10 Replies Latest reply: Nov 16, 2007 11:39 PM by Angell EYE RSS

    Is it just me or ....

      I have been working with DW CS3, PHP, and MySQL for the past few months. I'm not new to programming or tools, and have used many databases extensively in corporate environments. I am just finding that using DW is a very prickly affair. Any small tweak I make can break functionality. This is just a general observation and question. Maybe it's just the PHP environment in general, I don't know. I just felt I needed to see what others are seeing. My latest angst I just posted and still not seeing how adding a simple recordset is preventing pages from appearing (suddenly). Just when I think I can develop really fast with DW I get blindsided with small non-obvious things that cost days at a time. Arrggghhh.
        • 1. Re: Is it just me or ....
          Newsgroup_User Community Member
          I think Macromedia/Adobe are so busy adding "new" features that they lose
          site of what the core functions of DW are and don't bother to work on them
          (if at all) to improve them.


          "davidbarrackphoto" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
          news:fhhvej$i69$1@forums.macromedia.com...
          >I have been working with DW CS3, PHP, and MySQL for the past few months.
          >I'm


          • 2. Re: Is it just me or ....
            So my feeling is not isolated to myself? Today, for some bizarre reason, any recordset I touch causes the page to display blank. I'm about to panic. I've finally almost completed this application and now this.
            • 3. Re: Is it just me or ....
              Newsgroup_User Community Member
              davidbarrackphoto wrote:
              > Any small tweak I make can break functionality. This is just a
              > general observation and question. Maybe it's just the PHP environment in
              > general, I don't know.

              Dreamweaver makes extensive use of JavaScript in the background to
              display values in the Property inspector and other panels. JavaScript is
              also used to populate the Server Behaviors and Bindings panels. The
              bigger and more complex your page, the more strain you put on that
              JavaScript infrastructure.

              I don't know if there's a physical limit to the number of lines of code
              or elements that you can have on a page, but Dreamweaver isn't designed
              as a coding environment for heavy duty applications. The server
              behaviors are excellent for rapid prototyping or for building pages of
              medium complexity. For anything more ambitious, you should either be
              working in Code view or using a dedicated PHP IDE, such as PhpED or
              EclipsePHP.

              --
              David Powers, Adobe Community Expert
              Author, "The Essential Guide to Dreamweaver CS3" (friends of ED)
              Author, "PHP Solutions" (friends of ED)
              http://foundationphp.com/
              • 4. Re: Is it just me or ....
                Newsgroup_User Community Member
                >I think Macromedia/Adobe are so busy adding "new" features that they lose
                >site of what the core functions of DW are and don't bother to work on them
                >(if at all) to improve them.

                I think [most any large software corporation] are so busy adding "new"
                features that they lose site of what the core functions of DW are and don't
                bother to work on them (if at all) to improve them.

                ;o)

                -Darrel


                • 5. Re: Is it just me or ....
                  Do you suggest to use one of the PHP IDEs you mention in conjunction with or in lieu of Dreamweaver? I have been picking up DW because I thought it could handle both the design and implementation of a web site. Even one that is fairly involved. I am finding that with DW I have to walk on eggshells and hope to X&*@ that some change I make will not result in a page showing up blank or getting a dreaded exclamation mark because I burped too loud or something.
                  • 6. Re: Is it just me or ....
                    Newsgroup_User Community Member
                    Your best bet is to use a PHP IDE to do the development and DW for the
                    design.

                    "davidbarrackphoto" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                    news:fhie9l$7th$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                    > Do you suggest to use one of the PHP IDEs you mention in conjunction with
                    > or in
                    > lieu of Dreamweaver? I have been picking up DW because I thought it could
                    > handle both the design and implementation of a web site. Even one that is
                    > fairly involved. I am finding that with DW I have to walk on eggshells
                    > and
                    > hope to X&*@ that some change I make will not result in a page showing up
                    > blank
                    > or getting a dreaded exclamation mark because I burped too loud or
                    > something.
                    >


                    • 7. Re: Is it just me or ....
                      Newsgroup_User Community Member
                      davidbarrackphoto wrote:
                      > Do you suggest to use one of the PHP IDEs you mention in conjunction with or in
                      > lieu of Dreamweaver?

                      It depends entirely on what you want to do. One of the problems with
                      many people who use Dreamweaver is that they have the mistaken belief
                      that Dreamweaver "handles everything for you". Wrong. Dreamweaver is a
                      tool like a sculptor's chisel or a plasterer's trowel. Used well, it
                      works brilliantly. Used with insufficient knowledge, it can get you into
                      deep trouble.

                      That's not to say that Dreamweaver is perfect. There are definitely
                      things that could be improved. But if you understand the code that is
                      being created, you'll get far more out of it.

                      To get back to your original question, though, I use both Dreamweaver
                      and PhpED. Dreamweaver is ideal for working on projects where design is
                      the main focus. PhpED, on the other hand, is useless for design, but
                      it's brilliant for working with complex hand-coded applications.

                      Understand the tools you're working with, and choose the right one for
                      the job.

                      > I am finding that with DW I have to walk on eggshells and
                      > hope to X&*@ that some change I make will not result in a page showing up blank
                      > or getting a dreaded exclamation mark because I burped too loud or something.

                      It sounds as though you're relying too heavily on Dreamweaver's
                      automatic code generation. Interestingly, the Adobe Press book on
                      ColdFusion goes out of its way to teach readers *not* to use Dreamweaver
                      server behaviors. This isn't an admission by Adobe that there's a
                      problem with the automatically generated code. The point being made is
                      that you should understand the code that's being generated on your
                      behalf. Use the automatically generated code where appropriate, but hand
                      code where it makes more sense.

                      Probably not the response you were hoping for, but - as many have
                      pointed out here - the marketing hype about any software taking care of
                      everything for you is often misleading. It's like using an electronic
                      calculator. Without an understanding of basic mathematics, you have no
                      way of realizing that the answer is wrong if you accidentally hit the
                      wrong key.

                      --
                      David Powers, Adobe Community Expert
                      Author, "The Essential Guide to Dreamweaver CS3" (friends of ED)
                      Author, "PHP Solutions" (friends of ED)
                      http://foundationphp.com/
                      • 8. Re: Is it just me or ....
                        David - Thank for your insight. When you use PhpEd, do you use it in conjunction with DW, meaning you do the design and prototyping and then move to PhpEd with the stubs from DW? I'm not sure why DW doesn't put most of their code in includes so it's clear what's their stuff versus added by others. I'm starting now to take a look at PhpEd.
                        • 9. Re: Is it just me or ....
                          Newsgroup_User Community Member
                          davidbarrackphoto wrote:
                          > David - Thank for your insight. When you use PhpEd, do you use it in
                          > conjunction with DW, meaning you do the design and prototyping and then move to
                          > PhpEd with the stubs from DW?

                          For one or two recordsets on a page, I stick with DW. For heavy duty PHP
                          coding, such as the creation or editing of classes, I use PhpED.

                          > I'm not sure why DW doesn't put most of their
                          > code in includes so it's clear what's their stuff versus added by others.

                          I think that the reason is probably historical. Originally, ASP, PHP,
                          and ColdFusion were regarded as a way of embedding a small amount of
                          dynamic functionality into a web page. The concept of separating the
                          business code from the presentation has spread more recently. Because of
                          the way that Dreamweaver has developed, splitting the two would involve
                          a lot of work. However, the XSL Transformation server behavior
                          introduced in DW8 does move most of the code into external files.

                          --
                          David Powers, Adobe Community Expert
                          Author, "The Essential Guide to Dreamweaver CS3" (friends of ED)
                          Author, "PHP Solutions" (friends of ED)
                          http://foundationphp.com/
                          • 10. Re: Is it just me or ....
                            Angell EYE
                            I used to work primarily with ASP and I now work with PHP. I have noticed that the PHP enviornment is much more "picky" than the ASP enviornment with DW. It's also a whole lot slower. When I'm working with pages that have insert behaviors or something like that, everytime I click on a form field it has to connect to the database and update. I find it quicker when I need to edit forms to remove the insert behavior, make all my changes, then re-add the behavior. Never had to do petty stuff like that on the ASP side.

                            As for blank pages I tend to get this sometimes but I've found that if you close the page and re-open it it's fine again. That can be a scary thing to do...just make sure you have a nice backup set on hand at all times. This is a good idea regardless.