users as a huge opportunity! Do you think Netscape also views all the Firefox/IE/Chrome users as a opportunity?

It's hard to see how Adobe could be any more aggressive than it has been. Maybe the next step is to put some ransomware on every Acrobat user that can only get cleaned out with CC?

Creative Suites began in 2003 so it took 11 years to get the current CS-CS6 userbase. 25% converted to Cloud in 18 months is not a bad result especially considering the enormous resistance to the Cloud model in some parts in the early days.

11 years worth of users lost in 1.5 years of bad decisions. But feel free to view the glass as half full!

The results also state that 63% of revenue was recurring (Cloud subscriptions) - based on 2.81 million subscriptions.

63% is a really crappy number, since CS6 is old software now and they literally hide it on their website. That percentage tells us that the majority of cloud subscriptions are heavily discounted. Which brings me to your next point -of course the revenues can drop even more, especially when the discounts end and many poor users stop being able to afford the higher prices. Or when competitors march out their new products.

Creative Suite income will inevitably shrink to soon become insignificant.

I agree. But will the bitter ex-customers switch to CC? I doubt it. I won't.

By any measure, the Cloud is clearly where Adobe's future lies.

Probably true. I guess the real question is what that future looks like for Adobe!

Andy Bay wrote:

Creative Suites began in 2003 so it took 11 years to get the current CS-CS6 userbase. 25% converted to Cloud in 18 months is not a bad result especially considering the enormous resistance to the Cloud model in some parts in the early days.

 

11 years worth of users lost in 1.5 years of bad decisions. But feel free to view the glass as half full!

Thank you. I will continue to do so. There's nothing "lost" about it.

Andy Bay wrote:

 

The results also state that 63% of revenue was recurring (Cloud subscriptions) - based on 2.81 million subscriptions.

 

63% is a really crappy number, since CS6 is old software now and they literally hide it on their website. That percentage tells us that the majority of cloud subscriptions are heavily discounted. Which brings me to your next point -of course the revenues can drop even more, especially when the discounts end and many poor users stop being able to afford the higher prices. Or when competitors march out their new products.

 

That's focussing on the individual retail sales channel. There are also plenty of much bigger corporate sales. 63% of revenue is company-wide, not just Cloud/Creative Suite. Adobe has plenty of other products.

Call me a fanboy but I see only upside. There's a huge  untapped new user market. Plus I suspect that more people continue their subscription than cancel. Revenue can only increase.

Thanks for your input. Food for thought.