7 Replies Latest reply on Dec 16, 2014 9:11 AM by cc_merchant

    Please help. 3 workstations need central NAS/SAN

    Jackson_Row Level 1

      I've never had experience with NAS or servers so I appreciate any help as this is a world of so many variables!

      Basically we have 3 heavy premiere pro workstations (multicams editing etc) and looking to better redundancy among better performance.

      3 workstations editing 1080 50p compressed 5D/Sony NX5 footage at the same time, let's say when editing multicams each project could be have up to 4 videos playing back simultaneously

      4 streams x 3 editors = 12 clips playing back simultaneously
      Say it's 28 Mbit/s per 108050p stream= 336Mbits/s (42MB/s) not counting overhead. (Correct me if I'm wrong)

      How much throughput does the NAS\MicroServer/SAN have to have? I'm assuming computers will be connected via Ethernet?

      Now to the next point, which kind of raid configurations should I be going with? 0, 3, 10?


      I believe 7200rpm HDDs would be the minimum. Which are GOOD value for money HDDs these days, say in 4tb since 6tb are still overpriced/MB

      I have noticed an average of 8TB being used at any given time these days.


      Appreciate the help guys

        • 1. Re: Please help. 3 workstations need central NAS/SAN
          cc_merchant Level 4

          Which are GOOD value for money HDDs these days, say in 4tb since 6tb are still overpriced/MB

          HGST Ultrastar 7K4000 and Seagate Constellation ES.3

           

          Say it's 28 Mbit/s per 108050p stream= 336Mbits/s (42MB/s) not counting overhead. (Correct me if I'm wrong)

          That is a huge and irrealistic oversimplification. If the math were correct, all 4 camera multicam editing sessions would run with jerkiness or lost frames from a single HDD. That is not true. I guess you need at least 500 MB/s transfer rate on each machine for decent editing, considering we have 3 heavy premiere pro workstations

           

          The only way to edit 4 streams of HD material effectively would require at least teamed 10 GbE connections or even better. 1 GbE is way too slow. A 1 GbE connection has a sustained transfer rate about equal to a single FW800 disk. Nobody, and I mean Nobody in his right mind would even consider editing HD material off a single FW800 disk., let alone a multicam session.

          • 2. Re: Please help. 3 workstations need central NAS/SAN
            ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

            The real problem with sharing media on networking with storage is the offload done by the network adapters especially the onboard to the CPU. The network adapters onboard have limited caching and processing and the storage units often have a single quad core Xeon with less than 8GB of ram. That is fine for simple file sharing but not good  for multiple editors working directly from the network storage realtime. 1 normally gets good performance while the others may or may not. When 1 is rendering the realtime performance of the other 2 suffer greatly. Adobe has a rather high priority for rendering. This is where a Server often performs far better for direct centralized storage. The combination of actual SAS raid controllers and Server adapter cards takes a significant load for multiple simultaneous users of the system. Along with this you have more control over the CPU and ram configuration. This is not saying you cant get this done with the NAS units. You can if your willing to workflow some things specifically such as rendering when the realtime tasks for the day are done. Also AE is not something you want to run from shared storage. The added latency of the network effects the ram preview performance. I suggest you take that locally if you work every thing else from network storage. 10Gbe is really better suited for this btw as mentioned. The cards handle the loan better and the bandwidth is far greater than Gbit. This makes the CPU offload far easier to deal with  and at a lower latency.


            Eric

            ADK

            • 3. Re: Please help. 3 workstations need central NAS/SAN
              Jackson_Row Level 1

              Thank you for your help guys, sorry it's taken me a while to reply. We have been discussing here which route to take

               

              The biggest concern for us is redundancy. Not just against hardware failure but also against fire, water, and theft.

              Been looking hard for fireproof server cabinets but for some reason, they do not exist! I'm guessing because of the need for ventilation and cable routing.

               

              SO, now we're considering buying a NAS/SAN that we don't necessarily work off realtime but instead work on media stored locally on the workstations and then synchronizing daily or weekly to the NAS that will be stored in a fireproof safe somewhere on site.

               

              Inconveniences there are:

               

              - synchronizing isn't as frequent as we'd like.

              - because it's stored in a safe, no cable routing is possible, so we'd have to manually open/close the safe connect/disconnect power and Ethernet cables.

               

              But then again it makes me think, in case of a fire God forbid, what would the internal temperature of the safe get up to? And would the hardware inside withstand it even though power is off?

               

              I hate that we deal with such big data! Otherwise I would move to the cloud in a heartbeat!

               

              What are your thoughts? Any light bulb moments?

              • 4. Re: Please help. 3 workstations need central NAS/SAN
                cc_merchant Level 4

                Basically, if fire is such a consideration, you have a number of possible approaches:

                 

                1. Improve fire prevention in the buidling (no smoking, no cooking, new electrical cabling, no static electricity causing carpeting, etc.)
                2. Improve fire detection in the building (smoke detectors, CO detection, etc.)
                3. Improve fire extinction in the building (sprinkler installation, automatic sealing doors, automatic link to the FD, etc.)
                4. Keep a copy of the data on the NAS/SAN at a different location.
                • 5. Re: Please help. 3 workstations need central NAS/SAN
                  ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                  I have atleast 1 client that duplicates 1 NAS to another in another location. I would suggest you take a look at Retrospect. See about that and if that will give you what you want.

                   

                  Eric

                  ADK

                  • 6. Re: Please help. 3 workstations need central NAS/SAN
                    Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

                    Going back away (long before Adobe Premiere existed) we had halon gas protected server rooms.  The halon technology might be obsolete now days but there are alternative Electronic-Safe fire suppression systems

                    • 7. Re: Please help. 3 workstations need central NAS/SAN
                      plaza_carpet_cleaning Level 1

                      So I've been doing storage A LONG time.  Here is what you need to do.

                       

                      1. Make sure you have a good 1 GB switch.  Look for something that support jumbo frames.

                      2. Buy yourself a Synology DS1815 or something similar.  The key is to make sure you can aggregate your network adapters.  Basically its just a way to take the network adapters and combine them into a single large network adapter.  Think 4 times the bandwidth.

                      3. When you buy disks for the NAS its really tempting to buy super large drives.  The problem here is that as the disk is only so fast.  So as you add more data the access speed to that data is the limiting factor.  I would recommend going with smaller drives.  If it were me, I would go with either enterprise drives like Seagate Cheetah 15K.7 ST3600057SS 600GB 16MB Cache SAS 6Gb/s 3.5" Internal Enterprise Hard Drive Bare Drive - Newegg.com or with SSD drives like http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA0ZX2C64618.  Again if you go SSD make sure you get enterprise grade drives.  WIth lots or reads and writes you want something that is going to last.  These are not cheap drives by any means but they are very robust.

                       

                      4. For DR / Backup.  You could buy another synology and replicate your data to another location.  You could use cheap drives in your backup device since the idea is for data backup.

                       

                      Anyway, good luck and I hope this helps.

                      • 8. Re: Please help. 3 workstations need central NAS/SAN
                        cc_merchant Level 4

                        Make sure you have a good 1 GB switch.

                        I have never heard of a 1 GB switch. 1 Gb switches are way too slow, you would need at least teamed 10 Gb connections.

                         

                        The most obvious problem however is the lack of file-locking under Windows 7 and 8, making it a huge hassle to safeguard effective progress of the editing and very error prone.

                         

                        The Synology DS1815 is far too slow with the available 4x 1 Gb connections and the external eSATA or USB3 for effective multicam work.

                        You may have a basic NAS solution with 2 x 10 Gb in the form of the WD Arkeia R620 20T, see WESTERN DIGITAL WD ARKEIA R620 20TB USABLE LICS 2U SAS SCSI 24TB RAW WORLDWIDE - WDBJFN0240MBK-WESN / PCMicroStore.com -… but still one faces the absence of a file-locking mechanism.