14 Replies Latest reply on Jun 16, 2015 5:28 PM by RoninEdits

    Who has smooth 4K scrubbing on compressed material?

    SiliconPixel Level 1

      Have any of you got ultra smooth scrubbing in Premiere Pro CC (latest)? I mean scrubbing in source monitor or by dragging the CTI on a timeline with native highly compressed 4K .MOV or .MP4 files like those directly from the DJI Inspire 1 with no transcoding and no effects applied.

       

      I have a couple of pretty beefy systems although they're getting a little old now at 2-3 years old. HD and HD Prores, XAVC etc I can edit and scrub ultra smoothly but the Inspire 4K is fairly choppy on scrubbing and that's really slowing me down. 4K playback is fine though.

       

      My main edit PC has:

      i7 core X980 (extreme) 6 core with HT at 3.33GHz

      24 GB RAM

      GTX680

      Samsung 840 Pro's for OS and cache drives

      RAID array's for footage drives etc

       

      So wondering if upgrading any of this is going to get me anywhere like the smooth performance I'd like (same as HD scrubbing).

       

      Guess I really need to try an up-to-the-minute PC build to see how smooth it is. Would like to see any vids of smooth 4K scrubbing.

       

      Paul.

        • 1. Re: Who has smooth 4K scrubbing on compressed material?
          RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

          not sure too many of the people here are using the dji inspire 1. the website says its h264 at 60mbps? h264 is a distribution codec, it takes alot more power for the computer to decompress and edit in premiere. if you want to try, you could transcode the footage to Avid DNxHR  and see if the performance of the computer is acceptable, before having to upgrade. you can also use windows resource monitor and GPU-Z  to monitor your computers hardware, and see if perhaps you just need to upgrade a part or two. the new high end i7's will require a new motherboard and ddr4 memory to upgrade your system, they are also around 75% faster.  if the video card is the weak link, the new ones are 2x as fast. h264's shouldn't place a big demand on the drives, but you can check in the windows resource monitor, and if needed try testing some clips on a ssd.

          • 2. Re: Who has smooth 4K scrubbing on compressed material?
            JFPhoton Level 3

            ....your CPU is still a powerful six core, twelve thread i7....even if a little old. It can be overclocked on air up to 4.5 Ghz....some have achieved 4.9 Ghz on water.  With the overclock, your performance should improve.

             

            ...the 680 was a good card, too......for 4K it has been advised here to have at least 4 GB of DDR5 video memory on your GPU. With the release of the NVidia 980ti, the 970 with 4GB memory is now available for cheaper......you may want to consider one......I think you may be able to run BOTH of your  GPUs with Premiere to increase performance of SOME operations, ( non-SLI, of course), IF they are each using the same driver. Bill Gehrke on this forum has had THREE GPUs going in his test rig.

             

            ...it appears your storage speed SHOULD be good from what you describe. You definitely want to visit the PPBM8.com website to test your machine on Bill's benchmarking test for PPro. You can compare your results with other machines and identify any bottlenecks you may have.

             

            ...with your current rig properly tuned and a little overclocked, you should be able to scrub most compressed 4K easily......my LAPTOP actually can handle some 4K  with only a 765m GPU that only has 2 GB video memory ....the CPU is a four core i7...the Haswell 4700HQ

             

            ...of course, the version of PPro has a bearing on this....the newest version handles 4K much easier and also allows for more memory to be used by PPro compared to all the previous versions.....with CPU overclocking and adding an NVidia 970 GPU, I would think you would be OK.......for NOW...

            • 3. Re: Who has smooth 4K scrubbing on compressed material?
              Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

              You need to go to the Premiere Pro BenchMark (PPBM) to get the benchmark

              • 4. Re: Who has smooth 4K scrubbing on compressed material?
                SiliconPixel Level 1

                thanks guys! Sorry for the delay, been on my aerial video permissions course.

                 

                I'll have a look at all of that. I've not run the PPBM for a while so will check that too.

                 

                Will report back...

                 

                Cheers.

                • 5. Re: Who has smooth 4K scrubbing on compressed material?
                  ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                  If you want seemless scrubbing then Ronin is correct. You need to transcode the AVC media to DNxHR which is I-frame based and doesn't rely on referencing other frames.

                   

                  Eric

                  ADK

                  • 6. Re: Who has smooth 4K scrubbing on compressed material?
                    SiliconPixel Level 1

                    Ah, I've been looking for something like that - but where do I get the DNxHR CODEC for Windows from?

                    • 7. Re: Who has smooth 4K scrubbing on compressed material?
                      RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                      if only someone would have linked to that from the start...

                      • 8. Re: Who has smooth 4K scrubbing on compressed material?
                        SiliconPixel Level 1

                        OK, OK enough sarcasm - didn't notice your link before. Thanks for that, very cool!

                        • 9. Re: Who has smooth 4K scrubbing on compressed material?
                          SiliconPixel Level 1

                          So how are you transcoding to DNxHR as as far as I can see, there's no way to encode to DNxHR from within Premiere? I presume the windows CODEC's are playback only?

                          • 10. Re: Who has smooth 4K scrubbing on compressed material?
                            RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                            the avid dnxhd/r codec pack installs as a quicktime codec. it will allow adobe programs via quicktime to read and export to these codecs. you need to choose the quicktime format, then select the avid dnxhr codec. if you have access to adobe media encoder, its a dedicated transcoder and export program. you can make a preset in AME for your videos and apply it to all of them and it will transcode them all. if you dont have access to adobe media encoder, you can select all of the original media in the premiere project bin, right click and choose export media. then choose the avid dnxhr for premiere to transcode to that.

                            • 11. Re: Who has smooth 4K scrubbing on compressed material?
                              skornreich

                              Correct me if I am wrong but  if you transcode using dnxhd codec which requires QuickTime are you then limited to only accessing 4GB because QuickTime is still 32 bit so basically which would defeat having all the extra ram and 64bit OS.

                               

                              On a separate note I just upgraded my video card from a GTX 760 to a GTX Titan with 6gb of ram, to be honest I don't see much of an improvement at all still choppy playback, and I am running a 6 Core Xeon CPU, 64GB Ram, Area 1883X raid controller with 8 2GB SAS drives configured as a Raid 3 as PPBM recommends. Latest version of Première Pro CC.

                               

                              I work with mostly 1080P 60 AVHCD video from my aging Sony NEX5N

                              • 12. Re: Who has smooth 4K scrubbing on compressed material?
                                RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                                premiere calls quicktime via "adobe qt32 server.exe". that will be limited to 4gb, and would limit the speed of decoding and encoding quicktime files. but it should not place any limit on the rest of the functions of premiere as its processing and rendering. while using avid's MXF container would get around the quicktime limitation, unfortunately premiere has no support for MXF dnxhr at this time. your 1080p 60fps footage could be transcoded to mxf dnxhd, which is supported by premiere/ame.

                                 

                                without knowing exactly which 6 core xeon it is, i cant say if thats a good cpu or not... you can use windows resource monitor and GPU-Z  to see what hardware might be holding back premiere. you can also try transcoding the avchd to mxf using ame to see if that improves performance. dnxhd should be alot more edit friendly and take less cpu/gpu resources to read, but larger files can place more a bit more demand on the disk drives.

                                • 13. Re: Who has smooth 4K scrubbing on compressed material?
                                  skornreich Level 1

                                  Thanks for the tip.

                                  I ended up using Media Encoder to transcode from AVHCD to DNXHD no problem worked great. Smooth playback now with effects applied

                                  Am I losing any IQ from the conversion process? I assume DNXHD is a good format to work in.

                                  • 14. Re: Who has smooth 4K scrubbing on compressed material?
                                    RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                                    dnxhd is suppose to be visually lossless, meaning yes some information may be lost, but shouldn't be noticeable to the eye. there are several dnxhd/r options, which offer higher bitrate/quality, including up to 4:4:4 chroma sampling. i believe for avchd you dont need 4:4:4, so there wont be any benefit trying to convert it to 4:4:4, but you can test the different bitrates and choose one to your liking. dnxhd and prores were made to be edited with, so yeah, they make nle's happy.