indesign 2017 bugs: selecting text + fontexplorer prompt

[arielko]

since upgrading to CC 2017 + sierra 10.12.1 on my macbook pro, 2 small annoying things happen:

1. upon selecting text, the dreaded rainbow spinning wheel of death appears, either taking a couple of seconds to dissapear and let me go on working, or worse, crashing indesign.

2. indesign no longer prompts fontexplorer x to open fonts for a specific file, so i have to quit indesign, open fontexplorer, open the fonts, then reopen indesign.

anyone? thanks!

[Steve Werner]

FontExplorer has not been updated for InDesign CC 2017. You should use CC 2015 until it's updated.

If you need to, reinstall CC 2015 from the Creative Cloud desktop app. From the Apps tab, choose FIND ADDITIONAL APPS, then choose Previous Versions from the menu on the right. Click on the Install button beside InDesign.

[arielko]

thanks veru much steve

[kōtuku]

I'm also getting the rainbow spinning wheel of death when I highlight text. it also began when I upgraded to 2017 release and appears to be a bug.

[arielko]

@kōtuku are you using fontexplorer for font management?

[kōtuku]

yes

[arielko]

i guess that explains it, according to @steve.

i downloaded cc2015 as he suggested, but ended up going back to the current one.

once in a while i get the "spinning wheel of death" and have to restart indesign

[Irishspacemonk]

This is the official excuse for a buggy software release? Go back to the previous? This was easy back when there was a cost to upgrading. Now everyone on the team updates almost immediately, meaning you don't have an easy choice to just stick with what works. What a joke.

[The Next Wave]

FontExplorer has been updated- to version 6.

It's time for Adobe to recognize that since you stopped providing font management tools- (anyone remember Adobe type manager) you relegated others to.

If you can't work with what the rest of the industry does-

you can't keep charging us for updates.

Why should I be paying for cc17 and having to use cc15?

[BobLevine]

I’m not sure I understand the purpose of your rant. If FEX has been updated for CC2017 then use it.

[arielko]

FEX has not been updated to the latest version of CC

I think @thenextwave is right, adobe would do better by complementing its comprehensive set of tools by providing its own font managment system.

[Steve Werner]

It's highly unlikely that Adobe would be interested in developing and selling font management software, in my opinion. It's never going to give them the return they want. There are several competing products on both Mac and Windows platforms that are already doing fine.

Adobe Font Manager (which originated in the early 1990s) was mostly to market Adobe PostScript fonts. It hasn't been around for at least twenty years.

[BobLevine]

According to their Facebook page, FEX 6 has been updated for CC2017 with new plugins in November. FontExplorer X | Facebook

And again, this is not on Adobe. If you have a complaint about FEX, contact them.

PS to Steve: It was Adobe Type Manager (ATM) which has very little in the way of features compared to FEX and Suitcase. On the Windows side it added Type 1 support. There was also ATM Deluxe that added a few other niceties but that was long, long ago.

I am in 100% agreement in that there's no way Adobe wants anything to do with this.

[The Next Wave]

Apparently I didn't update the FEX plugins.

Hopefully that should solve my problem.

However, Adobe should care if their software works with font managers-

just like you need video editors to work with the various video codecs- and camera output- as well as international broadcast standards.

I don't know who you are BobLevine, or Steve Werner- but, your opinions don't help solve the problem.

Adobe Type Manager was there to solve a real problem- one that still exists. Managing large number of typefaces- many of which use standards devised by Adobe. It's their baby- they should help solve the problem - not make it worse.

Cheers

[BobLevine]

ATM could not hold a candle to FEX or SF. Adobe is far from perfect and there are plenty of things to criticize but this isn’t even close to the top of the list. They’ve killed off far more important products than ATM which, BTW, has been dead for the better part of 15 years!

Again, if you have an issue with FEX or any other 3rd party, take it up with them. It’s not Adobe’s fault if they can’t keep up.

[Dov Isaacs · Accepted solution]

@DAVID ESRATI:

On behalf of Adobe …

In fact, Adobe certainly does care if our software works with font managers. And it isn't simply a matter of whether Adobe software works with font managers, but whether the font managers properly integrate with Adobe software. (For example, InDesign provides various program interfaces for the font managers to properly integrate with. Given ongoing updates to InDesign functionality in terms of support for typography and fonts, these interfaces are updated for each release!) The major providers of font manager software products do have access to pre-release versions of InDesign and other Adobe products. Whether they choose to have compatible versions available in a timely fashion is not something that we can force in any way.

In terms of ATM (Adobe Type Manager), that product was discontinued many years ago. It last supported MacOS 9 and Windows XP (32-bit only). It's “font management” capabilities were minimal and very primitive. The real reason for ATM's existence was to provide add-on support for regular Type 1 and Multiple Master Type 1 fonts under older versions of Windows and MacOS that didn't have any built-in support for same. Once Adobe collaborated with both Apple and Microsoft to provide built-in support for both Type 1 fonts and OpenType CFF fonts within the operating systems, the true need for the existing ATM was effectively gone and marketing of same was abandoned as it was incompatible with newer OS releases and because there were a plethora of third party vendors offering true font management products. It did not and still does not make sense for Adobe to try to compete with those vendors who for the most part do satisfy the market need (primarily in the graphic arts market) for font managers.

Beyond what Adobe does in terms of having the font manager vendors enrolled in our developer and prerelease test programs for new releases, I honestly don't know what else Adobe can do. If you are not content with the speed by which the vendors of existing font managers release updated versions of their products, either to maintain OS version compatibility or Adobe application compatibility, I most strongly recommend that you contact those vendors directly and let your opinions be known to them.

          - Dov

[Irishspacemonk]

I feel Adobe's response here is typical of any monopoly. The challenge occurs when updates are pushed out to users (the design community) before full integration has had a chance to take place (smaller resourced plugin developers). This isn't just limited to type managers and InDesign, but all Adobe products. The suggestion to just roll back to a previous version of the software is not as easy as it seems with the subscription model. Prior to being subscription based, because of the built in control (upgrades cost something so you were hesitant to upgrade), it was easier for production pipelines to control updates. Now freelancers and other vendors tend to update the moment Adobe announces 2019...or whatever edition of CC. That's the excitement of subscriptions right? Suddenly you're faced with not being able to open files unless you have the latest version. Perhaps a better solution would be for Adobe to find a way for their software to open versions of files without having the latest version - more backward compatibility - and slow updates so that plugins with wide user bases, like FEX, have a chance to catch up. Yes, your releases are suddenly tied to the community being ready...but you'd have a much happier user base. It's no wonder that slowly, tools like Sketch, are tackling the user base of Adobe.

[kōtuku]

ummm... this conversation has gone completely off track and is not actually helping me. I have a problem with selecting text in Indesign - I get the spinning wheel for about 6-7 seconds before I can do anything. I don't know if it has anything to do with the font management software. (I use Font Book and suitcase). What I do know is it only started happening when I upgraded to 2017 version so I assume its a bug in the new upgrade and it's bloody annoying. It doesn't happen in every file so it may be related to a particular font I am using when it does happen but I don't know for sure as I tend to use mostly the same fonts. Would appreciate a helpful answer.

[BobLevine]

If you have Suitcase Fusion go the type menu and turn off autoactivation as a test.

[The Next Wave]

Hi Dov,  Thanks for your response.

I've been putting up with Adobe's nonsense for a long time.

I started with a 512K fat mac- Ready Set Go- and Freehand.There are still features in Freehand that I miss.

I understand the complexities- but- seriously, this only started with the 2017 update.

So, it is you- not them.

I've recently checked my plugins and updated. I'm hoping it solves my problem.

However, I'm pretty sure that fonts are becoming an issue again for those of us who have thousands- acquired over the last 25+ years.

Maybe it's time for Apple, Adobe, Microsoft, Monotype, etc- to sit down and hammer out some solutions- a real font conformer- to stop these issues. Your support costs have to be skyrocketing due to something relatively minor.

As to helping kōtuku with his problem, I updated my plugins for FEX and it seems to not be hanging with the spinning wheel anymore. You may check Suitcase for a newer version.

I wasn't aware you could use both FontBook and Suitcase.

Maybe that's part of the problem?

Good luck.

[Dov Isaacs]

No update to InDesign is “pushed out to users” in any way. A user must explicitly request the update to the next version from the Creative Cloud desktop application. This is not forced upon them! To some degree, computer users must take some personal responsibility to ascertain compatibility issues prior to willy-nilly installing updates to either OS or applications!

And the issue with font manager updates trailing an InDesign release goes back a long time; this is unfortunately nothing new with the CC 2017 releases and we have seen it since some of the earliest InDesign release upgrades. (I've been with Adobe nearly 27 years!)

And quite frankly, all the font manager vendors had plenty of time, notice, encouragement, and support from Adobe to update and test their products.  They are definitely not the “smaller resourced plugin developers” that you make them out to be.

You complain about the pace that we roll out new versions? On the other hand we have those users who complain that we don't roll them out fast enough, especially to deal with compatibility issues and new features provided by new OS releases and peripherals, issues that require significantly more changes than a simple update/patch release.

Hopefully, you also complain to Apple about how they encourage their MacOS users to upgrade to the latest-and-greatest OS version without hinting to them that often these new OS releases kill existing applications.

This is unfortunately not as simple as you make it out to be, what you consider “Adobe nonsense,” or an issue of some uncaring monopoly.

          - Dov

[Dov Isaacs]

Given that the original question(s) have been answered sufficiently, this thread will be closed.