Do pantone colors automatically convert to cmyk when creating a pdf?

[elizabethr48811889]

I am working completely in Adobe Suite. When creating an ad in InDesign, it appears to convert a pantone color selection automatically to cmyk. I created a pdf of this ad but when job was received back from printer, artwork was reversed and type dropped out. The printer is saying it's because the background was a pantone. Doesn't something like this get corrected in the preflight process?

[Steve Werner]

Version of InDesign (exactly)? What PDF export setting are you using?

[elizabethr48811889]

Thanks for the help. I think the problem is we have been told to use something the print shop set up when exporting our pdfs but this is something they set up years ago. From what I've been reading I should be exporting from InDesign to a PDF/X file and that would solve the problem. Is that correct?

[rob day]

In general it's bad practice to use spot colors for a process color job. You should either change the swatch type to process in the swatches panel or use Pantone's recommended CMYK values by using the PANTONE Bridge libraries

[Danny Whitehead.]

By 'pantone color selection', I presume you mean a spot colour swatch. InDesign won't automatically convert them, unless 'All Spots to Process' is checked in the Ink Manager.

Yes, if you send a PDF containing spot colours to a printer for CMYK process printing, you can usually expect a reasonable conversion to CMYK to happen in their preflight or RIP, but it's generally better practice not to do it. It's hard to determine what went wrong without seeing the artwork.

[Eugene Tyson]

The printers should be correcting that when they receive. All they seem to have done with the file is put it through their RIP without looking at it.

Likely the Spot colour was not handled correctly, or ignored.

Ideally - I prefer to leave colours as they are - if they're RGB - then leave them - if they're Spot colours - leave them  (unless the brand guidelines give CMYK breakdowns then I would change).

It's my opinion and that of several colleagues that colour conversion is best handled by a RIP - where an up to date RIP would have all the correct information for converting a Spot Colour to CMYK.

I would also go as far to say that the printers didn't preflight, they didn't check, they didn't do anything other than make a plate of exactly what you gave - which was misinterpreted by their RIP.

Basically - did you get a proof of the job from the printers? If so, was the proof that you received identical to what was printed?

If the answer is Yes you got a proof and No it didn't match - then the printer is at fault.

If you never got a proof - and the printers never flagged anything in error - nor flagged anything during printing - then you are both at fault here and should come to an amicable agreement.

If you have a contract with them you should review this and refer the relevant sections as to what was expected of you and what was expected of them.

At the end of the day - the job is ruined and the responsibility lies somewhere between you and them.

[dj@mai]

I have a print company and as such have the benefits of testing files and colors. Since this is an ongoing issue. We also have additional software - NOT the RIP - that helps us figure out color issues, among other fixes.

I was testing colors again today and how they were converted into the PDF. Without this additional software you wouldn't know. Even Photoshop, which is second best, has different CMYK make up than the PDF does. I don't know why, only that it is true.

ISSUES: As I tested Pantone 312 today, I'll use this as an example. In the Pantone Bridge Book Pantone Coated Colors (321 C = C88 M0 Y11 K0) is NOT the same as Pantone Uncoated Colors (321 U = C74 M0 Y12 K0). My best guess is that today we are using coated papers (digital) instead of coating after printing (offset but not always), so Pantone is attempting to make the change in the colors instead?

Moving on. I'm using InDesign for this example. Illustrator has a whole other set of color issues I can't resolve yet.

When exporting from InDesign to a PDF, EVEN WHEN USING Convert to Process, the colors export as LAB - which causes a LOT of problems in the Print World. This change through the years. When I then convert to CMYK - the colors are even MORE off.

Pantone 321 C = L59.77% A-45.32% B-36.36 Converted = C97.36 M0 Y17.59 K0

Remember it is supposed to be: 321 C = C88 M0 Y11 K0

Pantone 321 U = L63.67% A-34.37% B-32.37 Converted = C81.37 M1.3 Y13.08 K0

Remember it is supposed to be: 321 C = C74 M0 Y12 K0

Recently I started using the ONLY Pantone Color Bridge colors (Pantone CP). These export as they are supposed to.  I tend to ONLY use Coated colors as I find the Uncoated to be useless. They are dull and lackluster. Which is 'uncoated looking'.

I have not been successful with the converting process in the swatch panel. Doesn't work.

In our company process, it doesn't matter if you select the 'convert spots' or not. Sometimes we would rather not so we know what the Pantone color is for color matching purposes.

Bottom line - In InDesign, Pantone colors should NOT be a problem for printers as long as you use the Pantone Bridge Colors (they show up in the swatch panel as CP for Coated Process).

I know this is long winded, but hope it helps at least one other peron.

[Brad @ Roaring Mouse]

"converting process in the swatch panel"

You shouldn't.

CMYK conversions of Pantone's LAB-based swatches will be entirely different depending on the Colour Management settings used by all concerned. Your different CMYK values are not unusual and indicative of the issues of pre-converting before print using a ICC profile that does not reflect the actual device/environment the job is being printed on.

This is why it's best to leave Pantone's as spot until RIP stage. THhe RIP, if properly Colour managed, will convert the spot to the best CMYK IT can do*. Also, most high-end RIPs and even copier-level digital printers have a Pantone replacement routine to convert and consolidate.

*Remember, Pantone is a MATCHING System, so the real goal is to match an actual Pantone ink as closely as possible (like a chip or a printed swatch of the actual ink). This why Pantone swatches are in LAB... they have measured with a spectrophotomerer every ink they make. Every device will need a different CMYK mix to make that happen.

[Brad @ Roaring Mouse]

"Pantone Color Bridge Colors"

Only if you are printing to a device similar to the press they were designed for. These colours are generally good for typical offset printing in a modern CTP workflow using typical offset inks. They have less validity on

devices using other technology and inks.

[Test Screen Name]

I would expect and hope that Pantone colours convert to different CMYK values depending on the CMYK profile in use. That's what is supposed to happen, but it might not. Pantone's published "CMYK conversion" is just a figment of their imagination, software cannot and should not match it.

[dj@mai]

To be clear, I export 'No Color Conversion' as we may use the same file for multiple print projects, surfaces etc. We have experience with digital, offset, inkjet, poster printers etc. As a Designer in a Print Shop environment, I have advantages to practice trials and errors to find the best practices. My process works 99% of the time. IF and When I find that changes to the software causes my process to no longer works properly, I find out why and what to do differently. I only wish to share my knowledge.

[rob day]

Also,  Pantone has yet again changed their Bridge CP colors—the CMYK values you get with the Bridge Libraries that ship with ID are different than the values in Pantone’s current Pantone Connect Extention.

https://community.adobe.com/t5/indesign-discussions/branding-color-guide/td-p/10818696