Drive setup on new Premier/Resolve Editing PC

[glenpinn]

Ok, didn't end up getting my Son the new i7-7700k PC that we originally wanted to build, and after being told to look into the new AMD Ryzen chips, we have decided to build the following AMD Ryzen 1700X System instread, and i have already ordered the hardware ready to pick up next week.

Case = Aerocool DS mATX Cube-Orange = $145

PSU = FSP AS-650 FSP AURUM S 650W 80+ GOLD = $109

Mobo = MSI B350M Mortar Arctic AM4 MATX = $135

CPU = Ryzen 1700X = $515

CPU Cooler = Noctua NH-D14 CPU Cooler = $99

Cooler Bracket = Noctua NM-AM4 Mounting Kit = $9

Ram = G.Skill F4-3200C14D-16GFX 16GB 8GB X 2 DDR4 3200 MHZ = $295

Graphics = MSI GTX-1060 Aero 6gb = $449

System/Apps Drive = 256gb Samsung 960 EVO NVMe = $179

TOTAL= $1935 (this Australian $$$)

Ok, i think i will need to get a GTX-1070 8gb GPU rather than the 1060 6gb GPU, according to the expert in the following link, seems like even a GTX-980Ti 6gb performs better than the 1060 card, which i think is a bit odd, but anyway, i need to ask if this will be a good idea.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Adobe-Premiere-Pro-CC-2015-3-Pascal-GPU-Performance-840/

Also the same guy (Matt Bach) says that 16gb of ram is not really enough for Premier, is this correct, because i know people using Premier and they have 16gb with an i7-7700k cpu and a 1080 8gb GPU, and they claim that they have no problems, and the ram i am getting is 3200Mhz, which is the recommended ram for the Ryzen 1700X.

Now to the Drives setup for Premier and Resolve, which is still annoying me, so i will list what drives that i currently own and can use in this PC, along with the intended use for each one.

1. (buying brand new) 256gb Samsung 960 EVO NVMe = OS and Apps

2. already have a 480gb SanDisk Ultra 2 SSD = Project/Media files from camera or other sources

3. already have a 240gb SanDisk Plus SSD = Media Cache and Page files

4. already have a 2tb Seagate 7200 Laptop Hdd = Exports and temp storage

OR i can use 2x 1tb Seagate Laptop Hdd and run Exports to one, and use the other for temp storage.

Backups will be run over to 2x 4tb USB3 Portable drives and over to my server.

I know this setup may not be ideal, but i was told the Export drive does not need to be an SSD, and i was told i can store Media cache and Page files on one single SSD, However i really need to know if 256gb SSD is big enough ?????????

All Drives except the OS Drive will be upgraded in the future, once my Son gets an idea of what his real requirements will be.

Any help will be appreciated.

[RoninEdits]

i'm the one from your previous post that tried talking you into ryzen, glad to see you went that way.

New Editing PC for Premier

gpu - it will depend on how how many and which gpu accelerated fx are being used and how much coloring is being done to determine how much benefit the video card will have. if using a few fx and lite color then a gtx 1060 gb may work fine. overall, i think the gtx 1070 would be a better match for the 8-core ryzen cpu and may benefit resolve more.

ram - 16gb is a good minimum amount to have. ram is mostly used for caching playback frames and more ram can help buffer more frames. some do fine with 16gb, and some find more ram helps playback to be smoother. you have 4 ram slots on that motherboard, so you can start with 16gb and add more if needed.

note: if you are building this computer yourself then you will need to set those speeds in the bios for the memory. the kit of memory you list is specifically tested for ryzen compatibility, but it shouldn't run at those speeds by default. first thing after building the system you should do a bios update, then adjust the memory and any other bios settings as needed.

storage - the super fast nvme pcie m.2 ssd's will largely go to waste as an os/apps drive. once the computer is booted and the software launched, the os drive is mostly idle. using a sata ssd like one of your old sandisk ssd's would be a better option. if the projects are mostly short in length, then using a single 500gb m.2 for cache/projects/media is a decent option. otherwise for longer projects the m.2 drives can become expensive and its often cheaper use multiple sata ssd's, possibly in raid-0. typical index like cache files are very small, but rendered previews can start taking up some space.

some m.2 drive setup options would look like this:

Sandisk 256gb or 480gb SSD - os/apps/pagefile

samsung 960 evo 500gb - database/cache/projects/media/previews

or for large projects

samsung 960 evo 500gb - os/apps/pagefile/database/cache/projects

2x 1tb or larger sata ssd - media/previews

using what you already have could look like this:

Sandisk 256gb SSD - os/apps/pagefile

Sandisk 480gb SSD - database/cache/projects/media/previews

[glenpinn]

Thanks a lot, yes we found a lot of people telling us to go the Ryzen path as well, especially for editing work, and you was indeed correct, so thanks a lot for that push.

Interesting about the drives, the guy building the PC for my son is a very knowledgeable guy and i originally had a 256gb SSD for the OS and Apps, but he told me to spend the extra $30 on the NVMe drive, which to be hones i was not sure why, but i did it anyway, as he built his own 1800X PC recently and also has an NVMe drive for the OS and Apps, maybe i can ask him, or link him to this Thread to read your comments.

I also read Matt Bach's comment about not needing an SSD for Exports, and that a normal Hdd will be fine, and the Source/Project files should be on at least a 500gb SSD.

I also read somewhere to move Page files off the OS drive, and put that elsewhere, like on a 256gb SSD along with the Media Cache ??? so i am a bit confused.

Also, what is a "Scratch Disk" as a lot of people use this term ???

As far as the 1060 6gb GPU goes, my son is the one doing the shooting and editing, i just know that he likes shooting in ProRes 444 HQ i think it is, i have no idea (1080 or 4k, sometimes 4.5k) and i have no idea what his workflow usually consists of once he imports his files, but i am sure he mostly uses Premier for most of his work, and he also does his coloring with Premier as well (i am sure he told me this) but i think he might use Resolve sometimes.

I don't want him ringing me to tell me he is having issues and it turns out to be that 1060 6gb GPU, especially given the poor results in that Pugets Systems link i posted earlier, so i figure i may as well spend the extra $250 and get the 1070 8gb card.

[RoninEdits]

the guy building the PC for my son is a very knowledgeable guy and i originally had a 256gb SSD for the OS and Apps, but he told me to spend the extra $30 on the NVMe drive, which to be hones i was not sure why, but i did it anyway, as he built his own 1800X PC recently and also has an NVMe drive for the OS and Apps....

most applications default their cache and other misc files to the os drive. so it can be simpler to keep them there and avoid changing multiple settings in several programs. using the super fast m.2 drive as the os drive in that situation can sometimes give a small performance boost in some programs to help with running os/apps/cache etc on one drive. the motherboard you picked only supports one superfast m.2 ssd, so you need to be using it in a way to get the most out of that drive, which again is media and cache. those samsung 960's are so fast that its even possible to use one drive for everything, as long as it all fits.

I also read Matt Bach's comment about not needing an SSD for Exports, and that a normal Hdd will be fine, and the Source/Project files should be on at least a 500gb SSD.

exports are typically limited by the cpu and or gpu having to process data. so a dedicated export drive typically isn't needed unless exporting out to very high bitrate formats like picture sequences or uncompressed. in some of those rare situations even a sata ssd isn't enough, but most people don't export to those formats. i'm not sure why he recommended at least a 500gb, other than capacity and possibly for speed. ssd's are typically faster as they increase in size, and 500gb ssd's are usually near the upper speeds.

I also read somewhere to move Page files off the OS drive, and put that elsewhere, like on a 256gb SSD along with the Media Cache ??? so i am a bit confused.

setting up the pagefile on another drive is something carried over from using hdd's and i wouldn't worry about it with an ssd. one of the regulars here, bill, has done some testing and found that os/apps/pagefile/cache on a sata ssd typically has very little impact on performance with premiere.

Also, what is a "Scratch Disk" as a lot of people use this term ???

i think its a broad term and used in different programs for different meanings, but in general i would associate a scratch disk to a cache and/or preview disk. in premiere, the project settings actually has a tab named scratch disks. in that scratch disks tab it lists several locations for multiple functions, including captured video/audio, rendered previews, autosaves, and cc library downloads.

I don't want him ringing me to tell me he is having issues and it turns out to be that 1060 6gb GPU, especially given the poor results in that Pugets Systems link i posted earlier, so i figure i may as well spend the extra $250 and get the 1070 8gb card.

as i mentioned in your other post, its having less than 4gb of ram that could be a major show stopper. so the gtx 1060 gb is ok there as it has 6gb of ram. past that the gtx 1070 will handle more gpu based fx and color grading than the gtx 1060 before realtime playback suffers. if playback performance is bad enough, then rendering previews in premiere or cache in resolve can help, or with denoise fx its often best to disable them till ready to export. the puget article tests show the gtx 1060 performing ok in some results and poor in others, but you also have to remember that its paired with a 10-core intel cpu so the results will differ from the system you are building. if you are fine with spending the extra, i think the gtx 1070 is a good option for your build.

[glenpinn]

Hi again, thanks for all your wonderful help again.

Regarding the 480gb SSD, the guy building the PC didn't tell me to get a 500gb SSD, i already had that drive some time ago, but never used it, so i thought it would be an ideal size for now to use to store his Project Source files on, and Matt Bach also suggested an SSD for those files as well, and the output files (Exports or rendered files from Premier) don't need to go on an SSD,

So based on everything, you recommend a 250gb SSD for OS & Apps and leave the page files there.

Can you suggest the type of drives and their capacity for setting this PC up, in your opinion.

Cheers

[RoninEdits]

i'm a fan of samsung ssd's. they have a reputation for lower failure rates, longer endurance, and faster performance vs most other ssd's on the market. the 850 series are the latest in their sata ssd lineup, and the 960 series are their m.2 lineup. capacity depends on the project and media. some projects will fit on a single 128gb ssd, and some projects need 10's of terabytes to hold all the media. typically 500gb-1tb is enough for most projects people do on these forums, but you might check with your son to see if he knows how much space his projects might take up.

the drive setup examples i would give would mostly match what i listed above. it depends if you are going to keep the 256gb samsung 960 m.2 or could return it or exchange it for something else. if you are going to keep the 256gb samsung m.2 as the os/apps drive, then you could use your sandisk 480gb ssd for media/previews. if you are going to return the samsung m.2, then you could use your sandisk ssd's like example #3 above, or get a larger samsung m.2 and go with example #1 above for possibly slightly better performance.

[glenpinn]

Hi, i so appreciate your help again, the PC parts are on order at a local PC store where my Son lives (Melbourne Australia) and the guy building the PC will pick them up and build it at his place, test it for a few days to make sure it is running properly, then deliver it to my Son, and show him how it is set up, as my son knows nothing about computers and hardware, but he also doesn't really understand the complexity of Premier and Resolve and their requirements, as he was using them in his iMac (i5 CPU) and currently has a Dell M4000 Workstation laptop, which is very powerful, with an i7 CPU, 16gb ram, and Quadro card in it, but it only has a 256gb SSD in it, and he exports to a 2tb usb3 portable drive and it gets bogged down a lot, and Premier recently refused to open for him, so he had to update the graphics drivers on the Dell website (auto detect) and after that, Premier decided to open again, so they must have done some updates, and the laptop needed to update the drivers for it.

I like Samsung as well, but i already have the 480gb Sandisk, so i want to use that for now for storing his Project/Media files on (source files) and i will check with my son every now and then to see if that capacity is ok, which i think it will be based on what i know already, and others, including Matt Bach seem to suggest that Media/Project files are stored on an SSD, and just a normal platter Hdd is ok for Exports, and i already have several 2tb laptop drives so he can use one of those.

I can change the NVMe to a 256gb Samsung EVO SSD and save $50, and leave the Page files there like you suggested.

As far as the 256gb SanDisk plus SSD for that i was getting for the Media cache and Page files, i only did this because i also read in an article that if you can spare the money, having Page files and Media Cache on a dedicated SSD would be a good idea, and it seems logical to me as well, but if we leave page files on the OS/Apps SSD, i have no idea what size the Media cache files would be, i just read that a 256gb SSD would be fine.

Sorry for being such a noob, i just know how to build computers, and i am a windows expert as well, but one thing my son needs to do is to find someone who can teach him about Premier and Resolve p[roperly, and show him how to set his workflows up on his new PC, but i have saved many youtube videos and very interesting articles for him to read.

Cheers.

By the way, i live 1.5 hours by plane from my son, he is in Melbourne, and i live in Tasmania, so i can't do any of this stuff for him, so i need to have this other friend of mine help my son out on this new PC.

[glenpinn]

Hi, if i use a 250gb SSD or the 256gb NVMe drive for the OS/Apps/Page files, could that also be used to store the premier and/or resolve Media cache on as well, if so, that may save me from using a dedicated 250gb SSD just for the Media Cache ???

Cheers

[RoninEdits]

cache files are pretty small, so they should fit on the os drive too as long as its not full from other things like installed programs or misc storage. if you add one of your old laptop drives for misc storage it shouldn't be a problem. if you keep the nvme drive then i would recommend using it for the cache, otherwise if you use the sandisk 256gb or a samsung 850 for the os drive it might be slightly better to place the cache on the 480gb sandisk ssd with the projects and media. you could also go with a samsung 850 for os/apps, sandisk 256gb for cache, and sandisk 480gb for media.

[glenpinn]

Hi, i am going to keep the 256gb NVMe drive, and it should be ample, but i forgot about his Games, around 6 in total, so i need to allow at least 60gb for those, and say 40gb for Windows 10, Premier, Resolve, so he would have around 120gb free i think, and that drive will not have any other miscellaneous junk or any of his files stored on it, because i will get him to create an image of that drive as soon as he has installed Windows and set it up with updates, then i will get him to create an incremental backup every other week or so, so he has an updated image to fall back on if he needs to at any time (Hdd failure etc) or he can re-image from the fresh installation image.

I think we can settle on the following drives setup.

1. 256gb NVMe for OS + Apps + Games installs + Page Files + Media Cache

2. 480gb SanDisk Ultra 2 for his Source files storage + Previews

3. 1x 2tb Seagate Laptop Hdd for Exports and temp storage (personal files/photos etc)

If he cannot Export his output files from Premier or Resolve to the 2tb laptop Hdd, i will get him a another 480/500gb SSD for those.

Got to finalize the Cart tonight so i can get it ordered for late week pickup, because Chris will build the PC next weekend hopefully, so the list of hardware in my opening post above will be what i will be buying, anything else i already have, except another 480/500gb SSD for Exports if he needs to get one.

Finally, you mentioned one time that if you had a big enough NVMe card in the PC (lets say a 1tb Samsung 960 EVO ($650au) or a 1tb Samsung 960 Pro ($850au) that you could possibly put everything on that drive, with no other drives connected, except maybe a 2 to 4tb 3.5" Hdd for other non critical internal storage.

If this was the case, and because i still believe the OS/Apps should always be on a dedicated drive to everything else (and easier to create a System backup) would it make sense to get to get a motherboard that supports an M.2 + an NVMe card, and put the OS/Apps/Page files on a 256gb M.2 and everything else on a 1tb NVMe drive, and maybe a 2 to 4tb Hdd just for storage.

Cheers.

[glenpinn]

EDIT - July 20

PC has been built already, and drives are being setup today ready for delivery to my Son, who is very excited about using it.

This is my final PC Parts list, ordered and picked up today ready to build, and i will return later on to report on how the build went, as well as how it performs with Premier and Resolve.

Case = Aerocool DS mATX Cube-Orange = $145

PSU = SilverStone Strider Gold 650W ST65F-G modular  = $125

Mobo = MSI B350M Mortar Arctic AM4 MATX = $135

CPU = Ryzen 1700X = $509

CPU Cooler = Noctua NH-D15-SE CPU Cooler = $125

Ram = G.Skill F4-3200C14D-16GFX 16GB 8GB X 2 DDR4 3200 MHZ = $299

Graphics = MSI GTX-1060 OC 6gb = $489

NVMe = 1x 256gb Samsung 960 EVO NVMe = $189 (OS + Apps + Games + Media Cache)

SSD = 1x 480gb SanDisk Plus = $199 (Premier/Resolve Exports drive)

TOTAL= $2199

existing 1x existing 480gb Sandisk Ultra 2 SSD (imported Project/Media Files storage + Previews)

existing 1x existing 2tb Seagate Laptop Hdd (for General Storage)

Thanks for all the wonderful help offered by RoninEdits, very much appreciated.

[jdgallons]

Very well priced build!  How does 4K editing in premier pro cc perform?

[glenpinn]

I should have come back to reveal the results of our labor with this build.

To those who want a very budget friendly PC that handles Adobe Premier and DaVinci Resolve, this is about as good as it gets, and the decision to go with the new AMD Ryzen 1700X CPU was a good move, as it can be easily overclocked to match the 1800X or more, but in terms of output times, there really is no need to pay the extra for the 1800X.

If i was to change anything, i would have got a GTX-1070 8gb graphics card, which i believe Resolve may handle better, but my Son does not use Resolve much at the moment as he likes doing all his editing with Premier, as well as minor color grading when needed.

I am his Dad, i just arranged the new PC for him, and i don't use Premier myself so i don't really know what Premier can and can't do, but my Son is very very happy with it, and is currently looking into the new 2.5k Benq screen that he was recommended.

BTW the total cost mentioned in my previous post is Aussie $$$$$ not US $$$

Cheers