former graphic designer > antique dealer

[cedarstudio]

I just uploaded a PDF of an InDesign file to a local print/copy place. This file has 24 PSD tifs—I suspect a mix of RGB & CMYK. A few weeks ago I understood that that was okay because for COPYING they would just do a GLOBAL CMYK setting prior to copying. My concern: just read on their site that ALL images have to be CMYK, which I think is accurate if the file is going to be PRINTED. Is this also true for embedded PSD tifs that are only going to be run through a copier? I have old software: CS3/5.0.4 and Adobe Acrobat Pro/9.0.0.

[BobLevine]

That’s not old, it’s ancient and there is no way for us to know what your printer wants or needs.

All I can tell you is that any modern workflow will be based on RGB images in a PDF/X-4 document exported from InDesign.

[rob day]

My concern: just read on their site that ALL images have to be CMYK, which I think is accurate if the file is going to be PRINTED.

You can make the conversion to CMYK via the output panel when you export. The PDF/X-4 standard can be used, but you should know what CMYK profile the printer wants:

[Willi Adelberger]

1. Never embed images to InDesign, File > Place and keep them link.
2. Keep them in RGB with profile.
3. The newspaper should require PDF/X-4 with RGB images. But often they ask for PDF/X-3 in CMYK because they have no clue, so you have export as PDF/X-3 and convert them as they ask for.
4. Never copy and place images to InDesign.

[Migintosh]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Willi+Adelberger  wrote

Never copy and place images to InDesign.

For the OP, I think Willi means don't copy and paste. Placing is what you should do.

[rob day]

The newspaper should require PDF/X-4 with RGB images.

There's no mention of a newspaper and the printer is requesting CMYK

[JR Boulay]

But often they ask for PDF/X-3 in CMYK because they have no clue

A "PDF/X-3 in CMYK" is de facto a PDF/X-1.

[rob day]

A "PDF/X-3 in CMYK" is de facto a PDF/X-1.

At the risk of going OT (the OP never mentioned the printer's PDF/X requirements), I see a difference in the way X-3, and X-1a assign color profiles to page items in an exported PDF, which could have an affect on the output downstream, or what would happen if you placed the PDF back into an InDesign document set to Preserve Embedded Profiles.

X-1a converts all process color to CMYK and leaves it as DeviceCMYK (no profile assignment). The assumption being there is a single, known destination offset press and there's no need for further color management—the CMYK values in the PDF are correct for the intended press.

X-3 exported to CMYK tags everything with an icc profile even native document CMYK colors and RGB colors that have been converted on the export.

Even though there maybe an assumption that X-4 assigns profiles to all objects, it also leaves document CMYK colors as DeviceCMYK.

So here's an RGB InDesign fill and a profiled RGB image exported to X-1a. As expected, both show as DeviceCMYK in AcrobatDC's Object Inspector:

With a PDF/X-3 export, both get the document's profile assigned, US SWOP Coated in this case:

[JR Boulay]

Adobe Acrobat Pro/9.0.0

You should update to 9.5.5

It's free.

[JR Boulay]

Thank you for the clarification.

Even though there maybe an assumption that X-4 assigns profiles to all objects, it also leaves document CMYK colors as DeviceCMYK.

I was not aware of that.

[rob day]

I was not aware of that.

I think the reasoning is that CMYK-to-CMYK conversions rarely improve color and can often cause worse problems like 4-color blacks and grays and contaminated primary colors.

The exception might be when the PDF needs to output to very different conditions like coated vs newsprint. In that case PDF/X-4 has an Output Intent profile, so you would know what the source profile should be for a forced conversion. With Device CMYK it's harder to accidentally make an unwanted conversion at output.