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Help?! Print Marks are showing up in the bleed area rather than at page edge?

Advisor ,
May 04, 2017 May 04, 2017

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So forgive me - I'm usually fairly knowledgeable when it comes to InDesign but for some reason I find myself wondering if this is a genuine issue that I have caused for one of the printing companies we use as a supplier or not.

I've designed a pull-up for a new product....Literally as it sounds... the graphic is rolled in a metal base frame which then pulls up and is kept displayed by the use of a light aluminium pole and clips etc....

Anyway...

The problem is that the Print marks etc are showing up inside the bleed area rather than at the document edge like so in the final PDF output:

2017-05-04_14-24-38.png

I haven't changed my export to PDF settings or anything for a while and its always looked OK before...
Certainly haven't had a supplier come back for a while and say the artwork is wrong etc...

My Work Rig specs are:

InDesign CC2017

Windows 10 Pro

i7 Processor.

8 GB RAM

SSD

Is this an actual issue or is this just a case where the supplier has got someone new into the company who doesn't know what they are doing?

Many thanks,

EW

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

Community Expert , May 04, 2017 May 04, 2017

If you are worried about it you can push out the marks by making the offset the same as the bleed. Here my Marks>Offset is equal to the .375" bleed amount:

Screen Shot 2017-05-04 at 10.17.20 AM.png

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Community Expert ,
May 04, 2017 May 04, 2017

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The problem is that the Print marks etc are showing up inside the bleed area rather than at the document edge like so in the final PDF output:

It looks like you have included bleed marks but not crop marks and the bleed amount is large. So the marks can be inside the bleed but would never be inside the trim. Here I have a .375" bleed:

Screen Shot 2017-05-04 at 10.13.29 AM.png

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Community Expert ,
May 04, 2017 May 04, 2017

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If you are worried about it you can push out the marks by making the offset the same as the bleed. Here my Marks>Offset is equal to the .375" bleed amount:

Screen Shot 2017-05-04 at 10.17.20 AM.png

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Advisor ,
May 04, 2017 May 04, 2017

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Hi https://forums.adobe.com/people/rob%20day​ - Rob:

[Tagging still not working on chrome with Jive it seems...]

Apologies my example was too zoomed out to effectively show. Crop marks are also present.

2017-05-04_16-34-01.png

The pull up (or roller banner) is 850 mm W x 2000 mm H with a 10 mm bleed top, left and right. As well as an additional 150 mm bleed to the bottom to allow for where the banner can essentially sometimes get pulled higher or lower than the base.

Does the Offset make a difference to the bottom crop as well as it appears in the edge of the crop like so:

2017-05-04_16-34-48.png

Instead of at the edge of the page/bleed:

2017-05-04_16-40-16.png

The thing is that I have had no issue supplying exactly the same set up documents for banners before with the information as you can see in the screenshot to this print company before which is the main reason why I am wondering if it is them or me who has done the wrong thing.

Best wishes,

EW

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Advisor ,
May 04, 2017 May 04, 2017

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All screenshots are taken from the final PDF btw...

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Community Expert ,
May 04, 2017 May 04, 2017

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Does the Offset make a difference to the bottom crop as well as it appears in the edge of the crop like so:

Yes. the offset affects all of the marks except for the bleed marks, which are always at the corner of the bleed area. If it's a composite printer I would just provide crop marks.

Screen Shot 2017-05-04 at 11.54.48 AM.png

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Advisor ,
May 04, 2017 May 04, 2017

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https://forums.adobe.com/people/rob+day  wrote

Does the Offset make a difference to the bottom crop as well as it appears in the edge of the crop like so:

Yes. the offset affects all of the marks except for the bleed marks, which are always at the corner of the bleed area. If it's a composite printer I would just provide crop marks.

So does that mean I'm doomed if the marks aren't all unilaterally the same such as with the 150 mm bleed to the bottom compared with the top?

Best,

EW

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Community Expert ,
May 04, 2017 May 04, 2017

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So does that mean I'm doomed if the marks aren't all unilaterally the same such as with the 150 mm bleed to the bottom compared with the top?

Just to be clear on terms the bleed is the distance from the crop (trim) marks to the outer bleed boundary—it shouldn't need to be 150mm (5.9"). So below is an export with the default marks and a .125" bleed. The green line is the trim and the outer black line is the bleed.

The crop marks catch some of the bleed, but they are offset by the default 2mm and everything outside of the trim line will get cut off (including the crop marks) unless the printer can't accurately trim within the 2mm tolerance. If I were to increase the bleed amount as in my #1, the document title would be inside of the bleed area, but would still get trimmed off.

Screen Shot 2017-05-04 at 12.19.01 PM.png

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Advisor ,
May 05, 2017 May 05, 2017

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Understood. Perhaps then it is the way they had me set up the document in the first place as usually I make a bleed that is equal all the way around - which normally is given a 3mm bleed or 5mm max.

Perhaps instead of extending the bleed I should have actually extended the document by the desired extra bleed at the bottom and then simply used rulers to mark what is "bleed" and what is not.

Thanks for your answers all the same.

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Adobe Employee ,
May 05, 2017 May 05, 2017

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Hi James,

I would also like to add a case wherein my page size<<printer page size.

1.I created a document with the following page size and bleed slug settings

2. I then print it as PDF format

3. Now when I open the file in Acrobat, I see my marks outside the bleed and on the page edge (below is the pdf output screenshot)

-Aman

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Advisor ,
May 05, 2017 May 05, 2017

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Hi Aman,

I'm afraid I've read this twice and don't really follow with regards to what you are getting at?

Sorry.

Best,

James (EW)

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Adobe Employee ,
May 05, 2017 May 05, 2017

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Hi,

what is the page size of the document and the page size of the page on which the printer is printing?

I was just trying to figure out when the "print marks are shown in bleed and not on page edge"

-Aman

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Community Expert ,
May 05, 2017 May 05, 2017

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I was just trying to figure out when the "print marks are shown in bleed and not on page edge"

Whether the cropmarks overlap an object in the bleed area depends on the Offset amount—if the offset is the same as the bleed amount there will be no overlap. Your capture doesn't have a page item in the bleed area, and the bleed dimension is too small (1.4pt) so it's hard to tell.

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Adobe Employee ,
May 05, 2017 May 05, 2017

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Hi Rob,

I am attaching New screenshots.

My Document presets:

My print dialog box:

And my output:

What am i missing?

if the offset is the same as the bleed amount there will be no overlap.

According to me, to make printer’s marks  - not show up on bleed - the offset value should be greater than the bleed..

-Aman

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Community Expert ,
May 05, 2017 May 05, 2017

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According to me, to make printer’s marks  - not show up on bleed - the offset value should be greater than the bleed..

Your bleed is 2p4.436 and the offset is 2p. Make the offset 2p436.

The default marks setting overlaps the cropmarks onto the bleed because in most cases (at least with offset) the trimmer isn't going to need the full 1/8" bleed.

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Adobe Employee ,
May 05, 2017 May 05, 2017

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LATEST

Thanks Rob

-Aman

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Advisor ,
May 05, 2017 May 05, 2017

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Sure amaarora and https://forums.adobe.com/people/rob%20day :

Here's everything you asked about and the original email in response to the pull up I had already designed... This 150 mm bleed was then added and the artwork extended so it would still look right when pulled out of the mechanism.

Hi James,

Thanks for your time on the phone just then. As discussed, the banner we are printing is 850x2000m, however we also need an extra 150mm at the bottom to go into the mechanism totalling 850x12150mm.  Please also pop 10mm bleed on each side on top of this. If you could resend within the next 30 minutes that would be great please.

Thanks

Katie

My document settings were then adjusted to this:

2017-05-05_15-15-29.png

Which made my export bleed settings this:

2017-05-05_15-16-31.png

I then submitted this as requested and re-used these settings for the future banner (the one I made recently) which is where I have run into the issue with the same print company saying that it had problems.

If I hadn't already made the file the way it was before they wanted the 150 mm extra I would have incorporated it into the doc setup and used a ruler to know roughly what would be visible and what wouldn't. However, having previously messed around with the doc set up when you have already got rulers set up etc. tends to throw everything and make much more work.

As I mentioned - I normally include all print marks as this makes them much more flexible for any of our associated manufacturers or linked distributors that would like to use them as well as for our records.

Best,

EW

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Community Expert ,
May 05, 2017 May 05, 2017

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however we also need an extra 150mm at the bottom to go into the mechanism totalling 850x12150mm.

This 150 mm bleed was then added and the artwork extended so it would still look right when pulled out of the mechanism.

They're not really asking for a 150mm bleed. I think your document has to be set up as 850mm x 2150mm with a 10mm bleed, and with margin guides showing the visible area. I would think this would work—150mm bottom margin and a 9mm offset in Marks and Bleeds:

Screen Shot 2017-05-05 at 11.47.19 AM.png

Screen Shot 2017-05-05 at 11.14.03 AM.png

Screen Shot 2017-05-05 at 11.17.27 AM.png

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Community Expert ,
May 05, 2017 May 05, 2017

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However, having previously messed around with the doc set up when you have already got rulers set up etc. tends to throw everything and make much more work.

You could try changing the page size via the Page tool rather than the document size. In that case you can use the Transform panel to resize the page from the upper left corner.

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Community Expert ,
May 05, 2017 May 05, 2017

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Perhaps instead of extending the bleed I should have actually extended the document by the desired extra bleed at the bottom and then simply used rulers to mark what is "bleed" and what is not.

There's never a case where you would want to build the bleed into the document dimensions because then the crop marks will no longer be accurate.

Can you show us the Marks and Beeds tab of the Export settings you used for the questioned PDF?

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Adobe Employee ,
May 04, 2017 May 04, 2017

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Hi,

Just to add what to Rob said, can you also see what happens when you check this option in the pdf export option?

Also, you can see the marks nicely in Acrobat (mine is 2017 latest) if you Goto Preferences (ctrl+k) then navigate to Page Display and enable the marks in Page Content and information.

-Aman

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Advisor ,
May 04, 2017 May 04, 2017

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Done that already thanks @amaarora! It's when it goes for print from their side that is the issue.

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Community Expert ,
May 04, 2017 May 04, 2017

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I've designed a pull-up for a new product....Literally as it sounds... the graphic is rolled in a metal base frame which then pulls up and is kept displayed by the use of a light aluminium pole and clips etc....

Also I doubt you need color controls and registration marks—this must be for a composite printer right?

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Advisor ,
May 04, 2017 May 04, 2017

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https://forums.adobe.com/people/rob+day  wrote

I've designed a pull-up for a new product....Literally as it sounds... the graphic is rolled in a metal base frame which then pulls up and is kept displayed by the use of a light aluminium pole and clips etc....

Also I doubt you need color controls and registration marks—this must be for a composite printer right?

Yeah I probably don't need to supply them but I normally do it as part of my own written procedures for the company I work for as we have a habit of needing to dig things out and re-using them or using them as is.

So I prefer to keep a copy with all possible print information so that our digital files are more organised and smaller in size because there are only multiple versions of the same document when strictly necessary.

This is more a question for future knowledge rather than directly handling my print supplier... I've quickly knocked together a version with only Crop, Bleed and Slug.  Which I am hoping will still come out OK.

But yeah.

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Community Expert ,
May 04, 2017 May 04, 2017

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Which I am hoping will still come out OK.

If they are requesting more than the standard .125" bleed, you might want to also increase the offset. Do they have a problem trimming accurately?

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