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How do I smooth out an edge of a selection using Quick Select and Refine Edges?

Contributor ,
Mar 07, 2012 Mar 07, 2012

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Im trying to get used to using Quick Select and Refine edges to mask out objects in my photos.

It works pretty well but Im still having trouble in some spots getting the edge to be a smooth curve.

How do you get the refine edge function to allow you to modify its edge so you can have a perfectly smooth edge?

Ive tried using the Refine Radius Tool and it just doesnt smooth it out completely.

What else can  try?

Screen shot 2012-03-07 at 1.10.41 PM.png

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

Deleted User
Mar 07, 2012 Mar 07, 2012

You will never get it smooth unless you have a HQ picture.  The pixels are discrete blocks and the lower the resolution the larger the pixels.  So as you try to refine the edge you can only do as good as the picture will allow.

Check out this video in masking and refine edge.  http://tv.adobe.com/watch/the-russell-brown-show/masking-basics-in-photoshop-cs5/

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Mar 07, 2012 Mar 07, 2012

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You will never get it smooth unless you have a HQ picture.  The pixels are discrete blocks and the lower the resolution the larger the pixels.  So as you try to refine the edge you can only do as good as the picture will allow.

Check out this video in masking and refine edge.  http://tv.adobe.com/watch/the-russell-brown-show/masking-basics-in-photoshop-cs5/

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Contributor ,
Mar 07, 2012 Mar 07, 2012

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Hi Curt,

I agree about the HQ picture.

Shouldnt be an issue with my images since I shoot with a Canon 5D Mark II.

Ii just need to smooth out the bumps of the selection edge.

This is a piece of cake if I was using the pen tool and turning my path into a selection.

BUT I am trying to do this with the Quick Select tool and Edge Refinement.

According to the instructional videos this should be possible but it is coming up short so far.

Anyone know how to finess the edges?

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Community Expert ,
Mar 07, 2012 Mar 07, 2012

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But using high values of Smooth and Contrast in Refine edge is going to do a reasonable job.  Otherwise, use the Pen tool to follow the outline, but cut a few corners and make it smooth as you need.  Turn the resulting Path into a selection, and use the Clone tool to fill in the gaps inside the line - invert the selection, and repeat for outside the line.

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Contributor ,
Mar 07, 2012 Mar 07, 2012

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Hi Trevor,

Im cool with using the pen tool but how do I use it when Im in the middle of using Edge Refinement?

Can they be used concurrently?

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LEGEND ,
Mar 07, 2012 Mar 07, 2012

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Refine Edges is actually intended to help you blend things into the background, so it may well make your edges LESS smooth.

Perhaps you should show a screen grab of what's actually going wrong for you.

Sometimes, if you're putting an object originally shot on a light background in front of a dark background, the eye/brain can spot the incongruity of the lighting, but there are some things you can do to help with that (e.g., push the Decontaminate Colors control way up).

-Noel

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Contributor ,
Mar 07, 2012 Mar 07, 2012

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Hi Noel,

I did post a screen shot of the problem area in my first post.

What should be a perfectly smooth curve on the edge of an apple, is not.

Its all bumpy.

If I could have the precision of a bezier curve, Id be all good.

- T

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Engaged ,
Mar 07, 2012 Mar 07, 2012

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Hi Thomas.

This is a piece of cake if I was using the pen tool and turning my path into a selection.

True. You might try a hybrid scheme like I use. I create photo montages all the time using the Quick Select Tool. I've done thousands. I refine the edge with an action. (One of a suite of actions I use for this work.) It smooths the the selection and then converts it to a path then a vector mask, which can be edited with the Direct Selection Tool (A). This elimates the feathered selections. And I don't have to draw the whole path with the Pen Tool. About half the time I need to adjust the mask. The other times rest, it's good as is. Depends on the contrast with the background. I use a Tolerance of 2 px most of the time when converting from a selection to a path. This varies with the circumstance. Something to think about in addition to mastering Refine Edge.

One other cheat I've learned. A barely perceptible amount of Bevel/Emboss and/or maybe Drop Shadow with the light aligned correctly can do wonders on troublesome edges when composing images. Quicker than perfecting the edge. Mileage varies according to content. Refining edges and composing is as much  Black Art as Science. The best tools and methods will depend very much on the content of the images and exactly what you're trying to do with them. I realize you are focusing on mastering the Refine Edge tool, and of course that's good strategy and time well spent. I run CS3, and Refine Edge isn't as spiffy as in CS5, so not as useful.

FWIW.

Peace,

Lee

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Engaged ,
Mar 08, 2012 Mar 08, 2012

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Try zero radius, no smart radius, increase the contrast quite a bit then smooth it to the desired degree. Youll have to use the refine radius tool to paint on the radius where you dont want a such a smoothed selection. I dont think you can change the shape of a selection only add or remove radius with the paint brush and eraser thingy while the refine edge box is open. If its not working for me I hit the cancel button and change the selection in quick mask mode then go back to refine edge.

So in summary too much radius, then what Trevor said(bearing in mind whay Noel said)

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Explorer ,
Nov 05, 2015 Nov 05, 2015

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So I'm a newbie having this same problem. This is the first time I've used photoshop and I have no idea what a pen tool is and if it's hardware I can't afford it so what's the consensus on how to do it without a pen tool?

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Community Expert ,
Nov 05, 2015 Nov 05, 2015

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First make sure you have a good selection. Use the "add" and "subtract" options in the options bar:

quickselect.png

Then explore the sliders in the Refine Edge dialog:

select1.png

select2.png

select3.png

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Explorer ,
Nov 05, 2015 Nov 05, 2015

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Already tried all those things. In fact it just made it more ragged then the original selection. Obviously the OP who knows more than me has tried this as well but I am surprised that such an expensive program allows what most would see as a glitch. It simply would not allow me to make a straight line when I got to my knee. It wanted to cut a big chunk right into it no matter what I did so I couldn't crop to where I wanted.

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Community Expert ,
Nov 05, 2015 Nov 05, 2015

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Then I suspect you have unrealistic expectations, and an initial selection that simply isn't precise enough.

Unlike much consumer-grade software, Photoshop never attempts to "guess" what you want (thankfully). This is, after all, professional software that can do just about anything as long as it receives precise input.

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Explorer ,
Nov 05, 2015 Nov 05, 2015

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The problem is that it won't allow me to precisely select what I want, it IS guessing and doing a terrible job at it. I didn't draw a line around my entire figure. It guessed it by me simply clicking and dragging in the middle. Seemed like guessing is THE feature of that feature.

So how do I make it let me draw a clean, precise line which it doesn't second guess me on?

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LEGEND ,
Nov 05, 2015 Nov 05, 2015

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‌And here's a tutorial on the pen tool: How to Use the Pen Tool in Photoshop - YouTube

You could get the selection close with quick selection then turn it into a layer mask and refine mask. Make another selection with the pen tool then use the brush tool on the mask to paint in any problem areas within the boundaries of the selection.

Edit: You could also try adding a custom curves adjustment; the quick selection tool works with contrasting edges.

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Explorer ,
Nov 05, 2015 Nov 05, 2015

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I'm trying to cut my body out of a picture cleanly to insert it onto another. I don't know how to paint back realistic skin that the selection tool takes away. The eraser doesn't seem to be erasing anything anymore and what is a layer mask?

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Community Expert ,
Nov 05, 2015 Nov 05, 2015

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what is a layer mask?

Well, apparently you don't really know Photoshop at all, so I suggest you sit back and instead of fighting this, give us enough information to show you the appropriate tools to use.

If all you want is a straight line, the polygonal lasso will do that. Which tools are you using? Can you post a screenshot? It doesn't have to be the entire image, just the portion you're not getting right.

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Explorer ,
Jan 29, 2023 Jan 29, 2023

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LATEST

7 years later, I know what a layer mask is, it does appear that Abode just has a problem recognising brown skin/ned people. The selections work perfectly on other people in the images without requiring adjustments CONSISTENTLY. It works really well on curly hair surprisingly. But free programs do almost as good these days so. And many of them actually do the rest of me much better which is embarrassing after their recent update claiming to have super awesome better detection skills. I just feel like there had to be some thought about selections on curves that meant they put in some way to select half a square so a leg doesn't gain photoshop induced cellulite. Using a camera that's a 2021 release mirrorless situation and quality files or using web images or iphone images doesn't really make a difference so I feel like it's the software that simply doesn't recognise brown skin people accurately compared to the background. As I said, white people in the images aren't having 1/8 of their leg or arm shaved off the side in automatic selections. So is there a workaround?

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LEGEND ,
Nov 05, 2015 Nov 05, 2015

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Put rather crudely (perhaps very crudely), a layer mask is a non-destructive version of the eraser. Here's how to add a layer mask:

Layer Mask.jpg

A layer mask will "mask out" certain areas of a layer. White on the mask will allow the layer's contents to show, while black will hide them (transparent). Any value between white and black will make the layer's contents partially transparent:

Layer Mask 2.jpg


An active selection can be used to set boundaries so the brush cannot paint beyond its limits:


Layer Mask & Active Selection.jpg


The layer mask can be refined in the same way as a selection. Right click on the mask thumbnail and choose "Refine Mask"

Refine Mask.jpg


---


Now, to use the technique..


  1. Use quick select to select the subject.
  2. Turn selection into a layer mask
  3. Refine as needed
  4. Use pen tool to precisely select any problem areas
  5. Convert pen path to selection
  6. Use the brush tool, on the previously created mask, to paint those areas back in (or out), within the boundaries of your active selection.


Now you should have a fine cutout.


As D Fosse mentioned, screen shots would be useful in helping you find the correct technique for the particular image. You can press Print Screen or PrtScn on your keyboard to capture the screen. Paste into a new Photoshop document (Ctrl or Cmd + V) and crop if you need to.


Also see: How to take a screenshot

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Enthusiast ,
Nov 05, 2015 Nov 05, 2015

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Quick selection can be effective, but the pen tool is the choice for precision in most of my projects. I'm no power-user, I know this doesn't answer your question, but consider perfecting your pen tool skills as well.

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