RAW/DNG handling on Samsung Galaxy S6 (LR doesn't see the RAW file)

[Martin_Hapl]

I'm trying to import RAW pictures from my mobile phone (Samsung Galaxy S6 Edge+) into Lightroom. Although I thought that this will be pretty straightforward, it is unfortunately not the case.

The thing is, that neither Lightroom, nor Lightroom mobile sees the RAW (DNG) variant of the picture after it is taken (including Auto Add in LR Mobile). Both offer only JPEG. However, when I switch phone to MTP and access it with some utility, I can see that the DNG file is there. It just seems to be invisible (and totally disconnected from the JPEG file, as you can delete the JPEG using Gallery application, but DNG still sits there).

Interestingly, when you delete the JPEG, Lightroom mobile suddenly sees the DNG file, and can synchronize it (and Auto Add suddenly works). However, desktop Lightroom sees nothing.

Is there anything that can be done to make this working better? Remembering which JPEGs I have to delete and syncing via LR Mobile is sort of painful.

Thanks!

[DdeGannes]

I am not seeing that camera supported on the Adobe list of supported camera models.

Cameras supported by Camera Raw

[Todd Shaner]

I believe you need Lollipop 5.1.1 update installed.

http://techweep.com/samsung-galaxy-s6-how-good-photos-to-dng-raw/

[DdeGannes]

Sorry but I am not up to date on Phone Cameras, and I have not purchased a Lollipop in decades .

[Martin_Hapl]

Thanks, guys. I have 5.1.1 installed, and shooting RAW is not a problem. I can do that.

What I'm struggling with is the import dialog in Lightroom, which doesn't see the file. It is there, I can see it via regular file browser, but Lightroom desktop can't see it (via PTP). More details is in my original post.

Personally I don't think that this is a configuration issue. It is either bug in how Samsung provides list of files over PTP (only JPEGs are listed), or bug in Lightroom import (looks only for JPEGs when phone is connected).

[ssprengel]

The S6-series of phones never shows up as a drive letter, it only shows up as a device, and I suspect LR is asking the phone for Photos and the phone is serving up just JPGs.

The connection to the phone is slow enough and if LR had to scan every file in every folder to check what photos there were it would take much longer.

How are you switching the phone between PTP and MTP?

[Todd Shaner]

You might try sending ssprengel a PM since he's had some success with his Samsung Galaxy S6 phone as described here:

Re: Samsung Galaxy Note 5

There currently is no provision for downloading and synching edited images (Smart Previews & Device DNGs) from LR Mobile to LR Desktop using a direct connection (USB) or WiFi. As I understand it the only way to get images between LR Mobile and Desktop is via the Adobe Cloud.

  Can I import raw files transferred to my device using the Camera Connection Kit or Wi-Fi into Ligh...

Lightroom for mobile does not support direct raw file import using the Camera Connection Kit or Wi-Fi.

However, it should be possible to edit the phone/tablet camera DNG files with LR Mobile and then download them with a direct connection to your LR desktop with all of those edits saved in the DNG metadata. Sounds simple enough and Adobe now says phone/tablet DNG files are supported. So what's the deal?

  What file formats does Lightroom for mobile support?

Lightroom for mobile supports JPEG and PNG image formats captured by your mobile device camera and synchronizes them with Lightroom desktop. Lightroom for Android also supports the DNG image format. Lightroom for iPhone and iPad also supports the native video format captured by your mobile device camera and synchronizes them with Lightroom desktop.

The Lightroom desktop app supports file formats including raw images from virtually any DSLR camera, JPEG, and PNG files. Lightroom creates and syncs Smart Previews between your desktop and mobile device. Smart Previews are representations of your original images that allow you to make non-destructive edits—edits that allow you to always revert to your original image. The original files remain on your desktop and are not stored, synced, or used by Lightroom for mobile.

I've been unable to find any "official" Adobe User Reference information concerning how to process Android phone/tablet camera created DNG files with LR Mobile.

Direct downloading of camera DNG files from your phone into LR Desktop is a totally separate issue concerning the Android OS. Here's one article that may be helpful concerning getting the DNG files off your phone via USB:

Galaxy S6: how to enable raw DNG format and lower ISO after the Android 5.1.1 update

If you find out anything that may help others with the same issues please post it in a reply here. Thanks!

[ssprengel]

FWIW, I merely copy the DNGs/JPGs from my phone-device/Phone share to my hard-drive and do an Add Import.

[Todd Shaner]

ssprengel wrote:

FWIW, I merely copy the DNGs/JPGs from my phone-device/Phone share to my hard-drive and do an Add Import.

So you are able to see and edit the phone DNG files in LR Mobile? At this post the user claims moving the DNG files into a separate folder allows LR Mobile to recognize them: Re: Lightroom Mobile on Android and Galaxy Note 5 RAW files

[Martin_Hapl]

Thanks again, guys. Let me answer all the recent posts:

• The phone can be switched between MTP and PTP by tapping the notification about connected USB port in the notification area, which will bring up menu showing these two options. This is I believe pretty standard across Android devices (so far I've had couple of Nexuses, Moto X and Samsung, and it worked everywhere).
• I understand that I can't get pictures from LR mobile using USB cable (and I'm not trying to). I see LR mobile as a way how to avoid connecting a cable, actually ;-). The problem here (which seems to be a bug in LR mobile) is, that it doesn't show the DNG file until corresponding JPEG is deleted (please note that S6 is creating two files when shooting RAW: JPEG + DNG). I believe that deleting the JPEG file has the same effect as moving the DNG file into an entirely different folder. So yes, you can force LR mobile to recognize the RAW file, but it would be great if it could be done without playing with files on the filesystem.
• Yes, I can manually copy all DNGs from phone to some folder (using MTP), but that's not really comfortable. One can do that with files on memory card as well, yet nobody is doing it, as people rely on the Import dialog in Lightroom to do this job. So again, while it can be done, it is far from comfortable/easy.

To summarize it:

• There is a workaround how to retrieve RAW files from S6 on computer (manually copy it using MTP).
  • It would be great if LR Desktop (Import dialog) could find the file using the usual PTP connection
• There is a workaround for LR Mobile to recognize the RAW file (delete corresponding JPEG or move the file elsewhere)
  • It would be great if LR Mobile could find the file when the JPEG is in place (so there's no need to play with files on filesystem)

M.

[ssprengel]

This is what I see using LR Desktop with my Win7 PC connected to my S6 phone using MTP after taking some DNG+JPG shots of a speaker at my computer desk, where the Preview Unavailable files are the DNGs and the JPGs have visible previews:

Interestingly if I switch away from LR and back to the Import grid the two DNGs no longer have the checkmark nor the wording and I cannot re-enable them for import without switching to another source then back to the phone device and waiting several minutes for it to refresh all 4200 photos on my phone to the LR import panel.

After I refresh I can put checkmarks on all of them, again, and import them (along with one other JPG in the row above in the previous screenshot):

In LR Mobile I can see both the same 2 DNGs and 3 JPGs, although I am not going to try to import them since I already did so with LR Desktop:

What camera app are you using to create DNGs?

[Todd Shaner]

Steve, you still didn't answer my question, "So you are able to see and edit the phone DNG files in LR Mobile?" In addition are you able to 'Sync' LR Mobile and import the edited DNGs into the LR Desktop catalog?

Samsung has not provided the Lollipop 5.5.1 update for my Note Pro 12.2" WiFi tablet, only the AT&T and Verizon 4G models, so I'm not able to test this yet.

Have you found any LR Mobile documentation that discusses DNG support and how it works? The LR CC and 6 Reference manual was last updated on 4/20/2015 and does not mention anything about DNG support. It's great that the CC plan allows users to get new features without waiting for the next upgrade release, but Adobe also need to provide information concerning how to use these new features. Maybe I just can't find it on the Adobe website?

[ssprengel]

Using LR Mobile I can edit both JPGs and DNGs shot on my S6 phone with Snap Camera (Trial).

Here is the JPG with relative WB adjustments:

Here is the DNG with absolute WB adjustments:

[Guest]

Nice processing. Agreed with you, both Mobile and Lr CC do work as expected.

[Martin_Hapl]

Interesting. Thanks for trying.

It is no surprise to me that you can see DNGs over MTP - that works for me as well. The problem is, that I'm on MacOS, where MTP is not really supported by the system. Instead of appearing as a regular volume, some clunky Android File Transfer utility opens, and allows me copy stuff manually. If I want to make the phone available for LR, I need to switch to PTP, where the DNG is not visible. After some googling, I may try to SyncMate (Synchronize Mac: sync Mac with multiple devices | Mac synchronization‌), which is MTP driver for MacOS. That should allow me to mount S6 in MTP mode.

Concerning LR Mobile - I'm taking the RAW shots with the stock camera. What it does is that it creates two files with a same name, just extension is different. Is your AZCamera doing the same? I guess that it might give them slightly different name, so LRM detects both.

M.

[ssprengel]

By "stock camera" what app do you mean?  The one called "Camera" that came with my S6 doesn't have a way to change picture quality or format that I can see:

Not even in Pro mode:

AZ Camera takes two separate shots, one for the DNG one for the JPG with totally different exposure parameters and when you use flash it's a bit iffy where I think the flash doesn't illuminate both shots, the same, or misses one, I'm not sure.  The shots were similarly named but the timestamp in the DNG was totally off, not just local-TZ vs UTC, but the minute was also randomly off different for different photos, so impossible to correct with Adjust Capture Time in one-fell-swoop.  Also, if you rename the files with a date prefix, then it uses the uncorrected time, so totally off.

I am currently trying Snap Camera which costs $2.00 to disable the 10-second nag-screen without having to turn on Airplane mode when you first start it up or when it restarts due to a settings change or finishing an two-shot HDR merge.  To get the also-save-raw option you have to enable the new Camera2 API which is new with Lollipop 5.1.1.  Unfortunately enabling the Camera2 API turns off sharpening and a few other adjustments for the JPG so the JPGs with either camera are very soft so not at all like the native Samsung camera app produces:

I just installed Snap Camera, today, so there are probably things I don't understand about how it works, but its DNGs have a matching base filename and timestamp at least.  The pair are also two separate shots.  It does lock up from time-to-time when taking a shot, where I think it's when it's writing the raw after the jpg, and I have to use the task-manager button and click the X to end it, then start it back up.  It's possible I have my phone set some way or the camera app set some way that's causing the lock ups, so I may eventually be able to get around that.

As an example of how soft the accompanying JPGs are compared to the raws, either with AZ Camera or Snap Camera, here is a side-by-side in LR Compare mode.  BTW, the JPG is set to the highest "Best" quality:

[Martin_Hapl]

Yep, I mean the app called "Camera" on your screenshot. It actually can shoot RAW, just the switch that enables it is buried deep in the settings menu:

If you enable it, then simply switching to Pro mode starts saving JPEG+DNG.

I didn't care about the quality of the JPEG, so I haven't checked whether it is rendered correctly. I would assume that it is, since it is Samsung's native camera app, but I will give it a try later.

While writing this post, I have found one interesting thing. The DNG file is simply not visible even if I use the internal file browser (My Files), and display Pictures.

This is Pictures:

And this is the folder with pictures:

So this is most probably Samsung's problem after all - they simply don't treat DNG as picture

M.

[ssprengel]

So you have a different camera app on your S6 Edge.  Here are my settings:

When exploring DNGs I like to compare how much better or worse my LR DNG processing is to the phone JPGs. The native Camera app processing is always oversharpened but the NR is better along with HDR being effortless.

[Martin_Hapl]

I have Android 5.1.1, the phone is unlocked, European version.

I have already filed a support case with Samsung, asking them to take a look at why DNGs are not treated as pictures. I will update this thread as soon as I get some meaningful answer.

M.

[ssprengel]

I think Samsung may test things in the smaller European market before releasing to the US so that may be why your stock camera can already do raw.  What Kernel version are you running?  My 5.1.1. has had one or two updates, already, the last being a Sept 19 build that updated on Sept 29:

Looking at your screenshots, again, now I see that the Pictures view doesn't show the DNGs but the Device Storage root down to a specific folder shows all files including the DNGs.  That is actually how I'd expect the phone to work, since DNGs require decoding of the raw data to have an image to view.  The Gallery app or similar can't be expected to do that.  Something that would make sense would be for the DNG to have a preview image in it and the Gallery or other software show that so you could get an idea about what the photos are.  In other words I don't think it is a bug that the DNGs aren't visible in Image or Pictures view, but if they decide to enhance their photos apps to show a thumbnail, perhaps with the word RAW or at least DNG as a more international symbol on it that would be great.

The Snap Camera has a companion Snap Gallery app that automatically installs and it knows how to display a reduced-res thumbnail overlaid with the word RAW to easily tell which are the DNGs.  You get to the gallery app by swiping left in the camera app.

I uploaded one of the Snap Camera DNGs to the regex.info/exif.cgi website which shows embedded metadata and any embedded previews, and according to that website there is no embedded image preview, only the raw data.  The Snap Camera is either storing a thumbnail using a proprietary method or using the companion JPG to extract the thumbnail from.  Without there being an embedded thumbnail in the DNG I wouldn't expect a gallery app to show a thumbnail, so a fix might be to update the camera app to put a thumbnail in the DNG using a standard way so other programs can read it.  It's possible your camera app does, but mine doesn't seem to.

[Guest]

Quite right, Android 5.1.1 Lollipop specifically. Not Android 5.0.2 Lollipop. Lollipop is the name for the 5 series of the Android OS.

[Guest]

I have Android 5.1.1 on my S6, and am using paid version of Camera FV-5 from the Play Store. The Import in Lr CC 2015.2.1 sees my Galaxy S6, together with the DNG's, and Jpg's so I import as I would normally do with a DSLR.

[irishm22142400]

I used SideSync to simply drag files back and forth between my Note 5 (or any Samsung Android device) and your computer; in my case, my MacPro.     You have to load the SideSync App on your computer. SideSync | Samsung   It's kind of a gimmick , but it works and its kinda cool.    It's supposed to work on WiFi or USB, in my case, it didn't work on WiFi, but worked flawlessly on USB with my Galaxy Note 5.    I was able to transfer DNGs no problem.    I'm PO'd that Dropbox doesn't sync DNGs and only does the .jpg's, but SideSync is my workaround for now.

FYI, I used Snagit on the link below to capture a video of my screen connected to my phone....   cool for doing training videos.      In my case, I imported it into FCP X to edit; for this it small of a clip, it probably would've been easier to just edit it in Snagit

Hopefully Adobe will let me add a dropbox link:

Dropbox - SideSync File Transfer.mp4

[Brekel42]

Sorry to revive an old thread, but I thought this might be pertinent to anyone reading through this.

My Galaxy S6 is running marshmallow 6.0.1.  I also initially had an issue with LR not seeing DNG's in my camera folder created with the stock camera app, only the jps's, even though the file explorer shows they're there.

Interestingly though, if I re-boot the phone and check again, the dng's will appear and I can import them. If I then take a few more shots the jpg's immediately appear but again the new dng's don't unless I again reboot.

So rebooting solves the issue, but it is a pain to have to do this.

[ColdForest]

Interesting, I'm seeing the same thing with my Note 5. I was just checking the forum to report this as a problem (I wonder if this started happening in one of the more recent LR Mobile updates for Android?), but after reading your reply I decided to also try this. Sure enough, after rebooting my phone LRM is able to see all the previous DNGs. If I snap a new one and attempt to add it, only the JPEG variant shows up. Rebooting again results in the latest DNG appearing for import/upload. BTW, closing the LRM app (and restarting it without rebooting the phone) doesn't seem to be enough to get LRM to recognize the (since last reboot) DNGs.

Anyone else seeing this? Is Adobe listening and will this be fixed in the next update?