Saving in PS deletes Lightroom adjustments on that PSD-file

[micher_micher]

Hi there 🙂

As the title says... to elaborate, let me describe what i do:

1. In Lightroom, select a RAW file and open it in PS

2. Process in PS, save (a new file is created, a PSD)

3. Make lightroom adjustments to that PSD

4. Find that i need more pixel-level processing to that file, open that original PSD in PS (no new file created)

5. Process in PS, save file (no new file created)

6. Lightroom adjustments from Point 3 are gone!

Can anybody help me please? Lots of lost work already -.-

Please keep in mind that my problem could be confused with the one from this thread (Keeping LR Adjustments when saving from photoshop ) but is actually something different.

Thank you!

Micha

[Just Shoot Me]

How are you opening the PSD file that you did LR adjustments on? From inside LR using the Edit In > PS option or some other way.

If from within LR you should get a Dialog box asking, Open with LR adjustments, Open a Copy or Open original.

If you select Open original you won't get whatever LR edits you did to that PSD. You have to select open with LR Adjustments to have the LR edits carry over and then create another new PSD file in PS.

[JoeKostoss]

That has not been my experience.  On my iMac when I make Lightroom adjustments to the psd then reopen the "original" in PS and make more pixel edits, when the new psd image returns to Lightroom, the Lightroom edits to the old psd are still there on the newly revised psd image.

Added:  In doing this, you will not see the LR edits to the psd file in PS, but they do show up in Lightroom after the file is saved back to Lightroom.

[micher_micher]

Yes Joe, that's exactly what i want to happen, but it isn't happening on my PC atm.

[micher_micher]

Hey, thank you for your answer!

Yes opening from within LR.

However, you describe how i can choose to have the adjustments get baked into a new PSD file. That's not what i meant.

I show you the problem in this video. At 2:15 there's a boring part where it takes forever to save the file, you can skip that bit and jump to 3:24 (sorry i couldn't edit it out).

LR/PS Problem - YouTube

Hope this shows the problem more clearly.

Micha

[Just Shoot Me]

I notice you are using PS 2015.5 and not the most current version 2017.1.1.

What version of LR are you currently using. The newest is 2015.10.1.

I just tried what you describe and get all the newer LR edits included with the base PSD file after making changes in PS from the original.

I think it has to do with the versions of LR and PS you are using. There was a bug in one or the other that caused this. IIRC you can also use the History to restore the LR edits by selecting the last, top most, history entry.

[micher_micher]

Yes, thanks for pointing that out! I 've just updated to LR 2015.10.1 and PS 2017.1.1.

However, the problem remains 😕

[Just Shoot Me]

Shut down PS and LR, Restart your system and test.

If that doesn't help trash the LR Preferences and test.

I'm using Windows (7).

[micher_micher]

Did restart, no change.

Did reset LR prefs, no change.

Using Win7, too.

[johnrellis · Accepted solution]

Make sure you've unchecked the LR option Catalog Settings > Metadata > Include Develop Settings In Metadata Inside JPEG, TIFF, PNG, And PSD Files.

In my configuration, when that option is unchecked, LR Develop settings survive the round trip from LR to PS via Edit In > Edit Original.  When that option is checked, the previous Develop settings are discarded.

It's not clear whether this is the intended behavior or a bug, but it's how it currently behaves.

LR CC 2015.10.1 / PS 2015.5.2 / OS 10.12.5

[micher_micher]

Yes, that was it!  🙂

Thank you John, and thank you everyone!

[Just Shoot Me]

I have that option checked and still get all the newer adjustments made in LR to a PSD after sending it back to PS with the Edit Original option.

Original PSD in LR.

Cropped in LR.

Edited in PS. Used the Healing Brush with Replace to place the face of another character in the chest of the foreground character.

Back in LR.

Setting dialog in LR.

So that setting is not stopping it from working on my system.

[johnrellis]

If I have Include Develop Settings checked, it's also necessary to have Automatically Write Changes Into XMP to be checked.   If I check both, round-tripping preserves LR develop settings; if I uncheck just Automatically Write Changes, it doesn't preserve develop settings.

[Just Shoot Me]

Thanks for the clarification on the settings differences. Yes I have both checked.

[johnrellis]

Your screenshot is what prompted me to investigate further...

[Todd Shaner]

John I can confirm the same behavior on my Windows 7 SP1 system with the below Metadata option checked using LR CC 2015.10.1 and PS 2017.1.1. There's a similar issue reported in the Photoshop Family forum here:

Lightroom CC 2015.1.1: Develop module doesn't detect external changes to original file | Photoshop F...

I can't see how this would be the "intended" behavior. An Edit in PS operation that doesn't use the Camera Raw plugin should not modify the embedded Develop settings data. If I remove and reimport the Edit in PS PSD file inside LR the Develop settings are completely gone. That can't be right, correct?

[Just Shoot Me]

trshaner  wrote

If I remove and reimport the Edit in PS PSD file inside LR the Develop settings are completely gone. That can't be right, correct?

Sure that is correct. All the real edits used for the modified file is stored in the catalog file. Removing that file from the catalog wipes out all edits. Even with those options checked.

[Todd Shaner]

1) Set below option to include Develop settings in PSD files.

2) Create Edit in PS PSD file.

3) Apply LR Develop settings to the PSD file.

4) Use the CTRL+S keys to Save Metadata to file inside LR.

5) Remove PSD file from LR (NOT Delete).

6) Synchronize folder or reimport PSD file into LR.

You will see that the LR Develop edits are reapplied.

7) With the PSD file selected Edit in PS> Original File.

8) Apply any edit inside PS (NOT using the Camera Raw plugin).

9) Save File in PS.

10) Look at PSD file inside LR - Develop settings appear missing in the catalog.

11) Remove PSD file from LR (NOT Delete).

12) Synchronize folder or reimport PSD file into LR.

You will see that the metadata embedded LR Develop edits are also missing.

[johnrellis]

I agree that the behavior seems inconsistent.

[DdeGannes]

@trshaner, I am not sure if I follow your trend of thought.

If you use the "edit in feature" from Lightroom to Photoshop info is sent to Photoshop to apply either Lightroom edits or Original file without Lightroom settings.

In both scenarios after working in Photoshop and saving your work a new PSD file is created leaving the original file in the Lightroom Catalog untouched. Why would you expect to see your "LR Develop Edits" in this new file. The edits would have been "baked" into the new file. ?????

The Catalog settings Dialog Box you show, is a Lightroom Dialog settings not a Photoshop settings. To wit Lightroom and Photoshop are two individual applications.

[Todd Shaner]

As John Ellis said, "It's not clear whether this is the intended behavior or a bug, but it's how it currently behaves. I agree that the behavior seems inconsistent."

If you have 'Include Develop settings in metadata" checked, apply LR Develop edits to a non-raw file, Save Metadata to File (CTRL+S), open the file directly from inside PS (File Open), edit and Save the file, the LR Develop settings in both the file metadata and the LR catalog remain unchanged. The only change made to the file is a destructive (or layers implemented) pixel data edit as expected.

If you do this using LR Edit in PS> Edit Original the LR Develop settings in both the file metadata and the catalog are removed.

Clearly LR and PS behave differently when editing non-raw files with embedded Develop setting metadata. So what is the "correct" or preferred behavior?

[DdeGannes]

As I said Lightroom and Photoshop are completely different and individual applications.

Lightroom default function is that the info is in the Catalog file.

While Photoshop/ Adobe Camera Raw the info is stored in the file, so completely different workflows.

I prefer the Lightroom default the info is in the Catalog, so I do not use .XMP files or DNG files period. I always know where my info is, in the Catalog.

If you are working with RAW files you have a option use the Adobe Camera Raw / Bridge option or use the Lightroom option, using both only causes more management issues.

[DdeGannes]

Quote "If you do this using LR Edit in PS> Edit Original the LR Develop settings in both the file metadata and the catalog are removed."

This is as expected and logical if you are editing the original file why would you expect any thing else to be included. To wit info is not removed just not included.

[Todd Shaner]

DdeGannes  wrote

Quote "If you do this using LR Edit in PS> Edit Original the LR Develop settings in both the file metadata and the catalog are removed."

This is as expected and logical if you are editing the original file why would you expect any thing else to be included. To wit info is not removed just not included.

DdeGannes please read JoeKostoss reply # 24. That is in fact the subject heading and issue of this post.

Saving in PS deletes Lightroom adjustments on that PSD-file

The workaround for now is to 1) uncheck 'Include Develop settings in metadata inside JPEG, TIFF, etc.' in the Catalog Settings OR 2) check both that setting and 'Automatically write changes into XMP.' With either of these Catalog settings (1 or 2) the LR Develop settings are retained when using Edit in PS> Edit Original. I'm not sure when this behavior changed because I rarely use 'Include Develop settings in metadata inside JPEG, TIFF, etc.' Catalog Setting. I believe it was working properly in LR 5 and earlier versions.

I also appreciate and understand the confusion as to expected behavior if you rarely use Edit in PS > Edit Original. I've used it for years when processing film scanner TIFF files, applying many cumulative operations in both PS and LR on a single file, with no issues or loss of LR Develop settings. There are numerous other applications where this capability is useful. You can't see the LR edits inside PS when using 'Edit Original,' but for many operations that is of little consequence. The only other alternative is to use 'Open as a Smart Object,' which is overkill for most PS editing purposes, creates a very large file, and requires using the Camera Raw plugin for editing the embedded raw file.

[johnrellis]

Lightroom CC 2015.1.1: Develop module doesn't detect external changes to original file | Photoshop F...

I think that's a different issue.  In that bug, LR wasn't fully recognizing edits made in PS.  But in this situation here, LR is discarding edits made in LR.