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160. Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
rickjerz Nov 1, 2014 6:26 AM (in response to Nancy O.)Nancy, I did what you said and confirmed that you (and people) can design webpages that do not display well in Design View. However, in trying to edit your example in Live View leads to the same problems, it cannot be easily edited and exhibits many of the same problems that people have mentioned in this discussion. So my guess is that one cannot easily create webpages such as yours in Dreamweaver right now (maybe you can tell us what you actually used, maybe coded by hand???).
My fluid design webpages (that I created with Dreamweaver's templates) can be easily edited in Design View and not easily edited in Live View. This is the point that I think we are all making. Give us back something that works! Sure, someday, maybe Live View will replace Design View. But there was no need for Adobe to remove this functionality at this point in time. (Actually, with the fix mentioned above, I can work just fine in Design View, recognizing that some folks found other problems with this fix.)
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161. Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
Nancy O. Nov 1, 2014 10:31 AM (in response to rickjerz)rickjerz wrote:
So my guess is that one cannot easily create webpages such as yours in Dreamweaver right now (maybe you can tell us what you actually used, maybe coded by hand???).
That's custom coded in DW. I work in code view mainly out of necessity. Given a choice, I'd like to use DView or LView or whatever actually works. But from where I sit, DView is a failure at CSS rendering. And LView is failing at performance and other issues.
What irritates me most is the occasional client who insists on being able to edit their site in Design View. Talk about a productivity killer! I'm wasting additional development time on crazy workarounds specifically to placate Design View's many failures. I shouldn't have to do that! Nobody should. To that extent, I've pretty much reached the end of my rope. I'm telling clients to use a different editor or let me build them a CMS.
My fluid design webpages (that I created with Dreamweaver's templates) can be easily edited in Design View and not easily edited in Live View. This is the point that I think we are all making.
I totally get that. That's my point too. What Adobe has done is NOT consistent or adequately catering to its user base. You want DView returned because, even though it fails at many things, it's still better than nothing. But that criteria is inherently flawed. I want to see Adobe put forth something that actually WORKS for everyone. I don't really care what they call the darned thing -- DView, LView or something New View. Just so long as it works for every level of user.
Nancy O.
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162. Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
Nancy O. Nov 1, 2014 4:42 PM (in response to madwebllc)madwebllc wrote:
You just don't get it do you?
I think I do get it. Perhaps it's you who are arrogantly dismissing all other points of view here...
You seem to think we would put out some garbage to our clients.
I have no idea what that means. I have never disrespected you or your work or how you perform your job. Hell, I don't even know you. What you do is strictly between you and your clients.
The fact you have to post some HTML lesson is evidence you don't get this point, or you are just that arrogant.
The example I posted above is from an actual demo I wrote & published on my site. Yesterday, I pulled out that handy example to illustrate just how broken Design View is for the doubting Thomas's like you who really don't get it.
For those who didn't take time to examine the code, I'll quickly recap with screenshots.
Design View (impossible to work with)
DW Live View (more accurate rendering but not good for editing).
PineGrow Web Designer (priced at $49, this software excels at fast accurate rendering and editing with a scalable interface for people on Hi-res displays. Something else which DW has neglected to provide.)
If this low-priced software can do it right, why can't Adobe?
Either way I will no longer feed your trolling, and I encourage everyone in this thread to not respond to your posts either.
Good. Nothing would please me more .
Lets remained focused on getting Adobe to listen to its customer base, so we can get back to serving ours.
Fine. And don't forget I AM impacted by these deficits and every bit as much a part of Adobe's user base as you. No different, really, just on opposite sides of the exact same coin. I feel as strongly as you do that Adobe needs to fix DW or risk losing customers from BOTH sides of that coin.
Nancy O.
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163. Re: Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
Chepe Nicoli Nov 3, 2014 3:49 PM (in response to Ron Kurtus)Possible work-around:
I deleted:
Dreamweaver Fluid Grid Properties ---------------------------------- dw-num-cols-mobile: 4; dw-num-cols-tablet: 8; dw-num-cols-desktop: 12; dw-gutter-percentage: 25; from my CSS file.. The Design/Live toggle now appears and works, as does Spell Check. Also, the page still seems responsive and fluid.
I do like this workaround, I duplicated my css file and deleted these properties. Now I can work FASTER, if I need live view or edit the responsive design I could copy back the deleted lines (and close and re open DW).
Hope Adobe understands that we, users, want options, and not to be forced to work the way they think we must work.
Just my humble opinion.
********
I just realized that deleting these lines will get back the LIVE/DESING options, so I guess the only thing Adobe should do is activate these options regardless of the fluid grid properties is present or not in the css file.
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164. Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
Stevefas Nov 5, 2014 7:38 AM (in response to Ron Kurtus)Oh great.
I can't see table cell outlines anymore, much less the Expanded Table feature that helps sometimes.
...Scratching head...
Is there a training video I missed somewhere showing proper workflow for the new Dreamweaver with responsive sites? Are we supposed to use Muse now? Reflow? I'm confused and have to use the CC June release (until it breaks)...
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165. Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
Jon Fritz II Nov 5, 2014 8:00 AM (in response to Stevefas)I think you just found another "oops" on Adobe's part. If you use a table on a Fluid Grid site that doesn't have a border setting in the html or css, you won't be able to see the individual cell outlines because there's nothing to see in the forced Live View.
You could add the following css during development to the end of your stylesheet, then remove it before you upload...
table {border:1px solid black;}
Or play with Design Time Style Sheets: Dreamweaver Help | Use Design-Time style sheets
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166. Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
Stevefas Nov 5, 2014 8:22 AM (in response to Jon Fritz II)Jon, now I can see the cells, but I still can't visually drag to resize (or anything else).
Tables are still vital to present data and even for designing html e-mails.
I hate using old software, but in this case I'm forced to.
What passed for good ideas in the boardroom, aren't holding up in this designroom.
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167. Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
Jon Fritz II Nov 5, 2014 8:32 AM (in response to Stevefas)I think they definitely jumped the gun on dropping Design View for Fluid Grid pages.
Live View just isn't ready to take over everything from Design View yet.
I really don't think they'll go back to the way it was but maybe with all of these issues being brought up, they'll hasten the release of a better "blended" view that does what's needed.
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168. Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
Stevefas Nov 5, 2014 8:46 AM (in response to Jon Fritz II)Right. After all, don't we all use Chrome/DeveloperTools or Firefox/Firebug as part of the workflow? So we already had "live view".
What we need is a design-view (or an improved "orange-line edit view") to lay things down quickly. Like a sketch pad.
I understand the poor rendering of javascript files, social-aggregators, list menus, etc. was part of the design view territory.
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169. Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
Mark.Kirkeby Nov 5, 2014 8:49 PM (in response to Stevefas)Stevefas wrote:
Right. After all, don't we all use Chrome/DeveloperTools or Firefox/Firebug as part of the workflow? So we already had "live view".
What we need is a design-view (or an improved "orange-line edit view") to lay things down quickly. Like a sketch pad.
I understand the poor rendering of javascript files, social-aggregators, list menus, etc. was part of the design view territory.
That is the process that I have used for years, Live view has never rendered fully accurate, I have always opened in Chrome to test code, and when I complete a design I test in Chrome FireFox and IE to ensure cross browser compatibility,
this will likely never be a feature in DW.
I am still waiting for DW Devs to give us some idea of how they intend to fix this issue, or if they are going to fix this issue, or if we as a collective group need to abandon fluid grid design, and either use a different strategy for responsive design, or different tools to do our daily work. I am no longer hamstrung because I have downgraded to a old version, so I am back to work , and work is good. but this defeats the purpose of my monthly CC payment, If I wanted to stay with a single old version I would have just bought a new Dreamweaver rather than going with CC. The value of CC will continue to diminish for me if this current trend in Adobe development continues.
I have tested quite a few other web development software , but dont really care for any of them, but if needed will find one that suites my needs, and for other tools well Gimp works pretty damn good.....
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170. Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
B. Carson Nov 7, 2014 11:55 AM (in response to Mark.Kirkeby)Right! We'll never get away from testing cross browser, nor should we.
I'm remembering back to an earlier version when I first discovered Live View. I pushed the button; watched it render the page a little weird; attempted to use it in workflow; then NEVER TOUCHED THAT BUTTON AGAIN.
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171. Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
Stevefas Nov 10, 2014 7:06 AM (in response to B. Carson)Live view is great for developing or fine-tuning your css, as it reflects changes dynamically. And inspect mode works great with css development along with the CSS Designer.
All great improvements, imo.
But editing content divs in an existing responsive page is so burdensome now — useful tools are seemingly no longer in the toolkit.
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172. Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
matthew stuart Nov 13, 2014 4:02 PM (in response to Ron Kurtus)Part of what I do is promote Adobe products to design companies and encourage these companies that I work with to upgrade to the latest versions of software. An issue I keep coming across with potential 'upgraders' is the links in live view are 'live' and act just like they would do in a browser. So, if I try to click to select a button in a jQuery slider, or in a navigation bar made from an unordered list, it acts like a link and therefore I am unable to add further content in design view. Slideshows are particularly difficult to edit. it leads to frustration and ultimately abandonment of the new software.
Further frustration is if a PHP page requires a database, but the database isn't available to connect to or Apache and MySQL aren't installed, you get 'No database selected' or 'Cannot connect to the server' instead of a designed layout… there's a beautiful view of the fluid grid guides though! If connection to the database is successful, invariably there will be a repeat region which slows the page redraw down MASSIVELY, and even then, if the repeated region is a div that has been enclosed in href tags, then the whole div and all of its contents become an active button, thus making it difficult to click into and edit… and just to reiterate what others have said, if you try to work on a password protected page, you get the login page displayed instead of what you're trying to work on… that's been quite embarrassing to justify, in fact, I can't!
In the short while this upgrade has been available, I am now having trouble convincing companies to upgrade. These issues are not conducive to improved workflow and ultimately impact on profit. If you're actively forcing users to work in code view, then you're discouraging DW customers - the visual users - to move to the next version of software. There are a number of excellent text editors out there like Sublime Text, but that's not what DW users want. I still see a large number of companies using boxed versions of CS6, and such confusing deprecation of functions is proving to be a hard sell, especially when digital content is being produced in greater volumes now than it ever has been before.
Anyway, I'm sure some of you have figured this out, but in order to retain the commented fluid grid properties in the CSS file, and disable the default live view, you can simply add a character to the commented code… it seems any character will do:
/*
Dreamweaver Fluid Grid Properties
----------------------------------
dw-num-cols-mobile: X 4;
dw-num-cols-tablet: 8;
dw-num-cols-desktop: 12;
dw-gutter-percentage: 30;
This 'X' or whatever you use breaks the code and activates the design view, but lets you retain the code should you wish to revert back in order to use the new features.
Anyway, bring back design view!
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173. Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
subhadeep_banerjee Nov 13, 2014 10:04 PM (in response to matthew stuart)Hello matthew,
The issues you mentioned were really insightful. This type of descriptive information helps us understand the exact issue & in creating actionable items.
While I cannot commit that Design View will be back, we are definitely looking at improving responsive workflows for the next major release.
Rest assured that all the problems listed by users here have been jotted down & are being worked upon.
Thanks,
Subhadeep
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174. Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
Tropical Soul Nov 14, 2014 1:00 AM (in response to subhadeep_banerjee)SUbhadeep,
While I do understand that you can't commit that design view won't be back, can you indicate whether live view will be greatly improved to the point that it actually works!
Can you tell us if it will be as good as or better than Pinegrow or Macaw in terms of the performance with no lag in rendering? Will we be able to select elements for editing easily with out the spinning ball like you can with these much cheaper alternatives? Will dreamweaver be fast like a hare like it used to be or will it get slower than a tortoise like it is now?
These guys obviously don't have the rescourses Adobe has but they seem to have achieved something on a shoe string budget that works and has great development potential. That is a live view that works!!
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175. Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
madwebllc Nov 14, 2014 1:42 AM (in response to Tropical Soul)Given the uproar over the removal of design view.. I find it disconcerting to read "While I cannot commit that Design View will be back" ( I assume he meant to say 'comment') I would think that such concerns would be the number one importance.
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176. Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
Joshbiz Nov 14, 2014 2:00 AM (in response to madwebllc)Well, their development team must be aware of the issues for everyday users of DW following this discussion. But we'll see...
Adobe's revenue from CC has dropped a lot lately so they really ought to be listening to us, the users. See Dark clouds for Adobe as profits slide by 46% | News | PC Pro
If Design View is screwed up, removed or not replaced with something similar, for me personally, it might be the defining moment that I cancel my subscription (which is a significant cost) and switch to new software alternatives for everything I do. I could buy a copy of PS Elements to replace PS for instance. So lets hope they're listening.
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177. Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
Chepe Nicoli Nov 14, 2014 9:01 AM (in response to madwebllc)madwebllc wrote:
Given the uproar over the removal of design view.. I find it disconcerting to read "While I cannot commit that Design View will be back" ( I assume he meant to say 'comment') I would think that such concerns would be the number one importance.
Many of us will be disappointed.
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178. Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
Mark.Kirkeby Nov 14, 2014 4:01 PM (in response to Chepe Nicoli)I find it amusing that you think you would get any answer of substance from Subhadeep, he has no answers , and no information, and does little to give us any hint that Adobe even cares about it's end users.
His first reply in this thread was to ask the OP to beta test this software
*****
Hello Ron,
We understand that it is always difficult to work with new features, but once you get used to it we assure you that you'd never want to go back.
The older Fluid Grid framework used to rely on an outdated browser engine. This time we have replaced it with the Chromium Embedded Framework.
What it means for you is that, you'll get the same rendering in Live View as you'd expect in Chrome or Safari. So, you'll be spending less time switching between the browser & DW.
If you can list down the workflows you are trying while editing in Live View & the issues you are facing in doing so, it will help us understand what is amiss & suggest alternative workflows to do the same.
Let us know !
-Subhadeep
*****
Anyone paying monthly fees should be absolutely enraged by that, seriously, The devs broke the software , and we are paying for the privilege to give beta feedback, seriouslyh ,anyone running the current version should be getting thier dues for free,
things seem backwards here to me.
our next remark from Subhadeep besically says suck it, and deal with it... his response does nothing to deal with the issues that web developers using the Adobe Fluid Grid issues ..... they are making live view easier for us,
So I guess we just take it lying down keep paying for broken software, never has there been any feedback of positive reinforcement of what the devs are doing...
More rage~~
****************
@Vernon,
Thank you for reporting the issues that you're facing.
All,
We are closely following the discussions on this thread & taking note of the problems that you're facing.
Newer age responsive layouts use HTML5 elements that would not get rendered accurately in design view. There is really no option but to move to Live View.
We are working on making Live View editing as easy as possible for you. Please list down the workflows/functionalities you find missing in Live View.
-Subhadeep
*****
Our next response from Subhadeep was to thank Ray for Beta feedback
****
Thank you for listing down your problems Ray.
-Subhadeep
***
This thread is full of people that have reported the issue to support only to have thier cases closed with no support feedback,
in these Adobe forums we have Subhadeep to give us null answers and keep the masses calm
WELL I AM NOT CALM , I AM RAGING MAD
Next response from Subhadeep was to once again ask for beta help, the simple thing that we have all experienced , and this thread has been about was fluid grids and live view and Subhadeep is asking for files for something easily recreated in a lab
environment.... none of the ******** that we do even goes to the devs, I find it highly unlikely that anyone with any juice at all reads or receives feedback from this forum , no all we have is Subhadeep to give us NON answers, this level of support is horrific, I would expect this from some third world dev company , I do not expect it from Adobe
so on to our next official response from Subhadeep, something that was actually off topic, but still pertinent to end users~
once again a request for something that is easily recreated, and this issue falls in more forum threads than just this one,
Dreamweaver is seriously broken, but the end users should tell you what to fix rather than debugging the app
*****************
Ron,
If you have files which are particularly slow to load in Live VIew, can you just mail them across to me at subbaner_@_adobe.com.
We are investigating issues related to slow loading and would appreciate if others can also send their files related to slowness in Live View.
Thanks,
Subhadeep
*********************
RAGE
If we are to beta test , make it worth our while ,
or just fix the issues~ but dont make use pay you to debug the software
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179. Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
matthew stuart Nov 15, 2014 10:01 AM (in response to Ron Kurtus)Although design view is a mess on occasions, it's still visual and allows limited skill coders to select content easily for editing in either design view or jumping over to code view because the code associated to what was selected in design view has been highlighted. I can have a page made up of more than 1,000 lines of code, scrolling from top to bottom and back up again is time consuming, but clicking the item in design view takes me straight to the code.
One major problem with Live view that I have discovered for myself in the last few days is where I have created some garage door css effects as buttons. On mouse over, the hidden content animates into view - pretty common effects. I am having to edit the content of the div that is hidden, however, I can't select it because it's acting just like it does in a browser. With design view, although it might not be rendered 100% correct, I was able to click multiple times until the div that is hiding it expands to reveal the one I want to edit. I can hunt for this small section of code in code view, but it takes so long to sift through hundreds of lines of code so why should I when I have a direct path to it simply by clicking in design view.
As somebody who does train people, I personally would never tell all to not use a particular tool as it depends upon capabilties of those being trained. Design view is key to helping those learning to use DW find their way around code. People learn to use DW because they have either struggled to learn code, don't want to, or simply don't have the time, otherwise they'd use a text editor. A good example of a new idea (old now) that doesn't meet standards for me is photoshop's quick selection tool. It's OK for those who don't know how to use a channel or a vector path, but if I tried to convince a professional retoucher to use it, I'd be laughed out of the building. So, I have to pick the tool relevant for the target audience that I am talking to. Photoshop doesn't need channels or paths - Photoshop Elements is evidence of that - but photoshop still gives the choice that suits a workflow, it should do, and so should dreamweaver, it's the professional tool!
I have demo'd Adobe software to all sorts of audiences, I've stood on stands at trade shows and most people are happy after I have shown them an answer to their problem. Due to software issues, lack of acknowledgement of issues, or discontinued products and functions, I have on a few occassions had some angry Adobe customers to deal with, I have also had one man try to punch me. My point here about design view is, this is a tool where customers are passionate because something favoured for workflow has been removed but no viable alternative has been given. Perhaps we should have design view back until that usable alternative has been created. Currently, I have no answer to what I am challenged on for those angry customers.
Basically, we need to be able to switch off the live view to enable easier selection! I personally don't care if it's design view or not, but something needs to be provided to placate all who are disgruntled, and there are many more than the few here!
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180. Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
RR456 Nov 15, 2014 11:09 AM (in response to matthew stuart)Very well put.
For DW 2014.1, once you do get the file loaded; which if you have a GA script, can take up to 2 or 3 minutes, then you start the "Code Focus Fight".
In an RWD the focus always begins with the entire <div class="gridContainer clearfix"> and one must be careful not to accidently hit a key or you've wiped-out all the page's code. After carefully getting the focus off that <div>, good luck if you are working <ul>s. And <ul>s are simple compared to your code work. I have to work many <li>s. You find the specific <li> in Live View, since trying to find it in Code View is very inefficient. Drop the cursor in Live View of the <li> you wish to edit or remove (at that point you'd better note the code line) because trying to drop the cursor in the appropriate code is impossible in the first attempt. The focus is always on the entire <ul>, which is why I've found it efficient to remember the particular code line of the <li>.
In short, efficiency is not the strong selling point of DW 2014.1. And yes it has been pointed-out we can revert back to a prior version; but, isn't the CC subscription arrangement completely null and void if we are forced to use a prior version?
And, in your case sounds like you need to send a bill for the trade show body guard to Adobe.
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181. Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
madwebllc Nov 16, 2014 4:33 AM (in response to Joshbiz)I know that Adobe was expecting a drop in revenue as some wouldn't be interested into going to a subscription model. But from the looks of it they are getting hit far harder then they expected.
I have begun to make contingency plans to move off of the Adobe platform (including my business catalyst clients) if design view or an alternative which functions the same is not brought back. Right now Microsoft Visual Studio hosted on Azure is under strong consideration. Now as RR456 commented about how a CC subscription is 'null and void' if we have to use a prior version. As I touched on before it doesn't bother me the least that Adobe did something that pissed off its customers. Its how they are handling it that bothers me. I challenge Adobe to do the following:
- Acknowledge this update failed in standards and wasn't properly tested prior to release. (I refuse to believe that properly tested software would created this much backlash. If you feel it was, then fire your quality control team)
- Make a commitment that design view will return or something of extremely similar function will be added to the next release. (where DW is meant for a more advanced level of web developer, design view helps those with lesser code skills to produce quality products of the advance level developer. For the code snobs who feel DV is not needed my suggestion for you is... don't use it
- If you seek our input and want us to participate in meetings about Adobe products, or expect us to send you our work to help you troubleshoot, you better make it worth our while. Pay us, discounted (better yet free) software.. something. Asking us for such in depth assistance for something WE pay YOU to fix tells me you are stalling and have no serious intention on fixing the issue. If you can't do that, then this form is your only source of feedback you are going to get.
Make a commitment to right this wrong, once you make a promise then stand by it... Then you will find a lot of forgiveness from yours.. until then.. Don't act surprised by your bottom line dropping so hard.
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182. Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
suffrin_mick Nov 24, 2014 1:56 PM (in response to Ron Kurtus)Just to add my comment to Adobe.... I've used Dreamweaver for about 15 years now and this latest change to Design View has left me so frustrated! It's taken me a while to find this thread, I thought I was going mad that some pages had a design view button and other files i needed to edit insisted that they upload themselves to my server!!! What if I don't want to upload them to a server??? My biggest issue with this live view mode is when i'm working on a site that requires the user to login. All I see is the login screen??? I LIKE and USE the design view. Please, adobe, just include the option to turn live view OFF!
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183. Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
Mark.Kirkeby Nov 24, 2014 2:05 PM (in response to suffrin_mick)suffrin_mick wrote:
Just to add my comment to Adobe.... I've used Dreamweaver for about 15 years now and this latest change to Design View has left me so frustrated! It's taken me a while to find this thread, I thought I was going mad that some pages had a design view button and other files i needed to edit insisted that they upload themselves to my server!!! What if I don't want to upload them to a server??? My biggest issue with this live view mode is when i'm working on a site that requires the user to login. All I see is the login screen??? I LIKE and USE the design view. Please, adobe, just include the option to turn live view OFF!
Mick,
Unfortunately this is not a good place to give bug info , or to get any enlightened feedback
We do have a Subhadeep that tried to baffle us with bull, and request paying users to debug and feedback, your comments are in line with what we have all reported here,
but please do not hold your breathe hoping for anything~
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184. Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
Nancy O. Nov 24, 2014 2:21 PM (in response to Mark.Kirkeby)Preran posted a link to the future plans for Dreamweaver.
Message from the Dreamweaver Product team
And there is a Responsive Survey link on the main discussion page for anyone interested in giving the team some feedback.
Nancy O.
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185. Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
Preran Nov 24, 2014 2:30 PM (in response to Nancy O.)To add to what Nancy said, this discussion here has provided us with insights into issues that you are facing with Live view for Fluid Grid Layouts. The product team has been actively monitoring this discussion and using this feedback towards improving the experience. In the links that Nancy has provided, we encourage you to let us know about issues that you face with the current workflow (other than those that we have already covered here), and what you would like to see in future moving forward. The product team is looking to fine tune the roadmap it using feedback that you provide.
Providing us with the exact details of things you would like to see improved would be most beneficial.
Again, thank you for your passion, and taking time to provide us with feedback to improve your favorite web designing software.
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186. Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
pandora_tomorrow Nov 25, 2014 4:36 AM (in response to Ron Kurtus)Amazing. Works like a treat - even writes the code better.
Adobe - WHAT ARE YOU THINKING?
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187. Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
Mark.Kirkeby Nov 25, 2014 7:39 AM (in response to pandora_tomorrow)So here is the thread that nancy posted a link to
Message from the Dreamweaver Product team
rajnishb Nov 24, 2014 12:51 AM
Now that the October release is out, we have collected significant feedback from our users. Based on the feedback, we would like to share our thinking
in terms of the short/mid-term road-map of the product.
We are currently focused on the following vectors :
- Responsive Design
- Code View
- Live View enhancements
Responsive Design
The number of Dreamweaver users that are creating responsive sites in increasing by the day. We intend to provide better tooling to make you more efficient.
We are exploring ways to visualize media queries, support for prominent open source frameworks and starter templates.
Code View
We would invest in making the coding surface, modern. In addition, we intend to bring new tooling around CSS pre-processors.
Please expect some significant improvements in the next version of Dreamweaver. The intent here is to increase your productivity.
Live View
As most of you would be aware, Live View uses the same rendering surface that's used by Chrome.
This allows us to provide accurate rendering experience of your code. We will continue to invest in improving Live View.
We understand there has been some concern related to Design View's future. We are working on prioritizing critical Design View specific workflows and bring them to Live View.
You will see new innovative features coming out in the forthcoming releases. We welcome your feedback on the road-map.
I hope this post gives you visibility on where Dreamweaver is going.
Best regards,
Rajnish Bharti
Senior Product Manager
Does anyone working on this project user Dreamweaver ???????
I can tell you that anyone using 14.1 is not increasing the numbers of live view users, actually quite the opposite, how can someone buy into a tool to create a design when the tool is broken~ I have to call shenanigans on that statement,
the quick entry on responsive design is purely dismissive of a huge glaring zit on the nose problem with dreamweaver in it's current form. This thread did not drive the point home , and apparently Subhadeep didn't bother escalating this to the devs. though I never thought he would~~
OK anyone else~~ WTF does this mean "We understand there has been some concern related to Design View's future. We are working on prioritizing critical Design View specific workflows and bring them to Live View."
Is it to much to have our issues directly addressed, rather than to be dismissed with half answers, or no answer at all , have out support concerns given to Subhadeep~
I now understand how a unwanted step child feels, Thanks Adobe
Does it bother anyone that we have been posting in this thread and yet Nancy is the one to bring links to surveys and future plans to us~ Subhadeep didnt even bother
Rage~~
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188. Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
Mark.Kirkeby Nov 25, 2014 7:53 AM (in response to Mark.Kirkeby)so this thread has been going nearly 2 months, little shorter than when paying adobe clients were downgraded to paying alpha testers
We finally get this
185. Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
Preran Nov 24, 2014 2:30 PM (in response to Nancy O.)
To add to what Nancy said, this discussion here has provided us with insights into issues that you are facing with Live view for Fluid Grid Layouts.
OMFG are you serious right now, so how long exactly are we supposed to attempt work with broken software
Preran , did you read this thread??????~ are you OK with us paying for alpha/beta level software~
Do you think that this is an acceptable way to treat long term customers?
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189. Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
Jon Fritz II Nov 25, 2014 8:02 AM (in response to Mark.Kirkeby)You do not need to work with broken software. Download and work with the June release of CC 2014 until 2014.1 is finished...
PC: http://download.adobe.com/pub/adobe/dreamweaver/win/cc/Dreamweaver_14_LS20.exe
Mac: http://download.adobe.com/pub/adobe/dreamweaver/mac/cc/Dreamweaver_14_LS20.dmg
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190. Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
Preran Nov 25, 2014 10:01 AM (in response to Mark.Kirkeby)Hi Mark,
To add to what Jon said, unlike in the past, there are previous versions available when you run into issues with the latest version. I am a Dreamweaver and CC user myself, and I find the current system to work for me pretty well. I get new features and bug fixes periodically unlike in the past where I had to wait almost a year and half for those.
To call the software Beta versions is, in my opinion, very unfair. In a rapidly changing environment, CC allows users to keep abreast of the latest standards and workflows. It also provides us with the flexibility to incorporate user requests, quick fixes, and course corrections, as and when required.
Like I said, we are monitoring this discussion for feedback, and are looking at the issues that we need to fix in the next release. The roadmap clearly has responsive design on its mind.
Thanks,
Preran
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191. Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
Tropical Soul Nov 25, 2014 1:29 PM (in response to Jon Fritz II)John
You are correct but then doesn't it follow from that that we should not have to pay for broken software ??
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192. Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
Nancy O. Nov 25, 2014 2:01 PM (in response to Tropical Soul)What's buggy to some people isn't necessarily a problem for others, though. It really depends on your workflow.
Both Mavericks and Yosemite went through the rigors of beta testing, still the public releases came out with significant bugs. Microsoft is no different. I think the rush to get upgrades out the door has resulted in many things not being fixed at launch. Such is life in the 21st century.
Nancy O.
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193. Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
Mark.Kirkeby Nov 25, 2014 2:54 PM (in response to Nancy O.)Nancy O. wrote:
What's buggy to some people isn't necessarily a problem for others, though. It really depends on your workflow.
Both Mavericks and Yosemite went through the rigors of beta testing, still the public releases came out with significant bugs. Microsoft is no different. I think the rush to get upgrades out the door has resulted in many things not being fixed at launch. Such is life in the 21st century.
Nancy O.
Nancy,
This thread is about fluid grid design, you are completely wrong it is buggy for everyone,
If a major point release is not ready for public use, it should be used as alpha/beta level releases , not production release , that is the point that I have attempted to make over and over,
A production level release was put out, IT IS NOT working software~ Microsoft is no different , when they finally arrive at a patched debugged system , the start on next crap release,
Instead of paying for a copy of Dreamweaver like I have in the past, I got on board with CC, I am not a beta tester, I am a paying client, I have a machine with Windows 10 on it, Microsoft did not charge me to be a beta tester~
If I am to beta test, I want my subscription cost suspended until a stable release is available
There is nothing that you can say/post that will make 2014.1 right,
////////////////////////////////////////
Preran,
This is the first near acceptable answer that has been posted here, I agree that many of my statements may have been unfair , I own that, but I hope you understand the level of frustration that that many design professionals have expressed in here,
my comments were meant to incite a response, and unfortunately until now nothing of substance has been presented to us as a group of concerned users, all any of us want, in your words "to incorporate user requests, quick fixes, and course corrections"
that is what we have all been saying, but you must agree that there has been nothing quick at all , I have had to downgrade my software to keep my production active.
From Staff we have only had Subhadeep soft pedaling requesting beta feedback (requesting documents and examples), I did not make up my comments about beta, I have beta tested software for 20 years , and Subhadeep asked for beta level feedback from this forum, fair maybe not, honest~~~
I do look forward to hearing from development, but come on give us something, until the links nancy a non staff member posted , this thread had no official recognition from or by adobe~~ I want nothing more than to stop my trolling of this forum , and just get back to work, in 15 years of use of Dreamweaver I have never posted in official forums before, I SO WANT to just get back to that..
nuff said~~
Preran Nov 25, 2014 10:01 AM (in response to Mark Kirkeby)
Hi Mark,
To add to what Jon said, unlike in the past, there are previous versions available when you run into issues with the latest version. I am a Dreamweaver and CC user myself, and I find the current system to work for me pretty well. I get new features and bug fixes periodically unlike in the past where I had to wait almost a year and half for those.
To call the software Beta versions is, in my opinion, very unfair. In a rapidly changing environment, CC allows users to keep abreast of the latest standards and workflows. It also provides us with the flexibility to incorporate user requests, quick fixes, and course corrections, as and when required.
Like I said, we are monitoring this discussion for feedback, and are looking at the issues that we need to fix in the next release. The roadmap clearly has responsive design on its mind.
Thanks,
Preran
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194. Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
Nancy O. Nov 25, 2014 4:45 PM (in response to Mark.Kirkeby)Mark,
I get that from where you sit, 2014.1 may seem like an incomplete beta product. But it isn't. Given that this release doesn't quite work for a select group does not render the entire product useless for everyone. Otherwise everyone would be complaining about it in the forums. As a Cloud member, you still have complete versions of CS6, CC13 and CC 2014 at your finger tips. So you're not exactly paying for something and getting nothing in return.
Requests for constructive feedback are the only logical way developers can arrive at relevant fixes. You're new to the forums and so you may not be familiar with this historic precedent. I can assure you, the forums & bug reporting form has always asked people to provide relevant crash logs, details, source files, etc... to help the team recreate a reported problem in their lab. Ray and others here have demonstrated an open willingness to cooperate with the Development Team. It's unfortunate you don't share a similar attitude. I get that you're unhappy, Mark, but p*ss & vinegar goes just so far. After a while it merely stinks & repels people.
Nancy O.
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195. Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
Mark.Kirkeby Nov 25, 2014 5:09 PM (in response to Nancy O.)Nancy O. wrote:
Mark,
I get that from where you sit, 2014.1 may seem like an incomplete beta product. But it isn't. Given that this release doesn't quite work for a select group does not render the entire product useless for everyone. Otherwise everyone would be complaining about it in the forums. As a Cloud member, you still have complete versions of CS6, CC13 and CC 2014 at your finger tips. So you're not exactly paying for something and getting nothing in return.
Requests for constructive feedback are the only logical way developers can arrive at relevant fixes. You're new to the forums and so you may not be familiar with this historic precedent. I can assure you, the forums & bug reporting form has always asked people to provide relevant crash logs, details, source files, etc... to help the team recreate a reported problem in their lab. Ray and others here have demonstrated an open willingness to cooperate with the Development Team. It's unfortunate you don't share a similar attitude. I get that you're unhappy, Mark, but p*ss & vinegar goes just so far. After a while it merely stinks & repels people.
Nancy O.
Nancy,
As I have said I am using an OLD version, your yourself do not even use this version that this thread is about, so you are overwhelmingly unqualified to speak on this topic.
please cease with the deconstructive replies , they are unnecessary, you have said nothing of value here, and this thread and your replies are only about increasing your post count,,,,,
just stop~~
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196. Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
Tom_Flannery Nov 25, 2014 5:33 PM (in response to Nancy O.)I will add my voice to the conversation. I have been following this thread and find like many others that the new version is not something I can use. I am another that is paying for a product that I cannot use. I thought my system was broke until I found this thread.
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197. Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
worker69 Nov 25, 2014 6:54 PM (in response to Mark.Kirkeby)Mark, I couldn't agree with you more to the point where we have taken Dreamweaver out of next years syllabus, it won't even be mentioned to hundreds of students. It is all very good for Nancy to accuse you of PXXXX and vinegar where all she does is peddle Adobe hyperbole and in my case and the case of others, Adobe risk losing business until they get their act together. If I was the President of Adobe I would PXXX the apologists off, they are doing nothing for the Adobe image. DW 2014.1 is broken... admit it or suffer the consequences.
Nancy and others of your ilk, I wont be back in this forum for about another year (I have had it up to pussy's bow-tie) and will be like many others, sitting back until someone does something instead of letting the likes of Nancy arrange the deck chairs on the Titanic.
May you all have a very happy Christmas.
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198. Re: Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
Nancy O. Nov 26, 2014 12:02 PM (in response to Mark.Kirkeby)your replies are only about increasing your post count
Post counts are meaningless. I've helped more people in the past week than you have in your entire time here. At least I contribute something positive to the community. I can't see where your remarks have contributed anything but negativity and ill-will towards the development team. How is that to be construed except to expose you for the troll that you are. And this is further evidenced by your profile photo. How can anyone take this troll seriously?
I am using an OLD version
By your own fuzzy logic, that makes YOU overwhelmingly unqualified to post here. Ok, good. Have a nice Thanksgiving troll and don't choke on your dinner.
Nancy O.
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199. Re: Re: Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?
Mark.Kirkeby Nov 26, 2014 12:28 PM (in response to Nancy O.)owww,
I would not wish choking on you , I hope only that you have a pleasant holiday









