16 Replies Latest reply on Apr 13, 2016 3:39 PM by trshaner

    Imac 5K + Adobe premier and Lightroom?

    kenm81246519

      Hi,

       

      I'm about to buy a new machine for Lr and Adobe premier. I'm thinking about the Imac 5K (1TB fusion drive 16 GB RAM). Unfortunately, I have heard that this adobe product don't run smooth on this machine. So I have a concern here. Beside having Ipad and Iphone I don't have any experience with Mac and is open minded for both Microsoft and Mac. I would really like to hear your experience and maybe get some advice from you.

       

      My use is editing 4K video around 5-6 minutes long and a lot of photo editing in Lr and Ps.

       

      Best,

       

      Ken

        • 1. Re: Imac 5K + Adobe premier and Lightroom?
          john beardsworth Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Any how reliable is whatever you have heard? I certainly haven't heard it.

          • 2. Re: Imac 5K + Adobe premier and Lightroom?
            trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            john beardsworth wrote:

             

            Any how reliable is whatever you have heard? I certainly haven't heard it.

             

            https://forums.adobe.com/search.jspa?q=5K+retina+performance&place=%2Fplaces%2F1383621

             

            It appears numerous users are experieincing performance issues when using 5K display based systems. With 35+ Megapixel raw files (Nikon D8xx, Canon 5D, others) you may have performance issues, even with GPU support. With a lower Megapixel camera it may be OK, but I suggest reading some of the posts at the above search link.

            • 3. Re: Imac 5K + Adobe premier and Lightroom?
              kenm81246519 Level 1

              Hi trshaner!

               

              Thanks for this link. It's obvious that there is something wrong. It's a soap opera. I will postphone this purchase until I find a better solution.

               

              Ken

              • 4. Re: Imac 5K + Adobe premier and Lightroom?
                trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                GPU Support was introduced in LR 6 & CC 2015 and it seems to be getting better with each update (6.x, CC 2015.x). When LR 6 first rolled out enabling GPU Support actually slowed down the Develop module on previously well performing system. I'm now using LR CC 2015.4 and see a performance boost with GPU Support enabled.  For example the Basic panel sliders in LR CC 2015 had a slight lag that disappears when I check 'Use Graphics Processor.' I'm on Windows 7 with a moderately high-performance system and a 3.7 Mp 2560 x 1440 monitor. The 5K Retina display is 14.8 Mp 5120 x 2880, which is 4x the display pixels of my monitor. On my system or an equivalent Mac system LR will run at 1/4 the performance (14.8÷3.7) with a 5K Retina display.

                 

                I'm sure Adobe will improve the performance of LR with Retina 4K and 5K displays. It's just a question of "when" that will happen. It is also dependent on the specific graphics processor Apple uses in the 5K display system. If it lacks the features & performance required to speed things in LR there's very little Adobe can do to "fix" it.

                • 5. Re: Imac 5K + Adobe premier and Lightroom?
                  Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  If you have an apple store nearby you should go and check out how the performance of these machines is. Many demo machines in the stores have the creative cloud apps installed and they are happy to let you test with your own images. Nothing like seeing it up close.

                  • 6. Re: Imac 5K + Adobe premier and Lightroom?
                    trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    I suggest bringing at least 100 camera raw image files from your largest megapixel camera on a USB drive to load, import, and test in LR on the demo system. Try it with 'Use Graphics Processor both checked and unchecked in LR Preferences:

                    • 7. Re: Imac 5K + Adobe premier and Lightroom?
                      kenm81246519 Level 1

                      Thanks a lot for your help. We have one big electronic store here in Norway where you can buy the product and deliver it back if you are not satiesfied within 30 days. Maybe I should exploit this system. I mean performance problems should be a ligitimate reason to return the product. I will try to import RAW files at home and check the performance of both Lr and Premier. See how this work and check with different resolutions too. Many people claim that it's the 5K monitor it self that slow it down. There is some logic in it but what is the purpose with 5K if you cannot use it.. I'll keep you updated and thanks a million for your help to both you and Jao vdl.

                       

                      Ken

                      • 8. Re: Imac 5K + Adobe premier and Lightroom?
                        robgendreau Level 3

                        Did you check the dates on most of those posts? hardly recent. And hardly a prevalent problem (except that of course EVERYONE wants Lr to run faster on their machines...). I did experience some problems back in late '14 and '15, which were mainly down to Apple issues, and they disappeared after both Apple and Adobe did updates. And that was several Adobe and Apple versions ago.

                         

                        If you search just this forum you'll see that every conceivable machine that runs Lr has problems. But Lr and new machines are expensive; if you are so risk averse that a few comments online makes you hesitant, I'd suggest you try the return option. It's hardly widespread, but maybe you'll be the unlucky one. And that may occur no matter what you buy. Meanwhile, there are bazillions of us running those applications on 5k iMacs and we're delighted.

                        • 9. Re: Imac 5K + Adobe premier and Lightroom?
                          trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          robgendreau wrote:

                          Meanwhile, there are bazillions of us running those applications on 5k iMacs and we're delighted.

                          Definition: A very large exaggerated number."you were going a bazillion miles per hour!"


                          hat would be helpful is to tell us what Mac 5K system model you are using, with what camera model raw files, and just how "speedy" everything is inside LR. Also let us know if you're using the 5K display in its native 5120 x 2880 (Best) resolution mode or one of the lower resolution scaled modes such as 2560 x 1440.


                          This may be of interest: Lightroom CC Performance - Insights on the 5K Retina iMac -

                           

                          Here are the system specs for the 5K iMac system used in the above tests.. It's a very high-performance and expensive model.

                          • 10. Re: Imac 5K + Adobe premier and Lightroom?
                            robgendreau Level 3

                            trshaner, that's a nice write up you did.

                             

                            I have a 2014 5k iMac with the 4.0, 295x card, and 500GB SSD, with 32GB RAM. The system is HEAVILY tweaked; I essentially migrated from a hackintosh and so use tons of wonky extensions and such left over from those days, even though I probably don't need them. Latest Lr/Ps CC and dozens of image applications. Also Lr plugins galore, from metadata stuff like Beardsworth's, Ellis's, and Friedl's, and also Nik, DxO, and MacPhun software, usually processing via a RAW workflow from Lr rather than a TIFF export.

                             

                            I use PEFs, DNGs, ORFs, and the usual image formats, as well as stuff like hybrid pixel shift DNGs (say 125MB in size, with four embedded frames). And the occasional 4k video, usually AVCHD. 1:1 previews on import. I run the display (color corrected via Xrite) in best mode or whatever Apple calls retina now ("native" is a bit of an anachronism in retina in some ways, but I know what you mean). So it's always 5k except for scaling non HiDPI graphical UI elements in some older applications or web sites).

                             

                            I also push a dual DVI connected 2.5k monitor, and use both Tbolt and USB 3 externals (JBOD).

                             

                            I don't do tests, and I don't time stuff. Entirely subjective. Faster than my hackintosh (i7 4770 and I can't remember the two graphic cards I used). When I got it just after introduction, some sliders in Lr would stutter step; that's been gone a long time. Previews fly by. No noticeable lag in doing much of anything, except importing say 10's of GB of RAWs and generating previews and smart previews, which is to be expected. The higher resolution of thumbnails allows me to cull MUCH faster since I can see much much more. No more constant zooming in Develop mode either, especially when sharpening, or denoising. Or even just cropping. I usually am also previewing the image on the 2.5k at the same time to see how it will appear on old monitors.

                             

                            Couldn't be happier. If it hadn't worked out, I probably would have built a graphics specific hackintosh again, or maybe just run Windows 10 on it. But the 5k is the ultimate display for my needs by orders of magnitude.

                             

                            I see an awful lot of misinformation about 5k Macs still floating around out there. Many people still don't understand how retina works, for example; I've even encountered some who don't know about HiDPI and how Lr can show images at 1:1 while the menus, etc still appear the same size as the ones on the same sized 2.5k monitor. Go figure. Or they sit too far from it, another pet peeve of mine (if you're gonna spend $3k on it, get the benefit of retina by being close enough, or stay 30" away and use a 2.5K to the same effect at that distance and save some $$).

                            • 11. Re: Imac 5K + Adobe premier and Lightroom?
                              kenm81246519 Level 1

                              Hi Robgendreau,

                               

                              Well, I will say there is reason to be sceptical despite a bazillion 5K Mac's out there. I have checked the date and i have checked other places than this forum. In my opinion it seems to be a performance problem from the day 5K launced until at least 2016. Who owns this issue, I don't know. I will also add that It's a quite normal behavior to do some research before you go out and spend 3K on a computer. If the issues is solved, nothing could be better. According to Tony Hart this could absolutely be true. As I said initially, I just want some advise and it's good to hear that you are satiesfied. No doubt it's a gorgeous piece of technology, despite being in the market for many years now.

                              • 12. Re: Imac 5K + Adobe premier and Lightroom?
                                trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                robgendreau wrote:

                                 

                                trshaner, that's a nice write up you did.

                                Just to be clear the article I linked to is the work of Tony Hart and I agree he did a great job!

                                 

                                robgendreau wrote:

                                I have a 2014 5k iMac with the 4.0, 295x card, and 500GB SSD, with 32GB RAM. The system is HEAVILY tweaked; I essentially

                                Couldn't be happier. If it hadn't worked out, I probably would have built a graphics specific hackintosh again, or maybe just run Windows 10 on it. But the 5k is the ultimate display for my needs by orders of magnitude.

                                So it appears 5K display systems with a relatively high performance (and expensive) CPU and GPU work well with LR CC 2015.

                                 

                                If you're up to the challenge I wonder how a hgh-performance iMac 5K system performs with Canon 5Ds 50 Mp raw files. You can download some CR2 sample files located about half-way down the page at this link: Canon EOS 5DS R Sample Images | PhotographyBLOG

                                • 13. Re: Imac 5K + Adobe premier and Lightroom?
                                  robgendreau Level 3

                                  Sorry; I agree it's OK to be skeptical and you're right, with 3k in the balance one should be.

                                   

                                  But you will not find ANY hardware and software system with fewer problems. EVERY computer environment can produce problems running demanding software like Ps, Lr, and Premiere. The only valid question is whether say a PC setup or Mac or whatever has a statistical chance of being better than some other. And that is impossible to ascertain based on internet kvetching. Looking at benchmarks at say macperformance.com, barefeats, or the site trshaner cited can give you a better idea, but that still doesn't eliminate the chance your particular machine or software environment will work. The best you can do is that 30-day no questions return policy.

                                   

                                  And don't get lost in stats about even measured speed tests, etc. They too depend on your own workflow, and things like seeing images at 5k vs 4k make a big difference in actually getting work done. So if say an iMac was 3 seconds slower bringing up a 1:1 5k view vs a PC bringing it up in 4k the iMac could still "win" since I wouldn't have to scroll that image, while on the PC I might have to. Even with some of the bumps in the intitial release of Lr 6 and the iMac overall it was STILL faster a quite fast hackintosh with lower resolution displays, in large part just because of the 5k. YMMV, but there is gonna be risk no matter what you do. You won't know till you take the plunge and try something.

                                   

                                  I tried one of those Canon 5D images. Took about 9 seconds to import off an external SSD with 1:1 previews and smart preview generation (in my experience, it's hard to judge batch import speeds based on just one image since there may be economies of scale essentially). Once in, there was a slight hesitation as I moved from Library to Develop, less than a second. Once there, any slider movement seemed virtually simultaneous, except maybe a bit of a lag in denoising, but I could really tell since it wasn't a noisy image I tested. Lens corrections, contrast, BW, tone curve, all were pretty seamless, working with a 1:1 the whole time.

                                  • 14. Re: Imac 5K + Adobe premier and Lightroom?
                                    trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    robgendreau wrote:

                                     

                                    I tried one of those Canon 5D images. Took about 9 seconds to import off an external SSD with 1:1 previews and smart preview generation (in my experience, it's hard to judge batch import speeds based on just one image since there may be economies of scale essentially). Once in, there was a slight hesitation as I moved from Library to Develop, less than a second. Once there, any slider movement seemed virtually simultaneous, except maybe a bit of a lag in denoising, but I could really tell since it wasn't a noisy image I tested. Lens corrections, contrast, BW, tone curve, all were pretty seamless, working with a 1:1 the whole time.

                                    On my 5-year old HP system (i7-860, 12GB, SSD, Quadro 600) Canon 5Ds 50Mp CR2 file processing is pretty lag free with exception of the Luminance NR slider. It takes ~1.0 sec. to render with 'Use Graphics Processor' unchecked and ~2.0 sec. with it checked and using the GPU. It sounds like your 5K iMac system works quite well with the large 50Mp raw files. To get an actual reading on the Luminance NR slider rendering delay crank Sharpening Amount up to 150 maximum and view an area of the image at 1:1 that has visible noise. Drag the Luminance slider all the way to 100 and time the delay for noise to disappear. Time it with both 'Use Graphics Processor' unchecked and checked.

                                    • 15. Re: Imac 5K + Adobe premier and Lightroom?
                                      robgendreau Level 3

                                      Tried that with a noisy image, ISO3200 IIRC.

                                       

                                      It was too fast for me to time, under one second. With and without graphic card use enabled. Pretty similar with my pixel shift images too, although I don't have any very noisy ones.

                                      • 16. Re: Imac 5K + Adobe premier and Lightroom?
                                        trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                        Impressive–Clearly with the right configuration (CPU, GPU, etc.) a 5K Mac system performs well with LR CC 2015. Thanks for running that check!