InDesign 12.0.0.81 2017.0 Release PDF rendering issue

[_m8]

Hello,

I'm running Sierra.

Since updating to the 2017 CC release of Indesign I am having issues creating a PDF's that output with the correct black colour.

I have created many versions of the exact same PDF which has a black background in all previous versions of InDesign and have had no problems with colour. The moment I updated and created the same PDF in the 2017 edition I am now getting a very light grey/brown not a true black. Photoshopped images that have black content remain black, this is just boxes that have been produced such as backgrounds in black. I have tried various output settings within Indesign including alternate colour spaces for PDF's to no avail. The same issue is seen when the PDF is opened in Acrobat or in Apple's Preview app.

PDF Example 2017 Right Side is suppose to be bla — Postimage.org

PDF Example 2016 RIght Side is black — Postimage.org 

Is this a bug or has something changed that I have yet to find in settings?

Please help Adobe.

Many thanks,

Derek

[rob day]

The appearance of black depends on your document's CMYK profile—black + a CMY mix usually prints as darker value.

65|50|50|100 vs. 0|0|0|100 with the document profile as US Coated SWOP default:

You can override the accurate black appearance via Preferences>Appearance of Black, but that only changes the display of black and wouldn't change the export to a print quality PDF preset.

[_m8]

Will check the CMYK profile. I am outputting as rich black in preferences. Thanks for the response!

[rob day]

I am outputting as rich black in preferences.

What's the destination of the PDF an offset press?

Your export preset's Color Conversion settings would affect how a black only CMYK value is handled.

[_m8]

The PDF is just for viewing on another computer for editing purposes of text. I only noticed the change in black as I created a new PDF to view. As I noted, I have many of these that I have made with the same settings with no black issues. I have tried to create a PDF using CWMK and RGB transparency setting.

I tried this again just opening a new fresh dock with a black box and then converting to PDF in both cases the same result - not black.

[rob day]

Acrobat also display's 0|0|0|100 as a different value than a rich black—black with CMY.

The reason the Photoshop file is displaying differently is its RGB or if it is CMYK the black point is a 4-color black, which would be normal when you convert black RGB to CMYK.

If the PDF will not be commercially printed use an RGB 0|0|0 black for your fills in ID. Even if it will be printed on an offset press the best practice is to use a rich black mix for large areas of black.

Another alternative for screen only PDF is, with your black appearance set to export rich blacks, set the destination to RGB when you export.

[_m8]

Thank you Rob, I will try again. To clarify, the issue is not with a PS image. It is with a text box or box created in Black in Indesign. The black used to output in PDF as black and now it's not. This is not a photo or PS image issues. It's entirely happening within InDesign.

[rob day]

To clarify, the issue is not with a PS image. It is with a text box or box created in Black in Indesign.

Right I understand. Modern CMYK profiles always preview black mixes differently because offset inks are transparent. This isn't new with 2017 here's your example image against different black fills in CC2014.

[_m8]

Okay, so I'm still a bit lost. Perhaps I can create a new document such as the simple one that I made with a black box that will not output a PDF in proper black and have you open it and try it?

[rob day]

With your Black Appearance preference set to Output Rich Blacks, export your PDF using this Output setting.

Or you can use Document Setup and set the Intent to Web, which will convert all of the document swatches to RGB.

[_m8]

Hi Rob,

I tried this as best as possible, my version of Indesign mac does not have the same options as yours. Still no dice. Ack!

[rob day]

You mean if you choose Export>Adobe PDF(Print) there's not an Output tab available?

[_m8]

There is. But doesn't have the same options.

[rob day]

Can you show a screen capture?

Click the image icon in the post menu to add a capture

[_m8]

I'm beginning to feel that this is an isolated issue related to CC 2017. There is also an issue with closing a document and it won't reopen until the computer is rebooted. I've tried everything. No PDF setting or output formula will render a simple black box in the correct colour.

[rob day]

No PDF setting or output formula will render a simple black box in the correct colour.

This is not new [Black] vs. rich black mix questions come up all the time.

Have you tried changing the black fill to RGB 0|0|0?

[_m8]

Understood. I am wondering though, if the black box is CWYK and the document is for eventual print why would I change the fill to RGB?

[rob day]

if the black box is CWYK and the document is for eventual print why would I change the fill to RGB?

For print destinations you would use a CMYK mix for large areas of black (but not for small text). A standard "rich black" mix would be something like 50|35|35|100. Again offset printing inks are transparent so black with a mix of CMY underneath will print noticeably darker than black by itself. Both InDesign and Acrobat will attempt show that effect.

[_m8]

Black box fill is CMYK black and text is grey CMYK values.

So, I just checked the transparency blend space settings on my original document and it was set to RGB. I switched to CMYK and now the entire document is washed out. Even the images have a whitish hue on top and the black fill boxes are still a light grey and not black.

[rob day]

A CMYK blend space forces all RGB objects into a CMYK preview

black fill boxes are still a light grey and not black.

Show a screen capture. Do you know how create a swatch or color with black + CMY values?

[_m8]

I will do this later, but if you can tell me how to do this that would be helpful as I am unsure.

Thanks Rob!

[rob day · Accepted solution]

From the Swatches panel flyout choose New Color Swatch...

[_m8]

Hi Rob,

This fixed it. I am now able to output to PDF in any mode and get the correct black by using the rich black process. Please if you do not mind explain why it worked with every previous edition of my file using the other standard iteration CMYK black 0 0 0 0? What would have happened in the 2017 version to change this?

The only thing that is unique is that my 2017 CC did not update from the previous 2016 edition, it made me install a fresh copy.

Anyway, many thanks!

Derek

[rob day]

What would have happened in the 2017 version to change this?

It could have been a change in your export settings or a change in the PDF viewer you are using. In general AcrobatPro will also show the difference in black only vs. a rich black CMYK value.

Keep in mind if you are in fact preparing files for a printing press, the accurate black preview is desirable—it's not changing the output but simply giving you a better soft proof of how black ink and black ink mixes are expected print. The difference will be very noticeable on uncoated sheets. You also don't want to set small type with a rich black in case the press goes off register, so the best practice is to use rich black only with large fills.