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Background layers behaving badly

Community Expert ,
Mar 14, 2017 Mar 14, 2017

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I'm confused by the behavior of a background layer in one specific file. Is it me? (probably) The file? The software?

Background: this came up in class yesterday, prompting my student to ask, "What is the point of a locked background layer?" My eloquent response: "ummm".

CC 2017.1: normal behavior when you try to move a background layer with the Move tool.

Photoshop CCss_004.png

CC 2017.1 with this specific file open. When you drag the background layer, it just moves and renames itself Layer 0.

Photoshop CCss_006.png

Before you tell me it's not a "real" background layer (I've been tricked before by floating layers renamed "Background" and locked), Photoshop thinks it is. New > Background from Layer and Flatten are not available.

Photoshop CCss_005.png

In CC 2015.5 with the same file, I get the same behavior. BUT, in CS6 with the exact same file open, I get the expected message:

Photoshopss_001.png

What am I missing here?

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

Community Expert , Mar 14, 2017 Mar 14, 2017

Hi

Just had some more play with this (including the PSD shared by PM)

First - forget the comments on italics - I am on Windows and this "problem file" shows in italics also. So that was a red herring.

However I am seeing the same as Jane. If I open a PSD with a background layer , I can move it.

If I open a TIFF with a background layer I can't.

Making the layer a normal layer then a background layer does not alter this behaviour in either case.

So a bit of testing :

Starting with a brand new document -

...

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Community Expert ,
Mar 14, 2017 Mar 14, 2017

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Can you provide the file?

"What is the point of a locked background layer?"

Without a Background Layer a psd file has transparency which may be somewhat of an issue in layout applications.

Also if a psd-file has only the Background Layer there is no need for a »preview«, so the file size is smaller. (Edit: at least with Maximized Compatibility)

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Community Expert ,
Mar 14, 2017 Mar 14, 2017

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Hi

There is one thing that looks unusual - but it may be different on your system.

In the layers panel on mine - a genuine background layer has the title "Background" in italics in the layers panel

A partially locked layer (e.g transparency only locked) named background has the title in non-italics.

Yours looks like the latter, but there doesn't appear to be a partial lock set in your layers panel either. It would be good to see the file.

Dave

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Community Expert ,
Mar 14, 2017 Mar 14, 2017

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I am looking at the same file from Classroom in a Book. Here it is in CC2014

Opening the exact same file in CC2017 does what Barb says. I am testing with the version that shipped with CC 2014.

Taking it a step further, going to Layer > New, I can convert this layer from a Background layer to a regular layer. When I do, it becomes a Layer 0 and all of the locks come off.

Only after it has been converted to a regular layer can it be converted back into a Background layer.

And doing so puts it into a non-italicized Background layer.

I noticed this weird behavior last week and meant to explore it to see if I was really seeing what I thought I was seeing.

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Community Expert ,
Mar 14, 2017 Mar 14, 2017

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First of all, CP & Dave, thank you for looking at this. I'll pm a link to the file (it's part of classroom materials so there are licensing issues).

A couple of thoughts:

  1. I no longer see italics on "real" background layers. Is that a Mac/Windows thing? It used to be consistent. El Capitan—no italics on CS6, CC 2015.5 or 2017.1. Yet in a screen shot in the workbook, the word Background is italicized, as it should be, and as per Dave's response. (Yes, I reset Prefs.)
  2. That snowy image that produced the expected error message? Turns out it was a JPG. As soon as I saved it as .PSD, it did the same thing. (Feature? Bug? Preference?)
  3. Finally—and the crux of the matter—if I lock an element in Ai or In, it stays locked until I figure out to unlock it. It strikes me as odd that a new user can unlock a layer by inadvertently dragging over it.

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Community Expert ,
Mar 14, 2017 Mar 14, 2017

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I tried it on a few more files.

This message comes up on tiffs and jpegs. If it's a psd, you can whisk it out of sight with the Move tool and it unlocks without asking. It is no longer italicized. I am on Yosemite. So it's not an El Capitan issue.

It is not supposed to be this way, imho. But then I've only been using Photoshop for 23 years.

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Community Expert ,
Mar 14, 2017 Mar 14, 2017

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I booted up my Surface (Win 10) and the italics are back in place, so that must be a Mac thing.

But yes, even on Windows you can drag a background layer and simultaneously unlock, rename, convert it to a floating layer without any actual intention of doing so—which is a typical new user scenario, and how this came up in the first place.

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Community Expert ,
Mar 14, 2017 Mar 14, 2017

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I get not need a Background layer—it has not been required since 5.5 (not CS). I don't get not honoring the Lock icon.

Making it a regular layer and then locking it honors the lock, for what it's worth. Then this message comes up:

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Community Expert ,
Mar 14, 2017 Mar 14, 2017

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Hi

Just had some more play with this (including the PSD shared by PM)

First - forget the comments on italics - I am on Windows and this "problem file" shows in italics also. So that was a red herring.

However I am seeing the same as Jane. If I open a PSD with a background layer , I can move it.

If I open a TIFF with a background layer I can't.

Making the layer a normal layer then a background layer does not alter this behaviour in either case.

So a bit of testing :

Starting with a brand new document - I can't move the background layer.

Save as a TIFF I can't move the background layer.

Save as a PSB and once again I can't move the background layer.

Save as a PSD I can move the background layer.

Resave as PSB or TIFF and I can't move the background layer

This looks like a bug when the document is a PSD.

Dave

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Community Expert ,
Mar 14, 2017 Mar 14, 2017

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That's it! I'll report it. Thank you!!

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Community Expert ,
Mar 14, 2017 Mar 14, 2017

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Already have done Barb

Dave

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LEGEND ,
Mar 14, 2017 Mar 14, 2017

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Just tested on my Win 10 workstation running PS CC 2017.0.1. Indeed, the Move tool automatically unlocks the background. However, by adding a new blank layer, Photoshop throws error "Could not use the move tool because the layer is locked."

1.jpg

I don't see any reason Adobe would have changed this intentionally.

I think a bug report over at feedback.photoshop.com would be a good idea.

Edit:​ Should have checked for new replies before I walked away and came back

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Community Expert ,
Mar 14, 2017 Mar 14, 2017

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Have also raised here Background layer bug? - Photoshop CC2017.0.1 | Photoshop Family Customer Community

If anyone wishes to add comment or "me too" please do so.

Dave

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LEGEND ,
Mar 14, 2017 Mar 14, 2017

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Added a "Me-Too" and a comment

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Community Expert ,
Mar 14, 2017 Mar 14, 2017

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Interesting that if you add a new layer, you can no longer move the background layer. Not only that, but there is no alert of any kind.

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LEGEND ,
Mar 14, 2017 Mar 14, 2017

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Hmm, I do get the alert. Strange!

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Community Expert ,
Mar 14, 2017 Mar 14, 2017

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Very!

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Community Expert ,
Mar 14, 2017 Mar 14, 2017

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You could make a video of background layers Behaving badly, then make another of adjustment layers gone wild. Sorry, couldn't resist.

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Community Expert ,
Mar 14, 2017 Mar 14, 2017

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Lol!

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Community Expert ,
Mar 15, 2017 Mar 15, 2017

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Great title for a MAX presentation, Chuck Uebele​!

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