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I remember lots of discussion when this happened, and now it's back... I think the woman's parents are going after the deep pockets, and I also think the railroad company should be found to NOT be liable
Trial to decide if railroad shares blame in movie crew death | Fox News
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so the train people should what... put a sign up to explain thats trains can hurt when you stand in front of them?
of course this is a country where coffee being hot is a problem for people
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I was about to agee that it's wrong to blame the train company for the stupidity of the film crew/company but then I came to one of the last paragraphs. It seems that at least two other trains had past the same place and seen people trespassing though not on the tracks. I think there might be some culpability that the presence of trespassers was't passed on up the chain.
I still think that the vast majority of the responsibility rests with the film people--but at very least the railway needs to review its policies and procedures.
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Well... yes... except when I read the article the previous train crews did not make a report because the people were not on RR property, so they were not trespassing and there was nothing to report
Added... the film crew did not (as far as I know from newspaper reports) know that the DIRECTOR had been refused permission to film on the tracks... the responsibility is his, and he should have gone to prison for FAR longer than only one year!
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Ussnorway wrote
this is a country where coffee being hot is a problem for people
Was that one real? I was going to compare it with the Winnebago cruise control story, but a quick Google told me it was urban myth.
http://wisemanbray.com/outrageous-lawsuit-verdicts-legal-system-lotto-fact-or-urban-myth/
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yes its a real case and 88 is too hot for US people... perhaps thats why tea isn't pop there?
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Yes, McDonalds did indeed lose a lawsuit when a 79 year old woman spilled coffee in her lap while riding in the car. This case became famous as an example of misuse of the legal system.
HOWEVER...
It came out at the trial that McDonalds corporate required franchises to store coffee at 180-190 degrees F. Most other places selling coffee serve it in the 140-160 degree range. At 190 degrees F, the coffee can cause 3rd degree burns in a matter of seconds and that's what happened to the woman in question. She spent a long time in hospital and suffered from numerous painful skin grafts.
It also turned out that this problem had been reported to McDonalds lots of times before and, in every previous case, they negotiated out of court settlements to keep the problem out of the news.
Based on all that, Maccas lost the case and was NOT a frivolous lawsuit.
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if I boil water (100c) in a jug then pore it over my genitals the shop gets sued because the water is too hot and that jug needs a tag warning me not to do that?
do people in the US remove shirts before ironing... nevermind its a rhetorical question
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A very long time ago I had to take a business law class in College
This was long enough ago that I don't remember the results, but two things stuck in my mind
A burglar took a ladder out of a garage and leaned it against the house to climb up to a 2nd floor window... the ladder broke, and the burglar sued the home owner for having a defective ladder that caused his broken leg
A father was playing with his infant son, throwing him up in the air... right into the blades of a spinning ceiling fan... the father sued the fan maker for not having a warning on the fan blades
The point of all that is that in the US anyone can sue anyone else for just about anything
In this case, the family is suing the RR because the movie director who caused the woman to die doesn't have much money
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Serious question:
Do freelance technicians, production companies, etc (basically anyone working on things that could be in any way dangerous) in the USA not carry liability insurance?
I don't know a single freelancer in the UK who doesn't carry several million pounds in liability insurance. If a light or speaker you hung falls and hurts somebody or if somebody tripped over my mic cable, it's covered by insurance. There are actual insurance companies that specialise in liability cover for the entertainment industry--and (from memory) three million pounds cover used to cost me under two hundred pounds.
It was similar with companies except they carried far more insurance.
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This happened over 3 years ago, so my memory of what was reported at the time is hazy, but my "general" recollection is that this was a very low budget production, with a director who had a reputation of ignoring rules
So, my GUESS is that IF there was liability insurance, it wasn't much... when you work in a state with a "mature" entertainment industry (such as California) there are at least some safeguards in place... other states, maybe not so much
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Ussnorway wrote
if I boil water (100c) in a jug then pore it over my genitals the shop gets sued because the water is too hot and that jug needs a tag warning me not to do that?
do people in the US remove shirts before ironing... nevermind its a rhetorical question
As much as we get slammed for frivolous lawsuits, there are cases that have just causes.
Going back to the 1960s, poor or non existent safety labeling could cause problems. Especially with those not sufficiently trained in using hazardous products that could be bought anywhere. Mixing two types of cleaners for example could create poisonous fumes and no ordinary person had any idea.
A famous case involved celebrity pianist Liberace who was touring small venues including a nightclub in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
For some reason he was not able to find a dry cleaner to clean up his wardrobe for an evening engagement. So he bought a large container of dry cleaning fluid (which back then could be found in local stores). It was assumed if you bought it, you already knew the precautions about safe ventilation. This fluid had carbon tetra chloride (later banned) and while the fumes were still strong, Liberace decided to take a nap in his room. He woke feeling sick and had to be rushed to the hospital--acute renal failure. The doctors told him to get his affairs in order. He eventually recovered, won a large lawsuit over it, and from now on, the bottles had the cautionary labeling:
"Flammable and Toxic fumes. Use in a well ventilated area".
This case is not well known because the same day, Nov 22nd 1963, President Kennedy was assassinated.
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When legionnaires disease became a big thing many years ago, my workplace responded by increasing the temperature of the hot water system. Above 60°C (140°F) if memory serves. Every washbasin had a bold red warning label which you ignored at your peril. That was a long way short of MacDonald's coffee temperature though — from what I remember, our 60°C tap water was already too hot to more than sip (carefully) so you'd have to wonder why anyone would sell coffee at over 80°C?
My work tap water didn't stay like that, and I can't remember why. Perhaps they put chlorine or similar in it?
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They probably figured something better than scalding hot wash water. No matter how careful, water splashes.
There used to be a coffee house--Java Hut--that I passed by downtown. Once I tried their coffee and it was much too hot for the paper cups they put it in. I could not hold one long enough to get it to where they kept the cream and sugar. I mentioned it to the manager, but he told me he saw nothing wrong. I just never went back. Even for the possibility of a court settlement, i would never want to deal with chance of getting injuries that could be permanently damaging.
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Trevor.Dennis wrote
you'd have to wonder why anyone would sell coffee at over 80°C?
coffee and tea need heat to work (tea needs 100c) but imo thats not the point. I wasn't there but I'm willing to bet that the reason Mac lost their case was because the cups they used were sub standard and shown to fail repeatedly... hot water in a sturdy cup is not as big an issue.
the side effects are what interest me because now fast food places tend to use two cups at a time and cities all over the world are drowning in non-biodegradable | disposable cups
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Ussnorway wrote
so the train people should what... put a sign up to explain thats trains can hurt when you stand in front of them?
of course this is a country where coffee being hot is a problem for people
As Bob says, that hot coffee thing is not what you think it is. This video is an entertaining explanation of what that whole thing was actually about.
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As for the train people, the one area where they have slight responsibility is that at least two trains passed the trespassing crew before the accident. I'd have thought both drivers should have got on the radio to pass on a warning to the control centre.
As an aside, about 40 years ago when I was still in Canada I worked on a project that needed shots on a track. The rail company was super cooperative about finding us a disused section of track and even gave us use of one of those maintenance "speed buggies" complete with driver, all free of charge.
Sent from my iPhone
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>at least two trains passed the trespassing crew before the accident
Where I live has a shared beach along the Columbia River... with RR tracks on the north side of the field next to the beach
If a train crew called in every time they saw someone NEAR, BUT NOT ON the RR's right of way, there would be many reports every weekend
The article said that the other train crews saw people near, but not on the RR's property... so there was nothing to report
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Well, results are in Jury awards $3.9M to family of film worker killed by train | Fox News
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I did expect that. A company can pay most or all of the damages even if the share little or none of the blame. It's like, "let's not send the next of kin home empty handed." Then I wonder if the award will be whittled down on appeal.
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I don't agree with the jury verdict, but I also expected that "something" would be given to the family
I still think the director should have gone to prison for a LOT longer time
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Definitely agree on the director. That's really callous disregard. I don't know what factors contributed to that sentence.
We had the Ghost Ship Warehouse fire in Oakland last year that killed 36 people at a party there. The owners who had been warned of the numerous safety code violations are looking at 39 years prison time.
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As I remember, the director's wife & partner were also charged, and he worked out a deal that he would be the only one to get jail time
I think his sentence was 3 years, of which he of course only served about 1 year
One person dead and several other's injured all because he didn't think a NO answer, twice, applied to him
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Even though he walks for whatever reason it was, I think that's going to be a dark spot he won't be able to hide when he goes to look for work or tries to direct somewhere else. Basically his career is finished.
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>his career is finished
Well, maybe... being convicted of rape didn't end the career of Roman Polanski