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Doubling effect especially on writings after rendering composition

New Here ,
Dec 30, 2016 Dec 30, 2016

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Hy there,

I do have some problems with some compositions in after effects. The clip itself ist a pretty simple map animation with some writings in it. After a first overview over a certain region, the animation begins to zoom in to the map and increases an area of interest while the writings, which mark some POI on the map, become smaller during the zoom.

e.g: map increases from 10% to 50% while the writings scale down from 50% to 10%.

The problem I have now is, that after rendering the composition and importing it in avid or watching it on the QT-player, it appears some sort of doubling-glittering effect, especially on the writings, but even on the map itself.

As a note: I tried any possible changes in the composition settings as well as in the rendering settings. I made the fonts mainly in Photoshop and worked with PSD files, but I tried as well to work with some vector based AI files, which did'nt make any changes. I even tried all sorts of variations: bigger/smaller writings, different font, different lengths of the effects etc.

I would be happy about any possible solutions and ideas, as I'm trying to solve that problem already since some days!

In the meantime, a happy new year to all of you!

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Community Expert ,
Dec 30, 2016 Dec 30, 2016

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arminw50285596 wrote:

... The clip itself ist a pretty simple map animation with some writings in it. After a first overview over a certain region, the animation begins to zoom in to the map and increases an area of interest while the writings, which mark some POI on the map, become smaller during the zoom.

I assume you designed the move this way. I also assume that you don't want the text to look like it was actually printed on the map.

The problem I have now is, that after rendering the composition and importing it in avid or watching it on the QT-player, it appears some sort of doubling-glittering effect, especially on the writings, but even on the map itself.

I'm not really sure what you are talking about but I'm guessing that the edges of the details look like they are not moving smoothly. This could be caused by fine detail moving at a speed that is interacting with the frame rate and causing Judder. This is a common problem with things like title rolls and slow pans over details. Cinematographers shooting film at 24 or 25 fps have known about these "critical panning speeds" for about 100 years. Folks that grew up with interlaced video didn't have the same problem because the frame rate of the interlaced fields was twice that high. If that is your problem then please read these articles from the FAQ on this forum. FAQ: Why does horizontal motion stutter (judder) in my movies, such as during pans?

If that is not the problem then you could be seeing compression artifacts. The problem that I have in helping you is that I don't know exactly what you mean by doubling-glittering effect. Without seeing the rendered video at full resolution and full frame at full frame rate you cannot accurately judge the final quality of your product. IOW, you can't really tell what your animation will look like unless you play it back full size and full speed and on the device it is intended to be viewed on.

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New Here ,
Jan 02, 2017 Jan 02, 2017

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Hello Mr. Gerard, and thank you for your detailed answer,

I also assume that you don't want the text to look like it was actually printed on the map.

It probably could look that way, I think that would'nt make any difference for me. But I add two pics which show a little bit the dynamic of the animation.

Map_01.jpg

The first pic, shows the starting frame of the animation, while the second shows the map more orless a 2 seconds later.

Map_02.jpg

During this animation short animation of 3 seconds (after reading your answer I tried different speeds up to 7-8 seconds, which actually did'nt change anything) I have a judder/jitter/distortion effect in the comp, which looks actually like this:

Map_03.jpg

IOW, you can't really tell what your animation will look like unless you play it back full size and full speed and on the device it is intended to be viewed on.

I watched it on some reference devices (SD and Full HD) and the distortion was even more visible on those monitors.

Kind Regards

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LEGEND ,
Jan 02, 2017 Jan 02, 2017

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The problem I have now is, that after rendering the composition and importing it in avid or watching it on the QT-player, it appears some sort of doubling-glittering effect, especially on the writings, but even on the map itself.

this is interlacing

if you are exporting interlaced footage it will look like this when viewed without de-interlacing. on a broadcast monitor it will look fine, on a computer monitor with a player that does not deinterlace it will look like this. you can deinterlace temporarily with VLC

here's some information about it from former Ae's product manager Todd Kopriva:

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New Here ,
Jan 02, 2017 Jan 02, 2017

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Hello Mr. Tzoref,

Thank you for your answer. The problem we have, is that even on our broadcastmonitors, which we always use to ensure to have the best quality for our movies, the problem still exists.

anyway, I attach a link to the WeTransfer file, so you can have a look for your own.

WeTransfer

Kind regards

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LEGEND ,
Jan 02, 2017 Jan 02, 2017

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I downloaded your footage. Ae has interpreted it correctly as separate fields upper fields first

other than the strobing that is caused by fast movement (if you can,  use 30fps you will have better results), high contrast (if you can, you could lower the contrast if that is an option, maybe use a different drop shadow) and also some motion blur (that will definitely help) - it looks fine. all of this information is in the document Rick has generously produced for all of us.

No deinterlacing

deinterlaced.gif

with deintrelacing

001.gif

motion blur

blur.gif

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New Here ,
Jan 03, 2017 Jan 03, 2017

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Hello,

i've tried now all of it, but none really made big changes to my output material. There is still this noisy jitter/distortion and I can't really figure out from where it could come from other than the things we discussed already

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LEGEND ,
Jan 03, 2017 Jan 03, 2017

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is this noisy to you?

motion blur

blur.gif

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New Here ,
Jan 03, 2017 Jan 03, 2017

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It's quiet hard to say. The motion blur is definitely recognizable  as an effect, but it still seems to me, that the letter (especially the B) is jittering, especially focusing on the center part of it.

Don't even feel certain anymore if its possible to get rid of that sort of noise in such compositions.

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LEGEND ,
Jan 03, 2017 Jan 03, 2017

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maybe you are overthinking it. I have been doing animated maps for many years, some from zooming from earth view and finishing the movement up to a city and never had an issue with jittering. I work in 25fps as well. here's an example with mb: Map_54.mp4 - Google Drive 

I sometimes even don't use motion blur. you can use less motion blur if you want and:

1. choose another typeface that is more bold

2. try different contrast settings

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New Here ,
Jan 03, 2017 Jan 03, 2017

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Maybe I am. I will try it with another font, which is a little bit bolder again, as it is the only thing I have'nt try till now. Anyway, thanks for your help and you patience

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Adobe Employee ,
Feb 07, 2017 Feb 07, 2017

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Hi ArminW,

Looks like you had quite a project there. What did you end up doing to solve your issue? Can you mark any of Roei's answers as the correct one? Let us know.

Thanks,
Kevin

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