Avid Animation Renders Are All Bad - Matted Not Straight Despite The Settings

[Brad L.]

For alpha animations heading to the Avid suites I am using DNxHD HQ 8-bit with uncompressed Alpha, RGB + Alpha, Millions of Colors+, Straight (Unmatted). Pretty normal stuff there. Also I have to check Preserve RGB on the Color Management tab to match up to the Rec 709 Avid is working in.

Prior to this I was using ProRes and Animation codec from a Mac but being on a PC now I have tried to move to a DNxHD codec workflow for the Editors to speed up the imports and decrease the filesize on the animations. The issue I have now discovered is the DNxHD is NOT Straight or Non Pre-Multiplied as we like to say regardless of what the settings say. It is in fact Pre-Mulitplied. I hadn't noticed until I had a white text animation random fading in over a bright shot and it was going all gray on the fading parts and I happened to be standing there in the edit room when he imported it. We had some issues before on the animations not looking good and now I know why, they were all matted.

Anyone else dealing with this? Work around other than going back to Animation codec? Adobe, is this a bug? I'll do some testing and see if AME is any different but I doubt it.

Thanks for any replies!

Brad

[Dave_LaRonde]

There's something weird going on with DNxHD in AE CC 2017 -- can't say exactly what.  I am VERY grateful that I can only run AE CC 2015 -- orders from the Home Office, y'know.  Others will have to elaborate.

In the meantime, how 'bout JPEG 2000 or PNG?  Both compress losslessly and support alpha channels.  But it's tough to beat Animation if you're making lower thirds.  Because of the large amount of blank screen, the file size can be very compact.

[Kevin-Monahan]

Hi Brad,

Sorry for this issue. I have heard about similar issues. I have a feeling it has to do with our custom QuickTime Libraries on Windows. Can you please file a bug while I look into this issue?

Thanks,
Kevin

[Rick Gerard]

The Avid codecs have been problematic many times over the last few years. I've completely abandoned them unless the client specifically requires that format. I use the Cineware 10 bit you can get free from GoPro for most of my DI work (it may be included with AE now but I don't remember). It's visually lossless, 10 bit, supports alpha channels and works on PC and Mac just fine.

[-Jaydude-]

On Mac we have the same issue. The Output template says 'Straight', but the render to Avid with alpha is pre-multiplied.

Like Dave said: hard to beat the Animation-codec. Would be great if some open-source-group makes an update to the lossless animation-codec, with support for 16 and 32 bpc.

[Rick Gerard]

You can also try Cineform (GoPro), it's 10 bit and works on all operating systems or JPEG 2000, only 8 bit. Both support alphas. Personally I use Cineform all the time for DIs (Digital intermediates)

[Brad L.]

Interesting Kevin now in that Adobe has announced the end of support for the Quicktime libraries (I believe I read somewhere) and are going with native support on a few codecs that still need to be supported. Wonder if this issue may be affected or resolved. I just updated to 2018 CC and I will give it a test if indeed the QT is now MIA.

[Kevin-Monahan]

Let us know what happens. If you really need support for this codec, and it is not working, do let me know.

Thanks,
Kevin

[Brad L.]

Okay. The codec (DNxHD / DNxHR) is favored by our Sr. Editor because it does not need to be reprocessed by Avid on the way in, it just sucks in the frames as fast as the bandwidth and disks allow whereas ALL other codecs must be recompiled on the way in and take much longer.

[tanzblume]

On Mac there is this problem too.

There is something wrong. After reimport "Straight" Alpha rendered clips are "premultiplied".

It isn't possible to change footage settings. Footage is show "straight" alpha, but changing to premutliplied doesn't help.

The footage looks in every setting faded to black.

We are going to change our workflow to Apple ProRes. Very unsatisfied.

[Dave_LaRonde]

ProRes QT's can work on Avids without conversion to MXF?  How so?  What Avid settings allow that?  I can't keep track of all the Avid settings.

[tanzblume]

No, there will be a transcoding, because Timeline settings on our Avid are set to AVC-Intra 100.

But we need clips with alpha channel.

[Dave_LaRonde]

Hmmm... that's how my Avid's set up too, and I use alphas all the time.

I make Quicktimes in the proper dimensions & frame rate, straight alpha channel, Animation codec.  I just drag 'em into a bin, and Avid does the rest -- I just tried it.

A couple of warnings -- you can NOT have an audio track on the animations. Doesn't work that way.    You will be forced to choose between having an alpha with no sound, or having sound but no alpha. And if you don't see "Creating Video Fill" first as your non-audio-track alpha channel animation imports, there's a setting wrong in Avid someplace.  Good luck finding it.