30 Replies Latest reply on Jul 29, 2017 3:41 PM by Trevor.Dennis

    Any one pre-order the new X299 motherboard with an Intel I9 processor?

    Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

      Just curious how many people jump at these new super components.  They are high on my wish list but I have to justify every dollar these days.

        • 1. Re: Any one pre-order the new X299 motherboard with an Intel I9 processor?
          RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

          x299 is being pushed out early to compete with amd, so i would advise waiting a month or two after the release to see if any issues are found. the big price drops and new 12-18 core cpu's are a response to competition from amd. so anyone buying intel should send a thank you to amd, as amd have saved them $400-700+ by forcing intel to lower prices.

          • 2. Re: Any one pre-order the new X299 motherboard with an Intel I9 processor?
            Trevor.Dennis Adobe Community Professional

            I was initially excited about the new processors and chipset, but the more I read, the more uncertain I have become.  The high TDP is one concern.  My current 3930K system sits on carpet under a desk with the wall behind it, and is running damn hot nowadays.  In fact I just checked, and it is at 83-89°C at idle (EDIT: but with several apps including Photoshop running.  It sits at 60°C at idle with just a browser window and Speccy running — I'll still be pulling it out for a clean up first opportunity), so time to pull it out and clean the fans and radiator.  But I would need to improve things with an i9 processor like sitting it on wood and running ducting to improve air flow.

             

            Cost is not a huge issue, but at the same time spending the dollars has to make sense.  Having said that, and having got myself somewhat up to speed with Ryzen, I suspect I'll end up going with X299.  I was planning to wait and see how things develop, but after checking Specky just now, it looks like I need to do some work right now.

             

            Bill do any of the motherboards already announced take your fancy?

            • 3. Re: Any one pre-order the new X299 motherboard with an Intel I9 processor?
              Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

              Trevor

              You have to remember I am an experimenter first and a video editor second so my likes are not always the most practical.  My current motherboard is an ASUS x99-E WS to give me maximum flexibility like I can (and have) put 3 x16 GPU's in this motherboard or on the other the hand I have run 4 of the new super speed M.2 SSD's simultaneously.  So my choices might not be a practical for the typical editor.

               

              Bill

               

              • 4. Re: Any one pre-order the new X299 motherboard with an Intel I9 processor?
                RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                here is some random x299 info for anyone interested. note- these are just from news stories i've read, so i cannot confirm these.

                 

                1) intel decided to save some pennies and therefore skylake-x will not have soldered on IHS's. so in addition to very high watts when overclocked, folks are reporting very high temps. 280-360+ mm liquid cooling may be more commonplace for anyone overclocking.

                 

                2) intel has been changing chipset compatibility with xeon cpu's, removing xeon support from main-stream platforms. this may follow with x299 and it might not support xeon. this may not be a big deal for buying new, but may remove upgrade options from cheap used server xeon's.

                 

                3) only the 10-18 core cpu's offer 44 pcie lanes. 6 & 8 core cpu's will offer 28 lanes, while the 4 core models offer 16 lanes. many x299 motherboards appear to only offer x16/x8/x4 with the 28 lane cpu's, but there appear to be a few that offer x8/x8/x8. there are some motherboards that only offer x16/x8/x1 with the 28 lane cpu's.

                 

                4) x299 chipset will now offer pcie gen 3.0, where as x99 only offered gen 2.0. this allows for the m.2 ssd's to run off the chipset, rather than use up valuable or limited cpu pcie lanes.

                 

                5) optane memory - right now optane is only offered as a cache solution. this will be targeting cheap off-the-shelf computers that only come with a hdd. for any computer using a ssd(s) it will serve no purpose and shouldn't be an issue for builds here.

                 

                6) kaby lake X - this is perhaps the most confusing part of x299, a so called "high end desktop platform" offering 4c/4t and 4c/8t cpu's. these kaby lake X cpu's will also have the intel graphics disabled, still only offer dual channel memory support, and only 16 pcie lanes. intel claims these cpu's are for upgrade path options, but with motherboards costing so much to enter x299 it doesn't make sense. anyone dealing with a budget that tight should be using amd ryzen and not wasting money on an expensive motherboard with features they can't use. some people, myself included, think this is intel attempting to make another change to their chipset platform and restrict overclocking to the HEDT (x299). if that's true we might see unlocked cpu's only offered on x299 and removed from the next main stream release of coffee lake, or perhaps the next main stream platform after that if intel wants to do this more gradually.

                 

                7) motherboard raid has some big changes - intel has added support for m.2 motherboard raid, but appears they have some limitations. the news stories say motherboard raid will only support m.2 raid-0 for free, and other levels of m.2 raid will require a hardware key to unlock. worse yet, the news stories also report that motherboard raid will only work with intel ssd's. if this is true its a very very anti-consumer move by intel to lock down their platform and force users into purchasing intel m.2 ssd's and expensive hardware keys. for most builds here we won't need raid m.2's, and if someone does they might be fine using windows raid instead.

                 

                8) prices - some big price drops, but only at the 8 core cpu and up. while the 8 core cpu got a decent price drop, it also got the pcie lane count dropped from 40 with last gen cpu's, to 28 lanes. while these price drops will be welcome, and a direct response to amd's offerings, intel seems to be cutting corners with pcie lanes and thermal paste, and trying to make up for lost money by trying to force folks into buying intel ssd's and raid hardware keys. with intel building walled gardens and charging 2x the price of amd cpu's, some people are calling intel the new apple.

                • 5. Re: Any one pre-order the new X299 motherboard with an Intel I9 processor?
                  RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                  this just came out,

                  https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Premiere-Pro-CC-2017-1-2-CPU-Comparison-Skylake -X-Kaby-Lake-X-Broadwell-E-Sky…

                   

                  it appears skylake-X is between 5-10% faster than broadwell-E. the performance gains appears to be linked to the faster default clock speeds of skylake-X, which is also around 10% higher. for the most part puget paints intel in a positive light in their article and continues to dismiss amd ryzen. the benchmarks show the intel 8-core around 20% faster than the amd ryzen 1700x, but it costs 50% more. of course there will be bigger differences in performance when overclocking in favor of intel, but also more value for amd when overclocking the entry level amd 8-core cpu at 1/2 the price. the cost of the motherboards for x299 are also around 2-3x as expensive vs amd x370, which creates an even bigger price gap.

                  • 6. Re: Any one pre-order the new X299 motherboard with an Intel I9 processor?
                    Trevor.Dennis Adobe Community Professional

                    I found the Puget Systems X299 article twenty minutes ago, but you beat me to it.   I'd also read their evaluation for Ryzen 1700 and 1800 with Photoshop, which is what I use more than any other app by a big margin, and they came down in favour of Intel because of the higher clock speeds (because most Photoshop functions are lightly threaded).

                     

                    Your round up and evaluation of X299 was very useful to me, so thanks for that.  Although I am flat out trying to get to speed with it all, I started with minimal knowledge, and have some holes.   I'd really appreciate a wee explanation of the various X299 lanes, whether it be 16/8/4, 8/8/8 or whatever.  What should we look for?

                     

                    I have read several reports questioning the Kaby Lake implementation with X299, with a hard hitting video from Linus being one of the most interesting.  You have to laugh at his OTT presentation.

                     

                    You mentioned some very big numbers with liquid cooling (280, 360).  Is that using ganged radiators in series?  How do you even fit so much radiator?  On the top and front of the case is my guess, but it sounds insane!

                     

                    I am not entirely sure about the Intel raid Dongle, but ISTR reading twos stages with costs of $99 and $299, and that it is to avoid clashes undercutting Xeon server systems.  I don't know ho that would work out, and with the now greatly reduced cost of the high end i9X processors, you'd still be saving dollars after paying a $299 surcharge.  Are Intel NVMe drives really that inferior to Samsung Pro/EVO?

                     

                    I am also not sure if the Intel only M.2 drives applies right across the board, or kicks in with the raid configurations that require the Dongles?  It is probably wishful thinking on my part, as if I went with a raid set up, it would be a raid0.   Do you guys remember Noel Carboni?  Before he gave up with the Adobe forums, he'd built a raid0 using six SSDs and was using it for everything.  Note he did not do any video editing.

                     

                    The Pugot Systems test used the i9-7900X, which is what all the other reviews we have so far were using.  My plan is to spend the other $300 and get the 7920X, although I am waiting for the full specs to be released before committing.  The bottom line is that I don't _really_ need 12 cores, and if they lead to lower max boost speed, then that would make it a bad choice.

                    • 7. Re: Any one pre-order the new X299 motherboard with an Intel I9 processor?
                      RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                      toms hardware did their review.

                      Intel Core i9-7900X Review: Meet Skylake-X - Tom's Hardware

                      for their photoshop heavy test the new skylake-X cpu did worse than all the others. it will be interesting to see what puget finds when they release their photoshop article on skylake-x. skylake-x has some new architecture which might be causing some problems. its also a rushed release, so there might be some bios updates that help with problems like these.

                       

                      https://img.purch.com/r/600x450/aHR0cDovL21lZGlhLmJlc3RvZm1pY3JvLmNvbS9NL0EvNjg1MDkwL29yaWdpbmFsLzAyLUFkb2JlLUNDLVBTLUhlYXZ5LnBuZw==

                       

                       

                      since you mostly work on photoshop and want the highest clock speeds, you might want to wait for coffee lake on the main stream platform. the rumors are intel will release a 6 core for the first time on its main stream platform. if they can make the 6 core overclock like the 4 core cpu's, then it might be very fast.

                       

                      280 & 360 rads are single rads and about the largest offered by AIO's. corsair is popular choice for AIO's, but i don't think they sell a 360. some people are reporting for high to extreme overclocking on skylake-X it will take custom liquid cooling for better cooling vs AIO's.

                       

                      cpu pcie lanes with x299 will mostly be for video cards, but could be used for other cards like a raid card, thunderbolt 3, or video i/o. if you just plan on using a single video card, it will use 16 lanes. most builds here will be fine with the 28 lane cpu's, which can run two or three cards with the right motherboard. the main stream platform cpu's have 16 pcie lanes and can run two cards at x8/x8 with the right motherboard.

                       

                      i've also seen several reviewers trash kaby lake-x. i could possibly see the i7 as it does overclock slightly higher, but to offer an i5 on a high end platform is dumb. i still think it only makes sense if intel plans to remove overclocking from their main stream platform and force all overclockers to buy expensive x299 motherboards.

                       

                      right now, yes samsung ssd's are that much better than intel's. when intel releases larger optane ssd's they might be competitive, but we will have to see the reviews. the motherboard raid with m.2 is rumored to require intel m.2's, but samsung's and others should work if not using raid or using windows raid.

                      • 8. Re: Any one pre-order the new X299 motherboard with an Intel I9 processor?
                        Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant
                        1. I agree completely with Ronin.
                        2. I would never bother with water cooling.
                        3. There is no need for RAID 0 when you have speeds like this available.
                        4. I have a seven SSD RAID 3 setting unused for months now see my Storage page.
                        5. If you want to go crazy with storage see this installation of 4 each M.2 super speed SSD's all running at full PCIe x4 speeds.  But with these kind of speeds I cannot visualize any practical purpose for this type on configuration.  But fortunately I had a "workstation" board with lots of PCIe lanes.

                        PICT0295.JPG

                        • 9. Re: Any one pre-order the new X299 motherboard with an Intel I9 processor?
                          RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                          some more news for x299 motherboards. it seems that due to the massive power draw from skylake-x that if planning on overclocking at all a motherboard with a 8pin+4pin should be used. cheapest motherboard with that appears to be $300. also since the x299 platform was rushed by intel, it seems the motherboard mfg's didn't have time to properly test their designs and many motherboard vrm's are overheating. a motherboard designed properly to handle high-to-extreme overclocks could be in the $400-600 range. large noctua air coolers can help keep the vrm cool, but cannot keep up with cpu temps on higher overclocks. cryorig makes an AIO with a fan on it to cool the motherboard, but there are also several reports of cryorig quality being hit or miss. bottom line, anyone planning on overclocking will need to do their homework before buying parts.

                          • 10. Re: Any one pre-order the new X299 motherboard with an Intel I9 processor?
                            Trevor.Dennis Adobe Community Professional

                            Ronin, You have use the AIO acronym now and again.  I can only think it means All-in-One, but I am not getting the context?

                             

                            Regards overclocking, ISTM (Hey, I can do acronyms ) that i9X Turbo-boost 2 is already pushing it with 4.5Ghz, albeit with only two cores.  Are you talking even higher frequencies, or in the same ball park, but right across all cores?

                             

                            I've just had an education browsing the Cryorig site, and have been alerted to the obvious fact that a liquid cooling header does not move any air across other mainboard components.  Note, when I say obvious, it apparently wasn't to me. FWIIW, I spent most of my working life in a small design team producing custom test instrumentation at Ford UK Research & Engineering / Product Development site at Dunton Essex, so I suppose I should be able to work this stuff out.  All I can say is that the older I get, the better I used to be.

                            • 11. Re: Any one pre-order the new X299 motherboard with an Intel I9 processor?
                              jasonvp Level 3

                              RoninEdits  wrote

                               

                              it seems the motherboard mfg's didn't have time to properly test their designs and many motherboard vrm's are overheating.

                              Running hot: yes.  Overheating: no.  The VRMs are good to at least 120ºC and the temps measured so far are ~100º.  It's toasty for sure, but not overheating to the point of damage or danger.  Get away from the reviewers and read what the enthusiasts are doing.  They're overclocking the snot out of the CPUs without any issues whatsoever.

                               

                              bottom line, anyone planning on overclocking will need to do their homework before buying parts.

                              This is always true, of course.  And sorry to those that don't like or want to water cool, but you're going to be left in the dust.  You have to get over your dislike/fear/distaste for water cooling if you're going to play in the X299 world with higher clock rates.  The CPUs are going to run hotter, and your air cooler won't suffice.  It might even make sense to do a single block for the CPU and the motherboard combined.

                               

                              Of course, those of us that adopted to water cooling very early on (such as myself) won't have an issue at all.  The only challenge I can see for myself is biting the bullet and attempting to de-lid the CPU for further cooling.  That's something I'm terrified of doing...

                              • 12. Re: Any one pre-order the new X299 motherboard with an Intel I9 processor?
                                RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                                it was an enthusiast who reported on vrm issues for extreme overclocking. most don't extreme overclock, so it may not be a big issue. we all have different comfort zones and experience levels for overclocking, and i imagine most of the builds here will continue with air or aio's for mid to low overclocks.

                                • 13. Re: Any one pre-order the new X299 motherboard with an Intel I9 processor?
                                  Trevor.Dennis Adobe Community Professional

                                  It's winter here right now, and NZ's idea of keeping your house warm is to put on a jumper and wear a hat indoors, but with my 3930K system out of action, our little room with two computers running 24/7 suddenly became noticeably cold.  So there was obviously lots of heat being generated.

                                   

                                  I fitted the Noctua ND14 yesterday, and it has my CPU temperatures lower than they ever were with the Intel cooler.  This is after five minutes running CPU-Z's 'Stress CPU'.  I have only run the CPU at stock for the last couple of years.  It was running happily at 4.4Ghz when I ran the PPBM5 benchmark five years ago.

                                  The Noctua's two fans are way quieter than the Intel fan ever was, even at low speed, and it howled when ramped up.  Having said all that, I don't dare try air cooling an X299 build.

                                   

                                  A spooky coincidence for you.  When I mentioned that my Intel cooler had died on the Photoshop forum, Dave Richardson said his four year old 3930K build had done the same thing a week before.  He swapped out the Intel system for a Corsair liquid cooling system, and posted these temperatures with the system at idle and stressed. (3930K)

                                  • 14. Re: Any one pre-order the new X299 motherboard with an Intel I9 processor?
                                    Trevor.Dennis Adobe Community Professional

                                    Well this is not good news, but predictable if we are honest.  i9X 12 core (7920X) and beyond will not be available until August through to October.  Assuming that the release dates will be staggered starting with the least complex chips, the 7920X should be available in August.

                                     

                                    Intel Core i9 release dates

                                     

                                    Will the 10 core 7900X work the motherboards hard enough to iron out a few bugs?  I guess folk will be pushing the heck out of them, so hopefully yes.  We are already seeing reports of overheating VRMs when overclocking, and even CPU power cables getting hot on boards that only have the one 8 pin power connector for the CPU.

                                     

                                    Overclocker Claims Intel X299 VRM Temps are a 'Disaster' With Skylake-X - ExtremeTech

                                     

                                    • 15. Re: Any one pre-order the new X299 motherboard with an Intel I9 processor?
                                      jasonvp Level 3

                                      Trevor.Dennis  wrote

                                       

                                      We are already seeing reports of overheating VRMs when overclocking, and even CPU power cables getting hot on boards that only have the one 8 pin power connector for the CPU.

                                       

                                      Everyone is re-quoting the one experiment that went badly, and that was derbauer's(sp).  He used a cheap board with a bad VRM cooler and a single 8-pin power connector.  From that, he, and somehow others all determined that, "X299 VRMs will overheat".

                                       

                                      It's not the case.  The guys over at Overclock have tested boards that are engineered and built properly, and they have some screaming 7900X setups without any heat issues.  Wander over to Linus Tech Tips and a few other early adopters are finding the same thing.

                                       

                                      The results are: buy cheap, get cheap.  X299 is going to be a costly upgrade at first, and early adopters are going to pay through the nose for good, stable performance.  So if you're uninterested in spending money on quality motherboards (and considering water cooling), then it's best to hold off on X299.

                                      • 16. Re: Any one pre-order the new X299 motherboard with an Intel I9 processor?
                                        Trevor.Dennis Adobe Community Professional

                                        From what I understand, der8auer is one of the most respected overclockers in the business, respected enough to be widely quoted by a heap of hardware blogs) and he tested three different motherboards.

                                        He makes the point that the whole X299 i9X thing has been rushed to get ahead of AMD's Threadripper, and that the motherboard manufacturers did not have time to properly design thew board they suddenly had to get ready for Computex.  I suspect that those boards that were announced since Computex tried very hard to get them done in time but failed.  However, we now have some time before Intel releases even the 7900X and below CPUs, and more time still before the 7920X and above CPUs, and the motherboard manufacturers will sort out issues like VRM heat sinks and CPU power lead connectors.

                                         

                                        I am committed to a new build, and have a budget of up to NZ$10K, but I hope to manage with under NZ$8K up front because I'll use my current GTX970 while waiting for the GTX1100 series to be released, and I have a, unused Corsair 850W Gold power supply.  At the moment I have no idea what board I'll use, but I will absolutely take into account the findings of der8auer, Linus Tech, Tom's Hardware, Puget Systems etc.  Are you suggesting that we should ignore the information coming from those sources?

                                         

                                        In the conclusion to this evaluation of X299 and 7900X, Puget Systems states:

                                         

                                        Where are your X299 systems? 

                                        We plan on moving our workstations to X299 in the near future, but we are currently still evaluating and qualifying the different motherboards, CPUs, and related hardware. Puget Systems is committed to only bringing a product to market that is mature and reliable so we rarely offer new hardware immediately at launch. If you are interested in X299 and wish to be notified when we have completed our qualification process, feel free to save a configuration from one of our Lightroom workstations listed below with notes in the comment field expressing your interest in X299. Or simply send us an email at sales@pugetsystems.com

                                         

                                        I'll be putting a lot of weight of what they go with.

                                        • 17. Re: Any one pre-order the new X299 motherboard with an Intel I9 processor?
                                          Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

                                          Trevor.Dennis  wro

                                           

                                            However, we now have some time before Intel releases even the 7900X and below CPUs,

                                          That may be true for you but here is the i9-7900X readily available here.  That is if you really want to be on the "bleeding" edge.  I just checked locally and MicroCenter does also have the i9-7900X and guess what they only have one model to choose from on the x299 motherboard, an ASUS PRIME X299-A LGA 2066 ATX.

                                           

                                          If only I had a couple of thousand dollars, I too, could be on the "bleeding" edge.

                                          • 18. Re: Any one pre-order the new X299 motherboard with an Intel I9 processor?
                                            jasonvp Level 3

                                            Trevor.Dennis  wrote

                                             

                                            From what I understand, der8auer is one of the most respected overclockers in the business, respected enough to be widely quoted by a heap of hardware blogs) and he tested three different motherboards

                                            Again: none of those temperatures are in the danger zone for VRMs.  They're good for 120ºC if not higher.  This is a bit of panic and hysteria for no real good reason.

                                            Are you suggesting that we should ignore the information coming from those sources?

                                            I'm suggesting that you beware of the source and question it always.  In some cases, as in here: they're quoting the same guy and making a big deal over it.  There are plenty of cases on LTT, for example, of folks buying high(er) quality motherboards with excellent VRM heatsinks, and overclocking the snot out of their new 7900X chips.

                                             

                                            Ultimately you're going to believe whichever source or sources you choose.  I'd suggest taking care in making snap decisions based on early and incomplete data, and just wait to see what shakes out.  I'd also recommend that, if you're going to dip your toe into the X299 waters, you spend a lot of money on a good motherboard.  Don't buy ASUS' least expensive board.  Or MSI's.  Or Gigabyte's.  Buy their most expensive board.  There's usually a reason for the cost difference, and in some cases it comes down to different heatsink configurations.

                                             

                                            I'm also not disputing timeliness of the release or any such thing.  I'm not going to get into that debate whatsoever.  Further, there may very well be future optimizations of the chipset, though that does seem less likely.  Ultimately, my recommendation stands: spend the money.  Go expensive or go home.

                                             

                                            And don't immediately discount water cooling, either.  It makes a world of difference once you get over that initial fear phase and just do it.  Again, as with a lot of other PC components: if you choose cheap and/or inexpensive water cooling components, you're just asking for trouble.  Buy quality parts and assemble the loop(s) yourself with patience and care, and you'll have a system that makes near-to zero noise, and cools infinitely better than air alone can.

                                            • 19. Re: Any one pre-order the new X299 motherboard with an Intel I9 processor?
                                              Trevor.Dennis Adobe Community Professional

                                              Jason, I can't help but think we are talking at cross purposes here.  The idea of this thread is to gather _all_ the information we can find on the new chipset and processors, so as to make a full assessment before committing our dollars. I have budgeted NZ$1000 for the board, but will pay whatever it takes to get the MB that best suits my intended use.  i.e. graphics and video, but no games, (so I don't need lots of fancy LED lighting).

                                               

                                              Bill has expressed a preference for air cooling, and I have just swapped out an Intel liquid cooling system for a Noctua ND14 on my 3930K system, but that will soon be going to my wife who mainly just uses web browsers — albeit with an astonishing number of tabs and windows open!  I have found that the Noctua is quieter than the Liquid cooler even at idle, and _way_ quieter when pushing things when the Intel fan used to go crazy.  The Noctua never gets loud enough to hear above the case fans no matter how hard I drive the CPU, and the highest temperature I have seen so far is 60°C.  That is better than the original Intel Liquid Cooler could ever manage.   Having said that, I will definitely go liquid cooler with the X299 system, and I won't be going with minimum recommended spec.  If it is not too much hassle, I'd like to use a non sealed system so I can swap out the pump without having to replace the entire cooling system.

                                               

                                              I won't be looking to go beyond the Turboboost 2 frequencies.

                                              • 20. Re: Any one pre-order the new X299 motherboard with an Intel I9 processor?
                                                jasonvp Level 3

                                                Trevor.Dennis  wrote

                                                 

                                                Jason, I can't help but think we are talking at cross purposes here.

                                                 

                                                i.e. graphics and video, but no games, (so I don't need lots of fancy LED lighting).

                                                As it turns out, those flashy motherboards (which I despise, myself) also make some of the best overclockers, which is why I don't hesitate to jump in.  I just do what I can to disable the silly lighting, et al.  I don't need that garbage either; I just want the hardware that's on the board.  For example, the X99 board that I'm currently using is Asus Rampage V Extreme, which was heavily marketed to the "gamers" with the silly LEDs everywhere.  The key point though is all of the top notch cooling pieces on it, making it ready to provide a very stable overclocking platform for the 2011-v3 chips.

                                                 

                                                My next board may end up being an EVGA one, but I want to wait and see if they come out with an X299 Classified after sales of their first round of X299 boards slows a bit.  I want 8 DIMM slots, but I also want their Creative on-board DAC.  So neither their X299 Black nor their X299 FTW-K is quite what I'm after.

                                                 

                                                I have found that the Noctua is quieter than the Liquid cooler even at idle, and _way_ quieter when pushing things when the Intel fan used to go crazy.

                                                I can assure you that a custom-built water cooling setup will be quieter than the Noctua cooler, even under full load.  I over-engineer my system's cooling and have every fan on my system spinning at a constant speed.  Fan curves are something I don't even bother with: all Noctua radiator fans on my system (both the slew of 120s and the 8 140s) are spinning at anywhere from 600-700RPMs.  The 4 case fans I have are barely turning: 400RPMs.

                                                 

                                                Literally, the most annoying thing in my system is the RAID0 array of 2 4TB HDDs.  If 4TB SSDs weren't so silly expensive, those HDDs would be gone in a flash, and my system would literally make 0 noise.

                                                 

                                                When rendering, my overclocked 5960X might see 60*C.  Maybe.  More than likely it'll be much lower.

                                                 

                                                If it is not too much hassle, I'd like to use a non sealed system so I can swap out the pump without having to replace the entire cooling system.

                                                While AIOs are nice and all, I'd generally recommend against them unless you're using EK's.  Most of the AIOs are junk, including Intel's.  Ultimately you'll be better suited by learning how to assemble your own loop, using quality parts from the likes of EK and Noctua.

                                                • 21. Re: Any one pre-order the new X299 motherboard with an Intel I9 processor?
                                                  RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                                                  photoshop and lightroom articles from puget are out

                                                  https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Photoshop-CC-2017-1-1-CPU-Comparison-Skylake-X- Kaby-Lake-X-Broadwell-E-Skylak…

                                                  https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Lightroom-CC-2015-10-1-CPU-Comparison-Skylake-X -Kaby-Lake-X-Broadwell-E-Skyla…

                                                   

                                                  nothing too new, the higher clock speeds in the intel 4-core still rule. they do however recommend spending extra to get the x299 platform 4 core i7-7740k for a small performance boost, but i don't think most would spend the extra for the very small gain. puget also makes the case that the x299 platform is worth it for an upgrade path with the 4 core, but anyone buying it for that reason and from puget should just buy the higher core cpu to begin with. otherwise if money is that tight just buy an off-the-shelf pc for a fraction of the price.

                                                   

                                                  the intel skylake-x 8-core vs last gen broadwell-e 8-core shows a 5-13% performance increase in the various benchmarks. which again falls in line with the 10% clock speed increase. the new 6 core runs at 3.5ghz vs the old 40-lane 6 core at 3.6ghz, and as it turns out the new cpu is slightly slower. these results for the new skylake-x cpu's suggest there is basically zero ipc gain for skylake-x. makes me wonder what intel is going to do for future cpu's. they can't keep cranking up the clocks for performance improvements unless they get their power usage and temps under control.

                                                   

                                                  if we go with the idea that ipc gains are basically zero, we can then compare the old broadwell-e 6-core at 3.6ghz vs the new 8-core skylake-x at 3.6ghz to see any benefits for 6 vs 8 cores in adobe software. premiere shows a 24% gain in overall export performance for the extra 2 cores, but appears to have no difference in real-time playback. lightroom shows a 4-15% difference in the overall average for the extra 2 cpu cores. photoshop shows a 1-10% in overall performance, with 8% for the general tasks, for the extra 2 cpu cores. so it looks like the intel 8-core for an extra $200 is a good option for all these apps over the 6-core. for those on a tight budget there is amd ryzen 6-8 cores and perhaps the rumored intel coffee lake 6-core.

                                                  • 22. Re: Any one pre-order the new X299 motherboard with an Intel I9 processor?
                                                    RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                                                    an update video from der8auer on the vrm issue. he did test several psu's and motherboards, so its not that. its high-to-extreme overclocking settings that are pushing too much voltage and throttling the vrm and/or cpu.

                                                    • 23. Re: Any one pre-order the new X299 motherboard with an Intel I9 processor?
                                                      Trevor.Dennis Adobe Community Professional

                                                      RoninEdits  wrote

                                                       

                                                      an update video from der8auer on the vrm issue.

                                                      [snip]

                                                      Impressive.  He really goes into some detail, and qualifies and backs up his previous findings.  I especially liked the comment about the reviewer who claimed to dispute his findings by running uberfast without any overheating issues, but didn't even realise that the CPU was throttling.  Even if you don't intend to radically overclock an i9X, you would still want decent safety margins for the sake of system longevity.  He also made a good point near the end of the video where he shows a board with a much lower power consumption, but has much more efficient heatsink(s) for its VRM.

                                                       

                                                      I learned a wee bit about building as well with the large radiator mounted on the left side case cover, and the 3.5 bays stripped out for maximum airflow.  I still have a few 3.5 HDDs, but I would like to phase out the internals.

                                                      • 24. Re: Any one pre-order the new X299 motherboard with an Intel I9 processor?
                                                        Trevor.Dennis Adobe Community Professional

                                                        Well we have a firm announcement with more details for Ryzen 3 and Threadripper now, and that has muddied the pot for me.  It's also hard to ignore those prices — a $400 saving for the 12/24 core/thread Threadripper 1920X against Intel's i9-7920X, and $999 buys you the 16/32 core/thread Threadripper 1950X.  That's a $700 saving over Intel's i9-7960X.  

                                                         

                                                        AMD Announces Ryzen Threadripper, Challenges Intel With 12C/16C For $799 and $999

                                                         

                                                         

                                                        Clock speeds are lower, but AMD use solder as opposed to Intel's thermal paste, and the huge size of the chip means more heat transfer area, so I'm guessing they might be easier to overclock.  Am I over-simplifying that?

                                                         

                                                        Looking at X399 motherboard features, something like the ASRock Professional Gaming has three M.2 sockets, a U.2 socket, 10 USB 3.0 ports and 2 3.1 USB ports plus 8 SATA.  That's a lot of storage, although I don't know if you can use them all at the same time.  ISTR reading that Threadripper would be having 60 plus lanes, so I am guessing that the answer would be yes.

                                                         

                                                        I haven't seen anything about XC399 VRMs spontaneously combusting either, but I have read about compromises because the huge CPU socket leaves less space on the boards.  The ASRock board has an eight-phase digital CPU VRM — five less than at least one of their X299 boards.

                                                         

                                                        So right now I am definitely leaning towards Threadripper.  I think they are even going to be available before the higher end i9X CPUs, and my money is burning holes in my pocket.

                                                         

                                                         

                                                        http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-threadripper-1920x-1950x-intel,34999.html

                                                        • 25. Re: Any one pre-order the new X299 motherboard with an Intel I9 processor?
                                                          Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

                                                          I am leaning your way Trevor.  But right now I will not do an upgrade.  I will be doing a household move before long.

                                                           

                                                          Did you read the next generation of Xeon, of course it is not designed for workstation applications but the industrial high density servers.  tn the long run we could see some fallout.  The new Platinum 8176 processor with a 3647 pins where the current units have 2011, a price of only $8179 for 28 cores and 56 threads plus direct network connectivity from the CPU and 48 PCIe Gen 3 lanes.

                                                          • 26. Re: Any one pre-order the new X299 motherboard with an Intel I9 processor?
                                                            Trevor.Dennis Adobe Community Professional

                                                            https://forums.adobe.com/people/Bill+Gehrke  wrote

                                                             

                                                            I am leaning your way Trevor.  But right now I will not do an upgrade.  I will be doing a household move before long.

                                                             

                                                            Did you read the next generation of Xeon, of course it is not designed for workstation applications but the industrial high density servers.  tn the long run we could see some fallout.  The new Platinum 8176 processor with a 3647 pins where the current units have 2011, a price of only $8179 for 28 cores and 56 threads plus direct network connectivity from the CPU and 48 PCIe Gen 3 lanes.

                                                            Yes I did see that.  My goodness, that's serious stuff.  Is this the sort of thing that drives the big data centres that Amazon Microsoft and Google own?  I could do with getting one to heat my house up.  It is damn chilly here right now.

                                                             

                                                            Intel Xeon Platinum 8176 Scalable Processor Review - Tom's Hardware

                                                             

                                                            Bill would you still use an NVIDIA GPU in an X399 board?  It sounds like the bitcoin data mining bubble has burst with the value of the bit coins falling, and the difficulty rising, so we might see an end to the GPU shortage.  Plus there are now several GPUs designed specifically for data mining.   I am also thinking how I could spend the money I'd save with a Threadripper system. 2 Tb M.2 Drive?  A dedicated M.2 drive for cache?  No need to worry about needing Intel NVMe SSDs if you wanted to boot from a couple in a raid0 (not that I am thinking that way).  Time to really get to grips with the X399 chipset and features, and start looking seriously at the boards.

                                                            • 27. Re: Any one pre-order the new X299 motherboard with an Intel I9 processor?
                                                              Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

                                                              Trevor.Dennis  wrote

                                                               

                                                              Bill would you still use an NVIDIA GPU in an X399 board?  It sounds like the bitcoin data mining bubble has burst with the value of the bit coins falling, and the difficulty rising, so we might see an end to the GPU shortage.  Plus there are now several GPUs designed specifically for data mining.   I am also thinking how I could spend the money I'd save with a Threadripper system. 2 Tb M.2 Drive?  A dedicated M.2 drive for cache?  No need to worry about needing Intel NVMe SSDs if you wanted to boot from a couple in a raid0 (not that I am thinking that way).  Time to really get to grips with the X399 chipset and features, and start looking seriously at the boards.

                                                              1. Yes I would still use the CUDA GPU's.
                                                              2. My suggestion after testing is to use a SATA III SSD for the OS/Applications and use that M.2 2 TB for your Premiere projects and Media.  If you have projects with a hundred or more clips then Puget's testing shows that it may pay to have a