CYMK 0%

[MCsavedmylife]

Hello all,

I've been going around in circles about this and I'm not quite sure what to do.

I'm designing a book cover for IngramSpark, and they require for the files to be exported in CYMK, and PDF/X-1a: 2001. However, each time I do export it, I get a blank file, which lately caused the file to being rejected.

Looking at the Separation preview, all the CYMK colours for all the items (cover art and text) on the cover are at 0%, which I believe is the cause of the problem. Can I change the colours individually? Is there a way to do this and how?!

Thank you so much for any help and advice you can provide.

[Derek Cross]

It may help if you can specify the version of InDesign and OS.

[MCsavedmylife]

The absolute latest version of Indesign (CC) and Windows 10

[Dov Isaacs]

Are you using spot colors for the artwork?

You might better be able to assist us in assisting you if you could post a packaging of the file in question. Otherwise, it would be virtually impossible for us to determine what is going on since there isn't any known generic problem exporting InDesign documents to PDF/X-1a (although, quite frankly, that is a nice but very technically obsolete late 20th century PDF/X standard).

          - Dov

[rob day]

although, quite frankly, that is a nice but very technically obsolete late 20th century PDF/X standard

At 2.3B in revenue, Ingram Group would be one of the largest printers in the country—there must be a reason for the X-1a requirement.

[Dov Isaacs]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/rob+day  wrote

although, quite frankly, that is a nice but very technically obsolete late 20th century PDF/X standard

At 2.3B in revenue, Ingram Group would be one of the largest printers in the country—there must be a reason for the X-1a requirement.

I actually interface with a number of print companies and print associations (both in North America and internationally) on behalf of Adobe.

There are printers who clearly understand modern PDF print publishing workflows and actually prefer PDF/X-4. We recommend you seek out such printers.

Many of the printers who claim they “require” PDF/X-1a actually will gladly take PDF/X-4 if they think you know what you are doing.

Other printers have told me straight out that they want PDF/X-1a with CMYK as handed down from Mt. Sinai and flattened transparency (and perhaps outlined text) because if something goes wrong, they want to blame the customer!  Hmmm, blame the customer when so many printer companies are experiencing continually shrinking revenues and going out of business? Great business strategy! They certainly aren't “print service providers.” It should be noted that many if not most of these “we only want CMYK” printers don't even specify which CMYK profile to convert RGB to — it certainly does make a hell of difference!

And then there are printers who simply are totally ignorant of color management entirely and are stuck in the 1980s and 1990s.

          - Dov

[rob day]

The common thread I'm seeing with PDF/X-1a requests is automation not luddism. Look at the recommendations from Ingram, Vista Print, Moo, and Blurb—four very large and sophisticated printers that seem to run fully automated systems from order to delivery. I'm sure that the tech people at those companies know the difference between X-4 and X-1a, and have no doubt that they are all running state of the art equipment. You are right, I'm not sure any of the four will reject an incoming RGB/PDF/X-4, but it's not their recommendation.

As far as I can tell the only time there is human contact with my file is when I don't get what I expect and complain. PDF/X-4 is fabulous when there is a CSR interfacing with a knowledgeable prepress department, and there are drinks for all after the press run. In that case the CSR can let me know that my copy protected font wasn't embedded or 0|0|255 blue isn't going to workout so well—it's harder to pull that off with an algorithm when your clients might not know a ,docx from a .pdf., never mind color gamuts.

Vista and Moo will happily reprint when there's any hint of dissatisfaction—the cost is built into the automated model—but they wouldn't want to invite rejects. So I think the reason for the X-1a request (or HORROR outlined fonts) is the automated model's reject rate goes down.

[Dov Isaacs]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/rob+day  wrote

The common thread I'm seeing with PDF/X-1a requests is automation not luddism. Look at the recommendations from Ingram, Vista Print, Moo, and Blurb—four very large and sophisticated printers that seem to run fully automated systems from order to delivery. I'm sure that the tech people at those companies know the difference between X-4 and X-1a, and have no doubt that they are all running state of the art equipment. You are right, I'm not sure any of the four will reject an incoming RGB/PDF/X-4, but it's not their recommendation.

As far as I can tell the only time there is human contact with my file is when I don't get what I expect and complain. PDF/X-4 is fabulous when there is a CSR interfacing with a knowledgeable prepress department, and there are drinks for all after the press run. In that case the CSR can let me know that my copy protected font wasn't embedded or 0|0|255 blue isn't going to workout so well—it's harder to pull that off with an algorithm when your clients might not know a ,docx from a .pdf., never mind color gamuts.

Vista and Moo will happily reprint when there's any hint of dissatisfaction—the cost is built into the automated model—but they wouldn't want to invite rejects. So I think the reason for the X-1a request (or HORROR outlined fonts) is the automated model's reject rate goes down.

You'd be surprised what I have encountered in many companies. Many of the so-called “tech people” and/or the CSRs don't know what PDF/X is at all. Too many “printing companies” treat everyone other than the managers and executives as blue collar labor for whom technical knowledge and training (other than following cookie cutter procedures) is unnecessary. Having met some local printers when working on some non-profit volunteer printing work, it is amazing the turnaround in attitude when they see my Adobe e-mail address, my requirement for support for PDF/X-4, and offer to and then do teach them what they need to know (ironically although typically they don't think that their RIPs or DFEs can handle PDF/X-4, color management, and live transparency, in the vast majority of cases, the handle PDF/X-4 much better than PDF/X-1a, which is true by the way for any RIP/DFE based on the Adobe PDF Print Engine).

          - Dov

[rob day]

ironically although typically they don't think that their RIPs or DFEs can handle PDF/X-4, color management, and live transparency, in the vast majority of cases, the handle PDF/X-4 much better than PDF/X-1a, which is true by the way for any RIP/DFE based on the Adobe PDF Print Engine

That PDF/X-4 is a better and more elegant way to handle transparency isn't my point.

VistaPrint is publicly traded on NASDAQ and the stock has tripled in the last 4 years—these are not clueless mom & pop companies. The question I'm asking is what format produces fewer problems downstream in a lower-end fully automated print workflow? X-4 doesn't solve out-of-gamut problems it just delays them, and in a fully automated system the first person to see the color change would be the client when the job is delivered. Again the issue is automation (and price) not quality, so if too many jobs get rejected because X4 allows out-of-gamut color, the X4 format starts to become a weakness and no one will care about the subtleties of transparency handling.

I'm not advocating for X-1a over X4, just pointing out that the modern workflow isn't always the traditional deliver to CSR>Preflight>hardcopy proof>final signoff>pressrun. The relatively new upload-to-a-server>fedex-box is a radical departure from that workflow tradition

[rob day]

Looking at the Separation preview, all the CYMK colours for all the items (cover art and text) on the cover are at 0%, which I believe is the cause of the problem. Can I change the colours individually? Is there a way to do this and how?!

That would only happen if the used colors were spot color, in that case the spot colors would be listed along with the CMYK process colors.

Can you show a screen capture of the Separation panel sampling along with the cover?

[MCsavedmylife]

[Dov Isaacs]

Your screen shot shoots down the theory of spot color use.

All we see on the page is a bar code. Can we assume there is additional content that just isn't showing on the screen when the Separations Preview is on? If Separations Preview is off, do you see other content?

As I indicated earlier, I think we need to see the actual file in order to further assist you.

          - Dov

[MCsavedmylife]

Hello! Yes, when Separation was turned off, I could see everything on the page.

I have had a suggestion since this post, that separating the layers themselves will do the trick. I've done so and so far (fingers) it seems to have done the trick. I shall let you know if this is the case in due course!

[rob day]

Hello! Yes, when Separation was turned off, I could see everything on the page.

Check Layer Options for all of your layers. Make sure Print Layer is checked.

[MCsavedmylife]

Hello!

I've just checked and Print Layer was checked

[rob day]

I think you'll have to share the file as Dov suggested.

[Laubender]

Hm, hm, hm…

would you show a screenshot of your page with all items on the page selected and the Attributes panel open?

Could it be that all objects are set to Non-Printing ?

From my German InDesign. Separation Preview off, non-printing set:

Separations Preview on:

If that's the case I would check the Attributes Panel for the attribute non-printing when:

1. No document is open

Turn off non-printing.

2. If your document is open and nothing is selected:

Turn off non-printing.

Select all and:

Turn off non-printing

Regards,
Uwe

[Jongware]

Or export to pdf with "Export Layers" set to All and the box "Non-printing Objects" checked (it's unchecked by default).

This will defeat both accidentally set non-printing Layers and accidentally assigned non-printing attribute.

This will backfire if you deliberately set certain layers and/or objects to nonprinting! (I do both, to point out problems in documents. As such text is meant for me only, I tend to be ... quite explicit at times ...)

[rob day]

Also check that the Layer Options for all of the layers are all set to Print Layer. When Print Layer is uncheck the layer objects preview with Sep Preview off but are hidden when it is on.

[Dov Isaacs]

Great idea. Although quite frankly one has to do quite a bit of work to turn off the printing in a layer. By default it is on! 

          - Dov